I am getting a kick out of the terms, "strong hands" and "weak hands". It is a fact that you only invest what you can afford to lose and you only make money when you sell. If you buy a stock at $10 and the stock jumps to $20, if you sell, you double your money (minus fees and Uncle Sam). If you don't sell, you made nothing ....yet.
Now who is to say that just because one sold, they have weak or strong hands? Maybe they just wanted to sell to free up some funds? Maybe they sold to cover their costs? Maybe Aunt Bessie needs surgery? Whatever the reason, it is their reason and such is the way the game is played.
The game is to be able to know when to sell. For those that sold the set during the highs on Nov. 17th, does that actually mean they did better than those that are holding on right now? Time will tell. But those that did sell on that date are the ones that made money on the set. If you are in a holding pattern, you haven't made a dime (not yet). Any of us can tell you this set is a winner. We did before it came out and it will be in the future. Now the game is; buy, sell, or hold. Love this hobby and the players.
Cheers!
"What we are never changes, but who we are ... never stops changing."
<< <i>Now the game is; buy, sell, or hold. Love this hobby and the players. >>
I think you will find that many of us have done or are doing all three. I bought as many as I could and have recovered all my initial costs plus about $1.5K and I'm still holding two boxes of 5 sealed, a 70 set for keeps, a 69 set for future sale, 3 graded pairs of the keys and two raw 3 non-key coin sets. And I'm looking for opportunities to buy any of these that go for ridiculously low prices.
<< <i>I am getting a kick out of the terms, "strong hands" and "weak hands". It is a fact that you only invest what you can afford to lose and you only make money when you sell. If you buy a stock at $10 and the stock jumps to $20, if you sell, you double your money (minus fees and Uncle Sam). If you don't sell, you made nothing ....yet.
Now who is to say that just because one sold, they have weak or strong hands? Maybe they just wanted to sell to free up some funds? Maybe they sold to cover their costs? Maybe Aunt Bessie needs surgery? Whatever the reason, it is their reason and such is the way the game is played.
The game is to be able to know when to sell. For those that sold the set during the highs on Nov. 17th, does that actually mean they did better than those that are holding on right now? Time will tell. But those that did sell on that date are the ones that made money on the set. If you are in a holding pattern, you haven't made a dime (not yet). Any of us can tell you this set is a winner. We did before it came out and it will be in the future. Now the game is; buy, sell, or hold. Love this hobby and the players.
Cheers! >>
Strong hands is a true collector of that Item and purchased it to hold for the long run. Strong hands will not sell just to pocket some cash when a spike in price takes place. Like with the 1995-W Proof, one silver eagle sells for 3K or more and yet you don`t often see one for sale. an example of Strong hands!
oh yes the gold spots also. Had two 08-w Buffalos Pr70 in Pcgs slabs develop red spots about a year after slabbing-PCGS "fixed" them both. Also returned a speckled Jefferson spouse ms70 and a 06 Rev Pr70 $50 AGE after they arrived with red spots not visible on their photos . Since PCGS stands behind the coins seems like a safe hold even for silver. I personally sent a spotted 07W ASE ms70 FS in for review and PCGS sent me a check for $100.
My MS Jane Pierce coin has a strawberry on the obverse . If you weren't the person that had the coin originally graded will PCGS do anything for you? I suppose I should call and ask...
<< <i>I've got weak hands and a strong tongue. Soap helps one and QWERTY helps the other. >>
That would have to be some strong soap, Joe - lots of borax? Haven't quite figured out the QWERTY yet but maybe don't want to! You're just crazy enough to be funny and smart enough to be scary - thanks for making me laugh!
Have bought and sold on BST, many references available when asked.
<< <i>I am getting a kick out of the terms, "strong hands" and "weak hands". It is a fact that you only invest what you can afford to lose >>
Ummm....that is NOT a fact and, quite to the contrary, many people do indeed "invest" what they canNOT afford to lose. Where have you been these last number of years? Have you looked at Wall Street and the economy?
Weak hands are those that put money into something and cannot afford to hold for any length of time because they need the money. Someone stating "I am only dumping these sets now because I need the money" is a weak hand.
Note, at this point, I am not saying one is better than the other, just stating your statement is very inaccurate and many people do/did stretch themselves to make the purchase. Others, however, follow what you have stated and do only "invest" with funds that are discretionary and not needed for immediate bills or borrowed from others and need repaid (wanna bet that some folks that had friends/family purchase sets for them said something like "I'll pay you by the time your CC bill comes"? So, that is now and they are needing the cash for that. Maybe the ones who only got an extra 5-10 sets can handle it, but some of those that got the 50-100+ sets from "friends and family" are definitely feeling the need for cash and bills right now (not talking about those that purchase them outright from others)
<< <i>My MS Jane Pierce coin has a strawberry on the obverse . If you weren't the person that had the coin originally graded will PCGS do anything for you? I suppose I should call and ask... >>
Yes, the grade guaranty is valid for the current owner, you don't have to be the original submitter of the coin to be covered.
<< <i>My MS Jane Pierce coin has a strawberry on the obverse . If you weren't the person that had the coin originally graded will PCGS do anything for you? I suppose I should call and ask... >>
The guarantee stays with the slabbed coin and is not limited to the original submitter.
<< <i>I am getting a kick out of the terms, "strong hands" and "weak hands". It is a fact that you only invest what you can afford to lose >>
Ummm....that is NOT a fact and, quite to the contrary, many people do indeed "invest" what they canNOT afford to lose. Where have you been these last number of years? Have you looked at Wall Street and the economy?
Weak hands are those that put money into something and cannot afford to hold for any length of time because they need the money. Someone stating "I am only dumping these sets now because I need the money" is a weak hand.
Note, at this point, I am not saying one is better than the other, just stating your statement is very inaccurate and many people do/did stretch themselves to make the purchase. Others, however, follow what you have stated and do only "invest" with funds that are discretionary and not needed for immediate bills or borrowed from others and need repaid (wanna bet that some folks that had friends/family purchase sets for them said something like "I'll pay you by the time your CC bill comes"? So, that is now and they are needing the cash for that. Maybe the ones who only got an extra 5-10 sets can handle it, but some of those that got the 50-100+ sets from "friends and family" are definitely feeling the need for cash and bills right now (not talking about those that purchase them outright from others) >>
That is my biggest reservation in holding these 25th anniv sets. If either or both of the 2 key coins spot during the interim, then it is off for spot review and how many months in the dungeon.
<< <i>I am getting a kick out of the terms, "strong hands" and "weak hands". It is a fact that you only invest what you can afford to lose >>
Ummm....that is NOT a fact and, quite to the contrary, many people do indeed "invest" what they canNOT afford to lose. Where have you been these last number of years? Have you looked at Wall Street and the economy?
Weak hands are those that put money into something and cannot afford to hold for any length of time because they need the money. Someone stating "I am only dumping these sets now because I need the money" is a weak hand.
Note, at this point, I am not saying one is better than the other, just stating your statement is very inaccurate and many people do/did stretch themselves to make the purchase. Others, however, follow what you have stated and do only "invest" with funds that are discretionary and not needed for immediate bills or borrowed from others and need repaid (wanna bet that some folks that had friends/family purchase sets for them said something like "I'll pay you by the time your CC bill comes"? So, that is now and they are needing the cash for that. Maybe the ones who only got an extra 5-10 sets can handle it, but some of those that got the 50-100+ sets from "friends and family" are definitely feeling the need for cash and bills right now (not talking about those that purchase them outright from others) >>
Investing or gambling? If people are using funds they can NOT afford to lose, that is a gamble. There is a thin line between investing vs. gambling. Back to 'weak hands' vs. 'smart hands'. To this end, I agree with you. 'Weak hands' can't put money into something to hold on to it for any length of time. They MUST sell to cover their initial costs, etc. (Dad's credit card bill is due). Stong hands, however can put money into it, but choose to sell when they want to get out for what ever reason (profit), but not forced to or NEED to. Someone that sells in the short term, is not necessarily a 'weak hand'. They may just be an investor and are taking their profits.
"What we are never changes, but who we are ... never stops changing."
That is my biggest reservation in holding these 25th anniv sets. If either or both of the 2 key coins spot during the interim, then it is off for spot review and how many months in the dungeon. >>
i have used vacuum freezer bags without a hitch. and i have had spot problems in the past. i do live close to the ocean and in a cool climate and i'm sure that may have something to do with them spotting. but may raw keeper set was "washed" in MS-70 with an acetone rinse, no problems since.
i know you can't do that with slabs, but the vacuum freezer bag route is worth a shot if you plan to store/wait awhile.
and it is a RPITA to send them back for a spot review. i had more problems with the PR than the RP or MS-W.
I think many people on this board including myself are doing what is called taking profit or lowering cost bases
None of us can read the future and unless you 100% in love with these sets and will keep all of them no matter what prices they bring are speculating
Most people here speculating that prices will go up.
However some people chose to minimize the risk and take some money off the table by taking profit and minimizing their value-at-risk
If you're a dealer you're making money buy turning them around at your accepted profit margins (check John Maben's 15% markup note) and not keeping large inventory (VaR)
If you're a small collector you're looking how to possibly maximize the profits with limiting down-side risk and in this case for conservative investors the cost of entry is very important
I think many people on this board including myself are doing what is called taking profit or lowering cost bases
None of us can read the future and unless you 100% in love with these sets and will keep all of them no matter what prices they bring are speculating
Most people here speculating that prices will go up.
However some people chose to minimize the risk and take some money off the table by taking profit and minimizing their value-at-risk
If you're a dealer you're making money buy turning them around at your accepted profit margins (check John Maben's 15% markup note) and not keeping large inventory (VaR)
If you're a small collector you're looking how to possibly maximize the profits with limiting down-side risk and in this case for conservative investors the cost of entry is very important >>
"What we are never changes, but who we are ... never stops changing."
<<< i know you can't do that with slabs, but the vacuum freezer bag route is worth a shot if you plan to store/wait awhile. >>>
Unless the slabs are stored in a very humid environment, I'm not sure storing slabs in vacuum sealed freezer bags will be of any use unless you could also suck the air out of the slab itself.
As someone who has handled 1,000+ silver eagles and who has submitted hundreds for grading I'm going to stick my neck out and say if you examine the these coins closely, rotating them in light at different angles you will see some newly minted coins with small areas almost like dried water spots on a cars surface.
Kind of like a few drops of some volatile solvent had dried leaving an almost imperceptible trace on the surface of the coin.
I believe these areas are the precursers of milk spots.
If you see this on a coin dump it asap...................
<< <i>As someone who has handled 1,000+ silver eagles and who has submitted hundreds for grading I'm going to stick my neck out and say if you examine the these coins closely, rotating them in light at different angles you will see some newly minted coins with small areas almost like dried water spots on a cars surface.
Kind of like a few drops of some volatile solvent had dried leaving an almost imperceptible trace on the surface of the coin.
I believe these areas are the precursers of milk spots.
If you see this on a coin dump it asap................... >>
Interesting.............perhaps the residue from some kind of final rinse at the mint before they are packaged?
<< <i>As someone who has handled 1,000+ silver eagles and who has submitted hundreds for grading I'm going to stick my neck out and say if you examine the these coins closely, rotating them in light at different angles you will see some newly minted coins with small areas almost like dried water spots on a cars surface.
Kind of like a few drops of some volatile solvent had dried leaving an almost imperceptible trace on the surface of the coin.
I believe these areas are the precursers of milk spots.
If you see this on a coin dump it asap................... >>
It has also been said that you can see the incipient spots with a halogen flashlight before they become visible. If you dip them at that point, spotting will be prevented.
<< <i>As someone who has handled 1,000+ silver eagles and who has submitted hundreds for grading I'm going to stick my neck out and say if you examine the these coins closely, rotating them in light at different angles you will see some newly minted coins with small areas almost like dried water spots on a cars surface.
Kind of like a few drops of some volatile solvent had dried leaving an almost imperceptible trace on the surface of the coin.
I believe these areas are the precursers of milk spots.
If you see this on a coin dump it asap................... >>
It has also been said that you can see the incipient spots with a halogen flashlight before they become visible. If you dip them at that point, spotting will be prevented. >>
You guys are starting to convince me to sell everything and just buy silver and gold bars! I suppose I could just throw them into the dishwasher once in awhile.
<< <i>The wave is reversing...elevator going up now. I also believe PCGS Flag holders are stronger than Mercanti. >>
Huh? NGC 70 just sold for $1376. >>
Way too high considering the NGC 70 = PCGS 69 >>
It's flagrantly inaccurate to say NGC 70 = PCGS 69. True, PCGS usually has tighter standards for 70s at least when it comes to moderns. However, many NGC 70s are also PCGS 70s. A better expression of the differences would be that NGC 70 = PCGS 70 + PCGS 69.5 & up. Beyond that, there's plenty of room for minor grading errors, and varying individual judgements blurring the boundaries. Let's be forthright about this, and not twist things obsequiously.
<< <i>The wave is reversing...elevator going up now. I also believe PCGS Flag holders are stronger than Mercanti. >>
Huh? NGC 70 just sold for $1376. >>
Way too high considering the NGC 70 = PCGS 69 >>
It's flagrantly inaccurate to say NGC 70 = PCGS 69. True, PCGS usually has tighter standards for 70s at least when it comes to moderns. However, many NGC 70s are also PCGS 70s. A better expression of the differences would be that NGC 70 = PCGS 70 + PCGS 69.5 & up. Beyond that, there's plenty of room for minor grading errors, and varying individual judgements blurring the boundaries. Let's be forthright about this, and not twist things obsequiously. >>
From the graded 25th anniversary sets that I've seen in hand, I think it's more accurate to say that about half of the NGC 70s are PCGS 69s. The other half probably would be PCGS 70s as well. Makes sense when you see reports of around 8/25 coins getting 70 at PCGS and 16+/25 getting 70 at NGC.
<< <i>The wave is reversing...elevator going up now. I also believe PCGS Flag holders are stronger than Mercanti. >>
Huh? NGC 70 just sold for $1376. >>
Way too high considering the NGC 70 = PCGS 69 >>
Not really accurate in the case of this set. While you may get a MS 70 set graded by NGC that may not be up to the quality of a PCGS graded set, you may get one every bit as good. For your statement to be accurate the quality of coins submitted to PCGS would have to be superior to those submitted to NGC and that is not the case. I'm sure both services have received and slabbed fantastic coins. In fact, the very best coins of the entire mintage could just as easily reside in either slab. If I were buying MS 70's at a show where I could cherry pick, I'd look at every NGC set before I even looked at PCGS sets, due to the lower price. But then again, I buy the coin not the slab.
<< <i>From the graded 25th anniversary sets that I've seen in hand, I think it's more accurate to say that about half of the NGC 70s are PCGS 69s. The other half probably would be PCGS 70s as well. >>
Illini420: Hi, Don't you think our statements are virtually identical? Why is yours more accurate?
<< <i>The wave is reversing...elevator going up now. I also believe PCGS Flag holders are stronger than Mercanti. >>
Huh? NGC 70 just sold for $1376. >>
Way too high considering the NGC 70 = PCGS 69 >>
It's flagrantly inaccurate to say NGC 70 = PCGS 69. True, PCGS usually has tighter standards for 70s at least when it comes to moderns. However, many NGC 70s are also PCGS 70s. A better expression of the differences would be that NGC 70 = PCGS 70 + PCGS 69.5 & up. Beyond that, there's plenty of room for minor grading errors, and varying individual judgements blurring the boundaries. Let's be forthright about this, and not twist things obsequiously. >>
Yup, that accounts for the percentage differences. But then again, I suppose those submitting to NGC just got lucky and received the better coins. Yup, that must be it!
Besides, the NGC 70's generally go for around the price of PCGS 69's.
<< <i>From the graded 25th anniversary sets that I've seen in hand, I think it's more accurate to say that about half of the NGC 70s are PCGS 69s. The other half probably would be PCGS 70s as well. >>
Illini420: Hi, Don't you think our statements are virtually identical? Why is yours more accurate? >>
Sorry, I was mostly saying that the NGC 70 = PCGS 69 was inaccruate... but after reading yours again, I do sort of disagree with the PCGS 69.5 part... mostly because I don't think any grader can consistently grade to within 0.1 of a grade point... they have enough trouble grading to within 1 full point with consistency!!!!
<< <i>From the graded 25th anniversary sets that I've seen in hand, I think it's more accurate to say that about half of the NGC 70s are PCGS 69s. The other half probably would be PCGS 70s as well. >>
Illini420: Hi, Don't you think our statements are virtually identical? Why is yours more accurate? >>
Because he is saying 50% of NGC 70 are PCGS 69's. Not 69.5's. Sure, there are some that would cross over to PCGS 70 and per Illini420, only about half would.
Would anybody like to trade their NGC 70 25th anniversary set for my otherwise identical PCGS 69 25th anniversary set? If so, let's adjourn to the BST and do it.
<< <i>Would anybody like to trade their NGC 70 25th anniversary set for my otherwise identical PCGS 69 25th anniversary set? If so, let's adjourn to the BST and do it. >>
<< <i>Would anybody like to trade their NGC 70 25th anniversary set for my otherwise identical PCGS 69 25th anniversary set? If so, let's adjourn to the BST and do it. >>
Touche'............The defense tests. MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I've seen them on some of the commemoratives...specifically, the San Fran mint silver. Nothing ever materialized. Still the same in their holders and raw.
I will only keep one set of PCGS 70s for my collection. If I grade these, the sets will be sold immediately. I kept a few sets of the 2006 PCGS 20th Anniversary sets and almost all developed spotting issues. I stopped collecting these except for the Anniversary Sets in PCGS and NGC 70s only because of their guarantee. I had a roll of ASEs completely spot up on me. Good for stacking but not for collecting.
<< <i>You guys are starting to convince me to sell everything and just buy silver and gold bars! I suppose I could just throw them into the dishwasher once in awhile. >>
LOL, too. It's like flippin' pancakes...or a pancake on a bunny's head.
<< <i>Would anybody like to trade their NGC 70 25th anniversary set for my otherwise identical PCGS 69 25th anniversary set? If so, let's adjourn to the BST and do it. >>
Sorry, all mine are graded by PCGS. However, I will keep my PCGS 69's and you can keep your NGC 70's.
Besides, go look at the eBay auction results for the 70 sets. PCGS is approx. $300 higher. Tell you something. Most people, like myself, aren't able to go to big shows all the time but have learned from the shows we attended, the odds of getting better looking coins buying blind (eBay, Teletrade, etc) is buying PCGS graded coins. Sure, if I could cherrypick from hundred of NGC coins, I could get a very fine set as there are 70 coins in there. However, there are also more 69 coins in there than what you might find with PCGS coins. Nobody is perfect, but I believe PCGS has a higher standard that translates into getting what you pay for.
I did find the 69.5 interesting. So, i guess you are saying NGC round up where PCGS say it doesn't met the quality level of a 70 coin.
FYI - when I have been able to look at the coin in person, I have bought NGC coins which equal PCGS. However, I have passed on more NGC's than PCGS coins, comparing them side by side.
<< <i>Would anybody like to trade their NGC 70 25th anniversary set for my otherwise identical PCGS 69 25th anniversary set? If so, let's adjourn to the BST and do it. >>
Sorry, all mine are graded by PCGS. However, I will keep my PCGS 69's and you can keep your NGC 70's.
Besides, go look at the eBay auction results for the 70 sets. PCGS is approx. $300 higher. Tell you something. Most people, like myself, aren't able to go to big shows all the time but have learned from the shows we attended, the odds of getting better looking coins buying blind (eBay, Teletrade, etc) is buying PCGS graded coins. Sure, if I could cherrypick from hundred of NGC coins, I could get a very fine set as there are 70 coins in there. However, there are also more 69 coins in there than what you might find with PCGS coins. Nobody is perfect, but I believe PCGS has a higher standard that translates into getting what you pay for. >>
You would not have to cherry pick "hundreds of coins" to get a good set, unless they were already heavily cherry picked. You seem to be bent on dissing NGC by exaggerating the truth. The initial PCGS population reports showed a grade through rate for MS 70 at approximately 65% for about the first 500 sets graded. That is probably only a little shy of the NGC rates for MS 70. PCGS seems to be tightening quite a bit now and there is no available census reports for NGC to reveal if they are or not. There is no guarantee a PCGS set is going to be appreciably better than an NGC set. I'm not a cheerleader for either TPG, have submission privileges to both services and own many coins slabbed by both. In fact, the vast majority of my Bust Halves and Double Eagles are PCGS slabbed coins. If you want to buy PCGS coins exclusively then have at it. You are just the kind of collector they love. As for me, I'll continue collecting coins instead of slabs.
Like I said above, I have bought NGC coins and have several in my collection. However, buying blind, I have returned more NGC coins than I have PCGS because I didn't feel they were the quality that the grade said they were. Sure, if I could always go to big coin shows all the time and buy my coins, I would buy NGC as I would be able to see them and pick the best. But, where I live, I can't do that.
NGC is a fine company and I would believe their grade over say ANACS, ACGS, SEG, etc. buying blind.
<< <i>As someone who has handled 1,000+ silver eagles and who has submitted hundreds for grading I'm going to stick my neck out and say if you examine the these coins closely, rotating them in light at different angles you will see some newly minted coins with small areas almost like dried water spots on a cars surface.
Kind of like a few drops of some volatile solvent had dried leaving an almost imperceptible trace on the surface of the coin.
I believe these areas are the precursers of milk spots.
If you see this on a coin dump it asap................... >>
It has also been said that you can see the incipient spots with a halogen flashlight before they become visible. If you dip them at that point, spotting will be prevented. >>
What do you dip them with? Acetone, MS 70? Thanks >>
I don't mess with them, not into ASEs anymore. Some say dip them in acetone. Some recommend EZest. I'd suggest the EZest. If I had a graded 70 set that I planned to keep, I'd be askin about PCGS doin it for me along with a reholder.
As indicated earlier, I am of the belief that there are two spotting issues since it appears that some can be conserved after spotting is visible and some can't.
I said it would be about $750 by Christmas. I'll lower it back down more, now to $700, maybe less at Christmas. Whatever happened to the $1500 predictions? Or even the $1000 per set? I see PCGS 70 grades sets SELLING for $1500!!! The winners monetarily wise are the ones whom got out early. Almost ALWAYS do. Like LALKASD4 said: You never go wrong with taking a profit. They will continue going down like the 2006 silver and gold sets. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.
You only live life once, enjoy it like it's your last day. It just MIGHT be!
Comments
<< <i>There is a big difference between silver and gold. While it may turn out that way i would not bet the farm. There are easier ways to make $$ >>
You are correct....there is a MUCH greater upshot for a silver mint issued piece. The 1995 W ASEis evidence of this.
Now who is to say that just because one sold, they have weak or strong hands? Maybe they just wanted to sell to free up some funds? Maybe they sold to cover their costs? Maybe Aunt Bessie needs surgery? Whatever the reason, it is their reason and such is the way the game is played.
The game is to be able to know when to sell. For those that sold the set during the highs on Nov. 17th, does that actually mean they did better than those that are holding on right now? Time will tell. But those that did sell on that date are the ones that made money on the set. If you are in a holding pattern, you haven't made a dime (not yet). Any of us can tell you this set is a winner. We did before it came out and it will be in the future. Now the game is; buy, sell, or hold. Love this hobby and the players.
Cheers!
<< <i>Now the game is; buy, sell, or hold. Love this hobby and the players. >>
I think you will find that many of us have done or are doing all three. I bought as many as I could and have recovered all my initial costs plus about $1.5K and I'm still holding two boxes of 5 sealed, a 70 set for keeps, a 69 set for future sale, 3 graded pairs of the keys and two raw 3 non-key coin sets. And I'm looking for opportunities to buy any of these that go for ridiculously low prices.
Cheers, and cheers again!!!
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
<< <i>I am getting a kick out of the terms, "strong hands" and "weak hands". It is a fact that you only invest what you can afford to lose and you only make money when you sell. If you buy a stock at $10 and the stock jumps to $20, if you sell, you double your money (minus fees and Uncle Sam). If you don't sell, you made nothing ....yet.
Now who is to say that just because one sold, they have weak or strong hands? Maybe they just wanted to sell to free up some funds? Maybe they sold to cover their costs? Maybe Aunt Bessie needs surgery? Whatever the reason, it is their reason and such is the way the game is played.
The game is to be able to know when to sell. For those that sold the set during the highs on Nov. 17th, does that actually mean they did better than those that are holding on right now? Time will tell. But those that did sell on that date are the ones that made money on the set. If you are in a holding pattern, you haven't made a dime (not yet). Any of us can tell you this set is a winner. We did before it came out and it will be in the future. Now the game is; buy, sell, or hold. Love this hobby and the players.
Cheers! >>
Strong hands is a true collector of that Item and purchased it to hold for the long run. Strong hands will not sell just to pocket some cash when a spike in price takes place. Like with the 1995-W Proof, one silver eagle sells for 3K or more and yet you don`t often see one for sale. an example of Strong hands!
Soap helps one
and QWERTY helps the other.
<< <i>Gold does not get the nasty silver spots. I am not sure I want to wait a year to find out whether the silver spots will strike again or not. >>
You hit the nail on the head. Like a hot potato.
<< <i>I've got weak hands and a strong tongue.
Soap helps one
and QWERTY helps the other. >>
That would have to be some strong soap, Joe - lots of borax? Haven't quite figured out the QWERTY yet but maybe don't want to! You're just crazy enough to be funny and smart enough to be scary - thanks for making me laugh!
<< <i>I am getting a kick out of the terms, "strong hands" and "weak hands". It is a fact that you only invest what you can afford to lose >>
Ummm....that is NOT a fact and, quite to the contrary, many people do indeed "invest" what they canNOT afford to lose.
Where have you been these last number of years? Have you looked at Wall Street and the economy?
Weak hands are those that put money into something and cannot afford to hold for any length of time because they need the money. Someone stating "I am only dumping these sets now because I need the money" is a weak hand.
Note, at this point, I am not saying one is better than the other, just stating your statement is very inaccurate and many people do/did stretch themselves to make the purchase. Others, however, follow what you have stated and do only "invest" with funds that are discretionary and not needed for immediate bills or borrowed from others and need repaid (wanna bet that some folks that had friends/family purchase sets for them said something like "I'll pay you by the time your CC bill comes"? So, that is now and they are needing the cash for that. Maybe the ones who only got an extra 5-10 sets can handle it, but some of those that got the 50-100+ sets from "friends and family" are definitely feeling the need for cash and bills right now (not talking about those that purchase them outright from others)
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>My MS Jane Pierce coin has a strawberry on the obverse
Yes, the grade guaranty is valid for the current owner, you don't have to be the original submitter of the coin to be covered.
<< <i>My MS Jane Pierce coin has a strawberry on the obverse
The guarantee stays with the slabbed coin and is not limited to the original submitter.
<< <i>
<< <i>I am getting a kick out of the terms, "strong hands" and "weak hands". It is a fact that you only invest what you can afford to lose >>
Ummm....that is NOT a fact and, quite to the contrary, many people do indeed "invest" what they canNOT afford to lose.
Where have you been these last number of years? Have you looked at Wall Street and the economy?
Weak hands are those that put money into something and cannot afford to hold for any length of time because they need the money. Someone stating "I am only dumping these sets now because I need the money" is a weak hand.
Note, at this point, I am not saying one is better than the other, just stating your statement is very inaccurate and many people do/did stretch themselves to make the purchase. Others, however, follow what you have stated and do only "invest" with funds that are discretionary and not needed for immediate bills or borrowed from others and need repaid (wanna bet that some folks that had friends/family purchase sets for them said something like "I'll pay you by the time your CC bill comes"? So, that is now and they are needing the cash for that. Maybe the ones who only got an extra 5-10 sets can handle it, but some of those that got the 50-100+ sets from "friends and family" are definitely feeling the need for cash and bills right now (not talking about those that purchase them outright from others) >>
Well said
+1
<< <i>None of my platinum eagles have spots.
That is my biggest reservation in holding these 25th anniv sets. If either or both of the 2 key coins spot during the interim, then it is off for spot review and how many months in the dungeon.
<< <i>
<< <i>I am getting a kick out of the terms, "strong hands" and "weak hands". It is a fact that you only invest what you can afford to lose >>
Ummm....that is NOT a fact and, quite to the contrary, many people do indeed "invest" what they canNOT afford to lose.
Where have you been these last number of years? Have you looked at Wall Street and the economy?
Weak hands are those that put money into something and cannot afford to hold for any length of time because they need the money. Someone stating "I am only dumping these sets now because I need the money" is a weak hand.
Note, at this point, I am not saying one is better than the other, just stating your statement is very inaccurate and many people do/did stretch themselves to make the purchase. Others, however, follow what you have stated and do only "invest" with funds that are discretionary and not needed for immediate bills or borrowed from others and need repaid (wanna bet that some folks that had friends/family purchase sets for them said something like "I'll pay you by the time your CC bill comes"? So, that is now and they are needing the cash for that. Maybe the ones who only got an extra 5-10 sets can handle it, but some of those that got the 50-100+ sets from "friends and family" are definitely feeling the need for cash and bills right now (not talking about those that purchase them outright from others) >>
Investing or gambling? If people are using funds they can NOT afford to lose, that is a gamble. There is a thin line between investing vs. gambling. Back to 'weak hands' vs. 'smart hands'. To this end, I agree with you. 'Weak hands' can't put money into something to hold on to it for any length of time. They MUST sell to cover their initial costs, etc. (Dad's credit card bill is due). Stong hands, however can put money into it, but choose to sell when they want to get out for what ever reason (profit), but not forced to or NEED to. Someone that sells in the short term, is not necessarily a 'weak hand'. They may just be an investor and are taking their profits.
<< <i>
<< <i>None of my platinum eagles have spots.
That is my biggest reservation in holding these 25th anniv sets. If either or both of the 2 key coins spot during the interim, then it is off for spot review and how many months in the dungeon. >>
i have used vacuum freezer bags without a hitch. and i have had spot problems in the past. i do live close to the ocean and in a cool climate and i'm sure that may have something to do with them spotting. but may raw keeper set was "washed" in MS-70 with an acetone rinse, no problems since.
i know you can't do that with slabs, but the vacuum freezer bag route is worth a shot if you plan to store/wait awhile.
and it is a RPITA to send them back for a spot review. i had more problems with the PR than the RP or MS-W.
I think many people on this board including myself are doing what is called taking profit or lowering cost bases
None of us can read the future and unless you 100% in love with these sets and will keep all of them no matter what prices they bring are speculating
Most people here speculating that prices will go up.
However some people chose to minimize the risk and take some money off the table by taking profit and minimizing their value-at-risk
If you're a dealer you're making money buy turning them around at your accepted profit margins (check John Maben's 15% markup note) and not keeping large inventory (VaR)
If you're a small collector you're looking how to possibly maximize the profits with limiting down-side risk and in this case for conservative investors the cost of entry is very important
<< <i>My 2 cents
I think many people on this board including myself are doing what is called taking profit or lowering cost bases
None of us can read the future and unless you 100% in love with these sets and will keep all of them no matter what prices they bring are speculating
Most people here speculating that prices will go up.
However some people chose to minimize the risk and take some money off the table by taking profit and minimizing their value-at-risk
If you're a dealer you're making money buy turning them around at your accepted profit margins (check John Maben's 15% markup note) and not keeping large inventory (VaR)
If you're a small collector you're looking how to possibly maximize the profits with limiting down-side risk and in this case for conservative investors the cost of entry is very important >>
Unless the slabs are stored in a very humid environment, I'm not sure storing slabs in vacuum sealed freezer bags will be of any use unless you could also suck the air out of the slab itself.
Kind of like a few drops of some volatile solvent had dried leaving an almost imperceptible trace on the surface of the coin.
I believe these areas are the precursers of milk spots.
If you see this on a coin dump it asap...................
<< <i>As someone who has handled 1,000+ silver eagles and who has submitted hundreds for grading I'm going to stick my neck out and say if you examine the these coins closely, rotating them in light at different angles you will see some newly minted coins with small areas almost like dried water spots on a cars surface.
Kind of like a few drops of some volatile solvent had dried leaving an almost imperceptible trace on the surface of the coin.
I believe these areas are the precursers of milk spots.
If you see this on a coin dump it asap................... >>
Interesting.............perhaps the residue from some kind of final rinse at the mint before they are packaged?
Jim
<< <i>
<< <i>The wave is reversing...elevator going up now.
I also believe PCGS Flag holders are stronger than Mercanti. >>
Huh? NGC 70 just sold for $1376. >>
Way too high considering the NGC 70 = PCGS 69
<< <i>As someone who has handled 1,000+ silver eagles and who has submitted hundreds for grading I'm going to stick my neck out and say if you examine the these coins closely, rotating them in light at different angles you will see some newly minted coins with small areas almost like dried water spots on a cars surface.
Kind of like a few drops of some volatile solvent had dried leaving an almost imperceptible trace on the surface of the coin.
I believe these areas are the precursers of milk spots.
If you see this on a coin dump it asap................... >>
It has also been said that you can see the incipient spots with a halogen flashlight before they become visible. If you dip them at that point, spotting will be prevented.
<< <i>
<< <i>As someone who has handled 1,000+ silver eagles and who has submitted hundreds for grading I'm going to stick my neck out and say if you examine the these coins closely, rotating them in light at different angles you will see some newly minted coins with small areas almost like dried water spots on a cars surface.
Kind of like a few drops of some volatile solvent had dried leaving an almost imperceptible trace on the surface of the coin.
I believe these areas are the precursers of milk spots.
If you see this on a coin dump it asap................... >>
It has also been said that you can see the incipient spots with a halogen flashlight before they become visible. If you dip them at that point, spotting will be prevented. >>
What do you dip them with? Acetone, MS 70? Thanks
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The wave is reversing...elevator going up now. I also believe PCGS Flag holders are stronger than Mercanti. >>
Huh? NGC 70 just sold for $1376. >>
Way too high considering the NGC 70 = PCGS 69 >>
It's flagrantly inaccurate to say NGC 70 = PCGS 69. True, PCGS usually has tighter standards for 70s at least when it comes to moderns. However, many NGC 70s are also PCGS 70s. A better expression of the differences would be that NGC 70 = PCGS 70 + PCGS 69.5 & up. Beyond that, there's plenty of room for minor grading errors, and varying individual judgements blurring the boundaries. Let's be forthright about this, and not twist things obsequiously.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The wave is reversing...elevator going up now. I also believe PCGS Flag holders are stronger than Mercanti. >>
Huh? NGC 70 just sold for $1376. >>
Way too high considering the NGC 70 = PCGS 69 >>
It's flagrantly inaccurate to say NGC 70 = PCGS 69. True, PCGS usually has tighter standards for 70s at least when it comes to moderns. However, many NGC 70s are also PCGS 70s. A better expression of the differences would be that NGC 70 = PCGS 70 + PCGS 69.5 & up. Beyond that, there's plenty of room for minor grading errors, and varying individual judgements blurring the boundaries. Let's be forthright about this, and not twist things obsequiously. >>
From the graded 25th anniversary sets that I've seen in hand, I think it's more accurate to say that about half of the NGC 70s are PCGS 69s. The other half probably would be PCGS 70s as well. Makes sense when you see reports of around 8/25 coins getting 70 at PCGS and 16+/25 getting 70 at NGC.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The wave is reversing...elevator going up now.
I also believe PCGS Flag holders are stronger than Mercanti. >>
Huh? NGC 70 just sold for $1376. >>
Way too high considering the NGC 70 = PCGS 69 >>
Not really accurate in the case of this set. While you may get a MS 70 set graded by NGC that may not be up to the quality of a PCGS graded set, you may get one every bit as good. For your statement to be accurate the quality of coins submitted to PCGS would have to be superior to those submitted to NGC and that is not the case. I'm sure both services have received and slabbed fantastic coins. In fact, the very best coins of the entire mintage could just as easily reside in either slab. If I were buying MS 70's at a show where I could cherry pick, I'd look at every NGC set before I even looked at PCGS sets, due to the lower price. But then again, I buy the coin not the slab.
<< <i>From the graded 25th anniversary sets that I've seen in hand, I think it's more accurate to say that about half of the NGC 70s are PCGS 69s. The other half probably would be PCGS 70s as well. >>
Illini420: Hi, Don't you think our statements are virtually identical? Why is yours more accurate?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The wave is reversing...elevator going up now. I also believe PCGS Flag holders are stronger than Mercanti. >>
Huh? NGC 70 just sold for $1376. >>
Way too high considering the NGC 70 = PCGS 69 >>
It's flagrantly inaccurate to say NGC 70 = PCGS 69. True, PCGS usually has tighter standards for 70s at least when it comes to moderns. However, many NGC 70s are also PCGS 70s. A better expression of the differences would be that NGC 70 = PCGS 70 + PCGS 69.5 & up. Beyond that, there's plenty of room for minor grading errors, and varying individual judgements blurring the boundaries. Let's be forthright about this, and not twist things obsequiously. >>
Yup, that accounts for the percentage differences. But then again, I suppose those submitting to NGC just got lucky and received the better coins. Yup, that must be it!
Besides, the NGC 70's generally go for around the price of PCGS 69's.
<< <i>
<< <i>From the graded 25th anniversary sets that I've seen in hand, I think it's more accurate to say that about half of the NGC 70s are PCGS 69s. The other half probably would be PCGS 70s as well. >>
Illini420: Hi, Don't you think our statements are virtually identical? Why is yours more accurate? >>
Sorry, I was mostly saying that the NGC 70 = PCGS 69 was inaccruate... but after reading yours again, I do sort of disagree with the PCGS 69.5 part... mostly because I don't think any grader can consistently grade to within 0.1 of a grade point... they have enough trouble grading to within 1 full point with consistency!!!!
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>
<< <i>From the graded 25th anniversary sets that I've seen in hand, I think it's more accurate to say that about half of the NGC 70s are PCGS 69s. The other half probably would be PCGS 70s as well. >>
Illini420: Hi, Don't you think our statements are virtually identical? Why is yours more accurate? >>
Because he is saying 50% of NGC 70 are PCGS 69's. Not 69.5's. Sure, there are some that would cross over to PCGS 70 and per Illini420, only about half would.
<< <i>Would anybody like to trade their NGC 70 25th anniversary set for my otherwise identical PCGS 69 25th anniversary set? If so, let's adjourn to the BST and do it. >>
Nice point.
<< <i>Would anybody like to trade their NGC 70 25th anniversary set for my otherwise identical PCGS 69 25th anniversary set? If so, let's adjourn to the BST and do it. >>
Touche'............The defense tests. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Box of 20
<< <i>You guys are starting to convince me to sell everything and just buy silver and gold bars! I suppose I could just throw them into the dishwasher once in awhile. >>
It's like flippin' pancakes...or a pancake on a bunny's head.
<< <i>Would anybody like to trade their NGC 70 25th anniversary set for my otherwise identical PCGS 69 25th anniversary set? If so, let's adjourn to the BST and do it. >>
Sorry, all mine are graded by PCGS. However, I will keep my PCGS 69's and you can keep your NGC 70's.
Besides, go look at the eBay auction results for the 70 sets. PCGS is approx. $300 higher. Tell you something. Most people, like myself, aren't able to go to big shows all the time but have learned from the shows we attended, the odds of getting better looking coins buying blind (eBay, Teletrade, etc) is buying PCGS graded coins. Sure, if I could cherrypick from hundred of NGC coins, I could get a very fine set as there are 70 coins in there. However, there are also more 69 coins in there than what you might find with PCGS coins. Nobody is perfect, but I believe PCGS has a higher standard that translates into getting what you pay for.
I did find the 69.5 interesting. So, i guess you are saying NGC round up where PCGS say it doesn't met the quality level of a 70 coin.
FYI - when I have been able to look at the coin in person, I have bought NGC coins which equal PCGS. However, I have passed on more NGC's than PCGS coins, comparing them side by side.
<< <i>
<< <i>Would anybody like to trade their NGC 70 25th anniversary set for my otherwise identical PCGS 69 25th anniversary set? If so, let's adjourn to the BST and do it. >>
Sorry, all mine are graded by PCGS. However, I will keep my PCGS 69's and you can keep your NGC 70's.
Besides, go look at the eBay auction results for the 70 sets. PCGS is approx. $300 higher. Tell you something. Most people, like myself, aren't able to go to big shows all the time but have learned from the shows we attended, the odds of getting better looking coins buying blind (eBay, Teletrade, etc) is buying PCGS graded coins. Sure, if I could cherrypick from hundred of NGC coins, I could get a very fine set as there are 70 coins in there. However, there are also more 69 coins in there than what you might find with PCGS coins. Nobody is perfect, but I believe PCGS has a higher standard that translates into getting what you pay for. >>
You would not have to cherry pick "hundreds of coins" to get a good set, unless they were already heavily cherry picked. You seem to be bent on dissing NGC by exaggerating the truth. The initial PCGS population reports showed a grade through rate for MS 70 at approximately 65% for about the first 500 sets graded. That is probably only a little shy of the NGC rates for MS 70. PCGS seems to be tightening quite a bit now and there is no available census reports for NGC to reveal if they are or not. There is no guarantee a PCGS set is going to be appreciably better than an NGC set. I'm not a cheerleader for either TPG, have submission privileges to both services and own many coins slabbed by both. In fact, the vast majority of my Bust Halves and Double Eagles are PCGS slabbed coins. If you want to buy PCGS coins exclusively then have at it. You are just the kind of collector they love. As for me, I'll continue collecting coins instead of slabs.
NGC is a fine company and I would believe their grade over say ANACS, ACGS, SEG, etc. buying blind.
<< <i>It's like flippin' pancakes...or a pancake on a bunny's head. >>
do a you tube search for MAC LETHAL
<< <i>
<< <i>It's like flippin' pancakes...or a pancake on a bunny's head. >>
do a you tube search for MAC LETHAL >>
The pancake video was super funny, that guy is good, imo.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>As someone who has handled 1,000+ silver eagles and who has submitted hundreds for grading I'm going to stick my neck out and say if you examine the these coins closely, rotating them in light at different angles you will see some newly minted coins with small areas almost like dried water spots on a cars surface.
Kind of like a few drops of some volatile solvent had dried leaving an almost imperceptible trace on the surface of the coin.
I believe these areas are the precursers of milk spots.
If you see this on a coin dump it asap................... >>
It has also been said that you can see the incipient spots with a halogen flashlight before they become visible. If you dip them at that point, spotting will be prevented. >>
What do you dip them with? Acetone, MS 70? Thanks >>
I don't mess with them, not into ASEs anymore. Some say dip them in acetone. Some recommend EZest. I'd suggest the EZest. If I had a graded 70 set that I planned to keep, I'd be askin about PCGS doin it for me along with a reholder.
As indicated earlier, I am of the belief that there are two spotting issues since it appears that some can be conserved after spotting is visible and some can't.