I think if the prices continue to drop there will be less Mercanti sets available on ebay by next week. Dealers will hold for now.. as they won't see any profit if this continues. Some would continue to sell a few and stop when they covered all their fees. Then sell again when prices go up.
They are probably being discounted because of possibly perceived quality issues
I just got first bulk-graded 2011-P PCGS PR70 Rev PR in my hands - it has more frost breaks than any of my 5 individually graded PR69 s without even going through 10x magnification
<< <i>They are probably being discounted because of possibly perceived quality issues
I just got first bulk-graded 2011-P PCGS PR70 Rev PR in my hands - it has more frost breaks than any of my 5 individually graded PR69 s without even going through 10x magnification >>
Coins101 - You are certainly on the "do business with" list!!
I just noticed that you asked me a series of questions yesterday and I was not ready to answer all of them. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
I will send you a PM in the next 30 minutes
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Can't believe you can get them for $1,250... Just took the money I could spare and bought one yesterday...definitely wasn't $1,250 Ugh, these stupid things.
I'm also apparently on the list, sent a PM weeks ago regarding this coin and never got a reply....eventually somebody bought it. Seller would have sold for $825 btw.
Casman: Hi. We have had a grand total of -3- PM exchanges in the past 4 years. Your last one back in October invited me to review a coin on ebay to see if I had any interest in it (being sold by your next door neighbor). I did take a look but did not have an interest. My last PM to you responded to a question you had regarding the value of a spouse coin. I gave you a figure and I never heard back from you. Judging from our grand total of 3 exchanges spanning 4 years, I would say neither one of us was particularly more or less responsive than the other. I took no offense when you did not respond to me and I meant none to you when I went to ebay to check out your neighbor's coin but elected not to bid on it. I hope to do some business with you in the future.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>They are probably being discounted because of possibly perceived quality issues
I just got first bulk-graded 2011-P PCGS PR70 Rev PR in my hands - it has more frost breaks than any of my 5 individually graded PR69 s without even going through 10x magnification >>
<< <i>Can't believe you can get them for $1,250... Just took the money I could spare and bought one yesterday...definitely wasn't $1,250 Ugh, these stupid things. >>
Comma, I tried explaining this yesterday. You told me to think again.
I bought one Mercanti set for $2150 and sold one of my 30 sets a few weeks back for $1k-about a $550 profit after the initial cost of the set, shipping at $45 Registered-ouch) and ebay and paypal fees. So this Mercanti set costs me about $1650. Worse case scenario is about 150 ounces of bullion bought at double spot and Silver takes a dive.
<< <i><<< The Mercanti lables are a white elephant. Far from adding a premium to this issue, the market's discounting them. If you look on eBay, there appears to be a glut of them available, whereas most of the flag sets are still being graded. >>>
They are probably being discounted because of possibly perceived quality issues. These were the sets that mostly were sent in from dealers early on when they were grading 70's at a very high rate. >>
I've discounted them. I wanted one pretty bad in the beginning and now I don't even care to own one. If I ever do decide to buy one it will only be if I have the chance to inspect the set in person first. I will never buy one online. I may buy a flag label set before the relabel game begins converting 65% MS 70 rate Mercanti's to flag labels.
<< <i>They are probably being discounted because of possibly perceived quality issues
I just got first bulk-graded 2011-P PCGS PR70 Rev PR in my hands - it has more frost breaks than any of my 5 individually graded PR69 s without even going through 10x magnification >>
<< <i>They are probably being discounted because of possibly perceived quality issues
I just got first bulk-graded 2011-P PCGS PR70 Rev PR in my hands - it has more frost breaks than any of my 5 individually graded PR69 s without even going through 10x magnification >>
OUCH! >>
A 70 should be without these blemishes. Double >>
I agree. Personally, I wouldn't buy an MS70 or PR70 sight-unseen. I've seen a few of them that aren't really 70s in my opinion and that is unacceptable to me.
Another factor is that most sellers of these MS70s and PR70s are selling w/ no return policy. I believe that may impact the final price as much as the label type. I noticed that I'm in the minority of sellers of these coins who offers a return policy. If I was buying a coin listed as a 70, I'd want to see it in hand first before the deal was done... I just wouldn't feel right about sticking a buyer with a coin they didn't feel was accurately graded.
<< <i>They are probably being discounted because of possibly perceived quality issues
I just got first bulk-graded 2011-P PCGS PR70 Rev PR in my hands - it has more frost breaks than any of my 5 individually graded PR69 s without even going through 10x magnification >>
OUCH! >>
A 70 should be without these blemishes. Double >>
I agree. Personally, I wouldn't buy an MS70 or PR70 sight-unseen. I've seen a few of them that aren't really 70s in my opinion and that is unacceptable to me.
Another factor is that most sellers of these MS70s and PR70s are selling w/ no return policy. I believe that may impact the final price as much as the label type. I noticed that I'm in the minority of sellers of these coins who offers a return policy. If I was buying a coin listed as a 70, I'd want to see it in hand first before the deal was done... I just wouldn't feel right about sticking a buyer with a coin they didn't feel was accurately graded. >>
A return policy will add value to the set but there is flip side. Many MS 70 sets are going on Ebay for $700-$900 less today than 1 week ago. Considering many of those winning bidders are just taking or have just taken delivery, many may use the return policy on a perfectly good set just to buy another set post price crash. Could be the start of a vicious cycle of over supply.
<< <i> A return policy will add value to the set but there is flip side. Many MS 70 sets are going on Ebay for $700-$900 less today than 1 week ago. Considering many of those winning bidders are just taking or have just taken delivery, many may use the return policy on a perfectly good set just to buy another set post price crash. Could be the start of a vicious cycle of over supply. >>
I did think of that before offering returns. So I opted for a 3-day return instead of a 7-day or longer. But still, even in 3 days a lot can change in this market. But knowing I'm in each of my graded sets at under $400/set, I'm willing to take the risk of someone abusing my return policy to make sure I don't stick someone with something they aren't happy with.
Also, even if you offer no return policy, doesn't eBay/PayPal make sellers take returns if the buyer opens a dispute? Not really sure on that since I don't sell on eBay often enough and that may be getting off topic on this thread anyways.
To get more on topic, I went to the Ontario coin show on Thursday and saw dealers buying uncertified unsealed sets for around $600-$700. And they seemed to be selling for around $750-$1000. Some buyers were picky and inspected the coins and would reject anything that didn't look like a 70 to them, others didn't seem to care about the grades of the coins.
I also went to a local coin club meeting on Thursday night and brought a 25th anniversary set in OGP for show and tell. Probably 75% of the members had never even heard of the set and never even knew the Mint had it for sale. Many of them are older collectors who don't use the Internet (we can't even email the monthly club newsletter to many of them and have to send it by U.S. Mail). But after seeing the coins in person, several of them wanted to know how much they were and where they could buy them. Even had a few of them offering to buy my set that I brought along! This was similar to the experience I had when I brought a set of 2010 5oz. ATB quarters for show and tell last year...
Accordingly, even though demand for these sets seems pretty high right now, I think it may even grow stronger over time as the collectors who aren't on the Internet every day (or at all) start to get wind of the set and actually see them in person.
<< <i> A return policy will add value to the set but there is flip side. Many MS 70 sets are going on Ebay for $700-$900 less today than 1 week ago. Considering many of those winning bidders are just taking or have just taken delivery, many may use the return policy on a perfectly good set just to buy another set post price crash. Could be the start of a vicious cycle of over supply. >>
I did think of that before offering returns. So I opted for a 3-day return instead of a 7-day or longer. But still, even in 3 days a lot can change in this market. But knowing I'm in each of my graded sets at under $400/set, I'm willing to take the risk of someone abusing my return policy to make sure I don't stick someone with something they aren't happy with.
Also, even if you offer no return policy, doesn't eBay/PayPal make sellers take returns if the buyer opens a dispute? Not really sure on that since I don't sell on eBay often enough and that may be getting off topic on this thread anyways.
To get more on topic, I went to the Ontario coin show on Thursday and saw dealers buying uncertified unsealed sets for around $600-$700. And they seemed to be selling for around $750-$1000. Some buyers were picky and inspected the coins and would reject anything that didn't look like a 70 to them, others didn't seem to care about the grades of the coins.
I also went to a local coin club meeting on Thursday night and brought a 25th anniversary set in OGP for show and tell. Probably 75% of the members had never even heard of the set and never even knew the Mint had it for sale. Many of them are older collectors who don't use the Internet (we can't even email the monthly club newsletter to many of them and have to send it by U.S. Mail). But after seeing the coins in person, several of them wanted to know how much they were and where they could buy them. Even had a few of them offering to buy my set that I brought along! This was similar to the experience I had when I brought a set of 2010 5oz. ATB quarters for show and tell last year...
Accordingly, even though demand for these sets seems pretty high right now, I think it may even grow stronger over time as the collectors who aren't on the Internet every day (or at all) start to get wind of the set and actually see them in person. >>
Very sound reasoning as to the return policy and I would be doing exactly the same if selling any, mine are still being graded and will not be for sale anytime soon. As for the belief that interest in still in it's infancy on this set, I also agree. Most people who would be interested in these coins don't even know they exist yet.
"Another factor is that most sellers of these MS70s and PR70s are selling w/ no return policy. I believe that may impact the final price as much as the label type. I noticed that I'm in the minority of sellers of these coins who offers a return policy. If I was buying a coin listed as a 70, I'd want to see it in hand first before the deal was done... I just wouldn't feel right about sticking a buyer with a coin they didn't feel was accurately graded."
I think the reason you're seeing more and more no return auctions has little to do with sellers not wanting to stand behind their merchandise and more to do with buyers expecting to be able to return an item that declines in market value from the time they bought it until the time they get it. Unprofessional buyers don't get the fact that coins and especially hot new items are extemely volatile and prices are fluid. Some get it but still know as an ebay buyer they are in the driver's seat to pretty much be able to return anything even if it is no return. Hence, many expect the seller to absorb any decline in value if it is within what they consider to be a reasonable time period. My answer to that is, I'll bet you'd think I was crazy if I called you up a week after I sold you something wanting the difference in value on an item that went up in value....
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
The next wave we'll see is the onslaught of single ASE's in First Strike Flag labels in MS 70 going for inflated prices. The plain old 2011 bullion peices are already going for > $250 in MS70 FS PCGS Flag holders.
The Pop reports don't show the true "condition rarity" of this coin in these labels. Smart ebayers are selling the MS 70 FS FLAG bullion peices now as people like me are scrambling to try and put together a full set of 70's.
IMHO that coin should have a value of no more than $90 or so as it is the same as millions of others except for the label. I'm looking for this coin to come down in price significantly once this consolidation is over.
As for the entire set.... I expect the prices of both 69 and 70 sets to rise significantly in the next few months.
<< <i>The next wave we'll see is the onslaught of single ASE's in First Strike Flag labels in MS 70 going for inflated prices. The plain old 2011 bullion peices are already going for > $250 in MS70 FS PCGS Flag holders.
The Pop reports don't show the true "condition rarity" of this coin in these labels. Smart ebayers are selling the MS 70 FS FLAG bullion peices now as people like me are scrambling to try and put together a full set of 70's.
IMHO that coin should have a value of no more than $90 or so as it is the same as millions of others except for the label. I'm looking for this coin to come down in price significantly once this consolidation is over.
As for the entire set.... I expect the prices of both 69 and 70 sets to rise significantly in the next few months. >>
If there are 100,000 of these I will be surprised. I have 10 rolls of 2011 ASE, 5 from SF. And none of them look "burnished". The 2011 25th Anniv NMM eagle's have a distinct horizontal hash mark, and look burnished.
<< <i>They are probably being discounted because of possibly perceived quality issues
I just got first bulk-graded 2011-P PCGS PR70 Rev PR in my hands - it has more frost breaks than any of my 5 individually graded PR69 s without even going through 10x magnification >>
OUCH! >>
A 70 should be without these blemishes. Double >>
I agree. Personally, I wouldn't buy an MS70 or PR70 sight-unseen. I've seen a few of them that aren't really 70s in my opinion and that is unacceptable to me.
Another factor is that most sellers of these MS70s and PR70s are selling w/ no return policy. I believe that may impact the final price as much as the label type. I noticed that I'm in the minority of sellers of these coins who offers a return policy. If I was buying a coin listed as a 70, I'd want to see it in hand first before the deal was done... I just wouldn't feel right about sticking a buyer with a coin they didn't feel was accurately graded. >>
But,, If it's graded a 70 by PCGS, how could it not be a 70,,?????? ,, Hmmmmmm.... they are suppose to be the worlds best,, without any mistakes or flaws,, also, is any of these Cacked yet>??????... are'nt they suppose to be better than PCGS>?????,, How could any modern coin not be graded a 70,/??. I've seen modern PCGS coins with nicks and skid marks graded 69's... but you never see an old coin with simiilar nicks and skid marks graded that high,, why is that,???????????
Buying MS70/PF70 moderns when they are first introduced is a gamble. I personally have taken several losses on buying too early. I have also done extremely well on buying issues myself and self grading rather than buying 70s on the market. Good example is the 2009 UHR. A bad example for me was the 2006 Gold Reverse Proof. I took a 3K loss on a 70. It seems in the past few years, because of the flippers, new moderns have become extremely volatile. This will not change anytime soon until the flippers really get burned on new issues. As you are witnessing, it is the buyers now who have the advantage over the flippers on the 25th Anniversary Sets. Good for them. However, I think, this a short window for buying these sets. I will always be a die hard modern collector. I dabbled in the classics, but sold most of them in the past few years.
But, also a great example of buying moderns early and winning. I sold many of them around $1,700 - $2,000/coin two years ago (MS70FS). Two years later ... $4,500 - $5,000/coin! A customer who bought a slabbed 70FS UHR early from me a couple years ago recently called back 2 years later earlier this month to buy (2) 25th sets in 70FS (these at $1,600/set at the time). Let's see (2) years from now how those turned out for him.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Exactly, Its a two way street up or down for moderns. Though, the UHR may be a 5k now, but how about in a few years? I see a potentially down side from $5K, but that's me. I have bought modern 70s in the $5K price range before, but never again. I have a self made UHR PCGS MS 70. Right now I have an initial $900 in this coin after I sold my second one for a $500 profit. No way would I personally buy this UHR for $5K. I did sell my second UHR way too early though.
pr70collector ... if you feel that way, then why not trade your 70FS UHR for the $900++ cash you have in the coin and -2- free sets of 70 Mercanti as your profit right now?
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Looks like NGC has graded almost 16,000 of these sets. Add that to PCGS 's 6,000 and we have about 22,000 graded sets. Take into account NGC and PCGS's backlog, raw sets, and other graders, and who wants to guess how many sealed sets are left to be graded?
<< <i>A bad example for me was the 2006 Gold Reverse Proof. I took a 3K loss on a 70. >>
pf70collector That statement does not compute, since the Mint price was $800. How could you have possibly taken a $3k hit, unless you purchased it on the secondary market for $6k. If so, it's you own fault for overpaying. The FS PCGS 70's rev. are selling for $3k+ (250% gain in 5 years)
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
Picked up another Flag FS 69 set off the bay for $677 yesterday. I think that is the lowest I have seen for a pickup. Anyone seen a lower price for same label set?
just checked ebay and 2 sealed boxes of 5 sold for $3200 and change about $650 a set sealed and opened single sets are going for slightly more. Time to open your boxes?
<< <i>just checked ebay and 2 sealed boxes of 5 sold for $3200 and change about $650 a set sealed and opened single sets are going for slightly more. Time to open your boxes? >>
I'd say no for several reasons:
1) After auction or BIN fees for 5 sales, you'd probably be worse off than with the fees for one large sale.
2) Last I saw (yesterday) our very own WonderCoins was offering $640 for sealed sets = $3,200 per box of 5 with no PayPal or Ebay fees.
3) Conjecture on my part, but it seems the flood might be receeding somewhat. I've been watching the total items listed for a couple of search terms: "25 anniversary eagle" and "25 anniversary eagle set pcgs 70". The former peaked at over 2,200 late last week and is now at 2,111. The latter was almost 200 late last week and is now at 143. While far from an exact science, it's the first time I've seen several days of declines in listing numbers since Ebay started stomping on the pre-sales.
4) NGC's "Early Release" deadline was last Thursday, so apart from those sets which have yet to be graded by them, there will be no more forthcoming. PCGS's "First Strike" deadline also passed which means sealed boxes are the only new submissions that can qualify for both First Strike and 25th Anniversary Set labels in full (for those who care).
There are no guarantees, and I could be dead wrong, but with fewer sets on sale and sealed boxes being the only way to get all the "desirable" designations on a label, it seems like about the worst time to break open sealed boxes.
What this probably means is that you should open them now before they head below $3,000 LOL
It seems we may have hit the bottom ($1300 to $1500 range) for signature sets. Most are selling for around $1400 with a few flyers lower and higher. It does seem there are less sets and more singles being listed. Could the sets being drying up or being held by strong hands?
<< <i>just checked ebay and 2 sealed boxes of 5 sold for $3200 and change about $650 a set sealed and opened single sets are going for slightly more. Time to open your boxes? >>
Only if you intend to sell over the next week or so. Otherwise people should sit on their sealed boxes and wait for the premiums to rise as fewer remain sealed. There are already significantly fewer sealed boxes on the 'bay (not that they're rare though) than there were just a couple weeks ago and it only makes sense that their numbers will continue to decline. IMO folks who wisely buy the two keys in any grade, sets in pcgs 70, and sealed boxes at these levels are going to win big sometime in the next year or two.
<< <i>just checked ebay and 2 sealed boxes of 5 sold for $3200 and change about $650 a set sealed and opened single sets are going for slightly more. Time to open your boxes? >>
Only if you intend to sell over the next week or so. Otherwise people should sit on their sealed boxes and wait for the premiums to rise as fewer remain sealed. There are already significantly fewer sealed boxes on the 'bay (not that they're rare though) than there were just a couple weeks ago and it only makes sense that their numbers will continue to decline. IMO folks who wisely buy the two keys in any grade, sets in pcgs 70, and sealed boxes at these levels are going to win big sometime in the next year or two. >>
Here's my problem with sealed boxes, suppose they hit $6000 or $7000 in the next year, now I go to sell on ebay and $7000 is in my paypal account. Now john collector schmo in Texas gets my sealed box of 5 sets and emails me, "hi, I got the box today, but there is a big problem here, I opened the box and there were a bunch of us mint quarter rolls in there, I know you probably didn't do this on purpose and I'm sure it was an honest mistake at the shipping warehouse, but I'm out $6000 now and I can't afford to lose $6000, so how do yuo want to resolve this, do you want to refund my $6000 in full or do we need to start a paypal dispute? " This is the problem, no you don't know for sure if this guy is lying or not, yes honest shipping errors do happen, but if a scenario like this did happen, you could very well lose $6000 by someone trying to scam you with a made up story. There is about a less than a 1% chance that if this scenario did come about that there really was a shipping error with the wrong items inside, but paypal doesn't know this and I just think sealed boxes give scam opportunists a big bullsye to go after because the seller without opening the box would never know if the scammer is lying or not. Yes, it is possible that there could be a legitimate shipping error, but extremely unlikely, but again the scammer is in the driver's seat because the paypal rep would be saying to themselves, "well the seller never did open the box, so yes it is possible the mint screwed up and sent the wrong items, so I do have to side with the buyers and refund his $7000.
I'm sorry, but i just don't have the risk tolerance on giveing a scammer a free lunch which is why I don't want to sit on my sealed box of 5 because if they did go up significantly from here you just become more worried the higher the price goes on getting taken. Yes, if it were one sealed box for $800 I could careless aboutt the risk of a scammer taken me to the cleaners, but if you start talking $6000 or $7000 then that is a different story.
Also, with ngc dishing out 70's left and right I just don't see the gambling risk of buying a sealed box in going for a 70 set. Yes, if 70's were only 10% of the pop and selling for $4000 then I could see gamblers wanting to buy a sealed box and going for that 70 set. They would say to themselves, that with 70's being so high in price there is no way any open set being sold on ebay hasn't been cherrypicked, so my only hope of getting a 70 set is from a sealed box. Once again, with 70's being so abundant there is no thrill in going after a sealed box to get a 70 set. I collect baseball cards and unopened boxes and cases from the 70's and prior is golden and you would think an unopened box of 2011 anniversary sets would be golden also, but I just don't see it happening even though I would like it to. You have nothing to lose by keeping an unopened box because you can always open it and sell the sets, but you can never do the opposite which is take an opened box and reseal it.
Comments
<< <i>You're definitely off on one sale estimate. Today, I just sold TO APMEX 3 PCGS69 FS Flag label sets for $2400 or $800/set. >>
Hum, and APMEX is selling them for $1495 ($1539.85 CC)
70' are $2195 ($2260.85 CC) and these are the black label sets
<< <i>
<< <i>You're definitely off on one sale estimate. Today, I just sold TO APMEX 3 PCGS69 FS Flag label sets for $2400 or $800/set. >>
Hum, and APMEX is selling them for $1495 ($1539.85 CC)
70' are $2195 ($2260.85 CC) and these are the black label sets >>
Competitive pricing huh?
Wondercoin just listed 2 sets for Auction (No Reserve).... I hope it ends good.
Link to eBay listing
Dealers will hold for now.. as they won't see any profit if this continues. Some would continue to sell a
few and stop when they covered all their fees. Then sell again when prices go up.
I just got first bulk-graded 2011-P PCGS PR70 Rev PR in my hands - it has more frost breaks than any of my 5 individually graded PR69 s without even going through 10x magnification
<< <i>They are probably being discounted because of possibly perceived quality issues
I just got first bulk-graded 2011-P PCGS PR70 Rev PR in my hands - it has more frost breaks than any of my 5 individually graded PR69 s without even going through 10x magnification >>
Uh huh........told ya
Box of 20
<< <i>Wondercoin just listed 2 sets for Auction (No Reserve).... I hope it ends good.
Link to eBay listing >>
Did anyone get any prices from him on the BST Forum? I PM'ed him but he didn't reply. Maybe I am on his black list.
<< <i>Dealers will hold if they can afford to. Some might not want to be bothered holding these long term. >>
But they are not going to sell if the price is not in their favor. They need to profit to stay in business.
I just noticed that you asked me a series of questions yesterday and I was not ready to answer all of them. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
I will send you a PM in the next 30 minutes
Wondercoin
Thanks
Edit: Really, I didn't "relied"
Just took the money I could spare and bought one yesterday...definitely wasn't $1,250
Ugh, these stupid things.
Sending you a PM back to your PM to me
Wondercoin
link
Wondercoin
<< <i>They are probably being discounted because of possibly perceived quality issues
I just got first bulk-graded 2011-P PCGS PR70 Rev PR in my hands - it has more frost breaks than any of my 5 individually graded PR69 s without even going through 10x magnification >>
OUCH!
KP
<< <i>Can't believe you can get them for $1,250...
Just took the money I could spare and bought one yesterday...definitely wasn't $1,250
Ugh, these stupid things. >>
Comma, I tried explaining this yesterday. You told me to think again.
Box of 20
<< <i><<< The Mercanti lables are a white elephant. Far from adding a premium to this issue, the market's discounting them. If you look on eBay, there appears to be a glut of them available, whereas most of the flag sets are still being graded. >>>
They are probably being discounted because of possibly perceived quality issues. These were the sets that mostly were sent in from dealers early on when they were grading 70's at a very high rate. >>
I've discounted them. I wanted one pretty bad in the beginning and now I don't even care to own one. If I ever do decide to buy one it will only be if I have the chance to inspect the set in person first. I will never buy one online.
KP>>>>>>>>
I saw it when it was listed, It had a BIN of only $1525 with the option to bid. I'm sure the sellers happy.
<< <i>
<< <i>They are probably being discounted because of possibly perceived quality issues
I just got first bulk-graded 2011-P PCGS PR70 Rev PR in my hands - it has more frost breaks than any of my 5 individually graded PR69 s without even going through 10x magnification >>
OUCH!
A 70 should be without these blemishes. Double
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
http://www.ebay.com/itm/370567368775?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2011-PCGS-First-Strike-MS70-Silver-Eagle-25th-Anniversary-Set-FREE-SHIPPING-/320811396072?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab1d96be8
people keep buying them for 178-210 from this seller not realizing.
Edited to add-
messaged seller and they corrected listing, hope they notify prevoius buyers and let them cancel
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>They are probably being discounted because of possibly perceived quality issues
I just got first bulk-graded 2011-P PCGS PR70 Rev PR in my hands - it has more frost breaks than any of my 5 individually graded PR69 s without even going through 10x magnification >>
OUCH!
A 70 should be without these blemishes. Double
I agree. Personally, I wouldn't buy an MS70 or PR70 sight-unseen. I've seen a few of them that aren't really 70s in my opinion and that is unacceptable to me.
Another factor is that most sellers of these MS70s and PR70s are selling w/ no return policy. I believe that may impact the final price as much as the label type. I noticed that I'm in the minority of sellers of these coins who offers a return policy. If I was buying a coin listed as a 70, I'd want to see it in hand first before the deal was done... I just wouldn't feel right about sticking a buyer with a coin they didn't feel was accurately graded.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>They are probably being discounted because of possibly perceived quality issues
I just got first bulk-graded 2011-P PCGS PR70 Rev PR in my hands - it has more frost breaks than any of my 5 individually graded PR69 s without even going through 10x magnification >>
OUCH!
A 70 should be without these blemishes. Double
I agree. Personally, I wouldn't buy an MS70 or PR70 sight-unseen. I've seen a few of them that aren't really 70s in my opinion and that is unacceptable to me.
Another factor is that most sellers of these MS70s and PR70s are selling w/ no return policy. I believe that may impact the final price as much as the label type. I noticed that I'm in the minority of sellers of these coins who offers a return policy. If I was buying a coin listed as a 70, I'd want to see it in hand first before the deal was done... I just wouldn't feel right about sticking a buyer with a coin they didn't feel was accurately graded. >>
A return policy will add value to the set but there is flip side. Many MS 70 sets are going on Ebay for $700-$900 less today than 1 week ago. Considering many of those winning bidders are just taking or have just taken delivery, many may use the return policy on a perfectly good set just to buy another set post price crash. Could be the start of a vicious cycle of over supply.
<< <i>
A return policy will add value to the set but there is flip side. Many MS 70 sets are going on Ebay for $700-$900 less today than 1 week ago. Considering many of those winning bidders are just taking or have just taken delivery, many may use the return policy on a perfectly good set just to buy another set post price crash. Could be the start of a vicious cycle of over supply. >>
I did think of that before offering returns. So I opted for a 3-day return instead of a 7-day or longer. But still, even in 3 days a lot can change in this market. But knowing I'm in each of my graded sets at under $400/set, I'm willing to take the risk of someone abusing my return policy to make sure I don't stick someone with something they aren't happy with.
Also, even if you offer no return policy, doesn't eBay/PayPal make sellers take returns if the buyer opens a dispute? Not really sure on that since I don't sell on eBay often enough and that may be getting off topic on this thread anyways.
To get more on topic, I went to the Ontario coin show on Thursday and saw dealers buying uncertified unsealed sets for around $600-$700. And they seemed to be selling for around $750-$1000. Some buyers were picky and inspected the coins and would reject anything that didn't look like a 70 to them, others didn't seem to care about the grades of the coins.
I also went to a local coin club meeting on Thursday night and brought a 25th anniversary set in OGP for show and tell. Probably 75% of the members had never even heard of the set and never even knew the Mint had it for sale. Many of them are older collectors who don't use the Internet (we can't even email the monthly club newsletter to many of them and have to send it by U.S. Mail). But after seeing the coins in person, several of them wanted to know how much they were and where they could buy them. Even had a few of them offering to buy my set that I brought along! This was similar to the experience I had when I brought a set of 2010 5oz. ATB quarters for show and tell last year...
Accordingly, even though demand for these sets seems pretty high right now, I think it may even grow stronger over time as the collectors who aren't on the Internet every day (or at all) start to get wind of the set and actually see them in person.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700
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A return policy will add value to the set but there is flip side. Many MS 70 sets are going on Ebay for $700-$900 less today than 1 week ago. Considering many of those winning bidders are just taking or have just taken delivery, many may use the return policy on a perfectly good set just to buy another set post price crash. Could be the start of a vicious cycle of over supply. >>
I did think of that before offering returns. So I opted for a 3-day return instead of a 7-day or longer. But still, even in 3 days a lot can change in this market. But knowing I'm in each of my graded sets at under $400/set, I'm willing to take the risk of someone abusing my return policy to make sure I don't stick someone with something they aren't happy with.
Also, even if you offer no return policy, doesn't eBay/PayPal make sellers take returns if the buyer opens a dispute? Not really sure on that since I don't sell on eBay often enough and that may be getting off topic on this thread anyways.
To get more on topic, I went to the Ontario coin show on Thursday and saw dealers buying uncertified unsealed sets for around $600-$700. And they seemed to be selling for around $750-$1000. Some buyers were picky and inspected the coins and would reject anything that didn't look like a 70 to them, others didn't seem to care about the grades of the coins.
I also went to a local coin club meeting on Thursday night and brought a 25th anniversary set in OGP for show and tell. Probably 75% of the members had never even heard of the set and never even knew the Mint had it for sale. Many of them are older collectors who don't use the Internet (we can't even email the monthly club newsletter to many of them and have to send it by U.S. Mail). But after seeing the coins in person, several of them wanted to know how much they were and where they could buy them. Even had a few of them offering to buy my set that I brought along! This was similar to the experience I had when I brought a set of 2010 5oz. ATB quarters for show and tell last year...
Accordingly, even though demand for these sets seems pretty high right now, I think it may even grow stronger over time as the collectors who aren't on the Internet every day (or at all) start to get wind of the set and actually see them in person. >>
Very sound reasoning as to the return policy and I would be doing exactly the same if selling any, mine are still being graded and will not be for sale anytime soon. As for the belief that interest in still in it's infancy on this set, I also agree. Most people who would be interested in these coins don't even know they exist yet.
I think the reason you're seeing more and more no return auctions has little to do with sellers not wanting to stand behind their merchandise and more to do with buyers expecting to be able to return an item that declines in market value from the time they bought it until the time they get it. Unprofessional buyers don't get the fact that coins and especially hot new items are extemely volatile and prices are fluid. Some get it but still know as an ebay buyer they are in the driver's seat to pretty much be able to return anything even if it is no return. Hence, many expect the seller to absorb any decline in value if it is within what they consider to be a reasonable time period. My answer to that is, I'll bet you'd think I was crazy if I called you up a week after I sold you something wanting the difference in value on an item that went up in value....
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
The Pop reports don't show the true "condition rarity" of this coin in these labels. Smart ebayers are selling the MS 70 FS FLAG bullion peices now as people like me are scrambling to try and put together a full set of 70's.
IMHO that coin should have a value of no more than $90 or so as it is the same as millions of others except for the label. I'm looking for this coin to come down in price significantly once this consolidation is over.
As for the entire set.... I expect the prices of both 69 and 70 sets to rise significantly in the next few months.
<< <i>The next wave we'll see is the onslaught of single ASE's in First Strike Flag labels in MS 70 going for inflated prices. The plain old 2011 bullion peices are already going for > $250 in MS70 FS PCGS Flag holders.
The Pop reports don't show the true "condition rarity" of this coin in these labels. Smart ebayers are selling the MS 70 FS FLAG bullion peices now as people like me are scrambling to try and put together a full set of 70's.
IMHO that coin should have a value of no more than $90 or so as it is the same as millions of others except for the label. I'm looking for this coin to come down in price significantly once this consolidation is over.
As for the entire set.... I expect the prices of both 69 and 70 sets to rise significantly in the next few months. >>
If there are 100,000 of these I will be surprised. I have 10 rolls of 2011 ASE, 5 from SF. And none of them look "burnished". The 2011 25th Anniv NMM eagle's have a distinct horizontal hash mark, and look burnished.
Horizontal Hash Mark
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<< <i>They are probably being discounted because of possibly perceived quality issues
I just got first bulk-graded 2011-P PCGS PR70 Rev PR in my hands - it has more frost breaks than any of my 5 individually graded PR69 s without even going through 10x magnification >>
OUCH!
A 70 should be without these blemishes. Double
I agree. Personally, I wouldn't buy an MS70 or PR70 sight-unseen. I've seen a few of them that aren't really 70s in my opinion and that is unacceptable to me.
Another factor is that most sellers of these MS70s and PR70s are selling w/ no return policy. I believe that may impact the final price as much as the label type. I noticed that I'm in the minority of sellers of these coins who offers a return policy. If I was buying a coin listed as a 70, I'd want to see it in hand first before the deal was done... I just wouldn't feel right about sticking a buyer with a coin they didn't feel was accurately graded. >>
But,, If it's graded a 70 by PCGS, how could it not be a 70,,?????? ,, Hmmmmmm.... they are suppose to be the worlds best,, without any mistakes or flaws,, also, is any of these Cacked yet>??????... are'nt they suppose to be better than PCGS>?????,, How could any modern coin not be graded a 70,/??. I've seen modern PCGS coins with nicks and skid marks graded 69's... but you never see an old coin with simiilar nicks and skid marks graded that high,, why is that,???????????
Box of 20
But, also a great example of buying moderns early and winning. I sold many of them around $1,700 - $2,000/coin two years ago (MS70FS). Two years later ... $4,500 - $5,000/coin! A customer who bought a slabbed 70FS UHR early from me a couple years ago recently called back 2 years later earlier this month to buy (2) 25th sets in 70FS (these at $1,600/set at the time). Let's see (2) years from now how those turned out for him.
Wondercoin
Box of 20
Wondercoin
Not trying to add insult to injury
Or simly put what was the price history for this coin if you can recollect?
<< <i>A bad example for me was the 2006 Gold Reverse Proof. I took a 3K loss on a 70. >>
pf70collector
That statement does not compute, since the Mint price was $800. How could you have possibly taken a $3k hit, unless you purchased it on the secondary market for $6k. If so, it's you own fault for overpaying. The FS PCGS 70's rev. are selling for $3k+ (250% gain in 5 years)
<< <i>just checked ebay and 2 sealed boxes of 5 sold for $3200 and change about $650 a set sealed and opened single sets are going for slightly more. Time to open your boxes? >>
I'd say no for several reasons:
1) After auction or BIN fees for 5 sales, you'd probably be worse off than with the fees for one large sale.
2) Last I saw (yesterday) our very own WonderCoins was offering $640 for sealed sets = $3,200 per box of 5 with no PayPal or Ebay fees.
3) Conjecture on my part, but it seems the flood might be receeding somewhat. I've been watching the total items listed for a couple of search terms: "25 anniversary eagle" and "25 anniversary eagle set pcgs 70". The former peaked at over 2,200 late last week and is now at 2,111. The latter was almost 200 late last week and is now at 143. While far from an exact science, it's the first time I've seen several days of declines in listing numbers since Ebay started stomping on the pre-sales.
4) NGC's "Early Release" deadline was last Thursday, so apart from those sets which have yet to be graded by them, there will be no more forthcoming. PCGS's "First Strike" deadline also passed which means sealed boxes are the only new submissions that can qualify for both First Strike and 25th Anniversary Set labels in full (for those who care).
There are no guarantees, and I could be dead wrong, but with fewer sets on sale and sealed boxes being the only way to get all the "desirable" designations on a label, it seems like about the worst time to break open sealed boxes.
What this probably means is that you should open them now before they head below $3,000 LOL
<< <i>just checked ebay and 2 sealed boxes of 5 sold for $3200 and change about $650 a set sealed and opened single sets are going for slightly more. Time to open your boxes? >>
Only if you intend to sell over the next week or so. Otherwise people should sit on their sealed boxes and wait for the premiums to rise as fewer remain sealed. There are already significantly fewer sealed boxes on the 'bay (not that they're rare though) than there were just a couple weeks ago and it only makes sense that their numbers will continue to decline. IMO folks who wisely buy the two keys in any grade, sets in pcgs 70, and sealed boxes at these levels are going to win big sometime in the next year or two.
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<< <i>just checked ebay and 2 sealed boxes of 5 sold for $3200 and change about $650 a set sealed and opened single sets are going for slightly more. Time to open your boxes? >>
Only if you intend to sell over the next week or so. Otherwise people should sit on their sealed boxes and wait for the premiums to rise as fewer remain sealed. There are already significantly fewer sealed boxes on the 'bay (not that they're rare though) than there were just a couple weeks ago and it only makes sense that their numbers will continue to decline. IMO folks who wisely buy the two keys in any grade, sets in pcgs 70, and sealed boxes at these levels are going to win big sometime in the next year or two. >>
I'm sorry, but i just don't have the risk tolerance on giveing a scammer a free lunch which is why I don't want to sit on my sealed box of 5 because if they did go up significantly from here you just become more worried the higher the price goes on getting taken. Yes, if it were one sealed box for $800 I could careless aboutt the risk of a scammer taken me to the cleaners, but if you start talking $6000 or $7000 then that is a different story.