<< <i>If PCGS wants to eliminate anonymity, then person profile information should be added according to the sign up information. Verifiable First Name and Last Name in a field that is not editable by the user. Maybe that would work. >>
I think a lot of people do not want their secret identities known, for the same reasons they want coin periodicals mailed in plain brown wrappers and conduct all their business through P.O. boxes.
Me at the Springfield coin show: 60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
Re: charging to post here. Previous posts here prove that this Board attracts future customers. Consider also the vastness of the Internet, a universe of free information. Web sites that provide free access to information often flourish; those that attempt to charge for access do not get very far.
Good deals with: goldman86 mkman123 Wingsrule wondercoin segoja Tccuga OKCC LindeDad and others.
1. The forum has elevated my interest and knowledge in coins, and for that I am grateful to PCGS. However, if it becomes too sterile and dull, I will likely drift away. I am not interested in debating how many reeds there are on the edge of a Wash quarter and other such arcane numismatic points.
2. I have made numerous coin-based friendships here, and for that I am also grateful. If rule changes force my coin friends out (or cause them to post less), I will likely drift away, too.
3. This forum has, in large part, been responsible for my significant brand loyalty to PCGS. Without stumbling upon it eight years ago, I am not sure that I would have ever become a loyal customer or fierce supporter of the brand.
4. Because of contacts made here, knowledge gained here, interests stoked here, and entertainment from participating here, literally hundreds of thousands of dollars have left my pocket and flowed to the coin business, with 75+ percent going into PCGS branded product.
5. I am not going to make silly ultimatums or threats, but I will say the following: if the forum changes in such a way that I no longer enjoy posting here, I will likely post here less, come here less, and participate less in related areas. I come here primarily for the fun of it, and if it is no fun, I am gone. The same goes with the coin hobby.
6. If my name is ever required to be attached to my posts, I am certainly done here. At times, I have revealed my identity to those I have chosen in this and other coin-related venues. Heck, I was written about in a recent Coin World article. I am fairly well known and not hard to find in coin circles. However, PCGS should not facilitate a would-be thief to easily find me. That said, I doubt that this is what they have in mind by eliminating anonymous posters.
7. I am not personally against a membership or nominal fee to participate in the forum. Like others, my participation in the forum is what encouraged me to be a longstanding member. Others might feel differently and may leave as a result. This could change the chemistry here in ways that make it more or less enjoyable to continue to participate.
I have always thought the BST forum should have a fee for using. A small charge per post on the BST forum would eliminate a lot of the problems over there and help support the costs associated with the rest of the forum.
>>>>> Actually I would love to restrict posting to this forum to PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers. No more anonymous posters. We are looking at upgrading our software to do that. >>
It looks like I'll be gone as well. >>
Ditto...!
QN >>
Me too.
I think if a lot of us are forced to "go somewhere else" for our forum "needs", then some of the other not-so-popular open coin forums will suddenly become "the place to be", instead of this one.
PCGS has marketed and branded their name as the "premier" tier-one TPG. Their slabs maintain their value better than any other TPG. The problem with "premier" businesses is that they sometimes take their customer base for granted. If you change your business model too rapidly or affect too large a portion of your customer base in a negative manner, you risk losing the "premier" rating.
I've been in management for over 25 years. It's frustrating at times when your "members" act out. At times, you have to bring them back to reality, but sometimes management over reacts too. If you take away your members guarantee for cents, they'll act out. If people who consistently judge others as the forum morality police aren't kept in check, they'll act out. If you post an ultimatum that you will start enforcing the rules that have always been in place NOW when they haven't been enforced in the past or have been selectively enforced, they'll act out.
My collection is 100% PCGS/PSA. I used to purchase NGC slabs, since they were less expensive and have a, what I believe to be, more professional appearance. This forum changed my collecting patterns to PCGS exclusively. I don't collect cents, but I do feel that you can view a companies forum and determine what type of company they represent. The guarantee doesn't affect me, but the banter and diatribe on this forum does. I see more harm in the morality police than I do in the collector base that has fun amongst themselves.
1. The forum has elevated my interest and knowledge in coins, and for that I am grateful to PCGS. However, if it becomes too sterile and dull, I will likely drift away. I am not interested in debating how many reeds there are on the edge of a Wash quarter and other such arcane numismatic points.
2. I have made numerous coin-based friendships here, and for that I am also grateful. If rule changes force my coin friends out (or cause them to post less), I will likely drift away, too.
3. This forum has, in large part, been responsible for my significant brand loyalty to PCGS. Without stumbling upon it eight years ago, I am not sure that I would have ever become a loyal customer or fierce supporter of the brand.
4. Because of contacts made here, knowledge gained here, interests stoked here, and entertainment from participating here, literally hundreds of thousands of dollars have left my pocket and flowed to the coin business, with 75+ percent going into PCGS branded product.
5. I am not going to make silly ultimatums or threats, but I will say the following: if the forum changes in such a way that I no longer enjoy posting here, I will likely post here less, come here less, and participate less in related areas. I come here primarily for the fun of it, and if it is no fun, I am gone. The same goes with the coin hobby.
6. If my name is ever required to be attached to my posts, I am certainly done here. At times, I have revealed my identity to those I have chosen in this and other coin-related venues. Heck, I was written about in a recent Coin World article. I am fairly well known and not hard to find in coin circles. However, PCGS should not facilitate a would-be thief to easily find me. That said, I doubt that this is what they have in mind by eliminating anonymous posters. >>
RYK --- Thank you for your post. I was contemplating how to respond to all of this "new" info... and you summed up my thoughts and feelings very well... in other words ... ditto for your second post with item #7...
I especially identify and agree with point #5...
Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free
After I discovered this board and joined, read several posts and made numerous friends I decided to pay my fees and submit coins. Had I done it the opposite way I would have submitted many coins that didn't deserve to be submitted. I would have felt negative about that experience. I would think long and hard about limiting this board to dues paying members and dealers. In my example you would have cut off a paying member and I would guess that I am not the only one who was encouraged to join due to their participation in this boards. If you are currently satisfied with your rate of submissions then I agree limit board participation to paying members. If not then continue to find ways to make these boards a good marketing tool for the company. Having run a few companies one thing I know for sure is listen to your customers (what better way than a board) and don't make decisions based on emotion that can reflect on your bottom line.
Having said that I agree with the rules posted here however automatically banning someone for a first offense, especially one not made to incite might be a little heavy handed.
On a final note Don as I no longer submit coins or only through a dealer I still encourage friends, new collectors, and young collectors to visit your site and discuss at length with them the advantages of joining. I find irony in that a couple of dealers who recommend that only dues payers belong would have not found some new clients had I not joined and recommended them. Dealers be careful what you wish for.
I joined here first, learned a little about PCGS and submitting coins, and then purchased membership. I surely would not have joined without having access to the boards first.
If PCGS makes the ridiculous mistake (MHO of course) of restricting participation in these forums to members of their paid services then all of the people that are not paying customers will simply go elsewhere.
As of right now I certainly can't argue the point that CU sports the best, most active US coins message board around and that the BST here is an excellent tool for collectors. That said, the internet is vast and ever changing and PCGS certainly is not the only game in town. If they choose to exclude people simply for preferring to spend discretionary income on coins rather than memberships they will lose those people - and there are quite a few of us.
A point to ponder, Mr. Willis: the only coins I have ever sent to PCGS were sent through a member of this forum. I have never been a paid member of PCGS, but I have paid PCGS grading fees on several occasions. If I was excluded from participation in these forums for being a nonmember, PCGS never would have gotten anything from me.
So is it better to exclude the free riders in order to achieve some semblance of control and simplicity or better to keep them and gain the direct benefit of submission fees and the indirect benefits of expert information and advice?
I hope you choose wisely.
"YOU SUCK!" Awarded by nankraut/renomedphys 6/13/13 - MadMarty dissents
I came here and joined right away. No lurking. No trying to figure out if its good value or not. I am free to post or not post.
If I enjoy my hobby more by buying whitman folders, coin flips, staples for my 2 x2's, numismatic books, subsciptions to coin world and cdn, much less purchase coins at whatever level,.............. what is the big deal about paying some nominal fee to join this premier message board with some of the greatest collectors and numismatists on the planet?
Seriously?
What am trying to understand is the attitude that says 'no, I won't join and pay' .
Its a no brainer for me.
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
If they restricted this forum to "members" only, as a shareholder, I would be upset, and doing so would result in less profit. I suspect that PCGS's leading source for new and renewal Collectors Club memberships results from participation in this forum.
<< <i>It sounds nice and it makes us feel good, but I fully believe -- and this is just a guess -- that if we were privy to the number-crunching that PCGS executives have no doubt already done on this portion of their business, the bottom line would in fact be red. I for one am hugely grateful for what we've been lucky to have so far. >>
I would guess the opposite is true. I submit hundreds of coins to PCGS every year, and would not have done so without this forum. If fact, if they restricted membership, much of my business would likely go to NGC.
Gee....!!!....If I have to pay a buck a month to keep this forum alive and well as it is ....maybe we can bring back the OF as well....!!!!..just a thought...
<< <i>I would need to have the coin in hand to tell, but the luster (eye appeal) may be lacking. If the luster is there it has a 64 look, just an opinion! >>
Watch out, are you questioning the grade assigned by PCGS?
<< <i>im curious what some would consider a nominal fee. And how many would pay it. Perhaps someone who is more skilled can post a poll. >>
Nominal fee was not mentioned except by two posters above.
"PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers" was mentioned. Presumably "Members" means membership in the Collectors Club at $49/$129/$199 per year. I have no idea what "Subscribers" are as much as I have no idea who "anonymous posters" are.
No wait, I have no idea who RYK or Langacre are.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>im curious what some would consider a nominal fee. And how many would pay it. Perhaps someone who is more skilled can post a poll. >>
Nominal fee was not mentioned except by two posters above.
"PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers" was mentioned. Presumably "Members" means membership in the Collectors Club at $49/$129/$199 per year. I have no idea what "Subscribers" are as much as I have no idea who "anonymous posters" are.
No wait, I have no idea who RYK or Langacre are. >>
I know who ryk is, but I never heard of Langacre.
Before making any draconian changes, it might be wise for Don to have a conference call with representative members of the forum to exchange ideas. I fear that PCGS management has never really appreciated how significant the forum has been in building and maintaining its brand, nor has it really harnassed the forum to further its business interests.
1. The forum has elevated my interest and knowledge in coins, and for that I am grateful to PCGS. However, if it becomes too sterile and dull, I will likely drift away. I am not interested in debating how many reeds there are on the edge of a Wash quarter and other such arcane numismatic points.
2. I have made numerous coin-based friendships here, and for that I am also grateful. If rule changes force my coin friends out (or cause them to post less), I will likely drift away, too.
3. This forum has, in large part, been responsible for my significant brand loyalty to PCGS. Without stumbling upon it eight years ago, I am not sure that I would have ever become a loyal customer or fierce supporter of the brand.
4. Because of contacts made here, knowledge gained here, interests stoked here, and entertainment from participating here, literally hundreds of thousands of dollars have left my pocket and flowed to the coin business, with 75+ percent going into PCGS branded product.
5. I am not going to make silly ultimatums or threats, but I will say the following: if the forum changes in such a way that I no longer enjoy posting here, I will likely post here less, come here less, and participate less in related areas. I come here primarily for the fun of it, and if it is no fun, I am gone. The same goes with the coin hobby.
6. If my name is ever required to be attached to my posts, I am certainly done here. At times, I have revealed my identity to those I have chosen in this and other coin-related venues. Heck, I was written about in a recent Coin World article. I am fairly well known and not hard to find in coin circles. However, PCGS should not facilitate a would-be thief to easily find me. That said, I doubt that this is what they have in mind by eliminating anonymous posters. >>
I fully agree with the esteemed gentleman from St. Louis. This is very well written.
Always took candy from strangers Didn't wanna get me no trade Never want to be like papa Working for the boss every night and day --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
7. I am not personally against a membership or nominal fee to participate in the forum. Like others, my participation in the forum is what encouraged me to be a longstanding member. Others might feel differently and may leave as a result. This could change the chemistry here in ways that make it more or less enjoyable to continue to participate.
I have always thought the BST forum should have a fee for using. A small charge per post on the BST forum would eliminate a lot of the problems over there and help support the costs associated with the rest of the forum. >>
<< <i>It sounds nice and it makes us feel good, but I fully believe -- and this is just a guess -- that if we were privy to the number-crunching that PCGS executives have no doubt already done on this portion of their business, the bottom line would in fact be red. I for one am hugely grateful for what we've been lucky to have so far. >>
I would guess the opposite is true. I submit hundreds of coins to PCGS every year, and would not have done so without this forum. If fact, if they restricted membership, much of my business would likely go to NGC. >>
I'd call that bluff. Sending to NGC when you have PCGS is only shooting yourself in the foot. Go ahead!
<< <i>"Actually I would love to restrict posting to this forum to PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers. No more anonymous posters. We are looking at upgrading our software to do that."
I think that restricting access to these boards to PCGS members and dealers would be major mistake. In the past I have submitted coins to PCGS for grading, but it has only been through a PCGS dealer. As of now I almost never submit coins for grading because all of the good raw stuff in my collection has been graded, and as a collector I don’t buy expensive, raw U.S. coins any more. There are just too many hassles. I buy the coin in the holder that I want in the first place.
Given that I think that PCGS should know that I have spent several hundred thousand dollars on PCGS coins over the last three years. That money that I spent contributed to the demand for high end U.S. coins in PCGS holders, which enhanced the market value of your product. You should bear that in mind before you turn this forum into a closed society.
PCGS paid membership makes no economic sense to me. I have no coins to submit for grading, and I can obtain much of the information services elsewhere for free or from my personal numismatic library.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
<< <i>im curious what some would consider a nominal fee. And how many would pay it. Perhaps someone who is more skilled can post a poll. >>
Nominal fee was not mentioned except by two posters above.
"PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers" was mentioned. Presumably "Members" means membership in the Collectors Club at $49/$129/$199 per year. I have no idea what "Subscribers" are as much as I have no idea who "anonymous posters" are.
No wait, I have no idea who RYK or Langacre are. >>
I know who ryk is, but I never heard of Langacre.
Before making any draconian changes, it might be wise for Don to have a conference call with representative members of the forum to exchange ideas. I fear that PCGS management has never really appreciated how significant the forum has been in building and maintaining its brand, nor has it really harnassed the forum to further its business interests. >>
Reed my sigline.............stpid keyboard!
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Coins are inherently boring. It is the stories about them, their histories, transactions, finds, etc., which make them interesting to me.
I get a chuckle now whenever I find a 2009 penny in change. I always think of Longacre's first find, when buying an overpriced BLT sandwich on his only lunch break all year, working for the Man, and my first find, on the floor of the bathroom in the hospital.
In these types of posts are no longer welcome here, I am no longer welcome here.
I prefer PCGS slabs and have submitted to PCGS many times, however, I submit through a dealer friend and never directly. I hope they don't make this a paid-member only board as I have been coming here for years (but just recently started to post).
I'm in the same boat as you. I like PCGS and enjoy getting my occasional coin slabbed through a third party (one of the reasons is because I live in the UK). If this board becomes members only its adios from me.
As for the boards costing a lot to run? I have a board forum on my website it costs £10 a month ($25) for the server and an occasional annual fee of approx $50 I think to ip.boards. I know this is a busier board and you might have to pay the moderators but if you take into account the money generated by the advertising and like others say ideas given I'd be hard pushed to see how it is making a loss.
<< <i>Restricting this to PCGS members only would be silly.... This site will be missing out on a LOT of kowledge out there. >>
I agree with the general point about not limiting the boards to PCGS members. People aren't going to pay to join PCGS just to use these boards when there are other free boards out there. The only effect you'll have is that the quantity and quality of posts will go down. I think these boards, as long as they are somewhat moderated, are a major plus for PCGS and create a lot of good will in the hobby. Please keep them open to everyone.
"Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
A couple of points. First, a paid membership doesn't exclude anyone from reading and enjoying these forums. ars technica forums are extremely popular yet required a paid membership before a participant is allowed to post. I have never done so but have enjoyed the threads on this forums for years- all without contributing via a paid membership.
Secondly, perhaps we are also missing the bigger picture. With a paid membership PCGS would then possibly open the forums up to innovative ideas presented by the membership to enhance the forums and members experience here, and thus cause those that are lurking to pony up and become members. This may even include the addition of a new and improved Open Forum.
Collectors in general don't like change. We get comfortable with what we have (case in point: all the changes eBay has made over the years...). PCGS is ripe for serious modifications (read: possible new holder) and this would be an excellent time to roll out a new U.S. Coin Forum.
Thank you RYK for having the guts to write what you did. I fully agree with you. Over the last year and a half of posting I have learned so much about coins, their rarities, types, grades, errors, and just about everything else about them as well. Some of our members here are EXTREMELY helpful anytime I have a question. They are pleasant and informative and always have a smile when I see them at shows.
At yesterdays Parsippany show I saw and exchanged ideas with at least 3 different forum members. The relationships build with these people all started out on these boards here. Whether from asking questions about grades or ideas- or even about if the steelers will win in the upcoming games.
There are many posters here that have other jobs- but enjoy posting here because it is a hobby that they enjoy. We on these boards are comprised of Lawyers, doctors, Bears, investers, bankers, attorneys,whales, salesmen, husbands, fathers, wives, sardines, mothers, college students, other students, and even some YN'S. (and plenty others).
Each one comes from a whole different world. Each can teach us so much about life. And what is the one thing that brings us all together? its the fact that we love coins and the hobby.
we are all one large family (so to say) (except for that guy that...). Personally, I read most of the posts on these boards even if they arent 100% coin related. why? because they are still informative and they can teach each of us things about the poster as well as life.
commenting and building these relationships with different members have led me (as well as many other Im sure) to come to trust certain dealers and members.
I enjoy almost every post on this forum. Whether its about "the man", "the steelers" or even "how many Jelly doughnuts does it take to get to belly of a bear before he is satisfied". Each poster I feel- has something to add to life and especially this hobby.
Yes the boards are more cluttered, but they ARE also more interesting.
I definetly am no big name around here. I definetly wouldnt want to not be allowed back.
I just feel that all these "illegal posts" is what made this forum so great.
Based on what others have said I see they disagree.
to bad for me I guess.
I will miss it. -joe
ps- I know I was not congruent in my post, but I hope you (the reader) understand what I meant.
These forums don't directly make money for PCGS (except for the advertising banners), but they do two things that are positive for PCGS's business. First, they increase awareness of the PCGS product and make it the "default" product for many collectors. Second, and equally important, they stimulate interest in the hobby, which is good for PCGS in the long run. It's hard to quantify that, but you can read the anecdotal posts of how much money people have spent on coins/grading since they got "lured in" by these boards.
"Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
<< <i>A couple of points. First, a paid membership doesn't exclude anyone from reading and enjoying these forums. ars technica forums are extremely popular yet required a paid membership before a participant is allowed to post. I have never done so but have enjoyed the threads on this forums for years- all without contributing via a paid membership. >>
Huh? Perhaps it went "free" after you first started lurking?
Nevermind, I see where you can upgrade to an ARS Premier account for a fee.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Before making any draconian changes, it might be wise for Don to have a conference call with representative members of the forum to exchange ideas. I fear that PCGS management has never really appreciated how significant the forum has been in building and maintaining its brand, nor has it really harnassed the forum to further its business interests. >>
I thought three years ago the boards might have this fundamental threat. There are many reasons that PCGS is the premier grading company but they don't appreciate either the short nor the long term value of these boards. They got to where they are before the boards and consider them a mere adjunct. As Darktone said we are the center of the coin collecting uni- verse. Many are drawn here for other reasons but they stay because everything revolves around the forums. The value of this is incalculable but that hardly means it's worthless.
The simple fact is that people will leave if a charge is levied to stay. Of course everyone won't leave but it would be a massive blow and some will find the other sites suddenly more inter- esting. Even members would be spending more time at other sites. This place could easily lose the gravity that makes it the center.
Before making any draconian changes, it might be wise for Don to have a conference call with representative members of the forum to exchange ideas. I fear that PCGS management has never really appreciated how significant the forum has been in building and maintaining its brand, nor has it really harnassed the forum to further its business interests. >>
I thought three years ago the boards might have this fundamental threat. There are many reasons that PCGS is the premier grading company but they don't appreciate either the short nor the long term value of these boards. They got to where they are before the boards and consider them a mere adjunct. As Darktone said we are the center of the coin collecting uni- verse. Many are drawn here for other reasons but they stay because everything revolves around the forums. The value of this is incalculable but that hardly means it's worthless.
The simple fact is that people will leave if a charge is levied to stay. Of course everyone won't leave but it would be a massive blow and some will find the other sites suddenly more inter- esting. Even members would be spending more time at other sites. This place could easily lose the gravity that makes it the center. >>
Very well put!
"Please help us keep these boards professional and informative…. And fun." - DW --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
I agree with RYK. I would never have been a member of this forum if I had to pay PCGS first. Please reconsider the wisdom of only allowing paid members the right to post. That would tend to choke off new people entering the hobby, and new collectors are tantamount to this hobby's success. Just look what happened to stamps as their collector base shrank. I, also, enjoy the banter and the new and different personalities encountered over the years, but to tell me that I MUST spend money (the amount does not matter) or the privledge is gone reeks of unfairness and rubs me (and probably others, I don't know) the wrong way. In any event, thank you for all the fine people and great discussions over the years, and I hope you find it in your heart and mind to make a fair decision.
<< <i>I joined here first, learned a little about PCGS and submitting coins, and then purchased membership. I surely would not have joined without having access to the boards first. >>
Making this a PCGS member only board will kill it. As an owner of a forum that is multiples larger than this one and with a couple dozen paid advertisers, you can bank on what I'm writing here. It would not be a smart business move on PCGS's part. People who currently enjoy this forum would not have to worry about losing anything, another website's forum would rise in popularity and serve the same purpose.
I hope the above does come across as unappreciative. I really like the collective here and I appreciate PCGS in terms of a business. But that doesn't change anything I wrote above.
There is no "AT" or "NT". We only have "market acceptable" or "not market acceptable.
What would this change mean to new collectors with legitimate questions? It would mean that they would go elsewhere for their info. Someone else would benefit from this situation, and from the exposure to their site.
I, too, think that RYK's post best sums up my feelings... Although I would be willing to pay a fee for the privilege of participating in this forum, I'm struggling with the "tone" of our host's dictate. As already mentioned, "draconian" and "heavy-handed" seem apt. I don't think that limiting participation and stricter censorship of "allowable topics" necessarily ensures a higher degree of civility. For me, having the discussion stifled on too many levels would kill interest quicker than being required to pay a fee.
I respect that these are PCGS boards and PCGS should be allowed to regulate them as they see fit... but, that said, I agree with the sentiment that these forums will be greatly damaged, perhaps irreparably, by making them available to members only (and this is coming from someone who is a member!). There are many non-members who benefit from info and ideas gathered via the interactions with other collectors and dealers here.
As a dealer I feel that boards like these provide not only an invaluable educational service to the collecting public, but also are a way for professionals, specialists and collectors to network in a relaxed numismatic-oriented atmosphere. Most importantly, it generates revenue for PCGS as a byproduct. I know for a fact these boards have generated a lot of new submissions for PCGS (directly and through member dealers) and memberships (with more to come), that they otherwise would not have gotten had the boards been "members-only" from the beginning.
As I see it, the fact that the boards are open is the reason that CU is one of, if not the most widely used coin message forums- and the word-of-mouth advertising that it generates for PCGS is better than any that can be bought in my opinion. Don, I would ask you to strongly reconsider any thoughts of going members-only. Please don't throw out the baby with the bathwater here.
So, whether this forum should remain open or limited, for collectors only or include dealers, as long as everyone is respectful and equally held accountable, I think there is room here for all coin people to ask questions and share their knowledge.
I'm with Charmy on this. Constantly reviewing posts for inappropriate material is a waste of an employee's time which can be better spent doing more productive tasks.
The old Coin Universe auctions got me onto this forum. I found it to be the most interesting and valuable of the coin forums available at the time, and many years later, still think this is the case. I learned quite a bit about PCGS. In my own mind, due to exchanges with various people on these forums, coupled with looking at hundreds, possibly thousands of coins, came to the conclusion that in general, I prefer the way PCGS grades their coins, and have spend six figures, hopefully buying nice examples of the PCGS labelled product.
Would I have done so without these forums? Probably not. I rarely submit coins, so I don't need the membership privileges to do so. I feel limiting membership to this forum to only those who are willing to pay for the privilege will limit the field, the amount of knowledge exchanged, and in general, make it less interesting. Because of my beliefs, if this is done, I will be gone.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>Thank you RYK for having the guts to write what you did. I fully agree with you. Over the last year and a half of posting I have learned so much about coins, their rarities, types, grades, errors, and just about everything else about them as well. Some of our members here are EXTREMELY helpful anytime I have a question. They are pleasant and informative and always have a smile when I see them at shows.
At yesterdays Parsippany show I saw and exchanged ideas with at least 3 different forum members. The relationships build with these people all started out on these boards here. Whether from asking questions about grades or ideas- or even about if the steelers will win in the upcoming games.
There are many posters here that have other jobs- but enjoy posting here because it is a hobby that they enjoy. We on these boards are comprised of Lawyers, doctors, Bears, investers, bankers, attorneys,whales, salesmen, husbands, fathers, wives, sardines, mothers, college students, other students, and even some YN'S. (and plenty others).
Each one comes from a whole different world. Each can teach us so much about life. And what is the one thing that brings us all together? its the fact that we love coins and the hobby.
we are all one large family (so to say) (except for that guy that...). Personally, I read most of the posts on these boards even if they arent 100% coin related. why? because they are still informative and they can teach each of us things about the poster as well as life.
commenting and building these relationships with different members have led me (as well as many other Im sure) to come to trust certain dealers and members.
I enjoy almost every post on this forum. Whether its about "the man", "the steelers" or even "how many Jelly doughnuts does it take to get to belly of a bear before he is satisfied". Each poster I feel- has something to add to life and especially this hobby.
Yes the boards are more cluttered, but they ARE also more interesting.
I definetly am no big name around here. I definetly wouldnt want to not be allowed back.
I just feel that all these "illegal posts" is what made this forum so great.
Based on what others have said I see they disagree.
to bad for me I guess.
I will miss it. -joe
ps- I know I was not congruent in my post, but I hope you (the reader) understand what I meant. >>
Well said Joe, I for one understand what you mean, and
<<Thank you RYK for having the guts to write what you did.>>
No guts required. PCGS has always been a no-nonsense business and has always, in my experience, responded well to an honest, respectful approach, even if the company may not be in agreement.
<< <i><<Thank you RYK for having the guts to write what you did.>>
No guts required. PCGS has always been a no-nonsense business and has always, in my experience, responded well to an honest, respectful approach, even if the company may not be in agreement. >>
Again, I agree with the learned collector from Missouri. And BTW it wasn't a BLT.
Always took candy from strangers Didn't wanna get me no trade Never want to be like papa Working for the boss every night and day --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i><<Thank you RYK for having the guts to write what you did.>>
No guts required. PCGS has always been a no-nonsense business and has always, in my experience, responded well to an honest, respectful approach, even if the company may not be in agreement. >>
Again, I agree with the learned collector from Missouri. And BTW it wasn't a BLT. >>
<< <i>Coins are inherently boring. It is the stories about them, their histories, transactions, finds, etc., which make them interesting to me.
I get a chuckle now whenever I find a 2009 penny in change. I always think of Longacre's first find, when buying an overpriced BLT sandwich on his only lunch break all year, working for the Man, and my first find, on the floor of the bathroom in the hospital.
In these types of posts are no longer welcome here, I am no longer welcome here. >>
Well said. Speaking as one currently enjoying a numismatic sabbatical, still fully respectful of PCGS as the TPG numismatic market leader, when the PCGS forum ceases to be fun my interest in visiting the place will likely drop towards zero. This won't be any loss to the forum but, in the long term, I may be less enamored of my buy PCGS product 1st predilection. I suspect I will probably not be the only one feeling this way.
I do not believe that these boards will become member only. That would not be a smart business move and would tick off a percentage, albeit small, of its collector base.
Although I am not sure that I also agree with RYK I just wanted to say that I agree with RYK also. In fact....let me say it twice. I agree with RYK also.
<< <i>I have always thought the BST forum should have a fee for using. A small charge per post on the BST forum would eliminate a lot of the problems over there and help support the costs associated with the rest of the forum. >>
Specifically what problems are you referring to? Not saying there are none, but I have not noticed any blatant rules violations over there recently.
Comments
<< <i>If PCGS wants to eliminate anonymity, then person profile information should be added according to the sign up information. Verifiable First Name and Last Name in a field that is not editable by the user. Maybe that would work. >>
I think a lot of people do not want their secret identities known, for the same reasons they want coin periodicals mailed in plain brown wrappers and conduct all their business through P.O. boxes.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
my early American coins & currency: -- http://yankeedoodlecoins.com/
1. The forum has elevated my interest and knowledge in coins, and for that I am grateful to PCGS. However, if it becomes too sterile and dull, I will likely drift away. I am not interested in debating how many reeds there are on the edge of a Wash quarter and other such arcane numismatic points.
2. I have made numerous coin-based friendships here, and for that I am also grateful. If rule changes force my coin friends out (or cause them to post less), I will likely drift away, too.
3. This forum has, in large part, been responsible for my significant brand loyalty to PCGS. Without stumbling upon it eight years ago, I am not sure that I would have ever become a loyal customer or fierce supporter of the brand.
4. Because of contacts made here, knowledge gained here, interests stoked here, and entertainment from participating here, literally hundreds of thousands of dollars have left my pocket and flowed to the coin business, with 75+ percent going into PCGS branded product.
5. I am not going to make silly ultimatums or threats, but I will say the following: if the forum changes in such a way that I no longer enjoy posting here, I will likely post here less, come here less, and participate less in related areas. I come here primarily for the fun of it, and if it is no fun, I am gone. The same goes with the coin hobby.
6. If my name is ever required to be attached to my posts, I am certainly done here. At times, I have revealed my identity to those I have chosen in this and other coin-related venues. Heck, I was written about in a recent Coin World article. I am fairly well known and not hard to find in coin circles. However, PCGS should not facilitate a would-be thief to easily find me. That said, I doubt that this is what they have in mind by eliminating anonymous posters.
7. I am not personally against a membership or nominal fee to participate in the forum. Like others, my participation in the forum is what encouraged me to be a longstanding member. Others might feel differently and may leave as a result. This could change the chemistry here in ways that make it more or less enjoyable to continue to participate.
I have always thought the BST forum should have a fee for using. A small charge per post on the BST forum would eliminate a lot of the problems over there and help support the costs associated with the rest of the forum.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
>>>>> Actually I would love to restrict posting to this forum to PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers. No more anonymous posters. We are looking at upgrading our software to do that.
>>
It looks like I'll be gone as well. >>
Ditto...!
QN >>
Me too.
I think if a lot of us are forced to "go somewhere else" for our forum "needs", then some of the other not-so-popular open coin forums will
suddenly become "the place to be", instead of this one.
My raw 2 cents.
I've been in management for over 25 years. It's frustrating at times when your "members" act out. At times, you have to bring them back to reality, but sometimes management over reacts too. If you take away your members guarantee for cents, they'll act out. If people who consistently judge others as the forum morality police aren't kept in check, they'll act out. If you post an ultimatum that you will start enforcing the rules that have always been in place NOW when they haven't been enforced in the past or have been selectively enforced, they'll act out.
My collection is 100% PCGS/PSA. I used to purchase NGC slabs, since they were less expensive and have a, what I believe to be, more professional appearance. This forum changed my collecting patterns to PCGS exclusively. I don't collect cents, but I do feel that you can view a companies forum and determine what type of company they represent. The guarantee doesn't affect me, but the banter and diatribe on this forum does. I see more harm in the morality police than I do in the collector base that has fun amongst themselves.
<< <i>Here's my two cents worth:
1. The forum has elevated my interest and knowledge in coins, and for that I am grateful to PCGS. However, if it becomes too sterile and dull, I will likely drift away. I am not interested in debating how many reeds there are on the edge of a Wash quarter and other such arcane numismatic points.
2. I have made numerous coin-based friendships here, and for that I am also grateful. If rule changes force my coin friends out (or cause them to post less), I will likely drift away, too.
3. This forum has, in large part, been responsible for my significant brand loyalty to PCGS. Without stumbling upon it eight years ago, I am not sure that I would have ever become a loyal customer or fierce supporter of the brand.
4. Because of contacts made here, knowledge gained here, interests stoked here, and entertainment from participating here, literally hundreds of thousands of dollars have left my pocket and flowed to the coin business, with 75+ percent going into PCGS branded product.
5. I am not going to make silly ultimatums or threats, but I will say the following: if the forum changes in such a way that I no longer enjoy posting here, I will likely post here less, come here less, and participate less in related areas. I come here primarily for the fun of it, and if it is no fun, I am gone. The same goes with the coin hobby.
6. If my name is ever required to be attached to my posts, I am certainly done here. At times, I have revealed my identity to those I have chosen in this and other coin-related venues. Heck, I was written about in a recent Coin World article. I am fairly well known and not hard to find in coin circles. However, PCGS should not facilitate a would-be thief to easily find me. That said, I doubt that this is what they have in mind by eliminating anonymous posters. >>
RYK --- Thank you for your post. I was contemplating how to respond to all of this "new" info... and you summed up my thoughts and feelings very well... in other words
I especially identify and agree with point #5...
Having said that I agree with the rules posted here however automatically banning someone for a first offense, especially one not made to incite might be a little heavy handed.
On a final note Don as I no longer submit coins or only through a dealer I still encourage friends, new collectors, and young collectors to visit your site and discuss at length with them the advantages of joining. I find irony in that a couple of dealers who recommend that only dues payers belong would have not found some new clients had I not joined and recommended them. Dealers be careful what you wish for.
If PCGS makes the ridiculous mistake (MHO of course) of restricting participation in these forums to members of their paid services then all of the people that are not paying customers will simply go elsewhere.
As of right now I certainly can't argue the point that CU sports the best, most active US coins message board around and that the BST here is an excellent tool for collectors. That said, the internet is vast and ever changing and PCGS certainly is not the only game in town. If they choose to exclude people simply for preferring to spend discretionary income on coins rather than memberships they will lose those people - and there are quite a few of us.
A point to ponder, Mr. Willis: the only coins I have ever sent to PCGS were sent through a member of this forum. I have never been a paid member of PCGS, but I have paid PCGS grading fees on several occasions. If I was excluded from participation in these forums for being a nonmember, PCGS never would have gotten anything from me.
So is it better to exclude the free riders in order to achieve some semblance of control and simplicity or better to keep them and gain the direct benefit of submission fees and the indirect benefits of expert information and advice?
I hope you choose wisely.
If I enjoy my hobby more by buying whitman folders, coin flips, staples for my 2 x2's, numismatic books, subsciptions to coin world and cdn, much less purchase coins at whatever level,.............. what is the big deal about paying some nominal fee to join this premier message board with some of the greatest collectors and numismatists on the planet?
Seriously?
What am trying to understand is the attitude that says 'no, I won't join and pay' .
Its a no brainer for me.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>Don:
What about shareholders? >>
If they restricted this forum to "members" only, as a shareholder, I would be upset, and doing so would result in less profit. I suspect that PCGS's leading source for new and renewal Collectors Club memberships results from participation in this forum.
<< <i>It sounds nice and it makes us feel good, but I fully believe -- and this is just a guess -- that if we were privy to the number-crunching that PCGS executives have no doubt already done on this portion of their business, the bottom line would in fact be red. I for one am hugely grateful for what we've been lucky to have so far. >>
I would guess the opposite is true. I submit hundreds of coins to PCGS every year, and would not have done so without this forum. If fact, if they restricted membership, much of my business would likely go to NGC.
Perhaps someone who is more skilled can post a poll.
<< <i>I would need to have the coin in hand to tell, but the luster (eye appeal) may be lacking.
If the luster is there it has a 64 look, just an opinion! >>
Watch out, are you questioning the grade assigned by PCGS?
Its been fun guys. Thanks Much.
Ken
<< <i>Looks like I'm toast also.....
Heck, PCGS doesn't even grade a lot of what I collect.
<< <i>im curious what some would consider a nominal fee. And how many would pay it.
Perhaps someone who is more skilled can post a poll. >>
Nominal fee was not mentioned except by two posters above.
"PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers" was mentioned. Presumably "Members" means membership in the Collectors Club at $49/$129/$199 per year. I have no idea what "Subscribers" are as much as I have no idea who "anonymous posters" are.
No wait, I have no idea who RYK or Langacre are.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>im curious what some would consider a nominal fee. And how many would pay it.
Perhaps someone who is more skilled can post a poll. >>
Nominal fee was not mentioned except by two posters above.
"PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers" was mentioned. Presumably "Members" means membership in the Collectors Club at $49/$129/$199 per year. I have no idea what "Subscribers" are as much as I have no idea who "anonymous posters" are.
No wait, I have no idea who RYK or Langacre are.
I know who ryk is, but I never heard of Langacre.
Before making any draconian changes, it might be wise for Don to have a conference call with representative members of the forum to exchange ideas. I fear that PCGS management has never really appreciated how significant the forum has been in building and maintaining its brand, nor has it really harnassed the forum to further its business interests.
<< <i>Here's my two cents worth:
1. The forum has elevated my interest and knowledge in coins, and for that I am grateful to PCGS. However, if it becomes too sterile and dull, I will likely drift away. I am not interested in debating how many reeds there are on the edge of a Wash quarter and other such arcane numismatic points.
2. I have made numerous coin-based friendships here, and for that I am also grateful. If rule changes force my coin friends out (or cause them to post less), I will likely drift away, too.
3. This forum has, in large part, been responsible for my significant brand loyalty to PCGS. Without stumbling upon it eight years ago, I am not sure that I would have ever become a loyal customer or fierce supporter of the brand.
4. Because of contacts made here, knowledge gained here, interests stoked here, and entertainment from participating here, literally hundreds of thousands of dollars have left my pocket and flowed to the coin business, with 75+ percent going into PCGS branded product.
5. I am not going to make silly ultimatums or threats, but I will say the following: if the forum changes in such a way that I no longer enjoy posting here, I will likely post here less, come here less, and participate less in related areas. I come here primarily for the fun of it, and if it is no fun, I am gone. The same goes with the coin hobby.
6. If my name is ever required to be attached to my posts, I am certainly done here. At times, I have revealed my identity to those I have chosen in this and other coin-related venues. Heck, I was written about in a recent Coin World article. I am fairly well known and not hard to find in coin circles. However, PCGS should not facilitate a would-be thief to easily find me. That said, I doubt that this is what they have in mind by eliminating anonymous posters. >>
I fully agree with the esteemed gentleman from St. Louis. This is very well written.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>One more thing:
7. I am not personally against a membership or nominal fee to participate in the forum. Like others, my participation in the forum is what encouraged me to be a longstanding member. Others might feel differently and may leave as a result. This could change the chemistry here in ways that make it more or less enjoyable to continue to participate.
I have always thought the BST forum should have a fee for using. A small charge per post on the BST forum would eliminate a lot of the problems over there and help support the costs associated with the rest of the forum. >>
Good post.I agree.
<< <i>
<< <i>It sounds nice and it makes us feel good, but I fully believe -- and this is just a guess -- that if we were privy to the number-crunching that PCGS executives have no doubt already done on this portion of their business, the bottom line would in fact be red. I for one am hugely grateful for what we've been lucky to have so far. >>
I would guess the opposite is true. I submit hundreds of coins to PCGS every year, and would not have done so without this forum. If fact, if they restricted membership, much of my business would likely go to NGC. >>
I'd call that bluff. Sending to NGC when you have PCGS is only shooting yourself in the foot. Go ahead!
Free Trial
<< <i>"Actually I would love to restrict posting to this forum to PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers. No more anonymous posters. We are looking at upgrading our software to do that."
Wondercoin >>
Given that I think that PCGS should know that I have spent several hundred thousand dollars on PCGS coins over the last three years. That money that I spent contributed to the demand for high end U.S. coins in PCGS holders, which enhanced the market value of your product. You should bear that in mind before you turn this forum into a closed society.
PCGS paid membership makes no economic sense to me. I have no coins to submit for grading, and I can obtain much of the information services elsewhere for free or from my personal numismatic library.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>im curious what some would consider a nominal fee. And how many would pay it.
Perhaps someone who is more skilled can post a poll. >>
Nominal fee was not mentioned except by two posters above.
"PCGS Dealer, Members and Subscribers" was mentioned. Presumably "Members" means membership in the Collectors Club at $49/$129/$199 per year. I have no idea what "Subscribers" are as much as I have no idea who "anonymous posters" are.
No wait, I have no idea who RYK or Langacre are.
I know who ryk is, but I never heard of Langacre.
Before making any draconian changes, it might be wise for Don to have a conference call with representative members of the forum to exchange ideas. I fear that PCGS management has never really appreciated how significant the forum has been in building and maintaining its brand, nor has it really harnassed the forum to further its business interests. >>
Reed my sigline.............stpid keyboard!
The name is LEE!
I get a chuckle now whenever I find a 2009 penny in change. I always think of Longacre's first find, when buying an overpriced BLT sandwich on his only lunch break all year, working for the Man, and my first find, on the floor of the bathroom in the hospital.
In these types of posts are no longer welcome here, I am no longer welcome here.
I'm in the same boat as you. I like PCGS and enjoy getting my occasional coin slabbed through a third party (one of the reasons is because I live in the UK). If this board becomes members only its adios from me.
As for the boards costing a lot to run? I have a board forum on my website it costs £10 a month ($25) for the server and an occasional annual fee of approx $50 I think to ip.boards. I know this is a busier board and you might have to pay the moderators but if you take into account the money generated by the advertising and like others say ideas given I'd be hard pushed to see how it is making a loss.
<< <i>Restricting this to PCGS members only would be silly.... This site will be missing out on a LOT of kowledge out there. >>
I agree with the general point about not limiting the boards to PCGS members. People aren't going to pay to join PCGS just to use these boards when there are other free boards out there. The only effect you'll have is that the quantity and quality of posts will go down. I think these boards, as long as they are somewhat moderated, are a major plus for PCGS and create a lot of good will in the hobby. Please keep them open to everyone.
Secondly, perhaps we are also missing the bigger picture. With a paid membership PCGS would then possibly open the forums up to innovative ideas presented by the membership to enhance the forums and members experience here, and thus cause those that are lurking to pony up and become members. This may even include the addition of a new and improved Open Forum.
Collectors in general don't like change. We get comfortable with what we have (case in point: all the changes eBay has made over the years...). PCGS is ripe for serious modifications (read: possible new holder) and this would be an excellent time to roll out a new U.S. Coin Forum.
At yesterdays Parsippany show I saw and exchanged ideas with at least 3 different forum members. The relationships build with these people all started out on these boards here. Whether from asking questions about grades or ideas- or even about if the steelers will win in the upcoming games.
There are many posters here that have other jobs- but enjoy posting here because it is a hobby that they enjoy.
We on these boards are comprised of Lawyers, doctors, Bears, investers, bankers, attorneys,whales, salesmen, husbands, fathers, wives, sardines, mothers, college students, other students, and even some YN'S. (and plenty others).
Each one comes from a whole different world. Each can teach us so much about life. And what is the one thing that brings us all together? its the fact that we love coins and the hobby.
we are all one large family (so to say) (except for that guy that...). Personally, I read most of the posts on these boards even if they arent 100% coin related. why? because they are still informative and they can teach each of us things about the poster as well as life.
commenting and building these relationships with different members have led me (as well as many other Im sure) to come to trust certain dealers and members.
I enjoy almost every post on this forum. Whether its about "the man", "the steelers" or even "how many Jelly doughnuts does it take to get to belly of a bear before he is satisfied". Each poster I feel- has something to add to life and especially this hobby.
Yes the boards are more cluttered, but they ARE also more interesting.
I definetly am no big name around here. I definetly wouldnt want to not be allowed back.
I just feel that all these "illegal posts" is what made this forum so great.
Based on what others have said I see they disagree.
to bad for me I guess.
I will miss it.
-joe
ps- I know I was not congruent in my post, but I hope you (the reader) understand what I meant.
<< <i>A couple of points. First, a paid membership doesn't exclude anyone from reading and enjoying these forums. ars technica forums are extremely popular yet required a paid membership before a participant is allowed to post. I have never done so but have enjoyed the threads on this forums for years- all without contributing via a paid membership.
>>
Huh? Perhaps it went "free" after you first started lurking?
Nevermind, I see where you can upgrade to an ARS Premier account for a fee.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
I know who ryk is, but I never heard of Langacre.
Before making any draconian changes, it might be wise for Don to have a conference call with representative members of the forum to exchange ideas. I fear that PCGS management has never really appreciated how significant the forum has been in building and maintaining its brand, nor has it really harnassed the forum to further its business interests. >>
I thought three years ago the boards might have this fundamental threat. There are many
reasons that PCGS is the premier grading company but they don't appreciate either the short
nor the long term value of these boards. They got to where they are before the boards and
consider them a mere adjunct. As Darktone said we are the center of the coin collecting uni-
verse. Many are drawn here for other reasons but they stay because everything revolves
around the forums. The value of this is incalculable but that hardly means it's worthless.
The simple fact is that people will leave if a charge is levied to stay. Of course everyone won't
leave but it would be a massive blow and some will find the other sites suddenly more inter-
esting. Even members would be spending more time at other sites. This place could easily lose
the gravity that makes it the center.
<< <i>
<< <i>
I know who ryk is, but I never heard of Langacre.
Before making any draconian changes, it might be wise for Don to have a conference call with representative members of the forum to exchange ideas. I fear that PCGS management has never really appreciated how significant the forum has been in building and maintaining its brand, nor has it really harnassed the forum to further its business interests. >>
I thought three years ago the boards might have this fundamental threat. There are many
reasons that PCGS is the premier grading company but they don't appreciate either the short
nor the long term value of these boards. They got to where they are before the boards and
consider them a mere adjunct. As Darktone said we are the center of the coin collecting uni-
verse. Many are drawn here for other reasons but they stay because everything revolves
around the forums. The value of this is incalculable but that hardly means it's worthless.
The simple fact is that people will leave if a charge is levied to stay. Of course everyone won't
leave but it would be a massive blow and some will find the other sites suddenly more inter-
esting. Even members would be spending more time at other sites. This place could easily lose
the gravity that makes it the center. >>
Very well put!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BONGO HURTLES ALONG THE RAIN SODDEN HIGHWAY OF LIFE ON UNDERINFLATED BALD RETREAD TIRES
Proud recipient of two "You Suck" awards
<< <i>I joined here first, learned a little about PCGS and submitting coins, and then purchased membership. I surely would not have joined without having access to the boards first. >>
Yep, same here.
I hope the above does come across as unappreciative. I really like the collective here and I appreciate PCGS in terms of a business. But that doesn't change anything I wrote above.
I don't think that limiting participation and stricter censorship of "allowable topics" necessarily ensures a higher degree of civility. For me, having the discussion stifled on too many levels would kill interest quicker than being required to pay a fee.
As a dealer I feel that boards like these provide not only an invaluable educational service to the collecting public, but also are a way for professionals, specialists and collectors to network in a relaxed numismatic-oriented atmosphere. Most importantly, it generates revenue for PCGS as a byproduct. I know for a fact these boards have generated a lot of new submissions for PCGS (directly and through member dealers) and memberships (with more to come), that they otherwise would not have gotten had the boards been "members-only" from the beginning.
As I see it, the fact that the boards are open is the reason that CU is one of, if not the most widely used coin message forums- and the word-of-mouth advertising that it generates for PCGS is better than any that can be bought in my opinion. Don, I would ask you to strongly reconsider any thoughts of going members-only. Please don't throw out the baby with the bathwater here.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I'm with Charmy on this. Constantly reviewing posts for inappropriate material is a waste of an employee's time which can be better spent doing more productive tasks.
The old Coin Universe auctions got me onto this forum. I found it to be the most interesting and valuable of the coin forums available at the time, and many years later, still think this is the case. I learned quite a bit about PCGS. In my own mind, due to exchanges with various people on these forums, coupled with looking at hundreds, possibly thousands of coins, came to the conclusion that in general, I prefer the way PCGS grades their coins, and have spend six figures, hopefully buying nice examples of the PCGS labelled product.
Would I have done so without these forums? Probably not. I rarely submit coins, so I don't need the membership privileges to do so. I feel limiting membership to this forum to only those who are willing to pay for the privilege will limit the field, the amount of knowledge exchanged, and in general, make it less interesting. Because of my beliefs, if this is done, I will be gone.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
<< <i>Thank you RYK for having the guts to write what you did. I fully agree with you. Over the last year and a half of posting I have learned so much about coins, their rarities, types, grades, errors, and just about everything else about them as well. Some of our members here are EXTREMELY helpful anytime I have a question. They are pleasant and informative and always have a smile when I see them at shows.
At yesterdays Parsippany show I saw and exchanged ideas with at least 3 different forum members. The relationships build with these people all started out on these boards here. Whether from asking questions about grades or ideas- or even about if the steelers will win in the upcoming games.
There are many posters here that have other jobs- but enjoy posting here because it is a hobby that they enjoy.
We on these boards are comprised of Lawyers, doctors, Bears, investers, bankers, attorneys,whales, salesmen, husbands, fathers, wives, sardines, mothers, college students, other students, and even some YN'S. (and plenty others).
Each one comes from a whole different world. Each can teach us so much about life. And what is the one thing that brings us all together? its the fact that we love coins and the hobby.
we are all one large family (so to say) (except for that guy that...). Personally, I read most of the posts on these boards even if they arent 100% coin related. why? because they are still informative and they can teach each of us things about the poster as well as life.
commenting and building these relationships with different members have led me (as well as many other Im sure) to come to trust certain dealers and members.
I enjoy almost every post on this forum. Whether its about "the man", "the steelers" or even "how many Jelly doughnuts does it take to get to belly of a bear before he is satisfied". Each poster I feel- has something to add to life and especially this hobby.
Yes the boards are more cluttered, but they ARE also more interesting.
I definetly am no big name around here. I definetly wouldnt want to not be allowed back.
I just feel that all these "illegal posts" is what made this forum so great.
Based on what others have said I see they disagree.
to bad for me I guess.
I will miss it.
-joe
ps- I know I was not congruent in my post, but I hope you (the reader) understand what I meant. >>
Well said Joe, I for one understand what you mean, and
Steve
No guts required.
<< <i><<Thank you RYK for having the guts to write what you did.>>
No guts required.
Again, I agree with the learned collector from Missouri. And BTW it wasn't a BLT.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>
<< <i><<Thank you RYK for having the guts to write what you did.>>
No guts required.
Again, I agree with the learned collector from Missouri. And BTW it wasn't a BLT. >>
Turkey avocado wrap?
<< <i>Coins are inherently boring. It is the stories about them, their histories, transactions, finds, etc., which make them interesting to me.
I get a chuckle now whenever I find a 2009 penny in change. I always think of Longacre's first find, when buying an overpriced BLT sandwich on his only lunch break all year, working for the Man, and my first find, on the floor of the bathroom in the hospital.
In these types of posts are no longer welcome here, I am no longer welcome here. >>
Well said. Speaking as one currently enjoying a numismatic sabbatical, still fully respectful of PCGS as the TPG numismatic market leader, when the PCGS forum ceases to be fun my interest in visiting the place will likely drop towards zero. This won't be any loss to the forum but, in the long term, I may be less enamored of my buy PCGS product 1st predilection. I suspect I will probably not be the only one feeling this way.
That would not be a smart business move and would tick off a
percentage, albeit small, of its collector base.
Although I am not sure that I also agree with RYK
I just wanted to say that I agree with RYK also.
In fact....let me say it twice.
I agree with RYK also.
Gosh now I feel like one of the guys......
<< <i>I have always thought the BST forum should have a fee for using. A small charge per post on the BST forum would eliminate a lot of the problems over there and help support the costs associated with the rest of the forum. >>
Specifically what problems are you referring to? Not saying there are none, but I have not noticed any blatant rules violations over there recently.