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What things cause you to blacklist a dealer?
291fifth
Posts: 24,603 ✭✭✭✭✭
Let's start a list:
1. Badmouthing coins that are offered for sale.
1. Badmouthing coins that are offered for sale.
All glory is fleeting.
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Lying. "That's a doubled die so it's priced at (40% more than retail)" when it's clearly Longacre doubling.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
I’ll cite an example from more than 30 years ago. As a collector I’ve always be fascinated by the early half dimes. When I was just learning the ropes about these coins (I was about 25 years old.) I spotted a dealer at a show who had three pieces for sale. All of them had grades marked on the holders, and none of them had any notations for problems.
I checked them out and rejected one outright. It was in a 3 inch by 3 inch Capital Plastics holder, and looking from front to back I could see that it was bent.
The second one looked okay but when I put a 10x glass to it, I saw an anomaly in one of the letters of “LIBERTY” above the bust of Ms. Liberty. Sure enough when I flipped it over, there was a corresponding spot on the reverse. The coin had been holed and plugged.
The third coin intrigued me because it looked to have original surfaces with a couple of light adjustment marks on the obverse. (When the planchets of early coins weighed too much it was common practice at the early U.S. mint to remove the excess metal with a file, leaving “adjustment marks.”) I asked the price and the dealer gave an attractive quote that was fair for a coin with no problems. Upon further examination with my 10x, I saw the problem. The coin had had initials carved into the field, and the “adjustment marks” had been skillfully added to cover them.
When I passed on the offer, the dealer asked why. “That’s a good price,” he said.
I explained to him about the concealed initials which met that the coin was damaged and worth only a fraction of his asking price.
“Oh, I was going to tell you about that!” he responded.
Yea, right.
Dealers that portray non-original coins as original
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
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-Paul
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Oh and dealers who "upsell" coins. They blah blah blah about the gorgeous this that or the other when the coin is obviously a dog. Nice coins sell themselves.
If a dealer is talking with another dealer or even selling to them...say I will be right with you...if they are shooting the breeze and again ignor me I walk!
<< <i>When a dealer tries to buy your coins at Bluesheet giving you a detailed explanation why..then wants you to buy his coins at Trends. I had an 1878CC Morgan in 65 that a nameless dealer (because hes on this forum) offered me 800 for..well i sold it for 1550. >>
The only comment I would make, and I'm sure it's not the case here, is don't condemn a dealer for making a low offer on something if the item is not within his specialty. For example if you go up to a dealer who has a case full of early copper, and you offer him a Morgan Dollar, don’t be surprised if he won’t make any offer or only a low ball offer if you press him. The trouble is he has no market for such things, and if he bought it chances are he could only wholesale it to someone else.
Even if a price seems low to you, buying something that out of your specialty usually results in slow moving or poorly performing stock. Such material ties up working capital, and most specialist dealers don’t want to mess with it.
But I do tend to stick with a very small group of dealers that I know well and trust.
<< <i>I only boycott one dealer, who treated me rudely in 1997. Larry Whitlow. >>
One rude line that I've had dropped on me twice in my life when I asked to see something was, "You can't afford that!" It happened once when I was in my 20s and again when I was in my 50s. Silly dealers! Both times I was interested in the item, and both times I had enough cash to buy it, even if the quote had been at full retail.
"You can't judge a book by it's cover." I guess my cover, which was nearly and cleanly dressed both times (I was wearing a sport coat and tie the time I was in my 20s) didn't llok prosperous enough to them.
<< <i>I don't really "blacklist" any dealers. I'll consider a purchase from any dealer if they have a coin I want at the right price.
But I do tend to stick with a very small group of dealers that I know well and trust. >>
I can be flexible in that regard. I once bought a very expensive coin from a dealer who had crossed me in the past. But I knew 100% that it was a item that I really wanted, and the coin was wonderful. The trouble is I often don't spend my time at shows shopping dealers whom I don't like. This was just an unusual circumstance where I happened to see the coin in passing.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>at local shows I've seen dealers lying to folks coming in off the street in order to rip nice coins. for example, customer asks what his coin is worth and asks dealer what the price in the latest greysheet is and the dealer intentionally understates the value by $100 or so. lowball offers are fine, but blatantly misrepresenting information like that is wrong and I try to avoid doing business with folks like that. >>
Well stated. I agree with you 100%.
I certainly can't speak for Larry nor can I remember 1997, not a show anyway
Harlan J. Berk, Ltd.
https://hjbltd.com/#!/department/us-coins
<< <i>I blacklist only one current dealer, a famous one who literally "wrote the book" on a series. I placed a trial order of a $500 coin about 10 years ago. The coin came while I was away on a business trip, I got home examined it and found PVC damage (inside a slab). Had a 5-day return privilege and I called on day 6, sorry 5 days, you're out of luck. >>
Who was it? That behavior is reprehensible.
The return privilege should start when you sign for the coin, not ostensibly when it reaches the post office. Given his strict adherence to the "5 days" it is very likely the dealer knew about the PVC and took this opporuntity to "stick" you with the coin.
<< <i>crazy people who make insane youtube videos ranting and raving about how everyone picks on them and that they are better than everyone else (does this ring a bell) >>
Beavertown Coin, NJ took coins on consignment from me worth 5 figures, sold them all in a few weeks, then stalled on payments for quite some time... then declared bankruptcy before ever settling. They used my money to help keep their business alive before they finally shut down. It dragged on for a long time and in hindsight that was a huge mistake. They are back in business today in the same general location as if that never happened and are still a lifetime ANA member in "good standing."
I think one of my biggest pet peeves is retailers who want nothing to do with their previous sales and won't make legitimate offers. There is no law that says retailers have to buy back their stuff. And there is also no law that says collectors have to keep frequenting those establishments once their buy back policy is understood.
I've had 2 situations where dealers either flat out refused to ever make offers on their own coins (forever) or claimed they never sold them to me in the first place (their way of getting around having to make an offer). Many B&M shops love to buy over the counter from the unknowing public for peanuts. Some wouldn't survive just paying customers strong prices for their coins. It's been 30 yrs since I've seen one of those dealers (the other one passed away). Someday maybe I'll walk in again. Never say never.
roadrunner
The Penny Lady®
This is the one act that I will not forgive.
Rudeness may be due to many reasons and I am always willing to give
the benefit of the doubt ,that a dealer is just having a bad day or home
problems.If the dealer is otherwise honest , knows their business and
has coins I like, I will overlook a bad day and do business with them.
Camelot
He frequents local shows, and on one Saturday afternoon I was at his table at the annual coin show, and I was looking for a roll of Statehood quarters to finish up my album for the year. There were three or four other customers at his table, and I waited patiently for about 10 minutes, trying to get the dealer's attention so I could ask permission to look at his quarter rolls, which he had sitting out on his table. After waiting, I finally just reached down and picked up the roll to see if it was the state I needed. The dealer immediately took the roll from my hands and hid it back behind his table, and went back to dealing with another customer. He didn't say a word. I avoid him like the plague ever since.
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Ron
<< <i>As a young(er) numismatist, I've always hated being treated like I don't know anything and/or being watched like a hawk when I look at coins. There's a difference between a friendly glance and a glare that implies they're just waiting for me to take something. >>
I'm used to that. In fact, I am truly, honestly surprised when I am NOT treated like that! As such, being treated like that for more then a decade now, it doesn't stop me from doing buisness with people.
I have found that in numismatics, the majority of people DON'T judge you by the way you look. It was pleasently surprised to discover that.
For me, well, I am a generally easy going person, and not one who likes confrontation. If you take my money and don't deliver a product, then I will never do buisness with you again. That's the big one for me. For in person dealers...like at shows...they would have to do something really bad to make me not do buisness with them. If they have something I like, that is more important to me then how they treat me.
In fact, when people do treat me bad, I make sure I am EXTRA nice to them...maybe it will make them judge people by how they are, not what they look like. Or maybe it'll just make them feel guilty about how they treated me
I have to say, at my one and only coin show to date...only one person there treated me badly based on the way I looked. I found that to be remarkable!
Edited to add: I have had one dealer, a local, tell me that I couldn't afford something. I don't hold it against him...it was a genuine Massachussetts (Perhaps spelled wrong) Pine Tree Shilling...I asked about it not more then 5 minutes after explaining I am on a limited income and can't afford a lot of coins. LOL
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
One rude line that I've had dropped on me twice in my life when I asked to see something was, "You can't afford that!" >>
I must look like I have more money than I really do. (Neither BigFoot or Turtles have much!
<< <i>I've only blacklisted one dealer.
He frequents local shows, and on one Saturday afternoon I was at his table at the annual coin show, and I was looking for a roll of Statehood quarters to finish up my album for the year. There were three or four other customers at his table, and I waited patiently for about 10 minutes, trying to get the dealer's attention so I could ask permission to look at his quarter rolls, which he had sitting out on his table. After waiting, I finally just reached down and picked up the roll to see if it was the state I needed. The dealer immediately took the roll from my hands and hid it back behind his table, and went back to dealing with another customer. He didn't say a word. I avoid him like the plague ever since. >>
a) Maybe he was swamped, being the only guy at the table and already dealing with 4 others. See E.
b) Maybe he doesn't want people just grabbing stuff without asking. See D.
c) Maybe the rolls weren't his, or not for sale. See D.
d) Maybe you could have just politely asked "Excuse me, I know you're busy, but are these for sale?" rather than just standing around waiting for recognition.
e) Maybe you could have just come back later when he wasn't busy.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I went into the shop with my wife's busted charm bracelet. It was 51.5 grams of 14kt and she didnt want it anymore. Anyway, the owner asked me how much I wanted for it as I handed it over to him. I said $650. He laughed (you know that type of laugh...the kind meant to imply YOU are an idiot), and said "the best I can do is $375". I politely said no thanks and then added that it melted at around $775. He then looks at me and asks how I got THAT number...as if lying, theiving dealers are the only ones in the world capable of calculating such "complex" arithmetic. "Well, its 51.5 grams of 14kt. With gold currently at $800/oz, melt value on 585 or 14kt gold is right at 15 bucks. Multiply that by 51.5 grams and you get $775....I realize you need to make a profit, so I want $650, or 85% of melt value". The look on his face was worth the trip into the store!!! He then sets the piece on his scale behind the counter and promptly states...."This is NOT 51.5 grams, its 47.5 grams!"....to which I reply, "Jesse, I weighed it before I left home on a scale accurate to 1/100th of a gram". He then gets right up close in my face and loudly says "MY SCALE COSTS $2,000...IT WEIGHS AIR!!!!!". I then ask him if I may look at the reading on his scale and he says no of course. He then punches away at his calculator and says..."ok, I can give you $475, and thats it". I say, "just gimmie the bracelet back Jesse, I have another place that will pay my asking price". Then he rudely starts questioning me and again says my weight was wrong. I ask him why he is so intent on ripping me off when I come into his shop at least once a month, and his partner just kind of lowers his head as I glance over at him. There are other customers in the store, and this has now escalated WAY past what either of us wanted im sure. I once again ask him for the bracelet back and he asks me what the lowest im willing to take is. I finally say that I can negotiate, how about that $650 in trade. He agrees and I walk out with a pretty decent higher grade $5 Lib.
This is the geographically closest shop to me, and its a shame that I wouldnt even consider buying from him again unless it was to cherrypick him.
P.S.---I get home from the laborious ordeal and whats the very 1st thing I do? I set 5 U.S. nickels onto my digital scale and it reads 25.00 grams. Not only was he a ripoff man, but a LIAR as well!
<< <i>"You can't judge a book by it's cover." I guess my cover, which was nearly and cleanly dressed both times (I was wearing a sport coat and tie the time I was in my 20s) didn't llok prosperous enough to them.
Perhaps you'd have had better luck were you fully dressed.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution