Home U.S. Coin Forum

1969 S DDO Lincoln.. what do you think this one's worth

this little holy grail has been offered to me.. but since it's so rare, putting a fair offer in is going to be a challenge. i don't want to pay too much, but i don't want to insult the guy either. i need to come up with a number in the next few days basically.

it belongs to an 80 year old man that found it in circulation.. not sure how long ago. not sure if that helps, but it's info.

image
image
image
image
image
image

here's some old auctions i've come across

# 1969-S 1C Doubled Die MS64 Red PCGS. Sold for $126,500. - 1/08
# 1969-S 1C Doubled Die Obverse MS63 Red PCGS. Sold for $86,250. - 3/09
# 1969-S 1C Doubled Die MS63 Brown NGC. Sold for $48,875. - 12/08
# 1969-S 1C Doubled Die Obverse AU58 PCGS. Sold for $44,862. - 1/09
# 1969-S 1C Doubled Die MS62 Brown PCGS. Sold for $43,700. - 3/04
# 1969-S 1C Doubled Die MS61 Brown PCGS. Sold for $39,100. - 2005
# 1969-S 1C Doubled Die Obverse MS64 Red and Brown PCGS. Sold for $36,800. - 2005
private sale PCGS EF 45 $22,000. - 2007

and apparently in 'coin values' magazine, it's listed at $10k in XF, $15k in AU



your thoughts?

thank you


oh, and the issues on the obverse... that seems to be a gummy thing, or some form of corrosion.. it looks like if it was a regular penny i could probably get rid of it, but i don't want to mess with it. the reverse appears to be straight corrosion.

«1

Comments

  • Wow! I don't know what I would do either.
    imageimageimage
  • commoncents05commoncents05 Posts: 10,077 ✭✭✭
    Assuming that gunk comes off (and I would send it in to get that stuff removed) I think between $40-50,000.

    -Paul
    Many Quality coins for sale at http://www.CommonCentsRareCoins.com
  • SNMANSNMAN Posts: 1,401 ✭✭✭
    All I know is that it is way way above my budget.

    Nice finger print tooimage

    Good Luck!


    Positive Transactions with: justindan; Drunner; Segoja, Dragon, fivecents, Connecticoin, WTCG, gsa1fan, abitofthisabitofthat; commoncents05;Broadstruck; and ......more
  • ManorcourtmanManorcourtman Posts: 7,891 ✭✭✭✭
    I wouldn't touch it before it was authenticated by a Professional!! Too many good fake errors out there and you are going to spend a boatload of $$ even if it has issues. Get a professional opinion!!!
  • tahoe98tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭


    ....offer to have it slabbed and then send it to an auction and split the takings! image
    "government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
  • do you think it'd slab AS IS? PCGS?
  • "Too many good fake errors out there " A fake Doubled die? image
  • they do exist.. but this has been cross checked with my books, it's legit
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    PM sent.
  • tahoe98tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭


    << <i>"Too many good fake errors out there " A fake Doubled die? image >>



    ....when you're in the business of counterfeiting/fakes a doubled die would be a nice challenge! image
    "government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,427 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It looks like an MS-60, Red from the photos. Fooling with it could make it look worse. I'd say $40 or $50 grand, but to the right registry person, it could bring another $10 or $20 more.

    Are these things on the registry?

    The last one I handled was an AU with some red, and the price was in the $8 to $9 grand neighborhood. But that was almost ten years ago.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,794 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Five figures is a broad range, but that's what I'd say in public. Ask the owner what he's thinking image .
  • he just wants to sell it for a fair price.. no numbers came up in conversation
  • gonzergonzer Posts: 2,986 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've owned one, that's the Real McCoy.
  • JRoccoJRocco Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hey Gription,
    How are you?
    This coin is one of those special varieties that you should buy if you could. These are TOUGH, as you know.
    With that said, this coin appears to have a few issues. I think I see some scratches around LIBERTY and those spots are troublesome. But of an even greater concern is the surface does not look stable on this one. I think this one could look a lot worse before it looks better if it is not conserved at this time,
    This one should ONLY see professional conservation. I would not try to do anything on my own. The spots look active and if so, will only get worse. I am not sure if that is corrosion forming on the obverse rim at K2-3, but if so, that is not good. The rims usually hold up much better than the fields.
    I would talk to this gentleman and see if he would allow you to send this in for conservation/protection at your cost, then discuss possible values based on the results of the conservation.
    Talk to PCGS and see what they can do for you, if not, NGC.
    With a stable coin you are in the 40-45K range with this one AS LONG AS those are not grade busting scratches on the obverse.
    Good luck to you and I hope you can add this monster to your collection....I would love to add her to mine if the funds were available at this time.
    Some coins are just plain "Interesting"
  • The coin appears conservable and could probably come out very attractive if done well. High AUish. The scratches near LIBERTY don't appear too bad but that's just judging from the pics.


    Since you're taking a risk buying it raw, in unconserved form, I'd say that $22.5k would be a fair, wholesale offer. If the guy is willing to have it conserved and graded, assuming it grades either AU55 or 58, I'd say $30k-$35k would be right.
  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,776 ✭✭✭✭✭
    WOW! Looks like the real deal!!
    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • OK I'll be the first rattle out of the cradle on the grade. I'll call it a high EF pushing low AU condition-wise and net it down to EF40-ish for the issues, but no lower than that (after all, it is the king of the Memorial DDOs). I'd of course let the issues alone if I got it (let the pros opine on and deal with that). Were I the potential buyer, I don't care too much about the issues on that reverse. That obverse fingerprint and corrosion on that 9 does bother me, though. What I think you really need to do at this point is see some good pictures of those auction comparables, make some reasonable market adjustments, and figure your offer that way. I know you said you're crowded for time, but the last thing I'd imagine you'd want to do is make an offer on impulse on a coin like this. I'd just tell that to the guy and see if he wouldn't be agreeable to holding it back for you for a few more days to enable you to figure a fair offer. All that aside from the all-important authentication issue, as aforementioned. That should be done, definitely (first thing, IMO).
  • I would pay $25K or so not much more
  • That is after i make sure its genuine
  • NotSureNotSure Posts: 2,978 ✭✭✭
    PLEASE tell me that is some sort of carpet that it's on!!!!!!!
    I'll come up with something.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,146 ✭✭✭✭✭
    raw, with all the risk it won't grade - I'd say $20k
  • haha it's just a mat thing on top of one of the counters at the shop, no big whoop.. besides the stray strands in pics it's nothing to worry about


    my plan is to buy it, send it in to get fixed up, then send it into pcgs and get a grade... hopefully a few months from now this thread will be updated with pics of a proper slab


    i'm the go to lincoln guy at work.. as a lincoln *freak*, today was THE highlight in my lincoln adventures. i've handled some big coins, but to hold this in my hand today was overwhelming.. i never really expected to even see one, much less get the chance to own one


    to boot i've got a 70 s ddo, i can't wait to introduce them to each other


  • << <i>PLEASE tell me that is some sort of carpet that it's on!!!!!!! >>



    image
  • NotSureNotSure Posts: 2,978 ✭✭✭
    haha it's just a mat thing on top of one of the counters at the shop, no big whoop

    WHEW!
    I'll come up with something.


  • << <i>do you think it'd slab AS IS? PCGS? >>



    not the 'genuine' slab, i mean a real slab... any chance of it?







    it's NCS destined aint it :?
  • ChrisRxChrisRx Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭✭
    $22.5k

    $25k minus the pube

    image
    image
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,794 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You just gave me an idea. Thanks.
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,114 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree it needs conserved and authenticated.
    Re: several comments questioning fake double dies, I would add that fake 1955 double dies abound, and some of them are very good. At a show last year, I overheard two dealers discussing that Randy Campbell was aware of three different versions of fake 1955's that he had seen.
    Of course, I'm in no way challenging or accusing this 80 year old fellow who apparently found it in circulation....I'm just saying that if I was paying ~$20k for ANY coin, I'd make darn sure it was genuine, even if QD Bowers was offering it to me image
    Successful BST transactions with 170 members. Recent: Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • I would certainly try acetone on the date. No blood, no foul. If the gunk is organic and not etched into the coin, it should dissolve. You may be disappointed if you attempt to "conserve" this coin, otherwise.

    Given the condition of the coin, it seems you all are very generous in your offers. A fair price "as is" in its raw state (with you assuming all the risk) would be in the 15-18K region IMO.
    Garrow
  • WaterSportWaterSport Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭✭✭
    OK, my Double two cents. Acetone that green spot as suggested. If it comes off, Swab the rest and I m thinking you got a 63 R&B example. Or at a minimum a $40,000 coin. Barter up from there.
    WS
    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
  • STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭

    I agree with Tradedollarnut ! This coin has environmmental damage. In order to conserve it the skin needs to come off otherwise it will further deteriorate. It will then need to be retoned to a pleasing brown color. Any attempt to try and keep full red color will result in an unnatural shade of red.
    This coin in a genuine holder with uncirculated details has at least a $20,000 value.


    Stewart
  • DRUNNERDRUNNER Posts: 3,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Whenever I have difficulty falling asleep at night, I just simply dream about finding one of these in circulation. You KNOW they are out there . . in cedar drawers with a few other Memorials . . . in a piggy bank sitting under a bed . . . or just rolling around under the seat of a car.

    Wow . . . to find one in circulation. No reason to doubt that at all. Yes, authenticate, but you have it one authority from actual owners here that this one is real.

    Wow . . . . .

    Drunner

  • NotSureNotSure Posts: 2,978 ✭✭✭
    You just gave me an idea. Thanks

    I don't know if I want to ask what that idea is, considering..... nah, never mind!
    I'll come up with something.
  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,284 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How many PMs offering to purchase it for melt? image

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment



  • << <i>

    << <i>do you think it'd slab AS IS? PCGS? >>



    not the 'genuine' slab, i mean a real slab... any chance of it? >>



    this is my main question now.. i think i know what i'm going to offer, but i'm wondering if NCS is a must


    i probably should get it dolled up regardless huh.. even if pcgs accepted it as is, ncs treatment would boost the points




    thank you all for the input


  • << <i>I would certainly try acetone on the date. >>



    i NEVER mess with 'home remedies' but i know a couple guys that i look up to that have NO problem doing it. do you *really* think i can take care of this on my own?

  • STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭

    Gription - Believe me NCS is the WRONG PLACE TO SEND COPPER FOR CONSERVATION.

    STEWART
  • Tdec1000Tdec1000 Posts: 3,851 ✭✭✭
    I agree with Stewart on this one....while I have seen some come back from NCS ok they still look stripped and lifeless when they come back. I would ask him where to send it. Maybe he has some ideas as he has been doing copper for a long time.

    Tom
    Awarded the coveted "You Suck" Award on 22 Oct 2010 for finding a 1942/1 D Dime in silver, and on 7 Feb 2011 Cherrypicking a 1914 MPL Cent on Ebay!

    Successful BST Transactions!SIconbuster, Meltdown, Mission16, slothman2000, RGjohn, braddick, au58lover, allcoinsrule, commemdude, gerard, lablade, PCcoins, greencopper, kaz, tydye, cucamongacoin, mkman123, SeaEaglecoins, Doh!, AnkurJ, Airplanenut, ArizonaJack, JJM,Tee135,LordMarcovan, Swampboy, piecesofme, Ahrensdad,
  • DCWDCW Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you have the funds, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. These dont come around that often, let alone in "affordable" grades! I don't find the spots that distracting, but maybe Im compensating because this is truely a coin one dreams about.
    It's hard to believe how much the price on these exploded over the past ten years. I believe it trades at 10x it's value circa 1999. And you already have the 70-s? What a pair!

    Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
    "Coin collecting for outcasts..."

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,146 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Gription - Believe me NCS is the WRONG PLACE TO SEND COPPER FOR CONSERVATION.

    STEWART >>



    I agree with Stewart.
  • PonyExpress8PonyExpress8 Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭
    So what other conservation alternatives are out there if NCS is not a good idea TDN and Stewart?

    I think many of us would like to know. My PM is on!

    I tend to agree with TDN's earlier thought and number as well.
    The End of the Line in the West.

    Website-Americana Rare Coin Inc
  • BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,284 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you're going to buy it, take it to a show and have PCGS look at it in person and get their opinion if something could/should be professionally done to the coin....

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment



  • << <i>So what other conservation alternatives are out there if NCS is not a good idea TDN and Stewart?

    I think many of us would like to know. My PM is on!

    I tend to agree with TDN's earlier thought and number as well. >>



    PM sent
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,146 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If the coin were sent to NCS with strict instructions to use nothing but acetone on it to remove the gunk on the reverse, then IMO it would be ok.

  • if the gunk on the obverse wasn't there, do you think it would slab? or are the spots on the reverse too much


  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,146 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>if the gunk on the obverse wasn't there, do you think it would slab? or are the spots on the reverse too much >>



    IMO, a rarity like that will receive alllll the benefit of the doubt in order to holder it.
  • i found a penny in my change dish that had pretty much the same stuff on it.. came off no problem

    i think i'll start with a q-tip and some soapy water.. see what happens
  • Even in a PCGS genny it's worth AT LEAST 20k.

    If it slabs mint state (it looks 62RD if PCGS didn't AU58 it) I'd say at least double that.
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,759 ✭✭✭✭
    Looks AU58. I'd go $10k
    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file