Just kidding. But in talking with a friend at a large law firm who just told me his firms insurance premiums dropped, i decided to look for other examples. >>
That would be nice. When I was shopping for insurance in 2009 Aetna wasn't as competitive with Connecticare. Connecticare put in an across the board 20% increase this January. Maybe I'll look at switching to Aetna as the year progresses because in a couple of years my health care plan will be a mortgage payment. Another variable is how fussy each insurer is with pre-existing conditions of any note. Some won't touch you if you have any negative history at all. In that case I ask, why would such a person need insurance if they've been in perfect health for 50 years at negligible cost to the insurer. Just checked Aetna's plan and their comparable plan to mine is 13% cheaper. A year ago Aetna's was more expensive. My insurer seems to be headed in the wrong direction...lol.
I like how CNBC stated all losses from last week have been recovered. They don't mention that the DOW was at 12,500 and that it is still down 1000 points.
<< <i>I like how CNBC stated all losses from last week have been recovered. They don't mention that the DOW was at 12,500 and that it is still down 1000 points. >>
Short term revisionist history. We'll soon hear that we are better off than 2008.
How long can the off-book $600 trillion in derivatives float? And "avoid (the US from) another race to the bottom around the world" according to Geithner. This guy is really smoething.
"If there's a better way, we'd love to hear about it."
What a crock and scam on the people!! How about balancing the budget and stop wasting the people's money (and time)?!
.....GOD
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
I would bet what's in my wallet that if this guy were in there would be an instantanous interest in all things American around the world, the dollar would find real support as the world would know that maybe for the 1st time in over 100 years a founding father type is in command, the reckless spending would be targeted for termination, taxes would be slashed which would create a FRIENDLY atmosphere for business to manufacture and everything else that's attached to it and we would see a new day of prosperity that would become the envy of the world.
<< <i>How long can the off-book $600 trillion in derivatives float? And "avoid (the US from) another race to the bottom around the world" according to Geithner. This guy is really smoething. >>
It can continue to float as long as interest rates stay right where they are.....low. And to ensure that is the case, the big US banks have been adding $10-$20 TRILL in interest rate swaps per year to keep the status quo. Rates stay low and these can be continually kicked down the road on someone else's watch. But as our economy has shown, there is a heavy price to pay for artificially induced low interest rates. Nothing gets fixed and things only continue to spiral down. And the flip side is they can't raise rates to make the dollar competitive w/o self-destructing that $600 TRILL derivatives pile. Catch 22.
<< <i>Where lots of revenues and jobs are going and not-a-comin-back >>
Are going? That implies that it is still going on. How about long gone!? All of those jobs were sent over many years ago. I won't fly United because they are 100% outsourced call centers. At the company I work for here, they bring the workers from India in and have them stay many months at a time rather than hire permanent American engineers. But the burden rate for them when they are here in the US is all accounting trickery. All of the company's overhead and executive salaries and bureaucracy get factored into the American rates, but the Indians are accounted for like they are from a staffing company which has minimal overhead and layers of management.
If you do look though, there are a few reports of some companies that are closing overseas operations and bringing them back. It's not working for all products and industries. Unfortunately though many companies still have the same management that was responsible for making the move, and they are not about to admit their mistake and reverse the decision, even if it is the profitable and logical thing to do.
These offshore call centers just frustrate customers....
Companies don't care if the customer is frustrated, they just care about providing the customer with sevice (even the sh&tty kind)
and of course, the bottom line
The best thing that could have been done in our horrible economic condition - is to pull all H1B Visa's - you cannot convince me that we can't train Americans to handle Tech jobs.......
It's all about the $$$, that's it, the company saves bucks and has a "captive" employee (H1B sponsored employee) -
<< <i>The best thing that could have been done in our horrible economic condition - is to pull all H1B Visa's - you cannot convince me that we can't train Americans to handle Tech jobs.......
It's all about the $$$, that's it, the company saves bucks and has a "captive" employee (H1B sponsored employee) - >>
That's one of the biggest myths that's been allowed to perpetuate and for some reason has gone uncontested (that companies can't find the talent). The rality is that when companies say they "can't find the talent they are looking for here" what the really mean is that they "can't find the talent they are looking for here at the price we want to pay. The reality is that the talent doesn't/didn't exist in India or other countries either. You really think they have loads of experienced aerospace/microprocessor/you-name-it engineers just looking for jobs? Of course not, because until recently they didn't have the industries to provide that experience. All they had was new grads who they could hire at a ratio of 5:1 Americans.
<< <i>Where lots of revenues and jobs are going and not-a-comin-back >>
Are going? That implies that it is still going on. How about long gone!? . >>
I don't think so. Unfortunately I don't think this even hit it's stride yet. It amazes me the junk that gets sold here. Junk. Crap. My Wife bought me a new hp laptop so I could watch youtube on the big screen ( least that's the plan ) I don't think I used it more than half a dozen times and it blew a mother board. Out of any warranty the computer guy shrugged and told me we don't make computers in the US and in this case he had to order the mother board from china! If this computer was important to me I'd be a prisoner, and anyone else who owns one will be a prisoner to whatever time it takes to receive the part from 10,000 miles away and to whatever quality they decide to build into these things knowing full well there's no response to junk in other areas so why not send more of it in this one?
Been thinking on that issue. At some point, folks will have to get tired of buying their cheap tools, cheap toys, cheap clothing, cheap shoes...cheap as in crap that is not worth real money. I guess there is some psychological tie to having a new set of car brakes for 40% off thinking of all the money they saved until next year when they need another set.
With the rising Chinese middle class and the distribution of real wealth to individuals that they might not even buy their own junk; they would probably have American or European stuff. Americans, at some point, will demand better products...most Americans. There will likely be a consistent group that will gobble up 40% off of crap goods so they can use the money saved to buy more crap goods. Of course, all these cheap goods are worthless in a short while because they are broken so they go out and buy more cheap stuff @ 40% off and they can use the money they save to buy more cheap crap so they can have more stuff.
The point is that it would not be hard to make a case for US made goods to make a comeback, at some point folks will realize that cheap crap is just that...cheap crap that does not do justice to the work you put in to get a pay check so you can take care of your family. It is much better to pay full price for the real thing than it is to get 40% off of junk and have the real thing last for a life time. It's like buying a nice $20 lib for 40% off...and then you act suprised when you realize it is not real.
mhammerman, I agree with your sentiments, but I don't think anything will change anytime soon. For most products there is a cheap version and a quality version, and most people know it. Sometimes buying the cheap product is worth it, sometimes it isn't. For example, Harbor Freight (aka China Freight) sells cheap Chinese tools. But most of the tools I buy there are tools I'm going to use very rarely or just a handful of times (maybe even just once). For me, cheap tools and products have their time and place. It's not worth the extra money to have a quality products sit in my garage collecting dust vs. a quality one. In this case I'm glad the cheap version is available. Obviously it's a poor investment for a mechanic who would use the tools regularly. I don't think I'm a fool for buying cheap products when the situation calls for it.
The same goes for your brake example. If I'm about to sell a car but it needs new brakes first, I'll put the cheapest brakes on it because I'm not planning to use keep it. If I'm driving it for several more years, I'll spring for the better quality.
Bought a Cabrio Washer from Sears in 07. So far it has broken 3 times. Glad I got the 5 year extended warranty. The last repair with parts and labor came to over $1100. Without the warranty I would be out buying a new washer. And I doubt I would get one for the $250 the extended warranty cost me. I would say so far it costs Sears about $2200 in parts and labor from all 3 repairs, though I am sure their acutual costs are lower. If everyone bought a warranty they could not stay in business. Washers these days are not made to last like in the 70s when they lasted 15 or more years because they had a lot less BS extras on them.
I can't speak for consumer goods, but in the vast majority of cases in the automotive world, the supplier gets hit with a good sized chunk of any warranty claims if it is due to a lack of (whatever) on their part. It is in their best interest to ship high quality.
I could relate the same story to a 1986 Pontiac I bought brand new - one intake manifold, one clutch, one turbo and one engine, all on Pontiac's dime. Three different episodes.
<< <i>Where lots of revenues and jobs are going and not-a-comin-back >>
Are going? That implies that it is still going on. How about long gone!? . >>
I don't think so. Unfortunately I don't think this even hit it's stride yet. It amazes me the junk that gets sold here. Junk. Crap. My Wife bought me a new hp laptop so I could watch youtube on the big screen ( least that's the plan ) I don't think I used it more than half a dozen times and it blew a mother board. Out of any warranty the computer guy shrugged and told me we don't make computers in the US and in this case he had to order the mother board from china! If this computer was important to me I'd be a prisoner, and anyone else who owns one will be a prisoner to whatever time it takes to receive the part from 10,000 miles away and to whatever quality they decide to build into these things knowing full well there's no response to junk in other areas so why not send more of it in this one?
Nah, not even up on full plane yet. >>
If the Chinese ever cut off our credit we'll all be destitute in six months because everything they've sold us for years is unmitigated crap and will all need to be replaced in that time. Nothing lasts at all and people won't complain. Not that our products are any better. It seems that companies are more concerned with providing less value than expected than making a profit.
We convert raw materials and energy into CO2 and landfill at a faster and faster pace.
Until we start demanding quality nothing can improve.
Been thinking on that issue. At some point, folks will have to get tired of buying their cheap tools, cheap toys, cheap clothing, cheap shoes...cheap as in crap that is not worth real money. I guess there is some psychological tie to having a new set of car brakes for 40% off thinking of all the money they saved until next year when they need another set.
With the rising Chinese middle class and the distribution of real wealth to individuals that they might not even buy their own junk; they would probably have American or European stuff. Americans, at some point, will demand better products...most Americans. There will likely be a consistent group that will gobble up 40% off of crap goods so they can use the money saved to buy more crap goods. Of course, all these cheap goods are worthless in a short while because they are broken so they go out and buy more cheap stuff @ 40% off and they can use the money they save to buy more cheap crap so they can have more stuff.
The point is that it would not be hard to make a case for US made goods to make a comeback, at some point folks will realize that cheap crap is just that...cheap crap that does not do justice to the work you put in to get a pay check so you can take care of your family. It is much better to pay full price for the real thing than it is to get 40% off of junk and have the real thing last for a life time. It's like buying a nice $20 lib for 40% off...and then you act suprised when you realize it is not real.
A fool and their money are soon parted. >>
Belts used to last for decades and decades. Oh sure, they only looked good for ten or twelve years and then you had to start using them with work clothes or more casusal wear but they simply worked and never wore out really. I bought a new belt once a decade.
Now you buy a belt and it will crack the first time you put it on. It will break in two pices within a year and won't be suitable for use with a suit and tie in six months.
This isn't really the Chinese doing this but American retailers and manufacturers. People won't take garbage back to the store so they just keep pumping it out. Ameriocan business is on a race to the bottom to get the golden parachutes to deploy. It seems to become a game to see how much garbafe they can foist on people before they complain. "Fish" is more than half water. Ketchup separates and soaks the bread. Bridges groan under the weight of water being sold as porterhouse steak now. And one of the many things you can't find with google is any information on sodium tripolyphosphate production.
food grade Sodium Tyipolyphosphate 2 Similar from this Supplier This product is white granular or powder, the product quality conforms to GB1034-91, content> 96%, low prices, fast delivery.... Type: Sodium Tripolyphosphate Min. Order: 20 TonsFOB Price: US $680-700 / Ton
<< <i>mhammerman, I agree with your sentiments, but I don't think anything will change anytime soon. For most products there is a cheap version and a quality version, and most people know it. Sometimes buying the cheap product is worth it, sometimes it isn't. For example, Harbor Freight (aka China Freight) sells cheap Chinese tools. But most of the tools I buy there are tools I'm going to use very rarely or just a handful of times (maybe even just once). For me, cheap tools and products have their time and place. It's not worth the extra money to have a quality products sit in my garage collecting dust vs. a quality one. In this case I'm glad the cheap version is available. Obviously it's a poor investment for a mechanic who would use the tools regularly. I don't think I'm a fool for buying cheap products when the situation calls for it.
The same goes for your brake example. If I'm about to sell a car but it needs new brakes first, I'll put the cheapest brakes on it because I'm not planning to use keep it. If I'm driving it for several more years, I'll spring for the better quality. >>
I disagree.
Cheap crap should be illegal and the CEO's who pass it off should be in jail. It requires just as much resources to produce and ship garbage as it does quality. Some products are getting almost impossible to find that aren't garbage and you can't tell good from junk until you buy it.
The factories might as well just dump their products straight into landfill and profit with government subsidies the way things are now.
<< <i>Bought a Cabrio Washer from Sears in 07. So far it has broken 3 times. Glad I got the 5 year extended warranty. The last repair with parts and labor came to over $1100. Without the warranty I would be out buying a new washer. And I doubt I would get one for the $250 the extended warranty cost me. I would say so far it costs Sears about $2200 in parts and labor from all 3 repairs, though I am sure their acutual costs are lower. If everyone bought a warranty they could not stay in business. Washers these days are not made to last like in the 70s when they lasted 15 or more years because they had a lot less BS extras on them. >>
My understanding is most of the lawn tractors being shipped now comes with at least one tire that won't stay inflated. I'm told that you just toss these in the garbage when they break and that will only take three or four years. Cost of repairs is prohibitive and they'll just break again as soon as you fix it.
Sears came out to fix my flat a few times. It cost an more than an hour on the phone with them griping. They got it fixed the last time though.
Re:Now you buy a belt and it will crack the first time you put it on. It will break in two pices within a year and other stories,
sounds like you fellas got ahold of some lemons... no wonder you are so pessimistic. Everyone gets a loser product once in a while but is it really that bad with the majority of the stuff you buy?
Consider changing stores and/or brands if you're dissatisified with goods and services. Or start your own company offering the better good or service.
edited to add: I bought a leather belt in Bolivia for the equivalent of $3 in 2003, have worn it nearly every day since and it only gets better each use... it could last forever (but I might need to punch a new hole again in a few years, for maximum comfort )
"Thank you for the economics lesson" Chris intones, rather reluctantly, after attmepting to derail Ron's message; yet, Ron stays on point, ever the protagonist.
An interview nearly absent of politics and rhetoric: how long can he last?? How long can America last without his train of thought? Will it matter? I remain stumped.
Or start your own company offering the better good or service.
I'm beginning to like Baleyville more every day...
I don't see it happening - then we would have to read about all these people going BK in a few/several months because they can't turn a profit, no one is buying their stuff, etc.
<< <i>Re:Now you buy a belt and it will crack the first time you put it on. It will break in two pices within a year and other stories,
sounds like you fellas got ahold of some lemons... no wonder you are so pessimistic. Everyone gets a loser product once in a while but is it really that bad with the majority of the stuff you buy?
Consider changing stores and/or brands if you're dissatisified with goods and services. Or start your own company offering the better good or service.
edited to add: I bought a leather belt in Bolivia for the equivalent of $3 in 2003, have worn it nearly every day since and it only gets better each use... it could last forever (but I might need to punch a new hole again in a few years, for maximum comfort ) >>
The belts were made by one of the most famous designers in America (or at least sold by them). They were a gift from a friend who heard me complain and said I should buy quality. I'm sure they cost more but they were junk.
Starting your own company sounds like a plan except that it's illegal. Try to go into com- petition with any major manufacturer and you will be legislated and enforced right out of business. If you can afford more politicians it won't help because your competition will give belts away before they let you get started.
Most leather tanning processes are illegal now so production has shifted to China where they make junk and polute at will. I wonder how much the 50 "enviromentally friendly" belts polute the enviroment that could have been eliminated with one belt made properly.
Manufacturers could design a fine tractor that would cost $1000 but then they take a penny's worth of value from here and a nickel from there until it's a $950 tractor that won't last a year. But this is their desire; to provide less value than you think you're getting. They take good meat that they could sell for $1.50 and have satisfied customers and add 50% water and sell it for 75c. It's not as much about making more money as providing less value.
Of course I'm always trying to adapt. I'm considering suspenders for example.
Most leather tanning processes are illegal now so production has shifted to China where
It's not just leather, your same point applies to MANY of the things we use every day.
It's all part of the NIMBY campaign. We don't want to make them here and contaminate our backyard, so go pi$$ in someone else's.
And then fuel costs go up, those damn workers can't get by on $0.26 per day and want more. Money has to come from somewhere, and voila! It's either that, or raise prices to cover increased costs. A vicious circle indeed.
There is a very simple solution for this. Vote with your feet and stop buying cheap big box grocery store tomatos and apples. The tomatos and apples are picked green, gassed for color and shipped in refrigerated trucks to a big warehouse and then shipped to the grocer, all before they have naturally ripened or reached full flavor; you're right, you're eating cardboard and you can do better if you will just put a minimal effort into it. The best thing you can do is locate a farmers market near by, there's one in every urban community and in the country, they are everywhere. This is a great place to locate local, wholesome, flavorful fruit and vegetables and by buying there, you encourage the production and give a farmer sustenance as well as any employees they might use to man the store.
The meat you buy can be easily had from a local meat market where they buy the cattle live, slaughter it, prepare the meat in a sanitary way and package it individually. If you make an order for a quarter of a cow or so, you can get the exact pieces you want and a spare refrigerator or small freezer is all you need to have wholesome, fresh, nutritious meat and for a very competitive price. There is little excuse for eating "processed" meat. It would be very interesting to see what is actually in the meat, say do a gas chromatographic study of what exactly is in there to make it so red and fresh looking well after it has been slaughtered. Old meat is supposed to turn brown...not be a bright pink. And of course, you have all the nice pesticides and growth hormones that you don't even have to pay extra for...what's not to like? The meat you buy in the grocery is little more than a chemically adultrated food like product.
The only objections I can think of to buying outside of a big box grocery is: "I don't know where it came from." Well if you buy from a local grower, you have a lot more of an idea of where it came from then if you are buying Guatamalan cucumbers from a big box in Detroit. "I don't know if the meat is safe"...if you're buying it in a big box, it may not make you sick as soon as you eat it but your body will likely be saturated with the same steroids and preservatives and God know what else that the producers have put in the cow before they slaughter it.
The only way to end the madness is to simply not be one of the mullets that slurp up to the soylent green dispensary.
Rant over...please return to your regularly scheduled programming.
<< <i>It would be very interesting to see what is actually in the meat, say do a gas chromatographic study of what exactly is in there to make it so red and fresh looking well after it has been slaughtered. Old meat is supposed to turn brown...not be a bright pink. And of course, you have all the nice pesticides and growth hormones that you don't even have to pay extra for...what's not to like? The meat you buy in the grocery is little more than a chemically adultrated food like product. >>
Sodium tripolyphosphate is added ONLY to rip off the consumer and assure a bigger bonus for the CEO. It is assumed to be safe but has never been studied scientifically. Sodium nitrite is a deadly poison used to keep meat red. This, too, has never been scientifically studied and was simply grandfathered in. Despite being deadly poison it is not cumulative and quickly washes out of the body leaving no known permanent damage. It's so poisonous that it might not be impossible to get a deadly dosage from food but no such cases have been reported. It breaks down into carcinogenic chemicals when cooked to long. Bacon is especially prone to this process. All pro- cessed meats contain sodium nitrite or sodium nitrate which has very similar proper- ties.
Sodium tripolyphosphate has no known preservative effect or any other effect than to cause things to absorb vast amounts of water. It ruins fish turning it to a sort of slush even before cooking.
We paid $3.99/lb tonight for "ugly" tomatoes and the seeds were hard to chew on. I'm sorry I don't remember ever having many seeds in tomatoes and even if they were there , there was nothing noticeable when chewing.
JOBS, the call is out...people want JOBS! But wait, to have jobs, there has to be work that begs for someone to task it and THEN we have a job. When there is lots of work, there will be lots of jobs. There is not a lot of work right now. We have visited this topic in peripherial ways before on this thread but the obvious seems to be escaping the "laser like focus on jobs"; there has to be work.
Well, there was work, we had three people in the office where now there is one. I know this for a fact because I do have a job that was once a job for two people. No raise in pay, no expansion of benefits, no incentives for doing twice the work as before, no COLA, no nothing but twice the work with twice the problems with twice the deadlines and twice the crisis management but I do have a job and my experience is the same experience everywhere in the US of the currently employeed.
That surviving persons responsibilities have expanded, their skills have evolved to make their employment effective for the employer, and that person has a job; the two people that were let go do not. The reason they do not is because their skills were not effective enough to be of substantial benefit to the employeer and they were let go is because their employeer didn't want to pay for the benefits package that the ex-employees were hired under, and the death knell, the bottom line...there isn't too much work. Business is not expanding across the sectors, there are pips of bright spots but nothing that could be construed to be an across the board growth in work, not even a 1% growth in work that would require hiring of more employees and therefore more JOBS.
While the unemployment rate for some sectors/demographics of the economy are pushing 20%, the broad unemployment rate is reported as 9%+ the actual or real unemployment rate is likely hovering around 20% or two in ten; in the great depression, unemployment was just a few ticks above 20% at 24%. The reason there was such high unemployment during the depression is that there wasn't work. People still yelled for jobs but there was no work, nothing that needed employees and no money to pay them anyway. If you ask any of those depression survivors what brought the country out of depression the simple answer is that there was work, there were jobs. When there is work, there are jobs.
There are a number of sides to the jobs equation and unemployment. Those that wish employment are not just looking for employment, they want jobs that have health insurance, 401K, vacation days, and sick time, what have been called "good jobs". It may seem like a bold assertion but I would postulate that there is not a newspaper in any town of any size that does not have a fair number of jobs posted in the employment section of the newspaper yet they go begging while those in line at the job fairs stretch for blocks. Why is there such a disconnect? Is it that the 99 weeks of unemployment pays better and when you add food stamps and welfare to the unemployment benefits, you can actually get by a lot better than if you're stocking parts at the warehouse for a weekly check; a job with few or no benefits...kind of a no brainer why the jobs go begging. If you do one of the McDonalds jobs, you get some benefits to go with your near minimum wage after your internship so that's actually a step up from the cable installer guy that if he doesn't work, he doesn't get a paycheck (except for the union ones). There are many jobs available for those that want to work but employeers are not anxious to offer any benefits along with the work...there's still plenty of work but it may not be a particularly "good job".
So, when we hear the rousing retoric about getting everyone back to work again, there has to be at least a passing acknowledgement that there has to be something to do, there has to be a significant growth in the GDP, a large expansion in the business growth of companies and corporations, and there has to be a significant profit to be had for hiring employees to do the work. When those things happen, then there will be good jobs. A one or two percent growth isn't going to solve any problems, the growth rate needs to be on the 8% level or so at a minimum...never forget the significance of the rule of 8's.
Point of the diatribe is that at some point folks will have to acknowledge that we will have to undertake some significant WPA, CCC like projects to repair our quickly aging infrastructure, our bridges, roads, power grid, water/sanitation facilities...the list goes on for a ways such as dredging harbors used for commerce, cleaning up pollution from mining, reforestation of fire scorched lands, the list goes on for a ways. The Big O said that infrastructure development was one of his highest priorities when he came into power but nothing happened. Then there was the big "Shovel Ready" speech that later was redacted as "...not quite as shovel ready as I had thought." Now we are at the nexus again. With all the money we were going to use for public infrastructure since given to the banksters so they could keep their properties in Costa and be assured of their 7 digit bonuses, we are broke, with no money to fix our foundation, the plumbing is leaking and the windows won't shut...our house is in disrepar and we are broke. If the gov can realize that the only solution is to stop pissing away our future debt to keep the TBTF's, the GM's and the all financial fraternity afloat and start rebuilding our foundation...creating meaningful work, then we can begin to turn this nosedive back up. The financial fraternity is not about making jobs, they are about making money so let's put our money where the need is, WORK projects...then we will have jobs. Until then, gold at US $2000 looks like a gimme.
to create those jobs you will need investment in capital projects which usually involves borrowing. that borrowing is still way too tight or non existent
infrastrucure programs may not be the best way to go but it's still a positive direction, IMHO and yes that would involve defecit spending. it would take Congress too long to work it into a BBA.
we have Buffett dumping $5 billion into the black hole of America (he was forced to sell his silver, remember?)
RR post recently in the suing bank thread is worth a glance, too
To create jobs you need to have a business-friendly environment. I've said since the day O was elected that we were going to see one of the most hostile business environments ever, and that is exactly what we got, and that's exactly what he continues to promote. Why is anyone surprised? And in a lot of cases - especially in California - your state and local governments have and continue to make it VERY difficult to and expensive to do business. If you want more jobs, you have to create an environment that welcomes business investment and expansion.
Comments
Jim Rogers - Ron Paul for president
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>Because im on a mission.
Just kidding. But in talking with a friend at a large law firm who just told me his firms insurance premiums dropped, i decided to look for other examples. >>
That would be nice. When I was shopping for insurance in 2009 Aetna wasn't as competitive with Connecticare. Connecticare put in an across the board 20% increase
this January. Maybe I'll look at switching to Aetna as the year progresses because in a couple of years my health care plan will be a mortgage payment. Another variable
is how fussy each insurer is with pre-existing conditions of any note. Some won't touch you if you have any negative history at all. In that case I ask, why would such a person
need insurance if they've been in perfect health for 50 years at negligible cost to the insurer. Just checked Aetna's plan and their comparable plan to mine is 13% cheaper.
A year ago Aetna's was more expensive. My insurer seems to be headed in the wrong direction...lol.
roadrunner
Stunned? Im stunned that they are stunned.
What did they expect when they pushed the Euro to stupid high levels? Wait till we see the Swiss econ numbers.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Box of 20
<< <i>I like how CNBC stated all losses from last week have been recovered. They don't mention that the DOW was at 12,500 and that it is still down 1000 points. >>
Short term revisionist history. We'll soon hear that we are better off than 2008.
Pentagon Unable to Account for “Trillions,”
Oh, smoe numbers many might not be aware of. So this is the new rome eh?
The Worldwide Network of US Military Bases
It's dated and probably LESS then what todays costs are. Imagine that.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Metals Expert Fuljenz: Gold To Surge Up To 30%
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Coming to a town near you....VAT >>
"If there's a better way, we'd love to hear about it."
What a crock and scam on the people!! How about balancing the budget and stop wasting the people's money (and time)?!
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
I would bet what's in my wallet that if this guy were in there would be an instantanous interest in all things American around the world, the dollar would find real support as the world would know that maybe for the 1st time in over 100 years a founding father type is in command, the reckless spending would be targeted for termination, taxes would be slashed which would create a FRIENDLY atmosphere for business to manufacture and everything else that's attached to it and we would see a new day of prosperity that would become the envy of the world.
No doubt in my mind.
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Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>How long can the off-book $600 trillion in derivatives float? And "avoid (the US from) another race to the bottom around the world" according to Geithner. This guy is really smoething. >>
It can continue to float as long as interest rates stay right where they are.....low. And to ensure that is the case, the big US banks have been adding $10-$20 TRILL in interest rate
swaps per year to keep the status quo. Rates stay low and these can be continually kicked down the road on someone else's watch. But as our economy has shown, there is a
heavy price to pay for artificially induced low interest rates. Nothing gets fixed and things only continue to spiral down. And the flip side is they can't raise rates to make the dollar
competitive w/o self-destructing that $600 TRILL derivatives pile. Catch 22.
roadrunner
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Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
India Call Centers - Part 1
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Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
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<< <i>Where lots of revenues and jobs are going and not-a-comin-back >>
Are going? That implies that it is still going on. How about long gone!? All of those jobs were sent over many years ago. I won't fly United because they are 100% outsourced call centers. At the company I work for here, they bring the workers from India in and have them stay many months at a time rather than hire permanent American engineers. But the burden rate for them when they are here in the US is all accounting trickery. All of the company's overhead and executive salaries and bureaucracy get factored into the American rates, but the Indians are accounted for like they are from a staffing company which has minimal overhead and layers of management.
If you do look though, there are a few reports of some companies that are closing overseas operations and bringing them back. It's not working for all products and industries. Unfortunately though many companies still have the same management that was responsible for making the move, and they are not about to admit their mistake and reverse the decision, even if it is the profitable and logical thing to do.
Companies don't care if the customer is frustrated, they just care about providing the customer with sevice (even the sh&tty kind)
and of course, the bottom line
The best thing that could have been done in our horrible economic condition - is to pull all H1B Visa's - you cannot convince me that we can't train Americans to handle Tech jobs.......
It's all about the $$$, that's it, the company saves bucks and has a "captive" employee (H1B sponsored employee) -
<< <i>The best thing that could have been done in our horrible economic condition - is to pull all H1B Visa's - you cannot convince me that we can't train Americans to handle Tech jobs.......
It's all about the $$$, that's it, the company saves bucks and has a "captive" employee (H1B sponsored employee) - >>
That's one of the biggest myths that's been allowed to perpetuate and for some reason has gone uncontested (that companies can't find the talent). The rality is that when companies say they "can't find the talent they are looking for here" what the really mean is that they "can't find the talent they are looking for here at the price we want to pay. The reality is that the talent doesn't/didn't exist in India or other countries either. You really think they have loads of experienced aerospace/microprocessor/you-name-it engineers just looking for jobs? Of course not, because until recently they didn't have the industries to provide that experience. All they had was new grads who they could hire at a ratio of 5:1 Americans.
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Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>
<< <i>Where lots of revenues and jobs are going and not-a-comin-back >>
Are going? That implies that it is still going on. How about long gone!? . >>
I don't think so. Unfortunately I don't think this even hit it's stride yet. It amazes me the junk that gets sold here. Junk. Crap. My Wife bought me a new hp laptop so I could watch youtube on the big screen ( least that's the plan ) I don't think I used it more than half a dozen times and it blew a mother board. Out of any warranty the computer guy shrugged and told me we don't make computers in the US and in this case he had to order the mother board from china! If this computer was important to me I'd be a prisoner, and anyone else who owns one will be a prisoner to whatever time it takes to receive the part from 10,000 miles away and to whatever quality they decide to build into these things knowing full well there's no response to junk in other areas so why not send more of it in this one?
Nah, not even up on full plane yet.
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Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Come on Dunkin, follow suit.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Been thinking on that issue. At some point, folks will have to get tired of buying their cheap tools, cheap toys, cheap clothing, cheap shoes...cheap as in crap that is not worth real money. I guess there is some psychological tie to having a new set of car brakes for 40% off thinking of all the money they saved until next year when they need another set.
With the rising Chinese middle class and the distribution of real wealth to individuals that they might not even buy their own junk; they would probably have American or European stuff. Americans, at some point, will demand better products...most Americans. There will likely be a consistent group that will gobble up 40% off of crap goods so they can use the money saved to buy more crap goods. Of course, all these cheap goods are worthless in a short while because they are broken so they go out and buy more cheap stuff @ 40% off and they can use the money they save to buy more cheap crap so they can have more stuff.
The point is that it would not be hard to make a case for US made goods to make a comeback, at some point folks will realize that cheap crap is just that...cheap crap that does not do justice to the work you put in to get a pay check so you can take care of your family. It is much better to pay full price for the real thing than it is to get 40% off of junk and have the real thing last for a life time. It's like buying a nice $20 lib for 40% off...and then you act suprised when you realize it is not real.
A fool and their money are soon parted.
The same goes for your brake example. If I'm about to sell a car but it needs new brakes first, I'll put the cheapest brakes on it because I'm not planning to use keep it. If I'm driving it for several more years, I'll spring for the better quality.
Box of 20
I could relate the same story to a 1986 Pontiac I bought brand new - one intake manifold, one clutch, one turbo and one engine, all on Pontiac's dime. Three different episodes.
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
<< <i>still using a rotary dial telephone, for over 35 years now.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ( trying to think how I can top that ) hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Ron Paul On Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace 8/28/2011
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Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Where lots of revenues and jobs are going and not-a-comin-back >>
Are going? That implies that it is still going on. How about long gone!? . >>
I don't think so. Unfortunately I don't think this even hit it's stride yet. It amazes me the junk that gets sold here. Junk. Crap. My Wife bought me a new hp laptop so I could watch youtube on the big screen ( least that's the plan ) I don't think I used it more than half a dozen times and it blew a mother board. Out of any warranty the computer guy shrugged and told me we don't make computers in the US and in this case he had to order the mother board from china! If this computer was important to me I'd be a prisoner, and anyone else who owns one will be a prisoner to whatever time it takes to receive the part from 10,000 miles away and to whatever quality they decide to build into these things knowing full well there's no response to junk in other areas so why not send more of it in this one?
Nah, not even up on full plane yet. >>
If the Chinese ever cut off our credit we'll all be destitute in six months because everything they've
sold us for years is unmitigated crap and will all need to be replaced in that time. Nothing lasts at
all and people won't complain. Not that our products are any better. It seems that companies are
more concerned with providing less value than expected than making a profit.
We convert raw materials and energy into CO2 and landfill at a faster and faster pace.
Until we start demanding quality nothing can improve.
<< <i>"It amazes me the junk that gets sold here.
Been thinking on that issue. At some point, folks will have to get tired of buying their cheap tools, cheap toys, cheap clothing, cheap shoes...cheap as in crap that is not worth real money. I guess there is some psychological tie to having a new set of car brakes for 40% off thinking of all the money they saved until next year when they need another set.
With the rising Chinese middle class and the distribution of real wealth to individuals that they might not even buy their own junk; they would probably have American or European stuff. Americans, at some point, will demand better products...most Americans. There will likely be a consistent group that will gobble up 40% off of crap goods so they can use the money saved to buy more crap goods. Of course, all these cheap goods are worthless in a short while because they are broken so they go out and buy more cheap stuff @ 40% off and they can use the money they save to buy more cheap crap so they can have more stuff.
The point is that it would not be hard to make a case for US made goods to make a comeback, at some point folks will realize that cheap crap is just that...cheap crap that does not do justice to the work you put in to get a pay check so you can take care of your family. It is much better to pay full price for the real thing than it is to get 40% off of junk and have the real thing last for a life time. It's like buying a nice $20 lib for 40% off...and then you act suprised when you realize it is not real.
A fool and their money are soon parted. >>
Belts used to last for decades and decades. Oh sure, they only looked good for ten or twelve years and
then you had to start using them with work clothes or more casusal wear but they simply worked and never
wore out really. I bought a new belt once a decade.
Now you buy a belt and it will crack the first time you put it on. It will break in two pices within a year and
won't be suitable for use with a suit and tie in six months.
This isn't really the Chinese doing this but American retailers and manufacturers. People won't take garbage
back to the store so they just keep pumping it out. Ameriocan business is on a race to the bottom to get
the golden parachutes to deploy. It seems to become a game to see how much garbafe they can foist on
people before they complain. "Fish" is more than half water. Ketchup separates and soaks the bread.
Bridges groan under the weight of water being sold as porterhouse steak now. And one of the many
things you can't find with google is any information on sodium tripolyphosphate production.
This product is white granular or powder, the product quality conforms to GB1034-91, content> 96%, low prices, fast delivery....
Type: Sodium Tripolyphosphate
Min. Order: 20 TonsFOB Price: US $680-700 / Ton
http://www.alibaba.com/products/sodium_tripolyphosphate_production/--------------100002036-352586.html
Note the minimum order is 20 tons. This is enough to adulterate almost all the steers in Kansas.
They'll weight 5% more after sucking this stuff up. Pigs are as much as 50% water now and fish is worse.
I'd love to see a world STTP production graph overlaid on child obesity graph.
I wonder what the other 4% is.
<< <i>mhammerman, I agree with your sentiments, but I don't think anything will change anytime soon. For most products there is a cheap version and a quality version, and most people know it. Sometimes buying the cheap product is worth it, sometimes it isn't. For example, Harbor Freight (aka China Freight) sells cheap Chinese tools. But most of the tools I buy there are tools I'm going to use very rarely or just a handful of times (maybe even just once). For me, cheap tools and products have their time and place. It's not worth the extra money to have a quality products sit in my garage collecting dust vs. a quality one. In this case I'm glad the cheap version is available. Obviously it's a poor investment for a mechanic who would use the tools regularly. I don't think I'm a fool for buying cheap products when the situation calls for it.
The same goes for your brake example. If I'm about to sell a car but it needs new brakes first, I'll put the cheapest brakes on it because I'm not planning to use keep it. If I'm driving it for several more years, I'll spring for the better quality. >>
I disagree.
Cheap crap should be illegal and the CEO's who pass it off should be in jail. It requires
just as much resources to produce and ship garbage as it does quality. Some products
are getting almost impossible to find that aren't garbage and you can't tell good from junk
until you buy it.
The factories might as well just dump their products straight into landfill and profit with
government subsidies the way things are now.
<< <i>Bought a Cabrio Washer from Sears in 07. So far it has broken 3 times. Glad I got the 5 year extended warranty. The last repair with parts and labor came to over $1100. Without the warranty I would be out buying a new washer. And I doubt I would get one for the $250 the extended warranty cost me. I would say so far it costs Sears about $2200 in parts and labor from all 3 repairs, though I am sure their acutual costs are lower. If everyone bought a warranty they could not stay in business. Washers these days are not made to last like in the 70s when they lasted 15 or more years because they had a lot less BS extras on them. >>
My understanding is most of the lawn tractors being shipped now comes with at least
one tire that won't stay inflated. I'm told that you just toss these in the garbage when
they break and that will only take three or four years. Cost of repairs is prohibitive and
they'll just break again as soon as you fix it.
Sears came out to fix my flat a few times. It cost an more than an hour on the phone
with them griping. They got it fixed the last time though.
sounds like you fellas got ahold of some lemons... no wonder you are so pessimistic. Everyone gets a loser product once in a while but is it really that bad with the majority of the stuff you buy?
Consider changing stores and/or brands if you're dissatisified with goods and services. Or start your own company offering the better good or service.
edited to add: I bought a leather belt in Bolivia for the equivalent of $3 in 2003, have worn it nearly every day since and it only gets better each use... it could last forever
(but I might need to punch a new hole again in a few years, for maximum comfort
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Excellent interview particularly on money issues
Ron Paul On Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace 8/28/2011 >>
"Thank you for the economics lesson" Chris intones, rather reluctantly, after attmepting to derail Ron's message; yet, Ron stays on point, ever the protagonist.
An interview nearly absent of politics and rhetoric: how long can he last?? How long can America last without his train of thought? Will it matter? I remain stumped.
Miles
I'm beginning to like Baleyville more every day...
I don't see it happening - then we would have to read about all these people going BK in a few/several months because they can't turn a profit, no one is buying their stuff, etc.
<< <i>Re:Now you buy a belt and it will crack the first time you put it on. It will break in two pices within a year and other stories,
sounds like you fellas got ahold of some lemons... no wonder you are so pessimistic. Everyone gets a loser product once in a while but is it really that bad with the majority of the stuff you buy?
Consider changing stores and/or brands if you're dissatisified with goods and services. Or start your own company offering the better good or service.
edited to add: I bought a leather belt in Bolivia for the equivalent of $3 in 2003, have worn it nearly every day since and it only gets better each use... it could last forever
(but I might need to punch a new hole again in a few years, for maximum comfort
The belts were made by one of the most famous designers in America (or at least sold
by them). They were a gift from a friend who heard me complain and said I should buy
quality. I'm sure they cost more but they were junk.
Starting your own company sounds like a plan except that it's illegal. Try to go into com-
petition with any major manufacturer and you will be legislated and enforced right out of
business. If you can afford more politicians it won't help because your competition will
give belts away before they let you get started.
Most leather tanning processes are illegal now so production has shifted to China where
they make junk and polute at will. I wonder how much the 50 "enviromentally friendly" belts
polute the enviroment that could have been eliminated with one belt made properly.
Manufacturers could design a fine tractor that would cost $1000 but then they take a penny's
worth of value from here and a nickel from there until it's a $950 tractor that won't last a year.
But this is their desire; to provide less value than you think you're getting. They take good
meat that they could sell for $1.50 and have satisfied customers and add 50% water and
sell it for 75c. It's not as much about making more money as providing less value.
Of course I'm always trying to adapt. I'm considering suspenders for example.
It's not just leather, your same point applies to MANY of the things we use every day.
It's all part of the NIMBY campaign. We don't want to make them here and contaminate our backyard, so go pi$$ in someone else's.
And then fuel costs go up, those damn workers can't get by on $0.26 per day and want more. Money has to come from somewhere, and voila! It's either that, or raise prices to cover increased costs. A vicious circle indeed.
<< <i>I just wish someone could tell me what happened to the tomato. They were so tasty in the 50's. jws >>
I can't even eat Washington apples any more. They have the consistency and taste of cardboard.
<< <i>
<< <i>I just wish someone could tell me what happened to the tomato. They were so tasty in the 50's. jws >>
I can't even eat Washington apples any more. They have the consistency and taste of cardboard. >>
Grow them yourself and the flavor will return
The meat you buy can be easily had from a local meat market where they buy the cattle live, slaughter it, prepare the meat in a sanitary way and package it individually. If you make an order for a quarter of a cow or so, you can get the exact pieces you want and a spare refrigerator or small freezer is all you need to have wholesome, fresh, nutritious meat and for a very competitive price. There is little excuse for eating "processed" meat. It would be very interesting to see what is actually in the meat, say do a gas chromatographic study of what exactly is in there to make it so red and fresh looking well after it has been slaughtered. Old meat is supposed to turn brown...not be a bright pink. And of course, you have all the nice pesticides and growth hormones that you don't even have to pay extra for...what's not to like? The meat you buy in the grocery is little more than a chemically adultrated food like product.
The only objections I can think of to buying outside of a big box grocery is: "I don't know where it came from." Well if you buy from a local grower, you have a lot more of an idea of where it came from then if you are buying Guatamalan cucumbers from a big box in Detroit. "I don't know if the meat is safe"...if you're buying it in a big box, it may not make you sick as soon as you eat it but your body will likely be saturated with the same steroids and preservatives and God know what else that the producers have put in the cow before they slaughter it.
The only way to end the madness is to simply not be one of the mullets that slurp up to the soylent green dispensary.
Rant over...please return to your regularly scheduled programming.
<< <i>It would be very interesting to see what is actually in the meat, say do a gas chromatographic study of what exactly is in there to make it so red and fresh looking well after it has been slaughtered. Old meat is supposed to turn brown...not be a bright pink. And of course, you have all the nice pesticides and growth hormones that you don't even have to pay extra for...what's not to like? The meat you buy in the grocery is little more than a chemically adultrated food like product.
>>
Sodium tripolyphosphate is added ONLY to rip off the consumer and assure a bigger
bonus for the CEO. It is assumed to be safe but has never been studied scientifically.
Sodium nitrite is a deadly poison used to keep meat red. This, too, has never been
scientifically studied and was simply grandfathered in. Despite being deadly poison
it is not cumulative and quickly washes out of the body leaving no known permanent
damage. It's so poisonous that it might not be impossible to get a deadly dosage
from food but no such cases have been reported. It breaks down into carcinogenic
chemicals when cooked to long. Bacon is especially prone to this process. All pro-
cessed meats contain sodium nitrite or sodium nitrate which has very similar proper-
ties.
Sodium tripolyphosphate has no known preservative effect or any other effect than
to cause things to absorb vast amounts of water. It ruins fish turning it to a sort of
slush even before cooking.
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Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
The Case for $25,000 per Ounce Gold
Ya Think?
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Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
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Well, there was work, we had three people in the office where now there is one. I know this for a fact because I do have a job that was once a job for two people. No raise in pay, no expansion of benefits, no incentives for doing twice the work as before, no COLA, no nothing but twice the work with twice the problems with twice the deadlines and twice the crisis management but I do have a job and my experience is the same experience everywhere in the US of the currently employeed.
That surviving persons responsibilities have expanded, their skills have evolved to make their employment effective for the employer, and that person has a job; the two people that were let go do not. The reason they do not is because their skills were not effective enough to be of substantial benefit to the employeer and they were let go is because their employeer didn't want to pay for the benefits package that the ex-employees were hired under, and the death knell, the bottom line...there isn't too much work. Business is not expanding across the sectors, there are pips of bright spots but nothing that could be construed to be an across the board growth in work, not even a 1% growth in work that would require hiring of more employees and therefore more JOBS.
While the unemployment rate for some sectors/demographics of the economy are pushing 20%, the broad unemployment rate is reported as 9%+ the actual or real unemployment rate is likely hovering around 20% or two in ten; in the great depression, unemployment was just a few ticks above 20% at 24%. The reason there was such high unemployment during the depression is that there wasn't work. People still yelled for jobs but there was no work, nothing that needed employees and no money to pay them anyway. If you ask any of those depression survivors what brought the country out of depression the simple answer is that there was work, there were jobs. When there is work, there are jobs.
There are a number of sides to the jobs equation and unemployment. Those that wish employment are not just looking for employment, they want jobs that have health insurance, 401K, vacation days, and sick time, what have been called "good jobs". It may seem like a bold assertion but I would postulate that there is not a newspaper in any town of any size that does not have a fair number of jobs posted in the employment section of the newspaper yet they go begging while those in line at the job fairs stretch for blocks. Why is there such a disconnect? Is it that the 99 weeks of unemployment pays better and when you add food stamps and welfare to the unemployment benefits, you can actually get by a lot better than if you're stocking parts at the warehouse for a weekly check; a job with few or no benefits...kind of a no brainer why the jobs go begging. If you do one of the McDonalds jobs, you get some benefits to go with your near minimum wage after your internship so that's actually a step up from the cable installer guy that if he doesn't work, he doesn't get a paycheck (except for the union ones). There are many jobs available for those that want to work but employeers are not anxious to offer any benefits along with the work...there's still plenty of work but it may not be a particularly "good job".
So, when we hear the rousing retoric about getting everyone back to work again, there has to be at least a passing acknowledgement that there has to be something to do, there has to be a significant growth in the GDP, a large expansion in the business growth of companies and corporations, and there has to be a significant profit to be had for hiring employees to do the work. When those things happen, then there will be good jobs. A one or two percent growth isn't going to solve any problems, the growth rate needs to be on the 8% level or so at a minimum...never forget the significance of the rule of 8's.
Point of the diatribe is that at some point folks will have to acknowledge that we will have to undertake some significant WPA, CCC like projects to repair our quickly aging infrastructure, our bridges, roads, power grid, water/sanitation facilities...the list goes on for a ways such as dredging harbors used for commerce, cleaning up pollution from mining, reforestation of fire scorched lands, the list goes on for a ways. The Big O said that infrastructure development was one of his highest priorities when he came into power but nothing happened. Then there was the big "Shovel Ready" speech that later was redacted as "...not quite as shovel ready as I had thought." Now we are at the nexus again. With all the money we were going to use for public infrastructure since given to the banksters so they could keep their properties in Costa and be assured of their 7 digit bonuses, we are broke, with no money to fix our foundation, the plumbing is leaking and the windows won't shut...our house is in disrepar and we are broke. If the gov can realize that the only solution is to stop pissing away our future debt to keep the TBTF's, the GM's and the all financial fraternity afloat and start rebuilding our foundation...creating meaningful work, then we can begin to turn this nosedive back up. The financial fraternity is not about making jobs, they are about making money so let's put our money where the need is, WORK projects...then we will have jobs. Until then, gold at US $2000 looks like a gimme.
I knew it would happen.
infrastrucure programs may not be the best way to go but it's still a positive direction, IMHO and yes that would involve defecit spending. it would take Congress too long to work it into a BBA.
we have Buffett dumping $5 billion into the black hole of America (he was forced to sell his silver, remember?)
RR post recently in the suing bank thread is worth a glance, too
thanks for the post mhammerman
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
