1969 S DDO Lincoln.. what do you think this one's worth

Gription · February 10, 2010 7:51AM

this little holy grail has been offered to me.. but since it's so rare, putting a fair offer in is going to be a challenge. i don't want to pay too much, but i don't want to insult the guy either. i need to come up with a number in the next few days basically.

it belongs to an 80 year old man that found it in circulation.. not sure how long ago. not sure if that helps, but it's info.

here's some old auctions i've come across

# 1969-S 1C Doubled Die MS64 Red PCGS. Sold for $126,500. - 1/08
# 1969-S 1C Doubled Die Obverse MS63 Red PCGS. Sold for $86,250. - 3/09
# 1969-S 1C Doubled Die MS63 Brown NGC. Sold for $48,875. - 12/08
# 1969-S 1C Doubled Die Obverse AU58 PCGS. Sold for $44,862. - 1/09
# 1969-S 1C Doubled Die MS62 Brown PCGS. Sold for $43,700. - 3/04
# 1969-S 1C Doubled Die MS61 Brown PCGS. Sold for $39,100. - 2005
# 1969-S 1C Doubled Die Obverse MS64 Red and Brown PCGS. Sold for $36,800. - 2005
private sale PCGS EF 45 $22,000. - 2007

and apparently in 'coin values' magazine, it's listed at $10k in XF, $15k in AU

your thoughts?

thank you

oh, and the issues on the obverse... that seems to be a gummy thing, or some form of corrosion.. it looks like if it was a regular penny i could probably get rid of it, but i don't want to mess with it. the reverse appears to be straight corrosion.

jessecarlk · February 10, 2010 7:55AM

Wow! I don't know what I would do either.

commoncents05 · February 10, 2010 7:56AM

Assuming that gunk comes off (and I would send it in to get that stuff removed) I think between $40-50,000.

-Paul

SNMAN · February 10, 2010 8:04AM

All I know is that it is way way above my budget.

Nice finger print too

Good Luck!

Manorcourtman · February 10, 2010 8:06AM

I wouldn't touch it before it was authenticated by a Professional!! Too many good fake errors out there and you are going to spend a boatload of $$ even if it has issues. Get a professional opinion!!!

tahoe98 · February 10, 2010 8:06AM

....offer to have it slabbed and then send it to an auction and split the takings!

Gription · February 10, 2010 8:09AM

do you think it'd slab AS IS? PCGS?

golfer72 · February 10, 2010 8:10AM

"Too many good fake errors out there " A fake Doubled die?

Gription · February 10, 2010 8:12AM

they do exist.. but this has been cross checked with my books, it's legit

keets · February 10, 2010 8:12AM

PM sent.

tahoe98 · February 10, 2010 8:13AM

<< "Too many good fake errors out there " A fake Doubled die?

>>

....when you're in the business of counterfeiting/fakes a doubled die would be a nice challenge!

BillJones · February 10, 2010 8:15AM

It looks like an MS-60, Red from the photos. Fooling with it could make it look worse. I'd say $40 or $50 grand, but to the right registry person, it could bring another $10 or $20 more.

Are these things on the registry?

The last one I handled was an AU with some red, and the price was in the $8 to $9 grand neighborhood. But that was almost ten years ago.

TwoSides2aCoin · February 10, 2010 8:23AM

Five figures is a broad range, but that's what I'd say in public. Ask the owner what he's thinking

.

Gription · February 10, 2010 8:26AM

he just wants to sell it for a fair price.. no numbers came up in conversation

gonzer · February 10, 2010 8:34AM

I've owned one, that's the Real McCoy.

JRocco · February 10, 2010 8:34AM

Hey Gription,
How are you?
This coin is one of those special varieties that you should buy if you could. These are TOUGH, as you know.
With that said, this coin appears to have a few issues. I think I see some scratches around LIBERTY and those spots are troublesome. But of an even greater concern is the surface does not look stable on this one. I think this one could look a lot worse before it looks better if it is not conserved at this time,
This one should ONLY see professional conservation. I would not try to do anything on my own. The spots look active and if so, will only get worse. I am not sure if that is corrosion forming on the obverse rim at K2-3, but if so, that is not good. The rims usually hold up much better than the fields.
I would talk to this gentleman and see if he would allow you to send this in for conservation/protection at your cost, then discuss possible values based on the results of the conservation.
Talk to PCGS and see what they can do for you, if not, NGC.
With a stable coin you are in the 40-45K range with this one AS LONG AS those are not grade busting scratches on the obverse.
Good luck to you and I hope you can add this monster to your collection....I would love to add her to mine if the funds were available at this time.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · February 10, 2010 9:00AM

The coin appears conservable and could probably come out very attractive if done well. High AUish. The scratches near LIBERTY don't appear too bad but that's just judging from the pics.

Since you're taking a risk buying it raw, in unconserved form, I'd say that $22.5k would be a fair, wholesale offer. If the guy is willing to have it conserved and graded, assuming it grades either AU55 or 58, I'd say $30k-$35k would be right.

crazyhounddog · February 10, 2010 9:10AM

WOW! Looks like the real deal!!

kurtdog · February 10, 2010 9:10AM

OK I'll be the first rattle out of the cradle on the grade. I'll call it a high EF pushing low AU condition-wise and net it down to EF40-ish for the issues, but no lower than that (after all, it is the king of the Memorial DDOs). I'd of course let the issues alone if I got it (let the pros opine on and deal with that). Were I the potential buyer, I don't care too much about the issues on that reverse. That obverse fingerprint and corrosion on that 9 does bother me, though. What I think you really need to do at this point is see some good pictures of those auction comparables, make some reasonable market adjustments, and figure your offer that way. I know you said you're crowded for time, but the last thing I'd imagine you'd want to do is make an offer on impulse on a coin like this. I'd just tell that to the guy and see if he wouldn't be agreeable to holding it back for you for a few more days to enable you to figure a fair offer. All that aside from the all-important authentication issue, as aforementioned. That should be done, definitely (first thing, IMO).

ProofCents · February 10, 2010 9:12AM

I would pay $25K or so not much more

ProofCents · February 10, 2010 9:13AM

That is after i make sure its genuine

NotSure · February 10, 2010 9:16AM

PLEASE tell me that is some sort of carpet that it's on!!!!!!!

tradedollarnut · February 10, 2010 9:29AM

raw, with all the risk it won't grade - I'd say $20k

Gription · February 10, 2010 9:40AM

haha it's just a mat thing on top of one of the counters at the shop, no big whoop.. besides the stray strands in pics it's nothing to worry about

my plan is to buy it, send it in to get fixed up, then send it into pcgs and get a grade... hopefully a few months from now this thread will be updated with pics of a proper slab

i'm the go to lincoln guy at work.. as a lincoln *freak*, today was THE highlight in my lincoln adventures. i've handled some big coins, but to hold this in my hand today was overwhelming.. i never really expected to even see one, much less get the chance to own one

to boot i've got a 70 s ddo, i can't wait to introduce them to each other

pakasmom · February 10, 2010 10:05AM

<< PLEASE tell me that is some sort of carpet that it's on!!!!!!! >>

NotSure · February 10, 2010 10:13AM

haha it's just a mat thing on top of one of the counters at the shop, no big whoop

WHEW!

Gription · February 10, 2010 10:33AM

<< do you think it'd slab AS IS? PCGS? >>

not the 'genuine' slab, i mean a real slab... any chance of it?

it's NCS destined aint it :?

ChrisRx · February 10, 2010 10:42AM

$22.5k

$25k minus the pube

TwoSides2aCoin · February 10, 2010 10:50AM

You just gave me an idea. Thanks.

Walkerguy21D · February 10, 2010 11:06AM

I agree it needs conserved and authenticated.
Re: several comments questioning fake double dies, I would add that fake 1955 double dies abound, and some of them are very good. At a show last year, I overheard two dealers discussing that Randy Campbell was aware of three different versions of fake 1955's that he had seen.
Of course, I'm in no way challenging or accusing this 80 year old fellow who apparently found it in circulation....I'm just saying that if I was paying ~$20k for ANY coin, I'd make darn sure it was genuine, even if QD Bowers was offering it to me

yellowjacket · February 10, 2010 11:23AM

I would certainly try acetone on the date. No blood, no foul. If the gunk is organic and not etched into the coin, it should dissolve. You may be disappointed if you attempt to "conserve" this coin, otherwise.

Given the condition of the coin, it seems you all are very generous in your offers. A fair price "as is" in its raw state (with you assuming all the risk) would be in the 15-18K region IMO.
Garrow

WaterSport · February 10, 2010 11:34AM

OK, my Double two cents. Acetone that green spot as suggested. If it comes off, Swab the rest and I m thinking you got a 63 R&B example. Or at a minimum a $40,000 coin. Barter up from there.
WS

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · February 10, 2010 12:01PM

I agree with Tradedollarnut ! This coin has environmmental damage. In order to conserve it the skin needs to come off otherwise it will further deteriorate. It will then need to be retoned to a pleasing brown color. Any attempt to try and keep full red color will result in an unnatural shade of red.
This coin in a genuine holder with uncirculated details has at least a $20,000 value.

Stewart

DRUNNER · February 10, 2010 12:14PM

Whenever I have difficulty falling asleep at night, I just simply dream about finding one of these in circulation. You KNOW they are out there . . in cedar drawers with a few other Memorials . . . in a piggy bank sitting under a bed . . . or just rolling around under the seat of a car.

Wow . . . to find one in circulation. No reason to doubt that at all. Yes, authenticate, but you have it one authority from actual owners here that this one is real.

Wow . . . . .

Drunner

NotSure · February 10, 2010 12:31PM

You just gave me an idea. Thanks

I don't know if I want to ask what that idea is, considering..... nah, never mind!

Bochiman · February 10, 2010 3:19PM

How many PMs offering to purchase it for melt?

Gription · February 10, 2010 8:39PM

<< 

<< do you think it'd slab AS IS? PCGS? >>

not the 'genuine' slab, i mean a real slab... any chance of it? >>

this is my main question now.. i think i know what i'm going to offer, but i'm wondering if NCS is a must

i probably should get it dolled up regardless huh.. even if pcgs accepted it as is, ncs treatment would boost the points

thank you all for the input

Gription · February 10, 2010 8:42PM

<< I would certainly try acetone on the date. >>

i NEVER mess with 'home remedies' but i know a couple guys that i look up to that have NO problem doing it. do you *really* think i can take care of this on my own?

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · February 10, 2010 9:15PM

Gription - Believe me NCS is the WRONG PLACE TO SEND COPPER FOR CONSERVATION.

STEWART

Tdec1000 · February 10, 2010 10:55PM

I agree with Stewart on this one....while I have seen some come back from NCS ok they still look stripped and lifeless when they come back. I would ask him where to send it. Maybe he has some ideas as he has been doing copper for a long time.

Tom

DCW · February 11, 2010 12:19AM

If you have the funds, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. These dont come around that often, let alone in "affordable" grades! I don't find the spots that distracting, but maybe Im compensating because this is truely a coin one dreams about.
It's hard to believe how much the price on these exploded over the past ten years. I believe it trades at 10x it's value circa 1999. And you already have the 70-s? What a pair!

tradedollarnut · February 11, 2010 12:26AM

<< Gription - Believe me NCS is the WRONG PLACE TO SEND COPPER FOR CONSERVATION.

STEWART >>

I agree with Stewart.

PonyExpress8 · February 11, 2010 3:13AM

So what other conservation alternatives are out there if NCS is not a good idea TDN and Stewart?

I think many of us would like to know. My PM is on!

I tend to agree with TDN's earlier thought and number as well.

Bochiman · February 11, 2010 3:17AM

If you're going to buy it, take it to a show and have PCGS look at it in person and get their opinion if something could/should be professionally done to the coin....

GoldenEyeNumismatics · February 11, 2010 3:41AM

<< So what other conservation alternatives are out there if NCS is not a good idea TDN and Stewart?

I think many of us would like to know. My PM is on!

I tend to agree with TDN's earlier thought and number as well. >>

PM sent

tradedollarnut · February 11, 2010 4:30AM

If the coin were sent to NCS with strict instructions to use nothing but acetone on it to remove the gunk on the reverse, then IMO it would be ok.

Gription · February 11, 2010 5:00AM

if the gunk on the obverse wasn't there, do you think it would slab? or are the spots on the reverse too much

tradedollarnut · February 11, 2010 5:02AM

<< if the gunk on the obverse wasn't there, do you think it would slab? or are the spots on the reverse too much >>

IMO, a rarity like that will receive alllll the benefit of the doubt in order to holder it.

Gription · February 11, 2010 5:04AM

i found a penny in my change dish that had pretty much the same stuff on it.. came off no problem

i think i'll start with a q-tip and some soapy water.. see what happens

BigRick · February 11, 2010 5:10AM

Even in a PCGS genny it's worth AT LEAST 20k.

If it slabs mint state (it looks 62RD if PCGS didn't AU58 it) I'd say at least double that.

Shamika · February 11, 2010 5:11AM

Looks AU58. I'd go $10k

1969 S DDO Lincoln.. what do you think this one's worth

Comments

Leave a Comment