POLL: Is the Carr 64-D Peace Dollar a counterfeit coin?

MrEureka · February 8, 2011 7:45AM

Please read all of the options before making your selection.

mbbiker · February 8, 2011 8:00AM

You can't counterfeit something that doesn't exist. No I Don't own one just my take on the whole thing.

RRich2004 · February 8, 2011 8:01AM

<< Please read all of the options before making your selection. >>

If those are the only options, then your poll is seriously flawed.

The better option to add would be:

These are altered from their genuine state and finish and subject to the regulations of the HPA.

JamesMurray · February 8, 2011 8:08AM

Overpriced bullion might be another useful option to the poll.

PawPaul · February 8, 2011 8:10AM

.......just can't let it go

........have to keep fighting ...

arghhhhhhh

Tdec1000 · February 8, 2011 8:12AM

Where is the beating a dead horse emoticon at when you need it?

CaptHenway · February 8, 2011 8:12AM

Which version?

The ones struck over mutilated Peace dollars, or the ones struck on blank silver or copper disks?

CaptHenway · February 8, 2011 8:14AM

<< You can't counterfeit something that doesn't exist. No I Don't own one just my take on the whole thing. >>

There are counterfeit 1923-D and 1930-D dimes in existence. The Mint never made any. Are you saying that they are not counterfeits because they never existed?

questor54 · February 8, 2011 8:16AM

These objects are counterfeits because the originals were struck. The present existance of any originals are unknown and irrelevant. If these objects were marked 'copy' they would no longer be counterfeits. The overstriking is just the method of counterfeiting.

If these were counterfeit Trade Dollars from China we all would be raising heck. These should not get a 'pass'.

coinguy1 · February 8, 2011 8:24AM

<< You can't counterfeit something that doesn't exist. No I Don't own one just my take on the whole thing. >>

"Imitation numismatic items" are also covered by the the Hobby Protection Act, which defines them as:

"Imitation numismatic item means an item which purports to be, but in fact is not, an original numismatic item or which is a reproduction, copy, or counterfeit of an original numismatic item. Such term includes an original numismatic item which has been altered or modified in such a manner that it could reasonably purport to be an original numismatic item other than the one which was altered or modified. The term shall not include any re-issue or re-strike of any original numismatic item by the United States or any foreign government."

MrEureka · February 8, 2011 8:24AM

Does it make any difference how the dies were manufactured?

jmski52 · February 8, 2011 8:31AM

Is the 1913 Liberty Nickel a counterfeit? What about Confederate coinage?

magikbilly · February 8, 2011 8:35AM

I didn't see much "artistry" there IMHO. Manipulation of many things besides metal? Hmmm. Anyway, would a "normal" person (non coin collector) see this as another Peace dollar? What is the problem there? Why blur this line? What motive....? Lots of people "...want..." stuff...

Eric

dsessom · February 8, 2011 8:51AM

If it were really a counterfeit, Dan Carr would be facing charges right now. Fortunately, opinions don't change the law - unless you are a judge or member of Congress.

bstat1020 · February 8, 2011 8:52AM

this is getting old...

RichieURich · February 8, 2011 8:54AM

<< Where is the beating a dead horse emoticon at when you need it?

>>

What he said. Enough already. Everyone has their own opinion on this topic and no thread is going to change anyone's mind, so let's move on to bashing eBay and following the prices of the hockey pucks!

JRocco · February 8, 2011 9:12AM

<< .......just can't let it go

........have to keep fighting ...

arghhhhhhh >>

At least the two of us have moved on my friend

ebaybuyer · February 8, 2011 9:17AM

an altered genuine coin is an altered genuine coin not a counterfeit coin. just as a counterfeit coin is not an altered coin. when carr strikes the coin with his dies he is altering a genuine coin, he is not counterfeiting. if one adds an S to a genuine 1909 indian cent, the result is a genuine coin that has been altered, if carr was using pillar dollar dies over peace dollars, it would still be a genuine coin that has been altered. many people here seem to have trouble understanding the difference between a genuine coin that has been altered and a counterfeit coin.

anablep · February 8, 2011 9:19AM

Not counterfeit; there is nothing to counterfeit if there is no original.

And while it may be a fantasy, its not the object of my fantasies...

Steve27 · February 8, 2011 9:21AM

Where's the choice "I don't give a rat's toches?"

OchoReales · February 8, 2011 9:38AM

notwilight · February 8, 2011 9:45AM

<< Please read all of the options before making your selection. >>

You didn't list all the options....so how can I read them?

renman95 · February 8, 2011 9:45AM

fc · February 8, 2011 9:49AM

<< If it were really a counterfeit, Dan Carr would be facing charges right now. Fortunately, opinions don't change the law - unless you are a judge or member of Congress. >>

I guess you are making the assumption all laws are actually equally enforced and
all possible offenders are investigated.

Which we know is not the case.

Baley · February 8, 2011 9:53AM

When I was growing up, Pluto was a planet.

Now, it's not.

(Pluto itself hasn't noticed the difference)

LindeDad · February 8, 2011 9:56AM

Who really cares anymore?

Now that 1894 AU58 Morgan dollar in a PCGS AU58 slab that sold for around $1500.00 has me worried.

Hotfootspin · February 8, 2011 10:29AM

Why does this same durn question keep getting asked over and over?

Mark

jessewvu · February 8, 2011 10:59AM

Seriously? Are you serious? Enough already! I'm a fan of the coin for sure, but GET OVER IT EVERYONE!!!!!! LET IT GO!!!!! STOP THE INSANITY!!!!

All you need to do is create a post about the Dcarr peace dollar, type it all out, and then delete it without posting it. get it out of your system but don't clog up ours... sheesh

And who cares anyway. Ask yourself the question and let it go, nobody else is going to change your mind...

sorry, but seriously?

MrEureka · February 8, 2011 11:32AM

Seriously? Are you serious? Enough already! I'm a fan of the coin for sure, but GET OVER IT EVERYONE!!!!!! LET IT GO!!!!! STOP THE INSANITY!!!!

Sorry, I missed the other threads. Yes, really. I simply didn't care enough about the 64-D to read them. But now I'm involved in another situation with another coin, and I thought the results of this poll could be helpful.

(BTW, try turning off the CAPS LOCK and chilling out. It's not like you had to respond to my post, you know.)

mrcoin3 · February 8, 2011 11:33AM

<< Why does this same durn question keep getting asked over and over?

Mark >>

Because no one has come up with an answer that is acceptable to everyone.

ecichlid · February 8, 2011 11:49AM

As I view the poll right now, 85% of the people who replied do not feel this coin is a counterfeit. Of course the poll does not matter, even if it is a counterfeit, the law has chosen not to do anything about it.

ecichlid · February 8, 2011 11:51AM

<< Because no one has come up with an answer that is acceptable to everyone. >>

If the authorities don't think it's a problem and 85% of us don't think it's a problem, then why should take that 15% minority seriously?

MrEureka · February 8, 2011 11:59AM

...even if it is a counterfeit, the law has chosen not to do anything about it.

I'm pretty sure "The Law" would act if somebody passed one off as the real thing and lots of money changed hands. Which brings up another question. Is a counterfeit not a counterfeit until it is offered as a real coin?

hockeyfan9 · February 8, 2011 12:04PM

Who cares? How many times are we going to beat this dead horse?

mudskippie · February 8, 2011 1:06PM

<< Who cares? How many times are we going to beat this dead horse? >>

I don't understand! If you don't like the subject, just ignore the thread. No need to waste your time commenting on it.

pocketpiececommems · February 8, 2011 1:06PM

If I had a 1922 Lincoln cent die made and struck it over a real Lincoln cent would that be a counterfeit? since their weren't any P mints that year.

CaptHenway · February 8, 2011 1:20PM

<< Which version?

The ones struck over mutilated Peace dollars, or the ones struck on blank silver or copper disks? >>

Andy.......you didn't answer this question..........please do.

robec · February 8, 2011 1:27PM

<< If I had a 1922 Lincoln cent die made and struck it over a real Lincoln cent would that be a counterfeit? since their weren't any P mints that year. >>

I've heard there are a few 1922's circulating. It may have been Denver, but somehow they managed to escape destruction. I don't think the same can be said of the 64-D Peace. I don't think anybody even knows what they looked like or would even know an authentic one if they saw it.

MrEureka · February 8, 2011 1:28PM

The ones struck over mutilated Peace dollars, or the ones struck on blank silver or copper disks?

Does it matter? Anyway, I was thinking about the overstruck pieces, which is why I phrased my "fantasy" answer as I did.

PinkFloyd · February 8, 2011 1:31PM

Not a counterfeit until an original surfaces. Private fantasy piece.

trosen · February 8, 2011 1:37PM

COUNTERFEIT- A counterfeit is an imitation, usually one that is made with the intent of fraudulently passing it off as genuine. Counterfeit products are often produced with the intent to take advantage of the superior value of the imitated product

definition is compliments of wikipedia.

robec · February 8, 2011 1:58PM

<< COUNTERFEIT- A counterfeit is an imitation, usually one that is made with the intent of fraudulently passing it off as genuine. Counterfeit products are often produced with the intent to take advantage of the superior value of the imitated product

definition is compiments of wikipedia. >>

There you go. With all the disclosure and documentation D. Carr has provided and by this definition...... Not Counterfeit.

JamesMurray · February 8, 2011 2:02PM

If conceded that it's not a counterfeit one must also conclude with it's not a US coin either , which begs the question why it's so prominent in so many threads on a US coin forum.

CaptHenway · February 8, 2011 4:07PM

<< The ones struck over mutilated Peace dollars, or the ones struck on blank silver or copper disks?

Does it matter? Anyway, I was thinking about the overstruck pieces, which is why I phrased my "fantasy" answer as I did. >>

Yes, it matters greatly.

Mr. Carr and his supporters keep saying that his 1964-D dollars are legal because they are merely alterations of genuine Peace dollars. That is the crux of their argument. Who knows; it might even hold up in a court of law?

However, back when I was authenticating coins for the American Numismatic Association, we called U.S. coins made from privately-made dies on privately-made planchets COUNTERFEITS.

Mr. Carr and his supporters seem to wish to ignore those strikes. Perhaps Mr. Carr would like to reconsider his decision not to destroy them.

magikbilly · February 8, 2011 4:14PM

<< Not a counterfeit until an original surfaces. >>

Mr. Hall thinks that more than 50% likely.

Eric

pennyannie · February 8, 2011 4:27PM

I did not see the poll but vote overpriced bullion. Some will flip them and do okay and others will lose. In the end they are just 90 percent. I am actually in the i could care less camp, if you want to buy them rock on. Hope it turns out well. I know what my local B@M would offer if any walk thru the door. lol

ricko · February 8, 2011 9:53PM

The 'final solution' will, of course, only be found in a court of law... which, those in the counterfeit camp, will heartily disagree with if the coin is found to be not counterfeit. So the debate will continue to rage on. I expect this will become as perennial as the AT/NT issue. Cheers, RickO

INXS · February 9, 2011 2:50AM

Don't really care, my set is in the vault.

Raybob15239 · February 9, 2011 3:34AM

The poll is disingenuous... the real question is a simple yes or no question: does the Daniel Carr 1964 D Peace Dollar violate the Hobby Protection Act?

Here's another question for all the defenders of this piece... if Daniel Carr's pieces are OK, are those 1964-D Peace Dollars offered by hunanawai (Chinese ebay seller) OK, too? (And forget the arguements about artistic merits; if Dan Carr can make and sell these with impunity, why can't the chinese makers do the same thing?)

mrcoin3 · February 9, 2011 3:43AM

"Which answer best describes your opinion? ---None of those listed.
Is the Carr 64-D Peace dollar a counterfeit coin? Answer is NO!

Artist · February 9, 2011 3:44AM

<< 

<< The ones struck over mutilated Peace dollars, or the ones struck on blank silver or copper disks?

Does it matter? Anyway, I was thinking about the overstruck pieces, which is why I phrased my "fantasy" answer as I did. >>

Yes, it matters greatly.

Mr. Carr and his supporters keep saying that his 1964-D dollars are legal because they are merely alterations of genuine Peace dollars. That is the crux of their argument. Who knows; it might even hold up in a court of law?

However, back when I was authenticating coins for the American Numismatic Association, we called U.S. coins made from privately-made dies on privately-made planchets COUNTERFEITS.

Mr. Carr and his supporters seem to wish to ignore those strikes. Perhaps Mr. Carr would like to reconsider his decision not to destroy them. >>

Coins that say U.S. currency that are made from privately-made dies on privately-made planchets are counterfeits. Had the D-Carr pieces not been struck over legal tender Peace Dollars, they would not be allowed to say "United States of America / One Dollar" least they be counterfeits as well. The D-Carr '64-D Peace Dollars are legal tender, therefore they are not counterfeits.

Now, another question to ask, would be are they forgeries...

POLL: Is the Carr 64-D Peace Dollar a counterfeit coin?

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