NGC VF/Cleaned to PCGS VF25/CAC... 1861-C $5

I have no relation to this coin... just thought this was an interesting jump.
NGC VF Details, Cleaned
Same coin, PCGS VF25 CAC
NGC VF Details, Cleaned
Same coin, PCGS VF25 CAC
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Comments
<< <i>whats sad is I bid on both and didn't notice, It looks like MA gold that does not have an old skin to me. I think CAC and NGC are wrong and PCGS is right. >>
PCGS and CAC saw it the same way. If PCGS is right, CAC isn't wrong.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
In either direction between TPG's and also in multiple submissions to the same TPG...
This may not be appropriate for me to say ... but here goes anyway...
It is because of such ambiguity (or read subjectivity) in grades given (or non-grades, as the case might be)... that I have little "faith" in + grades... or stickers from ____ ... and I am also nonplussed
When a coin can go in for grading 3-4 or more times and receive the same grade each time, I will be inclined to give the + consideration...
and as for that (in)famous sticker... the businessman in me accepts the marketing aspect of the sticker... and it IS helpful with high end coins and gold (read "more likely to be doctored")...
yet overall, the collector in me is simply not impressed by all these "additives" nor discouraged (except in regards to my wallet for paying submission fees) by non-grades...
please note that I am aware that + grades were not a part of this particular thread... yet I do feel it is somehow related to this topic... and anyway... I felt like "throwing it in" the mix
<< <i>That is interesting... speaks to the subjectivity of the grading issue. Not a criticism, just a comment. Cheers, RickO >>
Yes, no question about it. Not black and white - many shades of gray
<< <i>Wow, do none of the posters above me think the coin has been "healed by a numismatic physician" between the two holders? I mean generally NGC is pretty forgiving of cleaning on Charlotte gold and this guy didn't make a straight grade. Then it goes PCAC? I'm not a big advocate of grading or surface evaluation from photos, but just from the two holders the chance of this being a straight crack and resubmit is zero. Photos seem to agree. >>
I strongly disagree with your assertion that "the the chance of this being a straight crack and resubmit is zero". I think it's more like 90%, and I don't see the photos as supporting your position.
<< <i>I'm not a big advocate of grading or surface evaluation from photos, but just from the two holders the chance of this being a straight crack and resubmit is zero. >>
I think the chance may even be lower than that.
Without seeing the coin in person it's not possible to comment intelligently.
...and will only fuel the fires of the crackout speculators. good gravy!
<< <i>That is an awesome roller coaster ride for that coin >>
Ballsy $4K profit pot shot!
<< <i>
<< <i>whats sad is I bid on both and didn't notice, It looks like MA gold that does not have an old skin to me. I think CAC and NGC are wrong and PCGS is right. >>
PCGS and CAC saw it the same way. If PCGS is right, CAC isn't wrong. >>
Mark I disagree and feel that sometimes PCGS net grades by policy and CAC doesn't as it their whole purpose. I don't think that all MA coins that deserve to be in a holders deserve to be CAC'ed... do you? And I think it was a straight crack and submit by the photos.
<< <i>That is an awesome roller coaster ride for that coin
...and will only fuel the fires of the crackout speculators. good gravy!
That fire has been fueled for decades and is nothing new, although it might fan the next Gen of them
<< <i>All non modern coins are net graded. Period. >>
Is your 75p Trade doller Net Graded or Modern ?!?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>whats sad is I bid on both and didn't notice, It looks like MA gold that does not have an old skin to me. I think CAC and NGC are wrong and PCGS is right. >>
PCGS and CAC saw it the same way. If PCGS is right, CAC isn't wrong. >>
Mark I disagree and feel that sometimes PCGS net grades by policy and CAC doesn't as it their whole purpose. I don't think that all MA coins that deserve to be in a holders deserve to be CAC'ed... do you? And I think it was a straight crack and submit by the photos. >>
Fair point. I misunderstood your post, thinking you had said something other than what you meant to. My apologies.
<< <i>
<< <i>All non modern coins are net graded. Period. >>
Is your 75p Trade doller Net Graded or Modern ?!?
It's net graded down a point due to a tiny mark where a camera fell on it during photography and shinyness on Liberty's breast from where a capitol plastics holder was tightened down on it.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>All non modern coins are net graded. Period. >>
Is your 75p Trade doller Net Graded or Modern ?!?
It's net graded down a point due to a tiny mark where a camera fell on it during photography and shinyness on Liberty's breast from where a capitol plastics holder was tightened down on it. >>
Her Ta Ta's look just fine to me but I will take your word for it since she is your lady. Besides I tend to hang around with a loser(graded of course) group of ladies and wouldn't know what to do with that class.
<< <i>Numismaticly "healed" was my first thought too. >>
What do you think you see in the second image that causes you to think that? I suspect that you and the poster with whom you agreed are being swayed, by virtue of knowing the differing grading results, and not by the images, themselves.
it was more then likely cleaned up/dipped to remove any dirt/gunk/whatever in
the past. I am not saying anything was done to it after it was cracked out of the
NGC problem holder.
it is nothing special to me. a blah coin. i have owned others like it before in that
date range area (1860s) and they are the boring.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>
<< <i>Wow, do none of the posters above me think the coin has been "healed by a numismatic physician" between the two holders? I mean generally NGC is pretty forgiving of cleaning on Charlotte gold and this guy didn't make a straight grade. Then it goes PCAC? I'm not a big advocate of grading or surface evaluation from photos, but just from the two holders the chance of this being a straight crack and resubmit is zero. Photos seem to agree. >>
I strongly disagree with your assertion that "the the chance of this being a straight crack and resubmit is zero". I think it's more like 90%, and I don't see the photos as supporting your position. >>
Have to disagree with you on this one, Mark. After comparing the two images in full screen size,
I think the color has changed on the coin. Nothing major, but just enough to diminish the impact
of the cleaning.
1. Buy very rare Morgan VAM in ANACS VF20 holder.
2. Coin crosses to VF20 at PCGS on first try.
3. Coin goes in for regrade not long afterward and comes back VF30.
4. Coin goes to CAC and gets a sticker.