So I had to appraise a "Rare Coin" today...

thecoinlook · February 11, 2011 2:49PM

A lady in her 60's had a super rare coin that her brother told her was worth thousands. She brought it out...
It was a GSA Box. I was thinking this could be good! Nope! 83-CC, Baggy as can be.
What to do? She wanted to know what it was worth. I told her that estimate was pretty high and she asked again what it was worth. I told her it was worth a max of $200.

She got offended, thinking I was trying to rob her. "Oh! I won't sell it for that!!".
I said "that's an appraisal value, I would pay less, and can sell you as many of those as you want at less than $200 a pop."
She didn't know what to say and I said "Sorry" as I walked out.

Should I have handled that any differently?
I didn't want to mention any price at all but she wanted it appraised.
She'll probably call somebody else in and get told the same thing.

AnkurJ · February 11, 2011 2:52PM

Sometimes the truth hurts. Nothing else you could have done.

stealer · February 11, 2011 2:53PM

<< I said "and can sell you as many of those as you want at less than $200 a pop."

Should I have handled that any differently?
>>

I think you could have said something more constructive than that, but just my 15 year old opinion..

metalmeister · February 11, 2011 2:53PM

Tell it like it is. I would have done the exact same thing.

thecoinlook · February 11, 2011 3:08PM

<< 

<< I said "and can sell you as many of those as you want at less than $200 a pop."

Should I have handled that any differently?
>>

I think you could have said something more constructive than that, but just my 15 year old opinion.. >>

Maybe I shouldn't have said that, but I threw that in because I wanted her to let her know I was not trying to con her out of anything, and really could get her more if she desired (although I was certain there was no desire).

She probably wouldn't have been happy with the price even on an 85-CC.

I can only hope she calls someone else to verify what I was saying.

Baley · February 11, 2011 3:23PM

that's always a good check on an appraisal, when the owner thinks their prize is priceless, tell them how many and how cheap can you offer them the same thing back to them.

you don't have to be snide about it in your tone or manner, but when offered with kindness, this is one of the best ways of letting the owner down easier.

it works best when you can produce the actual coins or at least show them completed ebay transactions, if a computer is nearby.

streeter · February 11, 2011 3:34PM

Ma'am, I buy these for $185 and sell them for $215. I have to pay the rent, lights and my kid likes to eat. Would you be interested in adding a couple to your collection. You can pick the ones that look the nicest.

RMLTM79 · February 11, 2011 3:39PM

<< 

<< I said "and can sell you as many of those as you want at less than $200 a pop."

Should I have handled that any differently?
>>

I think you could have said something more constructive than that, but just my 15 year old opinion.. >>

Not bad at all for a 15 year old.

Raybo · February 11, 2011 4:46PM

Say nothing and walk away.

Frankcoins · February 11, 2011 5:38PM

In such cases where they greatly overestimate the value of their coin, I always try to show them an equivalent coin that we sell. I urge them to get offers from other shops. I want them them to get the highest price for their coins, whether from me or someone else.

PerryHall · February 11, 2011 9:47PM

<< A lady in her 60's had a super rare coin that her brother told her was worth thousands. >>

Tell her to sell it to her brother.

PerryHall · February 11, 2011 9:51PM

I would have shown her a CDN/gray sheet and explain that this is a independently published price guide for U.S. coins.

keets · February 11, 2011 10:04PM

coins aren't much different than anything else with esablished value although most people just don't understand that simple fact. i think History has labeled Coin Dealers with a bad label which leads to suspicion, then all it takes is one bad experience to re-inforce the myth. sadly, there are just too many dealers who are unwilling to break the cycle due to greed.

i can't really see anything wrong with how you handled this situation.

kranky · February 11, 2011 10:55PM

When someone thinks you're trying to buy something too cheap, I think it's effective to point out what you sell the same item for.

If they think the item is worth $1000 and you say you'll pay $150, how can they still think you're trying to cheat them if you offer to sell them the same thing for $180 or so? I think that would get the point across very clearly.

AMRC · February 11, 2011 11:05PM

No critic here. Actually well done. What I do when I know the expectations are so far off, is to share with the person not what it is worth or my buy price, but what I sell them for or what they sell for on eBay. And I also keep their excitement up by saying something to the effect; "yes, that dollar coin is indeed very valuable considering it is worth 180 times it face value."

Remember, half of the reason they do not want to accept what your saying (other than dissapointment) is that they feel foolish. Never make anyone feel foolish as nothing is gained.

Two days ago a gentleman made an appointment to show me some Franklin Mint stuff. He had 8.1 A.S.W of Silver, and refused to accept there was not some type of premium. He was sure it was worth at least $500. I politely suggested he put it on eBay as he mentioned he has access. In this business this happens very often and it is important to learn as soon as you can how to handle it.

Rampage · February 11, 2011 11:09PM

Like someone else said, I would have shown examples of that exact same coin/date/GSA from the CDN, coin values, your inventory, eBay etc to show her its true worth. While it may be true she/you can sell as many as you want at less than $200, she obviously does not know that and should be shown, rather than told. Something else you could have done (and I have done in the past) is offered to sell her one for $175 (which is really the goiong rate anyway). That would definitely prove your point.

scotty1419 · February 11, 2011 11:12PM

The only other thing I would have done was to honestly ask what information she had to make her think it was worth so much more.

I think the "I can sell these to you for $x all day" is a helpful way of showing that you arent trying to rip someone off. I use this when I see wild pricing sometimes.

Greeniejr · February 11, 2011 11:19PM

That is a very good technique but some times people are either too stubborn, stupid or both to understand the implication of what you are saying. For every 1-2 times that technique works very well, you will get either the blank stare or the "I am not looking to buy I am looking to sell". Of course there are also the people who ask, "well why do you pay less than you sell them for"

roadrunner · February 11, 2011 11:24PM

The truth often hurts in coins. And frequently being the first to show up and the "bearer of bad news" is hard to shake off. That particular person may never contact you again even if they realize down the road you were right and were quite cordial in trying to get them to understand that. They'd much rather sell the item to the 6th person who tells them they'd pay $165 than to bring the "original bearer of bad news" back into the equation. Either it dredges up bad memories (ie the end of the "dream") or they don't want to look any more foolish than they might have already.

Funny how the market works at times. Many times it's better being the 2nd or 3rd person to show up than the 1st. The 1st guy cleared the debris away and built the foundation, the 2nd guy paves it and offers confirmation, while the 3rd guy drives up to the door and makes the sale.

I recall my first appraisal back in 1988 or so when an elderly guy just down the street from me had a pile of worn silver dollars. He had responded to my buy ad in a local flyer. I was the 1st on the scene and it turned out he bought all these at the peak around January 1980. When I offered him going rate which was considerably <$10 per coin he would have nothing to do with it. He was sure I was a crook. After all, why wouldn't a neighbor living 100 yds down the street try to rip him off? His asking price was $20 each. Well if the guy is still alive 23 yrs later he can finally cash out at a profit.

roadrunner

golden · February 12, 2011 12:01AM

The truth will set you free.

slipgate · February 12, 2011 12:11AM

Your bedside manor needs improvement. The truth hurts, but can be softened. Perhaps had you told her that many people assume just because a coin is old, that it is valuable. You could make it more believeable by telling her upfront that you don't need the coin and have no interest in buying it from her or something along those lines. Maybe tell her a story about Morgans, how they came into existence, and why they are not worth as much as other coins of the era.

RedTiger · February 12, 2011 12:30AM

I think it was handled relative well. Offering more items for sale is one of the more effective ways to show that the appraisal is accurate. Others have suggested showing more documentation, however, the blue sheet and blue book exist for that reason, to provide "documentation" for low ball offers.

If the woman paid for an appraisal, a magnified photocopy of the page of greysheet, and and a signed sheet with the dealers stated opinion as far as replacement value (insurance value) seem like a good starter. A retail guide such as one of the magazines or Redbook might provide additional backup. Again, a photocopy of that page, and the full title of the resource might be good.

If the woman had a computer, offer the PCGS price guide and Numismedia as possible resources. Even if she did not, leave those web addresses so a relative can double check it for her. One problem with any resource is that the novice often goes to the highest possible price on the date/mintmark line. Even if that may be PF65 for a MS62 coin.

Whatever the case, if a person is stuck on the idea of a high value, it is going to be a tough road. It gets even more tough if they paid a high price, perhaps from a telemarketing firm, or a TV coin ad/show, it is going to be tough.

edix2001 · February 12, 2011 12:43AM

<< "... can sell you as many of those as you want at less than $200 a pop." >>

Which is still wildly overpriced.

lcoopie · February 12, 2011 12:44AM

perhaps saying
it would have been worth thousands
if it looked like this
and show a MS67 or 68

thecoinlook · February 12, 2011 1:18AM

Unfortunately, it is hard to relay the tone you say something in across the internet.
It was not snide or rude in the way I said it, just simply stated.

In any case, I called her to apologize if I sounded rude and wanted to make clear I was not trying to con her.
She actually apologized to me and stated that her brother was in charge of divvying up a small inheritance, and she got this while her brother got 3 gold coins. She was unsure of the name, but when I said "Krugerrand", she knew that's what it was. Although she did not say, my guess was the were one-ouncers if he told her this was worth thousands. I did not state the value of the k-rands. and left it at that.
So I would assume her unhappiness is when she thought she may have got the raw end of a deal by her bro.

I typically do free appraisals if it's a small collection, so she was not paying for anything. I had the sheet with me, but figured it would be pointless having her try to read that.

But thanks for your input all! I would have rather had her try to sell it and I just say I wasn't interested versus having to tell her what it was worth.

ricko · February 12, 2011 1:42AM

As pointed out above, it is always a difficult situation. I have posted it here before about my experiences. Mine were with co-workers, and a couple never spoke to me again. I was very diplomatic, showed price guides etc etc. However, they had purchased coins from the TV show and believed the bovine feces they were spouting.... sad, however, there is no really great way to do this. Above all, be truthful, and try to be tactful. Cheers, RickO

vibr0nic · February 12, 2011 2:22AM

I thought your response was perfectly reasonable and straight to the point.

When she just didn't get the answer she wanted, you explained further why it wasn't the answer she wanted.

So long as you were polite about it, what else could you really have done?

QuarterCollector · February 12, 2011 2:33AM

No, you handled it exactly how I would if I owned a shop. You gave her a free appraisal. I'm sure when she goes to another B&M and is told the same thing she will realize that you were not trying to rip her off.

It would have been nice if you had one in stock and offered it to her for $200

lkeigwin · February 12, 2011 3:30AM

I think you did fine. It's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback and come up with different/better approaches.

The important thing is to be gentle. It's shocking and heartbreaking to hear something you've treasured for many years, and counted on to be valuable when the time comes to sell it, is worth a small fraction of what you've always believed.

It's hurtful to hear "I can sell you as many as you want at $200 a pop!" Don't rub salt into the wound. Maybe, "I know you will be disappointed to hear this but we sell those for around $200. I'm sorry."

The best ideas said here are:
1) To show her some convincing evidence. It would only take a minute or two to show her 5 ebay listings. (I really don't think the greysheet or a price guide would make your point unless she has some grasp on grades. There's a $175 number for AU and tens of $thousands for a 67DMPL. How is she to know this isn't part of your ruse?)
2) Offer to sell her more like hers around the appraised price.

It's hard to turn this situation into a winner. I'd say you handled it pretty well.

I agree with roadrunner. You probably won't win her business, being first with the bad news.
Lance.

stealer · February 12, 2011 3:34AM

<< 

<< 

<< I said "and can sell you as many of those as you want at less than $200 a pop."

Should I have handled that any differently?
>>

I think you could have said something more constructive than that, but just my 15 year old opinion.. >>

Maybe I shouldn't have said that, but I threw that in because I wanted her to let her know I was not trying to con her out of anything, and really could get her more if she desired (although I was certain there was no desire).

She probably wouldn't have been happy with the price even on an 85-CC.

I can only hope she calls someone else to verify what I was saying. >>

Really I don't know how I would've handled your situation any differently, so I'm not calling you out for any wrong doing

Sounds good that you called her to clear up any misinterpreted feelings

BillJones · February 12, 2011 3:40AM

I think you did exactly the right thing. Tell them the truth. Maybe her brother bought this from one of those crooked investment houses or from the barkers on "Get ripped off at home" on TV. If that's the case she should know the truth.

Years ago one of my in-laws friends asked me what a 1921 Peace dollar was worth that they had bought as an "investment" for $3,000. The coin was an AU (at least it had not been cleaned) that was worth $125. What are you going to do? Tell they did great, and in doing so encourage them to do it again?

Yes, sometimes the truth hurts, but usually it's better to tell it like it is.

Halfsense · February 12, 2011 3:44AM

In 1999, a poorly written wire service story that originated in Idaho seemingly indicated that EVERY 1943-dated cent was worth a half-million dollars. A short time later, I recall a dealer told me that a lady came into his store with a roll of circulated '43 steel cents and demanded $500,000 apiece. When the dealer said they were only worth a few cents each, she of course got indignant and yelled he was trying to cheat her. In desperation -- and good logic -- the dealer told her: "Lady, how can they be rare? You've got a whole roll of 'em."

Here's a link to a PCGS Library article about that troublesome wire service story:

Ed Reiter article about inaccurate 1943 cents story

So, how did the wire service story finally get corrected? After several of us (me, Ed Reiter and Scott Travers) unsuccessfully tried for days to get the reporter or his superiors in Idaho and New York to make a correction, I picked up the phone and called a former Chicago journalism colleague who at the time was Editor of Editor & Publisher magazine. I told him the background and provided names and phone numbers. The next day, one of his reporters called to tell me the wire service claimed it had been working on a correction (ha!) but had not yet run it. A correction eventually did run, but alas, only in the Montana and Idaho area even though the original, incorrect story had been picked up nationwide.

I should look in my handy media directory to see if that wire service reporter who originated the story is still in the business. Maybe he wants to buy a roll of circ '43 steelies?.....

-donn-

kurtdog · February 13, 2011 5:50AM

<< 

<< A lady in her 60's had a super rare coin that her brother told her was worth thousands. >>

Tell her to sell it to her brother.

>>

johnny9434 · February 14, 2011 4:20AM

<< Tell it like it is. I would have done the exact same thing.

>>

I agree with ya

plansim · February 14, 2011 5:03AM

The only change I would make is the phrase "I can sell these all day ...". It belittles her "valuable" possession, and by extension herself. Just say "when I get these in, I sell them for $xxx. In fact, here is one for sale in my case ...."

I learned as a volunteer that you can NEVER underestimate the public. Go as plain-vanilla as you can go.

shorecoll · February 14, 2011 6:03AM

You did fine, I saw a similar situation at our local show on Sunday. Someone had bought something somewhere (TV, flea market, whatever) for $500 and was trying to sell it, the dealer I was talking to told them it was worth $180 if he wanted it, which he didn't. About 5 min. later I heard another dealer offer him $160...so he didn't have a good day.

DMWJR · February 14, 2011 6:29AM

It's one of the reasons I don't like dealing with brick and mortar shops. You guys need to learn some customer skills. If you don't see the arrogance and condescension, there may not be anything you can do to improve. It would have taken all of two minutes to compare her Morgan with a 63-65 example in your case, explain to her that it had "too many marks on it" and then show her the red book value of an MS60. You might have saved her as a customer for another day.

I'm just sayin' ...

garrynot · February 14, 2011 6:30AM

You did fine. Your follow up phone call was a great thing to do and eased her mind and yours.

renomedphys · February 14, 2011 7:01AM

Some people honestly believe that any 18xx coin must be worth thousands. Also that any 19xx coin must be junk, silver at best. Eventually they will respond to a full-page ad in the newspaper and be rewarded for their diligence.

Personally I try to be very blunt.

rhedden · February 14, 2011 7:28AM

She'll be back in a couple of weeks after she asks around and the various pawn shops in your town offer $50 for the coin.

Owners' perceived values of items can lead to funny circumstances. When I was in college, I had a friend who wanted a box of coins appraised. He brought them out one at a time, in the order of his perceived value. The 1921 Morgan dollars he was showing me were worth about $10 at the time. There were some junky large cents and 3-centers, but nothing over $15. The last coin in the box came flying across the table at me, as he threw it, and he asked, "what's this piece of junk worth?" It was a very darkly toned 1918-D Walking Liberty half dollar in Unc. with luster coming through the (ugly) toning. I had a good laugh and told him he just threw a $300+ coin across the table. Good thing I caught it.

Shamika · February 14, 2011 7:50AM

Another possibility is that she felt stupid when you said you "can sell you as many of those as you want at less than $200 a pop". It may have been her belief that you were implying (which you weren't) that she should have known better. It's no doubt a tough part of being a coin or antiques dealer, constantly telling people that their priceless family heirloom is worth little if anything.

InternetJunky · February 14, 2011 7:53AM

<< that's always a good check on an appraisal, when the owner thinks their prize is priceless, tell them how many and how cheap can you offer them the same thing back to them.

you don't have to be snide about it in your tone or manner, but when offered with kindness, this is one of the best ways of letting the owner down easier.

it works best when you can produce the actual coins or at least show them completed ebay transactions, if a computer is nearby. >>

mkman123 · February 14, 2011 9:46AM

glad you called her back to apologize and you both made things right. Who knows she may know a friend of a friend of a friend, etc that may one day come to you for an appraisal thats worth a lot.