<< <i>wow this got interesting... Personally I don't trust ebay - after talking with Steve he said there is no way to tell from pictures if something has been resealed in most cases - so all the "good" pictures in the world don't mean a thing. I'd be willing to bet 3 very oc Jordans will be pulled from this box. >>
At a price of just $40 per Jordan, and the stars selling for under 5 bucks apiece, is it really worth the hassle to search this box? And before you spew off about how the Jordan used to be a $150 card, remember that centering wasnt even close to as important as it has become in the past 5-7 years! Back in 1991, nobody cared about 55/45 centering vs 70/30 centering. >>
If I wanted to run a scam and make some money back after I cracked openned 3-4 boxes and "cherry picked" the good cards and then created a box to sell and dump the oc cards and make money back than yes I could see someone doing this. People scam for a lot less!
<< <i>Amazing when the coolaid drinkers have no idea what they are talking about! >>
Yeah, you should really lay off that stuff...
What's the point of your post? If you think prices are high, don't buy from BBCE. It's pretty simple and any adult can figure that out. >>
Exactly. I could spend all day surfing the internet finding retail prices 20...30...50...100% higher than on eBay. So what? If you don't like it, don't buy it.
<< <i>Amazing when the coolaid drinkers have no idea what they are talking about! >>
Yeah, you should really lay off that stuff...
What's the point of your post? If you think prices are high, don't buy from BBCE. It's pretty simple and any adult can figure that out. >>
Exactly. I could spend all day surfing the internet finding retail prices 20...30...50...100% higher than on eBay. So what? If you don't like it, don't buy it. >>
The "point" is that BBCE is regarded not as some online retail store, but rather the INDUSTRY LEADER in the products we are discussing. My question is, will BBCE acknowledge the current market conditions, and follow recent auction sales, and adjust their prices accordingly to reflect whats going on realistically?
<< <i> Oh, so you DONT want to compare ALL the recent sold items? Oh ok....didnt think so. >>
What do I need to do that for? If you don't want to pay BBCE prices that doesn't effect me at all!
The seller has sold 1981 football boxes for way below and way above BBCE prices, he's sold 1980 topps boxes for way below and equal to BBCE prices. He's sold 1982 topps vending boxes for more than I bought them from BBCE...
Looks to me like this guy loses big on some ebay sales, has gained big on a few, and is close to even on others... sounds like a typical auction market to me.
Declaring that the market is different based on very little information is statistically insignificant. Statisitically speaking there is little proof the market has changed.
<< <i> The "point" is that BBCE is regarded not as some online retail store, but rather the INDUSTRY LEADER in the products we are discussing. My question is, will BBCE acknowledge the current market conditions, and follow recent auction sales, and adjust their prices accordingly to reflect whats going on realistically? >>
They're an industry leader because they're trusted, courteous, have a good inventory, and you know what you're getting when you buy from them. And when something goes wrong, they make it right. That's worth a markup to many.
They're a business. Trying to make a profit is what they do. Check out 707. They're an "industry leader" in Mickey Mantle cards, and their prices are usually well above eBay. But a hell of a lot of people deal with them because they don't want the hassle/risk involved with eBay.
To me they are the Industry Leader in authentic unopened wax.
They DO adjust their prices to a realistic setting. Prices change all the time, and they seem to be doing just fine with the sales they are getting, so that's about as realistic as it can get.
<< <i>Edited to add: Amazing when the coolaid drinkers have no idea what they are talking about! >>
Nice, in name calling most people on here when they disagree with you. Good "discussion" technique.
You are complaining about BBCE's pricing, it is not a discussion you are whining they are too high.
They can set the pricing where they want and if you choose not to buy you don't.
It sounds like you have an ax to grind about BBCE and you are using this as strawman attack on their credibility.
Also your "they look good to me" defense of those packs as being legit is worthless, odds are, just like with autos, they have been messed with at some time. You don't think dealers in the mid 90s were resealing this crap all the time? Those boxes and those dealers are still around moving this garbage.
Currently completing the following registry sets: Cardinal HOF's, 1961 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1972 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1980 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, Bill Mazeroski Master & Basic Sets, Roberto Clemente Master & Basic Sets, Willie Stargell Master & Basic Sets and Terry Bradshaw Basic Set
<< <i>Are you being serious? Would you like to go over each box sold by this guy over the last 2 weeks on ebay and compare them to BBCE's prices? I'll go first:
Edited to add: Amazing when the coolaid drinkers have no idea what they are talking about! >>
have a swig.
after some thought, i've come up with an answer to this one, too.....another fine example and here's why:
this 1980-81 Topps Basketball box is currently dependent on the availability of ONE CARD! need i mention it? the price has been diving for quite awhile now.....when the Registry demanded it, people busted boxes, graded cards and sold them off at premium prices, but now many folks have what they want and you could holler into a canyon looking for a buyer......same for 87-88 Fleer, and whatever else this overloaded market has to offer.
does this mean Steve should lower his prices? what if he invested a certain amount of money into his inventory and doesn't want to take the hit? or, what if he simply believes that his buyers will continue to trust him and pay those prices, because that seems to be what they are doing, in spite of or, BECAUSE OF the other facts available to them.
a more diverse set of examples and comparisons is needed.
I just e-mailed Steve @ BBCE and asked if he'd like to respond about his price points on this box... here is his response:
"We have them listed for $1150.00, which means after everyone(and I mean everyone) asks for and gets a discount, we get around $1000 to $1035.00. Our buy price is $750.00, which means everyone(and I mean everyone) hits us up on our price to pay $800-$825. So we making a fair profit on a box that is tough to come across everyday. Also, we have sold dozens of boxes over the last 6 months. Where do you think 4-Sharp-Corners keeps coming up with low pop PSA 10's? From an old Fleer printing press they found in the dumpster? If anyone wants to ship us real 100% legit boxes at $850.00, we will buy them. If anyone wants to buy any of ours at $1000, we will do so. If I can't make $150.00 on a box that I put $850.00 into, then I am going to McDonalds to apply for a job."
BBCE is the only place I buy my wax from. They are pretty competitive with their pricing too. I don’t mind paying an extra couple of $ knowing that I am going to get an unhampered with box. How can you be certain that the box of 87 is unopened from just looking at some photos on eBay? I would say at best you are flipping a coin. I am just not willing to take those odd when spending $660.
<< <i>I just e-mailed Steve @ BBCE and asked if he'd like to respond about his price points on this box... here is his response:
"We have them listed for $1150.00, which means after everyone(and I mean everyone) asks for and gets a discount, we get around $1000 to $1035.00. Our buy price is $750.00, which means everyone(and I mean everyone) hits us up on our price to pay $800-$825. So we making a fair profit on a box that is tough to come across everyday. Also, we have sold dozens of boxes over the last 6 months. Where do you think 4-Sharp-Corners keeps coming up with low pop PSA 10's? From an old Fleer printing press they found in the dumpster? If anyone wants to ship us real 100% legit boxes at $850.00, we will buy them. If anyone wants to buy any of ours at $1000, we will do so. If I can't make $150.00 on a box that I put $850.00 into, then I am going to McDonalds to apply for a job." >>
Don't let some guy with no creditability and list of complaints about the world get to you, Steve. All of your customers know you are on the up and up.
Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards. Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>I just e-mailed Steve @ BBCE and asked if he'd like to respond about his price points on this box... here is his response:
"We have them listed for $1150.00, which means after everyone(and I mean everyone) asks for and gets a discount, we get around $1000 to $1035.00. Our buy price is $750.00, which means everyone(and I mean everyone) hits us up on our price to pay $800-$825. So we making a fair profit on a box that is tough to come across everyday. Also, we have sold dozens of boxes over the last 6 months. Where do you think 4-Sharp-Corners keeps coming up with low pop PSA 10's? From an old Fleer printing press they found in the dumpster? If anyone wants to ship us real 100% legit boxes at $850.00, we will buy them. If anyone wants to buy any of ours at $1000, we will do so. If I can't make $150.00 on a box that I put $850.00 into, then I am going to McDonalds to apply for a job." >>
Don't let some guy with no creditability and list of complaints about the world get to you, Steve. All of your customers know you are on the up and up. >>
I think he was just trying to be funny... It was a classic response!
<< <i>Amazing when the coolaid drinkers have no idea what they are talking about! >>
Yeah, you should really lay off that stuff...
What's the point of your post? If you think prices are high, don't buy from BBCE. It's pretty simple and any adult can figure that out. >>
Exactly. I could spend all day surfing the internet finding retail prices 20...30...50...100% higher than on eBay. So what? If you don't like it, don't buy it. >>
The "point" is that BBCE is regarded not as some online retail store, but rather the INDUSTRY LEADER in the products we are discussing. My question is, will BBCE acknowledge the current market conditions, and follow recent auction sales, and adjust their prices accordingly to reflect whats going on realistically? >>
The fact is, Steve is an industry leader in his specialty. Why don't you try competing with Steve if you think you have a better formula. If what you are implying is true, then obviously there is plenty of market room for you. However, I would bet you never ran a business and have no clue what you are talking about.
Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards. Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
Two IMPORTANT points concerning buying raw wax on ebay:
1. Many of the most notorious pack resealers on ebay have 100% feedback ratings (i.e. pastoney, import-export-co.)
2. Irregardless of how many pictures are provided by the seller, unless you have the packs in your hand you will NOT be able to determine if the "roller lines" are perfectly aligned and undisturbed. Even when you have the packs in hand you still need a magnifying glass to confidently interpret the integrity of the roller lines.
Bottom line: With respect to unopened material on ebay the REPUTATION of the seller far outweighs the seller feeback rating and amount of pictures provided.
"You tell 'em I'm coming...and hell's coming with me"--Wyatt Earp
I will add my opinion and example to this discussion AND without bashing a whole group of people based on the way they talk.
A year or so ago before ebay started banning sales of Jordan rookies without being graded, the average price of a Jordan RC (RAW) on ebay was under $100!!!! UNDER $100!!!
That does not mean that all the Jordans were fake, but most were. Every now and then someone got a great bargain and picked up a real Jordan for less than a hundred bucks, but the reason they sell for under a hundred is because of the know (and pereceived) notion that most Jordan's were fake. Real, graded Jordans would sell fro several hundred, even in low grade.
In the case of this discussion, the reason why most ebay boxes sell for less, is because most ARE resealed. To claim that ebay "sets the price" or even BBCE "Sets the price" is ridiculous. Part of the extra money you pay at BBCE is the integrity factor. That being said, I too think that $1125 for a box of 87/88 basketball is a little too much, but then again, I think that $85 for a pack of 1975 Baseball is outrageous as well. Bottom line is the fact that some people are willing to pay extra for something guaranteed to be a good product. Why else would some people go to Craftsteak in Vegas and pay $250 for a steak dinner and others go to Logans Roadhouse and pay $20? Its all about quality and integrity on the product you are getting.
<< <i>I just e-mailed Steve @ BBCE and asked if he'd like to respond about his price points on this box... here is his response:
"We have them listed for $1150.00, which means after everyone(and I mean everyone) asks for and gets a discount, we get around $1000 to $1035.00. Our buy price is $750.00, which means everyone(and I mean everyone) hits us up on our price to pay $800-$825. So we making a fair profit on a box that is tough to come across everyday. Also, we have sold dozens of boxes over the last 6 months. Where do you think 4-Sharp-Corners keeps coming up with low pop PSA 10's? From an old Fleer printing press they found in the dumpster? If anyone wants to ship us real 100% legit boxes at $850.00, we will buy them. If anyone wants to buy any of ours at $1000, we will do so. If I can't make $150.00 on a box that I put $850.00 into, then I am going to McDonalds to apply for a job." >>
Excellent response from Steve. However, I was going by his listed buy/sell spreads, which is considerably MORE than $150 (its actually $400!!!). I have nothing against BBCE, in fact I have driven over there several times to buy wax, and have always been 110% satisfied! For those of you who missed the point of this thread, let me help you out. When a presumably legit box of 87/88 fleer basketball closes for about HALF of what BBCE sells the same box for, AND the set is basically dead, AND the only decent pull is a few $40 Jordans, we need to question the pricing structures IMO.
There's two issues here. One is the value of 87-88 Fleer on its own. The other is the premium to be paid for ANY wax product from BBCE vs. random ebay sellers.
87-88 Fleer Wax is RARE stuff, but the actual cards are not. Kind of like rare wax pack trays from the 70's. So there is a premium there. Although, if you are buying to rip, you are better off IMO buying a bunch of sets and subbing for PSAs.
And as for the premium to be paid to BBCE, I think the results of board rips speak for themselves.
Kiss me once, shame on you. Kiss me twice.....let's party.
The value of a box like this is not limited to what the raw cards sell for. As Steve mentioned in his email, once graded, many of these cards sell for hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars, so to a person who doesnt do the grading thing, these boxes are a sure loser....to someone that does, the profitability is still there
<< <i>I just e-mailed Steve @ BBCE and asked if he'd like to respond about his price points on this box... here is his response:
"We have them listed for $1150.00, which means after everyone(and I mean everyone) asks for and gets a discount, we get around $1000 to $1035.00. Our buy price is $750.00, which means everyone(and I mean everyone) hits us up on our price to pay $800-$825. So we making a fair profit on a box that is tough to come across everyday. Also, we have sold dozens of boxes over the last 6 months. Where do you think 4-Sharp-Corners keeps coming up with low pop PSA 10's? From an old Fleer printing press they found in the dumpster? If anyone wants to ship us real 100% legit boxes at $850.00, we will buy them. If anyone wants to buy any of ours at $1000, we will do so. If I can't make $150.00 on a box that I put $850.00 into, then I am going to McDonalds to apply for a job." >>
Excellent response from Steve. However, I was going by his listed buy/sell spreads, which is considerably MORE than $150 (its actually $400!!!). I have nothing against BBCE, in fact I have driven over there several times to buy wax, and have always been 110% satisfied! For those of you who missed the point of this thread, let me help you out. When a presumably legit box of 87/88 fleer basketball closes for about HALF of what BBCE sells the same box for, AND the set is basically dead, AND the only decent pull is a few $40 Jordans, we need to question the pricing structures IMO. >>
I don't mean to continue to pile on but... how do you know this box is "a presumably legit box" - many people have spoken up that ebay is a crap shoot at best and that it's almost impossible to tell from pictures if a box is in fact the real deal.
The seller is not fly by night. Look at what he sells. Its not a bunch of used car parts and then BAM!!!! a box of this calibur. But maybe you guys are all right. It CANT POSSIBLY be legit unless it comes directly from the BBCE warehouse!!! Wake up and realize that this isnt a $1125 box! I dont care if God himself is selling it!
<< <i> Excellent response from Steve. However, I was going by his listed buy/sell spreads, which is considerably MORE than $150 (its actually $400!!!). I have nothing against BBCE, in fact I have driven over there several times to buy wax, and have always been 110% satisfied! For those of you who missed the point of this thread, let me help you out. When a presumably legit box of 87/88 fleer basketball closes for about HALF of what BBCE sells the same box for, AND the set is basically dead, AND the only decent pull is a few $40 Jordans, we need to question the pricing structures IMO. >>
<< <i>The seller is not fly by night. Look at what he sells. Its not a bunch of used car parts and then BAM!!!! a box of this calibur. But maybe you guys are all right. It CANT POSSIBLY be legit unless it comes directly from the BBCE warehouse!!! Wake up and realize that this isnt a $1125 box! I dont care if God himself is selling it! >>
You're right. Steve himself said he'd sell for less. Guess this conversation is over.
No one is saying that's the only place it could come from. But as you said they're an industry leader. That's why many go to and trust them.
• regardless; a combination of irrespective and regardless sometimes used humorously.
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
• Irregardless is a term meaning in spite of or anyway, that has caused controversy since it first appeared in the early twentieth century. It is generally listed in dictionaries as "incorrect" or "nonstandard."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregardless
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so. - Dictionary.com
there is a reason steve has the best inventory , because he advertises and is willing to pay very good prices to get it. He then sells it for less than fire sale ebay prices because people trust the product. as forthe list prices, like steve said , if you ask , he always works with you so obvisouly there will always be some additional markup because he is expecting negotiation. hell we all do it everyday when we wait for the 10% off coupon to come to buy a new tv at best buy. they couldn't offer that coupon if they didn't have any mark up
<< <i>I'm just amazed that he's still allowed to post here after his thread on unemployment. >>
'Sir, I realize it's been difficult for you to sleep at night without your EX/MT 1977 Topps Tom Seaver, but I swear to you that you'll get it safe and sound.' -CDs Nuts, 1/20/14
Hart has long noted that 75% of the "unopened" stuff on EBAY is "garbage." I think the number is likely higher; 100% of the crooks' listings are fake, and about 90% of the "honest but inexperienced" resellers'/collectors' stuff is bad.
High-feedback means NOTHING, if the legit seller simply lacks the skill to KNOW if the merch is legit. FEW EBAY-buyers know whether or not a "sealed" item is legit; obviously, they will leave positive-FB if they simply receive the item.
Good pictures mean NOTHING. Resealed stuff needs to be examined in-hand, by somebody who KNOWS what evidence they are looking for.
If I was going to spend hundreds-of-bucks for sealed packs/boxes, I would NOT let "price" be the deciding factor. Stuff that is guaranteed real/legit simply costs more than "might be good" stuff does.
For a good while, experienced EBAYers have discounted their bids on unopened stuff. They are gambling that their low-bids make the risk acceptable. That's fine if such buyers are making a resale play, NOT so fine if they are wanting to collect REAL stuff that has VALUE in out years.
IMV, any premium Hart charges is value-added. He won't lie about a product, and if he makes an error he will solve the problem after the sale. Good luck trying to find much of that combo on EBAY.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
I have only dealt with Steve once and that was for a cheap box that I wanted to build a set out of. But everything I have seen and heard on these boards leads me to believe everything that Storm said is absolutly true and dead on!! Steve has a "value added" premium built in because you know the packs are real and unsearched. You dont want to pay the additional premium....just dont buy it. why is there even a discussion on his prices!!
Geez, do you argue with the Wal-Mart service desk when they raise the prices on Kotex because K-mart now has it 50 cents cheaper???
<< <i>everything I have seen and heard on these boards leads me to believe everything that Storm said is absolutly true and dead on!! Steve has a "value added" premium built in because you know the packs are real and unsearched. You dont want to pay the additional premium....just dont buy it. why is there even a discussion on his prices!! >>
I agree with the above, and everyone else who chimed in with the same response. Also, you have to remember, unopened packs will go up over time...probably not '52 Mantle, but they will eventually go up as the pool dries.
Patrick
edit: "probaby not '52 Mantle" I'm saying packs will probably not go up that much.
Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards. Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>wow this got interesting... Personally I don't trust ebay - after talking with Steve he said there is no way to tell from pictures if something has been resealed in most cases - so all the "good" pictures in the world don't mean a thing. I'd be willing to bet 3 very oc Jordans will be pulled from this box. >>
At a price of just $40 per Jordan, and the stars selling for under 5 bucks apiece, is it really worth the hassle to search this box? And before you spew off about how the Jordan used to be a $150 card, remember that centering wasnt even close to as important as it has become in the past 5-7 years! Back in 1991, nobody cared about 55/45 centering vs 70/30 centering. >>
If I wanted to run a scam and make some money back after I cracked openned 3-4 boxes and "cherry picked" the good cards and then created a box to sell and dump the oc cards and make money back than yes I could see someone doing this. People scam for a lot less!
<< <i>Amazing when the coolaid drinkers have no idea what they are talking about! >>
Yeah, you should really lay off that stuff...
What's the point of your post?
If you think prices are high, don't buy from BBCE. It's pretty simple and any adult can figure that out.
<< <i>
<< <i>Amazing when the coolaid drinkers have no idea what they are talking about! >>
Yeah, you should really lay off that stuff...
What's the point of your post?
If you think prices are high, don't buy from BBCE. It's pretty simple and any adult can figure that out. >>
Oh, so you DONT want to compare ALL the recent sold items? Oh ok....didnt think so.
<< <i>
<< <i>Amazing when the coolaid drinkers have no idea what they are talking about! >>
Yeah, you should really lay off that stuff...
What's the point of your post?
If you think prices are high, don't buy from BBCE. It's pretty simple and any adult can figure that out. >>
Exactly. I could spend all day surfing the internet finding retail prices 20...30...50...100% higher than on eBay. So what? If you don't like it, don't buy it.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Amazing when the coolaid drinkers have no idea what they are talking about! >>
Yeah, you should really lay off that stuff...
What's the point of your post?
If you think prices are high, don't buy from BBCE. It's pretty simple and any adult can figure that out. >>
Exactly. I could spend all day surfing the internet finding retail prices 20...30...50...100% higher than on eBay. So what? If you don't like it, don't buy it. >>
The "point" is that BBCE is regarded not as some online retail store, but rather the INDUSTRY LEADER in the products we are discussing. My question is, will BBCE acknowledge the current market conditions, and follow recent auction sales, and adjust their prices accordingly to reflect whats going on realistically?
<< <i>
Oh, so you DONT want to compare ALL the recent sold items? Oh ok....didnt think so.
What do I need to do that for? If you don't want to pay BBCE prices that doesn't effect me at all!
The seller has sold 1981 football boxes for way below and way above BBCE prices, he's sold 1980 topps boxes for way below and equal to BBCE prices. He's sold 1982 topps vending boxes for more than I bought them from BBCE...
Looks to me like this guy loses big on some ebay sales, has gained big on a few, and is close to even on others... sounds like a typical auction market to me.
Declaring that the market is different based on very little information is statistically insignificant. Statisitically speaking there is little proof the market has changed.
<< <i>
The "point" is that BBCE is regarded not as some online retail store, but rather the INDUSTRY LEADER in the products we are discussing. My question is, will BBCE acknowledge the current market conditions, and follow recent auction sales, and adjust their prices accordingly to reflect whats going on realistically? >>
They're an industry leader because they're trusted, courteous, have a good inventory, and you know what you're getting when you buy from them. And when something goes wrong, they make it right. That's worth a markup to many.
They're a business. Trying to make a profit is what they do. Check out 707. They're an "industry leader" in Mickey Mantle cards, and their prices are usually well above eBay. But a hell of a lot of people deal with them because they don't want the hassle/risk involved with eBay.
They DO adjust their prices to a realistic setting. Prices change all the time, and they seem to be doing just fine with the sales they are getting, so that's about as realistic as it can get.
<< <i>Oh, so you DONT want to compare ALL the recent sold items? Oh ok....didnt think so.
When he starts to say things like this, you realize the kind of person you are dealing with, and continuing the argument becomes pointless
<< <i>Edited to add: Amazing when the coolaid drinkers have no idea what they are talking about! >>
Nice, in name calling most people on here when they disagree with you. Good "discussion" technique.
You are complaining about BBCE's pricing, it is not a discussion you are whining they are too high.
They can set the pricing where they want and if you choose not to buy you don't.
It sounds like you have an ax to grind about BBCE and you are using this as strawman attack on their credibility.
Also your "they look good to me" defense of those packs as being legit is worthless, odds are, just like with autos, they have been messed with at some time. You don't think dealers in the mid 90s were resealing this crap all the time? Those boxes and those dealers are still around moving this garbage.
<< <i>Are you being serious? Would you like to go over each box sold by this guy over the last 2 weeks on ebay and compare them to BBCE's prices? I'll go first:
$610 vs BBCE's price of around $1200 (when they have them)
Your turn.
Edited to add: Amazing when the coolaid drinkers have no idea what they are talking about! >>
have a swig.
after some thought, i've come up with an answer to this one, too.....another fine example and here's why:
this 1980-81 Topps Basketball box is currently dependent on the availability of ONE CARD! need i mention it? the price has been diving for quite awhile now.....when the Registry demanded it, people busted boxes, graded cards and sold them off at premium prices, but now many folks have what they want and you could holler into a canyon looking for a buyer......same for 87-88 Fleer, and whatever else this overloaded market has to offer.
does this mean Steve should lower his prices? what if he invested a certain amount of money into his inventory and doesn't want to take the hit? or, what if he simply believes that his buyers will continue to trust him and pay those prices, because that seems to be what they are doing, in spite of or, BECAUSE OF the other facts available to them.
a more diverse set of examples and comparisons is needed.
<< <i>
<< <i>Oh, so you DONT want to compare ALL the recent sold items? Oh ok....didnt think so.
When he starts to say things like this, you realize the kind of person you are dealing with, and continuing the argument becomes pointless >>
I'm just amazed that he's still allowed to post here after his thread on unemployment
"We have them listed for $1150.00, which means after everyone(and I mean everyone) asks for and gets a discount, we get around $1000 to $1035.00. Our buy price is $750.00, which means everyone(and I mean everyone) hits us up on our price to pay $800-$825. So we making a fair profit on a box that is tough to come across everyday. Also, we have sold dozens of boxes over the last 6 months. Where do you think 4-Sharp-Corners keeps coming up with low pop PSA 10's? From an old Fleer printing press they found in the dumpster?
If anyone wants to ship us real 100% legit boxes at $850.00, we will buy them. If anyone wants to buy any of ours at $1000, we will do so. If I can't make $150.00 on a box that I put $850.00 into, then I am going to McDonalds to apply for a job."
<< <i>I just e-mailed Steve @ BBCE and asked if he'd like to respond about his price points on this box... here is his response:
"We have them listed for $1150.00, which means after everyone(and I mean everyone) asks for and gets a discount, we get around $1000 to $1035.00. Our buy price is $750.00, which means everyone(and I mean everyone) hits us up on our price to pay $800-$825. So we making a fair profit on a box that is tough to come across everyday. Also, we have sold dozens of boxes over the last 6 months. Where do you think 4-Sharp-Corners keeps coming up with low pop PSA 10's? From an old Fleer printing press they found in the dumpster?
If anyone wants to ship us real 100% legit boxes at $850.00, we will buy them. If anyone wants to buy any of ours at $1000, we will do so. If I can't make $150.00 on a box that I put $850.00 into, then I am going to McDonalds to apply for a job." >>
Don't let some guy with no creditability and list of complaints about the world get to you, Steve. All of your customers know you are on the up and up.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>
<< <i>I just e-mailed Steve @ BBCE and asked if he'd like to respond about his price points on this box... here is his response:
"We have them listed for $1150.00, which means after everyone(and I mean everyone) asks for and gets a discount, we get around $1000 to $1035.00. Our buy price is $750.00, which means everyone(and I mean everyone) hits us up on our price to pay $800-$825. So we making a fair profit on a box that is tough to come across everyday. Also, we have sold dozens of boxes over the last 6 months. Where do you think 4-Sharp-Corners keeps coming up with low pop PSA 10's? From an old Fleer printing press they found in the dumpster?
If anyone wants to ship us real 100% legit boxes at $850.00, we will buy them. If anyone wants to buy any of ours at $1000, we will do so. If I can't make $150.00 on a box that I put $850.00 into, then I am going to McDonalds to apply for a job." >>
Don't let some guy with no creditability and list of complaints about the world get to you, Steve. All of your customers know you are on the up and up. >>
I think he was just trying to be funny... It was a classic response!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Amazing when the coolaid drinkers have no idea what they are talking about! >>
Yeah, you should really lay off that stuff...
What's the point of your post?
If you think prices are high, don't buy from BBCE. It's pretty simple and any adult can figure that out. >>
Exactly. I could spend all day surfing the internet finding retail prices 20...30...50...100% higher than on eBay. So what? If you don't like it, don't buy it. >>
The "point" is that BBCE is regarded not as some online retail store, but rather the INDUSTRY LEADER in the products we are discussing. My question is, will BBCE acknowledge the current market conditions, and follow recent auction sales, and adjust their prices accordingly to reflect whats going on realistically? >>
The fact is, Steve is an industry leader in his specialty. Why don't you try competing with Steve if you think you have a better formula. If what you are implying is true, then obviously there is plenty of market room for you. However, I would bet you never ran a business and have no clue what you are talking about.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
1. Many of the most notorious pack resealers on ebay have 100%
feedback ratings (i.e. pastoney, import-export-co.)
2. Irregardless of how many pictures are provided by the seller,
unless you have the packs in your hand you will NOT be able to
determine if the "roller lines" are perfectly aligned and
undisturbed. Even when you have the packs in hand you still
need a magnifying glass to confidently interpret the integrity of
the roller lines.
Bottom line: With respect to unopened material on ebay the
REPUTATION of the seller far outweighs the seller
feeback rating and amount of pictures provided.
That's the ONLY part that matters.
I don't care if he gets them for free; if he can sell them for more than a thousand and turn product over sufficiently for his needs, then he should.
People who want to pay less have plenty of ebay sellers to choose from.
Where do you think 4-Sharp-Corners keeps coming up with low pop PSA 10's? From an old Fleer printing press they found in the dumpster?
Actually...
You should all be thankful you have a legit source like BBCE to buy that stuff from.
Also, LOL at "From an old Fleer printing press they found in the dumpster?"
Kiss me twice.....let's party.
A year or so ago before ebay started banning sales of Jordan rookies without being graded, the average price of a Jordan RC (RAW) on ebay was under $100!!!! UNDER $100!!!
That does not mean that all the Jordans were fake, but most were. Every now and then someone got a great bargain and picked up a real Jordan for less than a hundred bucks, but the reason they sell for under a hundred is because of the know (and pereceived) notion that most Jordan's were fake. Real, graded Jordans would sell fro several hundred, even in low grade.
In the case of this discussion, the reason why most ebay boxes sell for less, is because most ARE resealed. To claim that ebay "sets the price" or even BBCE "Sets the price" is ridiculous. Part of the extra money you pay at BBCE is the integrity factor. That being said, I too think that $1125 for a box of 87/88 basketball is a little too much, but then again, I think that $85 for a pack of 1975 Baseball is outrageous as well. Bottom line is the fact that some people are willing to pay extra for something guaranteed to be a good product. Why else would some people go to Craftsteak in Vegas and pay $250 for a steak dinner and others go to Logans Roadhouse and pay $20? Its all about quality and integrity on the product you are getting.
<< <i>I just e-mailed Steve @ BBCE and asked if he'd like to respond about his price points on this box... here is his response:
"We have them listed for $1150.00, which means after everyone(and I mean everyone) asks for and gets a discount, we get around $1000 to $1035.00. Our buy price is $750.00, which means everyone(and I mean everyone) hits us up on our price to pay $800-$825. So we making a fair profit on a box that is tough to come across everyday. Also, we have sold dozens of boxes over the last 6 months. Where do you think 4-Sharp-Corners keeps coming up with low pop PSA 10's? From an old Fleer printing press they found in the dumpster?
If anyone wants to ship us real 100% legit boxes at $850.00, we will buy them. If anyone wants to buy any of ours at $1000, we will do so. If I can't make $150.00 on a box that I put $850.00 into, then I am going to McDonalds to apply for a job." >>
Excellent response from Steve. However, I was going by his listed buy/sell spreads, which is considerably MORE than $150 (its actually $400!!!). I have nothing against BBCE, in fact I have driven over there several times to buy wax, and have always been 110% satisfied! For those of you who missed the point of this thread, let me help you out. When a presumably legit box of 87/88 fleer basketball closes for about HALF of what BBCE sells the same box for, AND the set is basically dead, AND the only decent pull is a few $40 Jordans, we need to question the pricing structures IMO.
87-88 Fleer Wax is RARE stuff, but the actual cards are not. Kind of like rare wax pack trays from the 70's. So there is a premium there. Although, if you are buying to rip, you are better off IMO buying a bunch of sets and subbing for PSAs.
And as for the premium to be paid to BBCE, I think the results of board rips speak for themselves.
Kiss me twice.....let's party.
The value of a box like this is not limited to what the raw cards sell for. As Steve mentioned in his email, once graded, many of these cards sell for hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars, so to a person who doesnt do the grading thing, these boxes are a sure loser....to someone that does, the profitability is still there
<< <i>
<< <i>I just e-mailed Steve @ BBCE and asked if he'd like to respond about his price points on this box... here is his response:
"We have them listed for $1150.00, which means after everyone(and I mean everyone) asks for and gets a discount, we get around $1000 to $1035.00. Our buy price is $750.00, which means everyone(and I mean everyone) hits us up on our price to pay $800-$825. So we making a fair profit on a box that is tough to come across everyday. Also, we have sold dozens of boxes over the last 6 months. Where do you think 4-Sharp-Corners keeps coming up with low pop PSA 10's? From an old Fleer printing press they found in the dumpster?
If anyone wants to ship us real 100% legit boxes at $850.00, we will buy them. If anyone wants to buy any of ours at $1000, we will do so. If I can't make $150.00 on a box that I put $850.00 into, then I am going to McDonalds to apply for a job." >>
Excellent response from Steve. However, I was going by his listed buy/sell spreads, which is considerably MORE than $150 (its actually $400!!!). I have nothing against BBCE, in fact I have driven over there several times to buy wax, and have always been 110% satisfied! For those of you who missed the point of this thread, let me help you out. When a presumably legit box of 87/88 fleer basketball closes for about HALF of what BBCE sells the same box for, AND the set is basically dead, AND the only decent pull is a few $40 Jordans, we need to question the pricing structures IMO. >>
I don't mean to continue to pile on but... how do you know this box is "a presumably legit box" - many people have spoken up that ebay is a crap shoot at best and that it's almost impossible to tell from pictures if a box is in fact the real deal.
<< <i>$3 >>
lol
<< <i>
Excellent response from Steve. However, I was going by his listed buy/sell spreads, which is considerably MORE than $150 (its actually $400!!!). I have nothing against BBCE, in fact I have driven over there several times to buy wax, and have always been 110% satisfied! For those of you who missed the point of this thread, let me help you out. When a presumably legit box of 87/88 fleer basketball closes for about HALF of what BBCE sells the same box for, AND the set is basically dead, AND the only decent pull is a few $40 Jordans, we need to question the pricing structures IMO. >>
I don't think everyone presumes it is legit.
<< <i>The seller is not fly by night. Look at what he sells. Its not a bunch of used car parts and then BAM!!!! a box of this calibur. But maybe you guys are all right. It CANT POSSIBLY be legit unless it comes directly from the BBCE warehouse!!! Wake up and realize that this isnt a $1125 box! I dont care if God himself is selling it! >>
You're right. Steve himself said he'd sell for less. Guess this conversation is over.
No one is saying that's the only place it could come from. But as you said they're an industry leader. That's why many go to and trust them.
PS - God collects vintage baseball.
<< <i>The difference is that "thebuckco" sold that box not BBCE. >>
Avatar jinx!
edited to add:
Definitions of irregardless on the Web:
• regardless; a combination of irrespective and regardless sometimes used humorously.
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
• Irregardless is a term meaning in spite of or anyway, that has caused controversy since it first appeared in the early twentieth century. It is generally listed in dictionaries as "incorrect" or "nonstandard."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irregardless
Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so. - Dictionary.com
Goober: You have $1100 on your box of unopened cards. I can buy them on Ebay all day long for $500. Will you take $800?
BBCE: If you can buy boxes for $500 on Ebay why would you want to pay me $800?
Goober: Because the last 9 boxes I bought on Ebay were no good so I'm done buying on Ebay.
Goober: I didn't hear back. Is my $800 offer good?
<< <i>I'm just amazed that he's still allowed to post here after his thread on unemployment. >>
-CDs Nuts, 1/20/14
*1956 Topps baseball- 97.4% complete, 7.24 GPA
*Clemente basic set: 85.0% complete, 7.89 GPA
I think the number is likely higher; 100% of the crooks' listings are fake, and
about 90% of the "honest but inexperienced" resellers'/collectors' stuff is bad.
High-feedback means NOTHING, if the legit seller simply lacks the skill to KNOW
if the merch is legit. FEW EBAY-buyers know whether or not a "sealed" item is
legit; obviously, they will leave positive-FB if they simply receive the item.
Good pictures mean NOTHING. Resealed stuff needs to be examined in-hand,
by somebody who KNOWS what evidence they are looking for.
If I was going to spend hundreds-of-bucks for sealed packs/boxes, I would NOT
let "price" be the deciding factor. Stuff that is guaranteed real/legit simply costs
more than "might be good" stuff does.
For a good while, experienced EBAYers have discounted their bids on unopened
stuff. They are gambling that their low-bids make the risk acceptable. That's
fine if such buyers are making a resale play, NOT so fine if they are wanting to
collect REAL stuff that has VALUE in out years.
IMV, any premium Hart charges is value-added. He won't lie about a product,
and if he makes an error he will solve the problem after the sale. Good luck
trying to find much of that combo on EBAY.
Geez, do you argue with the Wal-Mart service desk when they raise the prices on Kotex because K-mart now has it 50 cents cheaper???
<< <i>everything I have seen and heard on these boards leads me to believe everything that Storm said is absolutly true and dead on!! Steve has a "value added" premium built in because you know the packs are real and unsearched. You dont want to pay the additional premium....just dont buy it. why is there even a discussion on his prices!! >>
I agree with the above, and everyone else who chimed in with the same response. Also, you have to remember, unopened packs will go up over time...probably not '52 Mantle, but they will eventually go up as the pool dries.
Patrick
edit: "probaby not '52 Mantle" I'm saying packs will probably not go up that much.
<< <i>George is gettin angry! >>
SERENITY NOW
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
Steve