<< <i>FROM DVN: Amazing the DDO has been used on three different obverses?
Of all the many FY DDR listings, this one is one of my favorites. Not just because of the doubling, but more in the production history associated with it.
This is just one of the stages for this variety. To break it down:
FY CDDO-002 is paired with FY CDDR-006 striking coinage. Then ...
FY CDDO-002 paired with CDDR-006 is retired and now replaced with CDDR-009 (Skeleton Finger) DDR and the production continues ...
And just recently I received a coin from a submitter that confirmed another new stage being ...
FY CDDO-002 with CDDR-009 (Skeleton Finger) was pulled and replaced with a non-DDR reverse!
A complete set of these stages would make a neat collection.
You guys are trying to confuse me. I really don't need your help, I do a great job of it all by myself. __________________ >>
OK gang, now that the dust is settling on the FY ddrs, I'd like to ask the question again that has been raised earlier but warrants re-visiting with 70+ varieties out there.
I've lost track of the varieties after -015, especially the ho-hum minors, but there are a few out there worthy.
I'll throw out some variety criteria, just to get this started, feel free to add more:
1 - Prominence, visibility 2 - Coolness Factor (full-on extra appendage should rank high) 3 - Perceived scarceness / availability
[If someone else knows a way to better tabulate this (polls, etc) feel free to adapt, is a new thread in order?]
In your opinions, WHAT ARE THE TOP 10 VARIETIES by priority?
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser, Bullsitter, robeck, Nickpatton, jwitten, and many OTHERS
I'm with you Steve, although I'd switch the 6 and 2 in rank. Can someone post pics of the 43 & 51?
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser, Bullsitter, robeck, Nickpatton, jwitten, and many OTHERS
cddr-014(b) / wddr-013(b) (w/large reverse die crack) die crack photo by akbeez
cddr-021 / wddr-014
cddr-036 / wddr-043
cddr-049 / wddr-050
cddr-051 / wddr-052
cddr-052 / wddr-051
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser, Bullsitter, robeck, Nickpatton, jwitten, and many OTHERS
<< <i>OK - for your viewing pleasure and memory recollection, here's a few shots of some contenders with Crawford/Wexler crosses. >>
Very nice synopsis of the significant injuries....
Some of the higher numbers seem like variants of the lower numbers. Too bad they weren't labeled as such...(example: WDDR-001b instead of 0050 etc)...easier to remember
I did call the coin vault today and inquired about selling some of my stock to them to get these coins going and was informed that they have a lot of them on hand.
Read what you want to in this but I find it very interesting to say the least.
We've all searched these rolls. I can only imagine how much time it would take to locate 1000, of any.......never mind 1000 of each, no matter how many people are searching
One thing not to forget is the fact that coin vault has many people that supply them with coins and they Robert Chambers has close ties with NGC. He grades 1000's of coins each year and is probably the largest customer NGC has. Does that bear any weight? I don't know! Only time will tell but as I have said in the past, as each one of these pennies comes out and no more errors are found, these things look better and better.
A little bit further down the road we will know better what is what.
Searched my first box tonight. I have held these untouched since arrival from the mint. Here are the results:
LP2 04/24/09 12:28
wddr-1 (1) wddr-2 (16) wddr-3 (5)
ddo havent attributed specifically which ones they are - (3) That is exactly 50% on this box that have a doubling of one sort or another.
By the way, One of the ddr-2 looks strange. The extra book edge extends all the way into the cover, and the thunb isn't quite identical to the ddr-2 that is usually pictured. If I can a decent photo tomorrow, I will post back here.
<< <i>Searched my first box tonight. I have held these untouched since arrival from the mint. Here are the results:
LP2 04/24/09 12:28
wddr-1 (1) wddr-2 (16) wddr-3 (5)
ddo havent attributed specifically which ones they are - (3) That is exactly 50% on this box that have a doubling of one sort or another.
By the way, One of the ddr-2 looks strange. The extra book edge extends all the way into the cover, and the thunb isn't quite identical to the ddr-2 that is usually pictured. If I can a decent photo tomorrow, I will post back here. >>
With the sheer number of DDR coins found, you can expect very little from these in the future. Most of the folks that wanted them, now have them.
PCGS is not attributing them and only those unique individuals that just have to have a compete set of one of each will ever show any interest IMO. For all practical purposes, the LP2 DDR coins are withering away and any profits that were to be, have already been taken.
Do a search on the Minnesota Extra Tree State Quarters or even the 2004 Ocean in View Nickels and you'll get the picture. Only high grade TPG specimens will get any premiums and those premiums will more than likely not be associated with the specific DDR.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>With the sheer number of DDR coins found, you can expect very little from these in the future. Most of the folks that wanted them, now have them.
PCGS is not attributing them and only those unique individuals that just have to have a compete set of one of each will ever show any interest IMO. For all practical purposes, the LP2 DDR coins are withering away and any profits that were to be, have already been taken.
Do a search on the Minnesota Extra Tree State Quarters or even the 2004 Ocean in View Nickels and you'll get the picture. Only high grade TPG specimens will get any premiums and those premiums will more than likely not be associated with the specific DDR. >>
You always seem to be poo pooing these. Why do you respond to the thread, if it's a waste of your time to search/sell these, and how many do you have?
IMO, It's been a thrill searching for these and whatever they're worth down the road will be worth the time I spent searching for them.
The Lincoln penny is a very popular collectible. Let Whitman or whoever, come out with a holder/booklet that says "Lincoln 100 years 100 Errors" and watch the action start, IMO.
I really enjoyed this flash in the Numismatic pan so to speak. Searching for them was both cheap and exciting if you were able to order the boxes directly from the Mint. I feel sorry for those who held out and didn't sell while the irons were hot. ANACS was the real winner here with multiple 10's of thousands in grading fees. I appauld those who have a collection of every one identified. You are a true variety/error nut!! How many are we up to? I lost track and interest after the first 50 or so. BTW my favorite is still the "lightning" strike reverse die crack .....number DDR13 stage 2 I believe it is.
As I browse through the 09 Redbook Lincoln cents, it is apparent that collectors love the small minting nuances of 'ol Abe -- I see seven "wide" or "close" AM's listed since 1992, along with many other DDRs and small/large dates, etc. back into the 60's (there are many others not listed as well). Only the 1984 DDR has a doubled appendage -- Abe's ear was doubled that year, pretty cool.
The AM & small/large date varieties are fun to look for too -- but you have to know what you are looking for since it is simply a spacial difference -- not an apparent aberration.
Now, we have 'ol Abe with SIX fingers, clearly doubled thumbs (and "lighting strikes" - hadn't heard that term for wddr-013b). And enough of them that they can be found in circulation -- or a particular dated sealed white box (that are getting hard to find). What do you suppose this scenario will look like in a few years?
Just because one of the major grading companies opted not to attribute these does not make them a lessor collectible. I'll admit that with 80+ varieties now, that is overwhelming, BUT about 3-5 of these varieties are OBVIOUS ABERRATIONS to the norm, and will be sought after collectibles. Perhaps not $100 coins, but even if they are $5-$20 coins, they will still have a strong place in our numismatic heritage since the average collector can participate.
Happy Hunting!
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser, Bullsitter, robeck, Nickpatton, jwitten, and many OTHERS
No doubt looking for and finding these can be a fun and rewarding experience but I would not hold my breath waiting for the prices to increase since most of the numismatic community has shown a complacent attitude towards these coins. Despite the efforts and enthusiasm of others.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Just because one of the major grading companies opted not to attribute these does not make them a lessor collectible. I'll admit that with 80+ varieties now, that is overwhelming, BUT about 3-5 of these varieties are OBVIOUS ABERRATIONS to the norm, and will be sought after collectibles. Perhaps not $100 coins, but even if they are $5-$20 coins, they will still have a strong place in our numismatic heritage since the average collector can participate.
>>
I agree, these coins don't have to be worth hundreds or thousands of dollars in order to be collectible. Personally, I don't find the quantity of varieties overwhelming. There are several with significant aberrations, as you said. Those are the ones that people will want to put in their collections. The other 70 or so, will be left to the series specialist collector.
I would have to think that a short production period, 3 months, and a relatively small quantity for the specific design, makes them well worth while.
Of course, not every American collects coins, but there were only enough Formative pennies, P mint, produced for every citizen to own 1.24 pennies.
I recently purchased a $25 bank box of FY P cents. The box and the rolls were obviously never opened, and wrapped in white "String" wrappers; the box was not dated.
I only opened 20 rolls, so far. The rolls contained the following in various quantities:
I'm wondering how in the heck did these early DDRs, which to my knowledge were only known in LP2 mint sets, get into bank boxes 14 months after release.
Did the mint put these to the side for pkg LP2 sets, and just got around to tidying up? I don't think the Mint distributes coins to banks, so how did they get there?
I'm happy with my find. Just curious to hear if anyone else finds this odd.
There do not seem to be many WDDR 001's and 2's being found. I have not found any more I know. I think I will sell off the rest of my good boxes as I have enough errors for myself anyway.
<< <i>There do not seem to be many WDDR 001's and 2's being found. I have not found any more I know. I think I will sell off the rest of my good boxes as I have enough errors for myself anyway. >>
I agree with you. I have been watching the eBay LP2 roll sets being sold the last couple of months and very very few of the prime dates/times being sold. Sure there have been many boxes, but there really is a specific window in the dates/times to find the prime errors. I have said before, 300,000 boxes sold by the Mint, over at least 30 different production dates. So there were not that many put together on a specific date. The average would be 10,000 boxes a day assuming of course, equal production over that 30 day period. Either collectors are holding back on selling the "hot" boxes or they are truly drying up. I am not really sure but I believe the Double Thumb, Sixth Finger, and Skeleton Finger varieties have strong potential and I follow these closely.
I also follow them closely and agree with you. I am now retired and spend quite a bit more time online. Time will tell what happens . All we can do is to be prepared for it to happen.
Although I have no inside knowledge, I remain highly optimistic in a select few of these 2009 DDO/DDRs being included in the Red Book Pro and/or the CPG in only a matter of time. My expectations too are reasonable, not expecting fireworks, but seeing their place in these books sounds deserving and will help collector's sort out and understand these varieties. There are some fairly strong spread DDOs on these coins in the Liberty and 2009 on the obverse too that I am finding interesting.
Comments
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
<< <i>Die Variety News, Billy >>
Do you have a Link?
Die Variety News
<< <i>FROM DVN: Amazing the DDO has been used on three different obverses?
Of all the many FY DDR listings, this one is one of my favorites. Not just because of the doubling, but more in the production history associated with it.
This is just one of the stages for this variety. To break it down:
FY CDDO-002 is paired with FY CDDR-006 striking coinage. Then ...
FY CDDO-002 paired with CDDR-006 is retired and now replaced with CDDR-009 (Skeleton Finger) DDR and the production continues ...
And just recently I received a coin from a submitter that confirmed another new stage being ...
FY CDDO-002 with CDDR-009 (Skeleton Finger) was pulled and replaced with a non-DDR reverse!
A complete set of these stages would make a neat collection.
You guys are trying to confuse me. I really don't need your help, I do a great job of it all by myself.
__________________ >>
I've lost track of the varieties after -015, especially the ho-hum minors, but there are a few out there worthy.
I'll throw out some variety criteria, just to get this started, feel free to add more:
1 - Prominence, visibility
2 - Coolness Factor (full-on extra appendage should rank high)
3 - Perceived scarceness / availability
[If someone else knows a way to better tabulate this (polls, etc) feel free to adapt, is a new thread in order?]
In your opinions, WHAT ARE THE TOP 10 VARIETIES by priority?
I think Wddr 1 2 6 43 51 should be in the top ten.
<< <i>Excellent Request.
I think Wddr 1 2 6 43 51 should be in the top ten. >>
Agree and think some of the ones with major die cracks should be included, 13b and 37 w/die crack
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
I think the WDDR 001,2,6,13B should be included. I have not seen the 43 or 51 so I don't know about those.
<< <i>I'm with you Steve, although I'd switch the 6 and 2 in rank. Can someone post pics of the 43 & 51? >>
I agree with that. I was just listing the ones I thought should be in there.
photos courtesy of Billy Crawford's website, http://www.dvnmagazine.com/fyandecvarieties.html
cddr-001 / wddr-002 (Doubled Thumb)
cddr-002 / wddr-001 (Sixth Finger)
cddr-003 / wddr-003
cddr-004 / wddr-004
cddr-005 / wddr-011
cddr-009 / wddr-006 (Skeleton Finger)
cddr-014(b) / wddr-013(b) (w/large reverse die crack)
die crack photo by akbeez
cddr-021 / wddr-014
cddr-036 / wddr-043
cddr-049 / wddr-050
cddr-051 / wddr-052
cddr-052 / wddr-051
<< <i>OK - for your viewing pleasure and memory recollection, here's a few shots of some contenders with Crawford/Wexler crosses. >>
Very nice synopsis of the significant injuries....
Some of the higher numbers seem like variants of the lower numbers. Too bad they weren't labeled as such...(example: WDDR-001b instead of 0050 etc)...easier to remember
the 13b die crack next (I found only in one date also) the 001, 2, 3, following with the 50's as shown in the response above.
The Beatles
That's as good a lineup as I can come up with right now. The LP2 is still the winner on these coins. One more to go!
FYI: Hate to tell you but This one has been found in circulation.
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
mistakenly used a mint issued penny from their family's collection? (I hope) That is bad news...paying premium prices for mint boxes??????
Why????????? I need an aspirin........
The Beatles
<< <i>re-he-he-he-illllly........(Jim Carrey voice inserted here) How many? Were they found in bank rolls or just common change where someone
mistakenly used a mint issued penny from their family's collection? (I hope) That is bad news...paying premium prices for mint boxes??????
Why????????? I need an aspirin........
Actually no premium on the boxes. Two, 4-23 boxes with a 10:30 AM time went for under $10 each, a few days ago.
wanted for shipping? Sometimes that's where people make up the difference. I've sold a couple of boxes and paid between $6-$7.50 per
for shipping....not a huge profit in selling them for $10. I've decided to just buy for now and see what the future holds for these. I find
it hard to believe that there are that many of the 006/009's being found in circulation. A box of 4/23 yields on average eight of them.
If you get lucky and find a few with the die crack obverse (type b, not c) as I have, the value is increased. I'm still looking for a type c
die crack obverse, so I will always be interested in getting "cheap" mint boxes with a 4/23 date. I search Ebay regularly (when my
computer cooperates) but I haven't seen many mint boxes of any date selling that cheap....BUT...the search goes on!
The Beatles
I thought I was the only one still buying!
The Beatles
<< <i>I thought I was the only one still buying! >>
I'm still a buyer of a few different dates.
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
I did call the coin vault today and inquired about selling some of my stock to them to get these coins going and was informed that they have a lot of them on hand.
Read what you want to in this but I find it very interesting to say the least.
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
One thing not to forget is the fact that coin vault has many people that supply them with coins and they Robert Chambers has close ties with NGC. He grades 1000's of coins each year and is probably the largest customer NGC has. Does that bear any weight? I don't know! Only time will tell but as I have said in the past, as each one of these pennies comes out and no more errors are found, these things look better and better.
A little bit further down the road we will know better what is what.
B that is a slight or fine crack from the rim at about 7 o'clock up into Lincoln's jacket. The second is the type C which is a large die crack in
the same area. There may be more, but that's what I've read. Wexler has a pic of a die crack that starts at around 11 o'clock on the rim
down into Lincoln's head, but not sure if that is associated with the wddr-006 or not.
Still looking for more? or have you had enough? It seems that most people have moved on since there hasn't been anyone on this
thread for quite awhile.
The Beatles
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
LP2 04/24/09 12:28
wddr-1 (1)
wddr-2 (16)
wddr-3 (5)
ddo havent attributed specifically which ones they are - (3)
That is exactly 50% on this box that have a doubling of one sort or another.
By the way, One of the ddr-2 looks strange. The extra book edge extends all the way into the cover, and the thunb isn't quite identical to the ddr-2 that is usually pictured. If I can a decent photo tomorrow, I will post back here.
<< <i>Searched my first box tonight. I have held these untouched since arrival from the mint. Here are the results:
LP2 04/24/09 12:28
wddr-1 (1)
wddr-2 (16)
wddr-3 (5)
ddo havent attributed specifically which ones they are - (3)
That is exactly 50% on this box that have a doubling of one sort or another.
By the way, One of the ddr-2 looks strange. The extra book edge extends all the way into the cover, and the thunb isn't quite identical to the ddr-2 that is usually pictured. If I can a decent photo tomorrow, I will post back here. >>
Most likely the DDO with be #1
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
This was the only excitement from the mint this year. All the rest was just so much garbage.
I'd rather hold these for awhile. Now that the Lp3's and 4's are out without any significant errors being reported, I'm hoping the focus
goes back to these error coins and improves the interest (read; value) of them. Happy New Year all and a prosperous one at that!
The Beatles
PCGS is not attributing them and only those unique individuals that just have to have a compete set of one of each will ever show any interest IMO. For all practical purposes, the LP2 DDR coins are withering away and any profits that were to be, have already been taken.
Do a search on the Minnesota Extra Tree State Quarters or even the 2004 Ocean in View Nickels and you'll get the picture. Only high grade TPG specimens will get any premiums and those premiums will more than likely not be associated with the specific DDR.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>With the sheer number of DDR coins found, you can expect very little from these in the future. Most of the folks that wanted them, now have them.
PCGS is not attributing them and only those unique individuals that just have to have a compete set of one of each will ever show any interest IMO. For all practical purposes, the LP2 DDR coins are withering away and any profits that were to be, have already been taken.
Do a search on the Minnesota Extra Tree State Quarters or even the 2004 Ocean in View Nickels and you'll get the picture. Only high grade TPG specimens will get any premiums and those premiums will more than likely not be associated with the specific DDR. >>
You always seem to be poo pooing these. Why do you respond to the thread, if it's a waste of your time to search/sell these, and how many do you have?
IMO, It's been a thrill searching for these and whatever they're worth down the road will be worth the time I spent searching for them.
The Lincoln penny is a very popular collectible. Let Whitman or whoever, come out with a holder/booklet that says "Lincoln 100 years 100 Errors" and watch the action start, IMO.
The AM & small/large date varieties are fun to look for too -- but you have to know what you are looking for since it is simply a spacial difference -- not an apparent aberration.
Now, we have 'ol Abe with SIX fingers, clearly doubled thumbs (and "lighting strikes" - hadn't heard that term for wddr-013b). And enough of them that they can be found in circulation -- or a particular dated sealed white box (that are getting hard to find). What do you suppose this scenario will look like in a few years?
Just because one of the major grading companies opted not to attribute these does not make them a lessor collectible. I'll admit that with 80+ varieties now, that is overwhelming, BUT about 3-5 of these varieties are OBVIOUS ABERRATIONS to the norm, and will be sought after collectibles. Perhaps not $100 coins, but even if they are $5-$20 coins, they will still have a strong place in our numismatic heritage since the average collector can participate.
Happy Hunting!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
Just because one of the major grading companies opted not to attribute these does not make them a lessor collectible. I'll admit that with 80+ varieties now, that is overwhelming, BUT about 3-5 of these varieties are OBVIOUS ABERRATIONS to the norm, and will be sought after collectibles. Perhaps not $100 coins, but even if they are $5-$20 coins, they will still have a strong place in our numismatic heritage since the average collector can participate.
>>
I agree, these coins don't have to be worth hundreds or thousands of dollars in order to be collectible. Personally, I don't find the quantity of varieties overwhelming. There are several with significant aberrations, as you said. Those are the ones that people will want to put in their collections. The other 70 or so, will be left to the series specialist collector.
I would have to think that a short production period, 3 months, and a relatively small quantity for the specific design, makes them well worth while.
Of course, not every American collects coins, but there were only enough Formative pennies, P mint, produced for every citizen to own 1.24 pennies.
Regards Mike
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
I recently purchased a $25 bank box of FY P cents. The box and the rolls were obviously never opened, and wrapped in white "String" wrappers; the box was not dated.
I only opened 20 rolls, so far. The rolls contained the following in various quantities:
WDDO-001
WDDR-001
WDDR-002
WDDR-003
WDDR-004
WDDR-005
WDDR-012
WDDR-013
WDDR-018
WDDR-019
I'm wondering how in the heck did these early DDRs, which to my knowledge were only known in LP2 mint sets, get into bank boxes 14 months after release.
Did the mint put these to the side for pkg LP2 sets, and just got around to tidying up? I don't think the Mint distributes coins to banks, so how did they get there?
I'm happy with my find. Just curious to hear if anyone else finds this odd.
<< <i>Anyone know what box date the WDDR-007 was in? >>
The ones I found were in box 9774 dated 05-05-09 time 10:52
I took a chance and opened a 05/04 box; 9774 14:46
WDDR-007 - 12
WDDR-019 - 8
There do not seem to be many WDDR 001's and 2's being found. I have not found any more I know. I think I will sell off the rest of my good boxes as I have enough errors for myself anyway.
<< <i>There do not seem to be many WDDR 001's and 2's being found. I have not found any more I know. I think I will sell off the rest of my good boxes as I have enough errors for myself anyway. >>
I agree with you. I have been watching the eBay LP2 roll sets being sold the last couple of months and very very few of the prime dates/times being sold. Sure there have been many boxes, but there really is a specific window in the dates/times to find the prime errors. I have said before, 300,000 boxes sold by the Mint, over at least 30 different production dates. So there were not that many put together on a specific date. The average would be 10,000 boxes a day assuming of course, equal production over that 30 day period. Either collectors are holding back on selling the "hot" boxes or they are truly drying up. I am not really sure but I believe the Double Thumb, Sixth Finger, and Skeleton Finger varieties have strong potential and I follow these closely.
I also follow them closely and agree with you. I am now retired and spend quite a bit more time online. Time will tell what happens . All we can do is to be prepared for it to happen.