What would this 1795 Dollar grade?

Russ · January 9, 2011 7:54AM

Opinions?

Russ, NCNE

SamByrd · January 9, 2011 7:55AM

XF45

AnkurJ · January 9, 2011 8:01AM

Genuine for environmental damage or altered surfaces.

Sonorandesertrat · January 9, 2011 8:09AM

Genuine

tydye · January 9, 2011 8:09AM

XF details
Was it in a fire?

Russ · January 9, 2011 8:09AM

<< Genuine for environmental damage or altered surfaces. >>

Yeah, the staining is rather bothersome.

Russ, NCNE

RYK · January 9, 2011 8:17AM

Lot of meat on that coin. Too bad about the environmental damage.

coinguy1 · January 9, 2011 8:29AM

Why do I think the coin might be a (scary) counterfeit? There's something about Russ's tone in this thread, as well as the unusual nature of the "environmental damage".

Cam40 · January 9, 2011 8:30AM

It could be an AU50 if it were problem-free.
If it slabbed it probably would be a `genuine`
nevertheless, i wouldn`t kick it out of my humble collection. tfs

joebb21 · January 9, 2011 8:38AM

If genuine, au details, stained, cleaned, tooled

speety · January 9, 2011 8:38AM

<< Why do I think the coin might be a (scary) counterfeit?. >>

I was thinking the same thing...

pcgs69 · January 9, 2011 8:39AM

has the look of a chinese counterfeit for some reason, but if genuine, I'd think it could be a 50

Pokermandude · January 9, 2011 8:52AM

My first thought was EF45 details/body bag. Anacs might go AU50 details though.

bidask · January 9, 2011 8:54AM

<< Genuine for environmental damage or altered surfaces. >>

have to agree

keets · January 9, 2011 9:28AM

AU details/environmental damge

Dog97 · January 9, 2011 9:35AM

For smoe strange reason the Draped Bust Liberty just doesn't look right on that coin.

TomB · January 9, 2011 9:37AM

Counterfeit.

tydye · January 9, 2011 9:56AM

I am thinking counterfeit now after a second look because of the denticles. The bust looks really good though if indeed counterfeit

grip · January 9, 2011 10:07AM

Nice stars

kurtdog · January 9, 2011 10:18AM

Those stars simply represent the original 15 colonies.

Russ · January 9, 2011 10:25AM

<< Those stars simply represent the original 15 colonies.

>>

15 stars is correct.

Russ, NCNE

stealer · January 9, 2011 10:26AM

The clouds look weak compared to the rest of the details, not genuine

Halfhunter06 · January 9, 2011 10:48AM

The reverse gets to me the most. Overall though a nice one

silverpop · January 9, 2011 10:48AM

badly made fake

kurtdog · January 9, 2011 10:52AM

Well, I don't see how you guys can conclude it's a fake, given all the unknown minor die variations conceded to have existed back then. At least, not just by looking at some pictures.

lkeigwin · January 9, 2011 11:16AM

Not sure it's a "badly made fake" but I'll go with those who think it is fake.

The dentils look wrong...not as crisply formed as they should be, particularly where they meet the fields.

If it's fake it feels like a copy from a real one.
Lance.

coinkat · January 9, 2011 11:22AM

not my series but I think it is counterfeit as well- just not sure if it is a comtemporary counterfeit

I think it is deceptive - but I and not seeing adjustment marks or some of the characterists one would likely see

GoldenEyeNumismatics · January 9, 2011 11:40AM

Kinda looks fake.

GAT · January 9, 2011 11:45AM

No opinion here, but my, how everyone jumps on the bandwagon when coinguy1 post he thinks it's fake.

Dog97 · January 9, 2011 11:45AM

<< For smoe strange reason the Draped Bust Liberty just doesn't look right on that coin. >>

I didn't realize they made both types in 95. Disregard my last post.

JRocco · January 9, 2011 12:01PM

I know I am late to this party, but that coin
was not made on a US screw press.

jdillane · January 9, 2011 1:32PM

Remember, the Chinese used the 1795 off center to make their DBSE fakes. This looks alot like the one I have.

I posted on this before but I once persuaded a ebay purveyor of these fakes to send me one, on approval. This, after one of them appeared to fetch ~$10K in a private auction. I emailed the seller and said i would like one too, adding that seller should send it to me and if I like it, I will pay. Seller replied that I had to win the coin first, pay, then it would be shipped. I advised the seller that he dishonored me. That in my country people always send me coins and I only pay if I like. In one of the emails I provided my address.

Much to my surprise, one came in the mail about 3 weeks later. Seller probably figured that the outside chance I would be dumb enough to send him money made sending it worthwhile.

mingot · January 9, 2011 1:42PM

<< I posted on this before but I once persuaded a ebay purveyor of these fakes to send me one, on approval. This, after one of them appeared to fetch ~$10K in a private auction. I emailed the seller and said i would like one too, adding that seller should send it to me and if I like it, I will pay. Seller replied that I had to win the coin first, pay, then it would be shipped. I advised the seller that he dishonored me. That in my country people always send me coins and I only pay if I like. In one of the emails I provided my address.. >>

lol well played

DUIGUY · January 9, 2011 2:22PM

<< Counterfeit. >>

Hair curls under B and E, should be under E and R.

sf340flier · January 9, 2011 2:29PM

I would have guessed genuine and XFish. Would have fooled me.

numobri · January 9, 2011 2:50PM

Grade wise, high end VF tops.

Brian

ANACONDA · January 9, 2011 2:53PM

I think it needs to see a coin doctor.....it looks like it has vitiligo.

relicsncoins · January 9, 2011 4:22PM

It has a very simmilar looks to a lot of trade dollars these days.

JJ

sinin1 · January 9, 2011 9:06PM

very similar to this one
but yours has been hit with a torch

my pictured coin on eBay currently at $2 delivered

kurtdog · January 9, 2011 11:55PM

<< 

<< Those stars simply represent the original 15 colonies.

>>

15 stars is correct.

Russ, NCNE >>

Russ, that was just my lame reply to Grip, as he didn't explain what he sees wrong with the stars. Back up a little, you'll see that.

Connecticoin · January 10, 2011 12:06AM

<< Counterfeit. >>

Yup. Depressions in the field give it away.

gecko109 · January 10, 2011 12:41AM

Im so glad I got out of collecting higher end type coins!

grip · January 10, 2011 12:45AM

<< 

<< 

<< Those stars simply represent the original 15 colonies.

>>

15 stars is correct.

Russ, NCNE >>

Russ, that was just my lame reply to Grip, as he didn't explain what he sees wrong with the stars. Back up a little, you'll see that.

>>

My fault.I should have just said,the stars look cartoonish.

kurtdog · January 10, 2011 12:55AM

<< very similar to this one
but yours has been hit with a torch >>

Omitting pictures to conserve bandwidth, but I guess this is the point at which one says, "Seeing is believing." Good job.

kurtdog · January 10, 2011 1:00AM

<< My fault.I should have just said,the stars look cartoonish. >>

Yeah, that's what I say, and you should be punished for neglecting to say that! And exiled!

Nysoto · January 10, 2011 8:10AM

The 1795 off center bust dollar is often faked, with the diagnostics of the copies closely matching a geniune coin. This coin has the same degree of bifurcation on T and Y and probably came from the same fake dies that sinin 1 posted, with the obverse field tooled. The transfer dies copied the bifurcation of the genuine coin and will be on all fakes made from these dies, which would not be the case on genuine coins. The edge lettering will also indicate a bogus bust dollar.

coinguy1 · January 10, 2011 8:20AM

<< The 1795 off center bust dollar is often faked, with the diagnostics of the copies closely matching a geniune coin. This coin has the same degree of bifurcation on T and Y and probably came from the same fake dies that sinin 1 posted, with the obverse field tooled. The transfer dies copied the bifurcation of the genuine coin and will be on all fakes made from these dies, which would not be the case on genuine coins. The edge lettering will also indicate a bogus bust dollar. >>

Thank you. Do I understand correctly, then, that the stars on the counterfeit posted by Russ, will match those seen on genuine examples?

coinkid855 · January 10, 2011 8:26AM

I agree with counterfeit...the denticles look odd.

-Paul

grip · January 10, 2011 9:21AM

For comparison..hope it's real

....forgot to mention,this is off center.

Nysoto · January 10, 2011 11:05AM

<< << The 1795 off center bust dollar is often faked, with the diagnostics of the copies closely matching a geniune coin. This coin has the same degree of bifurcation on T and Y and probably came from the same fake dies that sinin 1 posted, with the obverse field tooled. The transfer dies copied the bifurcation of the genuine coin and will be on all fakes made from these dies, which would not be the case on genuine coins. The edge lettering will also indicate a bogus bust dollar. >> >>

<< Thank you. Do I understand correctly, then, that the stars on the counterfeit posted by Russ, will match those seen on genuine examples? >>

The position of the stars relative to L and Y match 1795 B14, along with star to dentil orientation. However, stars 9-15 on the coin Russ posted appear to be slightly filled between the points, from a incomplete transfer from the original when the fake dies were made. There is also a joined dentil under 17 on both Sinin 1 and Russ' coin, but not on a genuine 1795 B14. Notice that obverse T is filled at the base on Grip's geniune posted coin, but on both fakes is bifurcated

ebaybuyer · January 10, 2011 1:49PM

just curious jdillane, did you ever pay for the one that was sent to you or did you just rip the guy off ?

What would this 1795 Dollar grade?

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