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BBCE prices out of line perhaps? 1987/88 Fleer Basketball
gecko109
Posts: 8,231 ✭
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gecko109
Posts: 8,231 ✭
gecko109
Posts: 8,231 ✭
gecko109
Posts: 8,231 ✭
gecko109
Posts: 8,231 ✭
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I once bought a box of 1978 Topps baseball from ebay (before I knew better), and the packs were all resealed, I will NEVER buy wax from anywhere else but BBCE from now on.
<< <i>That's ebay, where you have no clue if those packs are searched or not. It's a gamble. I personally don't like to gamble with $1k. BBCE's prices are what the actual market value SHOULD be for unopened wax.
I once bought a box of 1978 Topps baseball from ebay (before I knew better), and the packs were all resealed, I will NEVER buy wax from anywhere else but BBCE from now on. >>
100% feedback.....plenty of photos....looks legit to me. When you say "actual market value should be", are you implying that BBCE solely sets the market?
that's all it is......87-88 Fleer Basketball has become somewhat of a dog in the modern bball card world and the overall interest in the set has diminished.....i sold the same unopened box on eBay for almost $900 a couple years ago and i'm not BBCE.
the people have spoken.
<< <i>100% feedback.....plenty of photos....looks legit to me. When you say "actual market value should be", are you implying that BBCE solely sets the market? >>
The 1978 Topps box I bought was from a similar seller, 100% positive, tons of feedback, he just received a bad box from his supplier. After about a week of stress, and loss of sleep, he put me in contact with the guy who he got the box from, and that guy refunded my money. I then took that money to BBCE and bought a 1978 Topps box. I was thrilled with it.
The 1987/88 Fleer box you're using for an example is an extreme case due to what itzagoner said about that set. While BBCE does seem a small percentage higher than what I can find on ebay for most of his stock, he also carries some boxes for cheaper than what they're listed for on ebay.
When it comes to wax like this, I will always be willing to pay the premium, to RECEIVE the premium.
<< <i>87-88 Fleer Basketball has become somewhat of a dog in the modern bball card world and the overall interest in the set has diminished.....i sold the same unopened box on eBay for almost $900 a couple years ago and i'm not BBCE.
>>
Couldn't have said it better myself.
BBCE usually adjusts their prices based on market value but their prices will remain the same as long as they have an occassional buyer for their asking price.
<< <i>I can't speak specifically to this box, but in general I'd much rather go to BBCE and know what I'm getting. >>
That might be the problem. If we think that the ONLY game in town is BBCE, then their inventory will continue to show bloated pricing. I think this 87/88 box is legit, and I also think that it sold for a very realistic price considering what it is. Does anyone here honestly think this box is worth $1125?
BBCE has a following and can set a market, so yes to your question.
This seller simply does not have the following and had to settle for wholesale.
Steve
Steve Hart is much an expert as there is on unopened vs. resealed material.
If you want to buy something you are sure is not resealed, buy from BBCE. If you don't like their prices and want to trust ebay's rating system or wherever else, go there. Plenty of legit boxes get sold on ebay every day, but there is generally little way to discern legit from not. Especially since it's not uncommon to get a bad box even if you were to buy direct from a fresh factory sealed case.
In simple math... You can pay $600 and get a box that may be real, but if it isn't you are out $600. Or you can $1100 and be certain that what you are getting is real.
I do a little of both, but only after a lot of research on the seller and other items they sell and would only consider BBCE for something in this price range. It's just too lucrative for a resealer to do their work on modern packs that fetch that much of a premium.
<< <i>If legit the box simply sold at a wholesale level. What is so hard to understand?
BBCE has a following and can set a market, so yes to your question.
This seller simply does not have the following and had to settle for wholesale.
Steve >>
BBCE has an advertised "buy price" of $750 on this particular product. So this box actually sold for 10% LESS than wholesale. If you believe BBCE's buy price to be wholesale. What would be fun to know is exactly how many of these BBCE has sold in the last 6 months at their asking price. My wager is less than 4.
<< <i>
<< <i>I can't speak specifically to this box, but in general I'd much rather go to BBCE and know what I'm getting. >>
That might be the problem. If we think that the ONLY game in town is BBCE, then their inventory will continue to show bloated pricing. I think this 87/88 box is legit, and I also think that it sold for a very realistic price considering what it is. Does anyone here honestly think this box is worth $1125? >>
I'm not sure what the argument is. They set their price. If it sells, then yes "someone" thought it was worth $1125. No one is forcing you to buy from BBCE.
I would assume BBCE has a hell of a lot more overhead than Joe Ebayseller. And a lot of people are willing to pay extra for the knowledge, service, and "guarantee" that they're buying a legit box.
Steve
Why don't you email Steve and ask him?
He generally is an upfront guy and will tell you.
Steve
If BBCE's prices are out of line, they won't sell anything... period...
If people are buying then they can list it for whatever they feel is appropriate.
<< <i>BBCE has an advertised "buy price" of $750 on this particular product. >>
So more lor less, the ebay seller is foolish for leaving money on the table and could've sent it to Steve and received a larger sales price.
I know he blogged once before about people buying these bargains off ebay and trying to send them to him for a profit only to find out they were resealed.
<< <i>We as a group bought that same box from BBCE for $1035, just last month. There were no complaints. >>
So buying a $28 pack is equivalent to buying a $1085 box? Are you serious? Allow me to show you why you are wrong:
Neglecting graded cards (you could have a box with 3 Jordan 10's, or a box with centering issues, so we ignore "potential grades"), at $28, a pack has a possibility to return the full investment plus some with a Jordan ($40 card raw). However, buying a full box for $1085 is GUARANTEED to make you a $700 loser (3 sets at about $100 each). Do you see the difference?
If he knew he was only going to get $660 for the box, he would have sold it to BBCE. I am fairly certain the seller was expecting a lot more for the box.
Here's a beat up box with questionable packs that sold for $725. HERE
<< <i>
<< <i>BBCE has an advertised "buy price" of $750 on this particular product. >>
So more lor less, the ebay seller is foolish for leaving money on the table and could've sent it to Steve and received a larger sales price.
I know he blogged once before about people buying these bargains off ebay and trying to send them to him for a profit only to find out they were resealed. >>
"So more lor less, the ebay seller is foolish for leaving money on the table and could've sent it to Steve and received a larger sales price. "
First off, it wasnt a BIN, it was an auction in which the seller probably assumed the box would sell for more than $750.
Secondly, the fact that in an open market, with GOOD photos, and a 100% feedback seller, this box failed to even make $700.
Is it possible....just possible that the collector base has spoken with this auction? That just because BBCE sells box "A" for "X" $$$ does not mean thats what the fair market value is?
Who sets the prices afterall? Sellers or buyers? Thats right, its the buyers/collectors who determine fair market value. Not BBCE's website.
OR.........i could choose to find that exact same car in an "auction", but then, i may have questions or doubts if i win that car, because who knows what happened to it before it got to me?
Where did the above poster claim it was a BIN?
One ebay sale does not make a market.
Steve
<< <i>Here ya go, gecko. Take a number.
Hey, wheres my "complaint"? Please tell me what im complaining about. Im simply discussing the possibility of BBCE's pricing being a bit inflated in the current market. I see no complaint at all.
<< <i>"So more lor less, the ebay seller is foolish for leaving money on the table and could've sent it to Steve and received a larger sales price."
Where did the above poster claim it was a BIN?
One ebay sale does not make a market.
Steve >>
Because the seller had no idea the box would sell for almost $100 less than BBCE's buy price. Therefore he didnt leave money on the table per say. The auction simple netted him what the TRUE going rate is for this box in THIS market.
If BBCE is so overpriced, then why am I about to buy 5 "junk wax" boxes from BBCE for considerably less than what they are listed for on ebay? It all depends on what you're looking for.
I feel like you're using the 1987/88 box as a general example of how BBCE is unfairly overpriced. Not a very good example if you ask me.
<< <i>
One ebay sale does not make a market.
Steve >>
Exactly. Thank you.
Lately it appears that EVERY package that comes in from someone trying to sell me stuff is tampered with or completely re-sealed. I tend to believe that 90% of the customers trying to sell me stuff do not know it themselves, but got burned along the way by another scumbag. We have seen it all lately. There has been resealed boxes of 1975,1976,1977 and 1978 Topps baseball. 1975/76 Topps hockey. 1984 Donruss baseball. 19986 Fleer basketball. 1977 Topps football. 1970 Topps baseball. Packs from the 50's and 60's. And for anyone out there who thinks that rack packs are the hardest/most difficult, think again! We have gotten numerous re-sealed 1971 Topps baseball and football racks. 1968 Topps baseball racks. 1975 Topps baseball racks. They are the hardest to detect, but are being done the most (due to them being the hardest to detect).
I am going to say that most of this stuff is coming from ebay. I would estimate that 75% of all the stuff on ebay is resealed garbage. Customers are buying it from ebay and then offering it to me at a profit. Unfortunately, the stuff is no good. This hurts everyone in this aspect of the hobby/business. It brings down the prices of the REAL/AUTHENTIC unopened stuff. I've heard in the past that at the BBCE we sell stuff 20-30% higher than normal, but you get good stuff that you pay for. The problem here I see is that we are 20-30% higher than realized prices on ebay. HOWEVER, if it is 20-30% cheaper than our prices and it's 100% no good, did you really save anything?? We would GLADLY pay the prices that stuff seems to end up at on ebay. However, its mostly garbage.
Be careful our there! We would gladly offer our opinion on something before you buy it or after you purchase it for free. Thanks, Steve Hart
Link To Scanned 1952 Topps Cards Set is now 90% Complete Plus Slideshows of the 52 Set
Link To Scanned 1952 Topps Cards Set is now 90% Complete Plus Slideshows of the 52 Set
<< <i>Like I said before, this is an extreme case with the 1987/88 box.
If BBCE is so overpriced, then why am I about to buy 5 "junk wax" boxes from BBCE for considerably less than what they are listed for on ebay? It all depends on what you're looking for.
I feel like you're using the 1987/88 box as a general example of how BBCE is unfairly overpriced. Not a very good example if you ask me. >>
You are right, I did not mean to imply that all of their stuff is overpriced. But I feel the 87/88 certainly is. I also think that the current group rip of 1989 score football is way out of line as well. $220 for a box that is selling consistantly in the $145-$160 range?
<< <i>
<< <i>We as a group bought that same box from BBCE for $1035, just last month. There were no complaints. >>
So buying a $28 pack is equivalent to buying a $1085 box? Are you serious? Allow me to show you why you are wrong:
Neglecting graded cards (you could have a box with 3 Jordan 10's, or a box with centering issues, so we ignore "potential grades"), at $28, a pack has a possibility to return the full investment plus some with a Jordan ($40 card raw). However, buying a full box for $1085 is GUARANTEED to make you a $700 loser (3 sets at about $100 each). Do you see the difference? >>
Not everyone goes through meticulous calculations when buying something. Your equation above takes out the fun of "gambling" that many love to take.
<< <i>so he acknowledges his prices are 20-30% higher >>
and presumably the majority of his clients do not need Lunesta.
<< <i>so he acknowledges his prices are 20-30% higher >>
I bet you are good at math. And I also bet you can figure out that $1125 is a bit more than 30% higher than $660.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>We as a group bought that same box from BBCE for $1035, just last month. There were no complaints. >>
So buying a $28 pack is equivalent to buying a $1085 box? Are you serious? Allow me to show you why you are wrong:
Neglecting graded cards (you could have a box with 3 Jordan 10's, or a box with centering issues, so we ignore "potential grades"), at $28, a pack has a possibility to return the full investment plus some with a Jordan ($40 card raw). However, buying a full box for $1085 is GUARANTEED to make you a $700 loser (3 sets at about $100 each). Do you see the difference? >>
Not everyone goes through meticulous calculations when buying something. Your equation above takes out the fun of "gambling" that many love to take. >>
Buying a pack for $28 is "gambling". Buying a box for $1035 is a sure loser.
<< <i>
<< <i>so he acknowledges his prices are 20-30% higher >>
and presumably the majority of his clients do not need Lunesta. >>
Haha
i suggest you hustle on over there and set him straight.
I kid, I kid...
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>We as a group bought that same box from BBCE for $1035, just last month. There were no complaints. >>
So buying a $28 pack is equivalent to buying a $1085 box? Are you serious? Allow me to show you why you are wrong:
Neglecting graded cards (you could have a box with 3 Jordan 10's, or a box with centering issues, so we ignore "potential grades"), at $28, a pack has a possibility to return the full investment plus some with a Jordan ($40 card raw). However, buying a full box for $1085 is GUARANTEED to make you a $700 loser (3 sets at about $100 each). Do you see the difference? >>
Not everyone goes through meticulous calculations when buying something. Your equation above takes out the fun of "gambling" that many love to take. >>
Buying a pack for $28 is "gambling". Buying a box for $1035 is a sure loser. >>
Again, if you run calculations and make assumptions and care only about flipping your purchase for profit.
There are people who gamble/overspend on a lot of things for the sheer enjoyment of it.
BBCE Prices are way too low.... I mean they only ask $450 for that same box case fresh!!!
amazing what happens when you take 1 sale out of context.
<< <i>Hey Gecko, I'm sorry your box only sold for $660... lol
I kid, I kid...
I had a proxy bid of $575 on it. Thats what it was worth to me to put in my small collection. I was not surprised to see I was close to winning it either. As someone already said here, the set is a real dog, but its from my youth and I would have been happy to part with $575 to have it.
<< <i>Hey that same Ebay seller sold a 1981 Topps Football Wax Box for $590 according to his feedback!!
BBCE Prices are way too low.... I mean they only ask $450 for that same box case fresh!!!
amazing what happens when you take 1 sale out of context. >>
Are you being serious? Would you like to go over each box sold by this guy over the last 2 weeks on ebay and compare them to BBCE's prices? I'll go first:
$610 vs BBCE's price of around $1200 (when they have them)
Your turn.
Edited to add: Amazing when the coolaid drinkers have no idea what they are talking about!
<< <i>
<< <i>Hey Gecko, I'm sorry your box only sold for $660... lol
I kid, I kid...
I had a proxy bid of $575 on it. Thats what it was worth to me to put in my small collection. I was not surprised to see I was close to winning it either. As someone already said here, the set is a real dog, but its from my youth and I would have been happy to part with $575 to have it. >>
and if more people insist on paying at that level, then the market will be reset, and the people will once again speak.
but, won't you feel funny if the set continues to tank and another box bombs on eBay at around $450 next year?
<< <i>wow this got interesting... Personally I don't trust ebay - after talking with Steve he said there is no way to tell from pictures if something has been resealed in most cases - so all the "good" pictures in the world don't mean a thing. I'd be willing to bet 3 very oc Jordans will be pulled from this box. >>
At a price of just $40 per Jordan, and the stars selling for under 5 bucks apiece, is it really worth the hassle to search this box? And before you spew off about how the Jordan used to be a $150 card, remember that centering wasnt even close to as important as it has become in the past 5-7 years! Back in 1991, nobody cared about 55/45 centering vs 70/30 centering.
<< <i>
<< <i>wow this got interesting... Personally I don't trust ebay - after talking with Steve he said there is no way to tell from pictures if something has been resealed in most cases - so all the "good" pictures in the world don't mean a thing. I'd be willing to bet 3 very oc Jordans will be pulled from this box. >>
At a price of just $40 per Jordan, and the stars selling for under 5 bucks apiece, is it really worth the hassle to search this box? And before you spew off about how the Jordan used to be a $150 card, remember that centering wasnt even close to as important as it has become in the past 5-7 years! Back in 1991, nobody cared about 55/45 centering vs 70/30 centering. >>
Yeah leath - quit spewing.
<< <i>is it really worth the hassle to search this box? >>
Are you asking if it's worth it to search a box that sells for $1000 to $660?? Ummmm, I would think any scammer would search this box, yes.
Until you experience what it's like on the crappy end of a $500 resealed junk wax box, I would keep an open mind about the difference between ebay and BBCE prices.
<< <i>Back in 1991, nobody cared about 55/45 centering vs 70/30 centering. >>
this may be the worst of your assumptions.
some people DID care about centering in 1991. and corners. and gloss.
those same people have made a fortune the past few years.