I say again - <When a burglar takes the risk of robbing someone or someplace, he automatically has decided to put his life in peril. It is his actions, and his actions, alone that have sealed his eternal fate>.Text I, too, am a church goer, but there may come a time when you have to do the above. My home was burglarized many years ago. To this day, it has left an indelible mark on my psychic. Oh by the way, the three were caught two weeks later. And yes, I did take pleasure in seeing them go to jail and make restitution. However, if I had been at home the day of the burglary, I can assure you their eternal fate would have been sealed ............by me.
<< <i>I say again - <When a burglar takes the risk of robbing someone or someplace, he automatically has decided to put his life in peril. It is his actions, and his actions, alone that have sealed his eternal fate>.Text I, too, am a church goer, but there may come a time when you have to do the above. My home was burglarized many years ago. To this day, it has left an indelible mark on my psychic. Oh by the way, the three were caught two weeks later. And yes, I did take pleasure in seeing them go to jail and make restitution. However, if I had been at home the day of the burglary, I can assure you their eternal fate would have been sealed ............by me. >>
I guess my point would be would that affect you that someone died from your gunshot? I agree that you should be justified in doing so, but some people are missing my point there. Selectively missing my point.
My second point would be that we can have all kinds of opinions including that he was possible justified and I agree that he was probably justified, but the law may have a different interpretation.
Imho it is always better if possible to let the police take care of things so it does not become personal with someone or a gang looking for revenge against an individual.
<< <i>Imho it is always better if possible to let the police take care of things so it does not become personal with someone or a gang looking for revenge against an individual. >>
That would be all well and good, but if by "police take care of things" you mean "police protect you against burglars", you might want to be aware the police are not obligated to do so, and have no responsibility for the results if they don't.
<< <i>I say again - <When a burglar takes the risk of robbing someone or someplace, he automatically has decided to put his life in peril. It is his actions, and his actions, alone that have sealed his eternal fate>.Text I, too, am a church goer, but there may come a time when you have to do the above. My home was burglarized many years ago. To this day, it has left an indelible mark on my psychic. Oh by the way, the three were caught two weeks later. And yes, I did take pleasure in seeing them go to jail and make restitution. However, if I had been at home the day of the burglary, I can assure you their eternal fate would have been sealed ............by me. >>
I guess my point would be would that affect you that someone died from your gunshot? I agree that you should be justified in doing so, but some people are missing my point there. Selectively missing my point.
My second point would be that we can have all kinds of opinions including that he was possible justified and I agree that he was probably justified, but the law may have a different interpretation. >>
Well, I think that most people would feel badly about killing someone even if its justified. As a crook you have to accept that there is some risk in your actions; sometimes considerable risk. If the robbers have weapons, its reasonable to assume that they intend to use them. That works both ways.
I believe in creationism, but I do have to admit that Darwinism does come into play in this sad circumstance. The would be thief does not get to pass on his genes to the next generation of thieves. The Darwin theory worked. Not necessarily does the strongest always survive, some- times it's the smartest. Good riddance!
bob
Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
<< <i> Well, I think that most people would feel badly about killing someone even if its justified. As a crook you have to accept that there is some risk in your actions; sometimes considerable risk. If the robbers have weapons, its reasonable to assume that they intend to use them. That works both ways. >>
I agree 100%. If my life or family were in harm I would do what it takes to protect myself of them, but it would suck after that. His life is going to be turbulent the next several months.
Once again folks, don't get me wrong, if he were prosecuted I would vote to aquit him too.
<< <i>Imho it is always better if possible to let the police take care of things so it does not become personal with someone or a gang looking for revenge against an individual. >>
That would be all well and good, but if by "police take care of things" you mean "police protect you against burglars", you might want to be aware the police are not obligated to do so, and have no responsibility for the results if they don't. >>
I believe that the thinking is that the police should arrive in time to end it peacefully. Yah, you betcha. Wishful thinking at best.
<< <i>Imho it is always better if possible to let the police take care of things so it does not become personal with someone or a gang looking for revenge against an individual. >>
That would be all well and good, but if by "police take care of things" you mean "police protect you against burglars", you might want to be aware the police are not obligated to do so, and have no responsibility for the results if they don't. >>
I believe that the thinking is that the police should arrive in time to end it peacefully. Yah, you betcha. Wishful thinking at best. >>
True if you have to wait on the police the only thing the police would do is show up to draw a chalk outline of your body.
<< <i> Well, I think that most people would feel badly about killing someone even if its justified. As a crook you have to accept that there is some risk in your actions; sometimes considerable risk. If the robbers have weapons, its reasonable to assume that they intend to use them. That works both ways. >>
I agree 100%. If my life or family were in harm I would do what it takes to protect myself of them, but it would suck after that. His life is going to be turbulent the next several months.
Once again folks, don't get me wrong, if he were prosecuted I would vote to aquit him too. >>
Any DA that prosecutes this ought to have his head examined.
there was a time if someone stole from you in the west you would likely die. no horse, no supplies, and a 100 miles from the nearest help.
i see no reason why a person should allow their things to be stolen.. their hard work and property.. and allow the cops to attempt to get it back when they have a chance to stop it and the culprits.
<< <i> Well, I think that most people would feel badly about killing someone even if its justified. As a crook you have to accept that there is some risk in your actions; sometimes considerable risk. If the robbers have weapons, its reasonable to assume that they intend to use them. That works both ways. >>
I agree 100%. If my life or family were in harm I would do what it takes to protect myself of them, but it would suck after that. His life is going to be turbulent the next several months.
Once again folks, don't get me wrong, if he were prosecuted I would vote to aquit him too. >>
Any DA that prosecutes this ought to have his head examined. >>
Only if he is running for Mayor or any other office.. This is typically where you get your water walkers.. It's a sad day for both parties involved..
<< <i>Imho it is always better if possible to let the police take care of things so it does not become personal with someone or a gang looking for revenge against an individual. >>
That would be all well and good, but if by "police take care of things" you mean "police protect you against burglars", you might want to be aware the police are not obligated to do so, and have no responsibility for the results if they don't. >>
I believe that the thinking is that the police should arrive in time to end it peacefully. Yah, you betcha. Wishful thinking at best. >>
I will just say again inho its not smart to make a situation like that personal whenever possible. If its not possible then do what you have to.
I have found from my own personal experience that the sound a gun makes is usually enough to make a intruder turn tail and run.
<< <i><<<The business owner shouldn't be the one being forced to take a chance on the robber NOT being armed. The robber should be the one taking the chance of potentially being killed for breaking into someone's shop.>>>
Bingo!!!!
You're right PG and so is Texas. A man needs to protect his family, life, and possessions. Let Pilosi and her ilk cry for the criminal thugs that would stomp all over your rights as a human being. >>
Wow, I'm just returning to this thread since this morning and I had a feeling it would be a voluminous one (almost an hour to catch up). I'm glad that it seems to be working out in favor of Mr. Dunlop, whom I have bought from in the past. It's good to see that there are so many different points of view on the forum, it keeps it interesting and I respect everyone's opinion so here is mine.
At the risk of sounding self righteous, I personally have seen too many brave men die of GSW's and soon we have a weekend coming up in which we honor all of these men. I won't grieve for a criminal that preys on others to survive. If that seems callous, I'm sorry but I just don't have room in my heart to feel bad for people which die in an ignoble act when so many others gave their lives for higher ideals.
The thing is, they're not criminals until they are convicted in a court of law in a fair trial. I hope you're not advocating a change to "innocent until proven guilty." That has served us well for some 220 years at least.
Having said that, if someone has a reasonable fear that their safety is in danger if they don't pull the trigger, then the shooting is probably justified.
The thing is, they're not criminals until they are convicted in a court of law in a fair trial. I hope you're not advocating a change to "innocent until proven guilty." That has served us well for some 220 years at least.
Having said that, if someone has a reasonable fear that their safety is in danger if they don't pull the trigger, then the shooting is probably justified. >>
A person that is committing a crime is a criminal.I'm sure we'll find out that this person was an upstanding citizen that had never caused any trouble before.NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm not advocating anything,just saying that someone that is in the middle of committing a felony should not have any rights.Should the shop owner have waited until he knew the would be robbers were going to try to kill him to try to protect himself the news story might have read "Coin shop owner killed during robbery."
1)Police asking for public's help in finding ski mask robbers - 1/03 ...Jan 3, 2009 ... Police think the robbers gain access into homes through open garage doors.
2)Robber in black ski mask took cash from Gardiner Savings Bank ...A white man wearing a black ski mask and dark coat passed a bank teller a ... Wednesday's robbery in Hallowell comes about a month after a robbery at the ...
3)Joker Ski Masks <strike>Perfect For Armed Robbery</strike ...Joker Ski Masks Perfect For Armed Robbery. ... This is a $17 ski mask from Amazon that makes you look like the Joker from The Dark Knight. ...
4)Police investigating armed robbery reported Sunday morning ...May 10, 2009 ... During the robbery, he was wearing a black ski mask, a light-colored long-sleeve shirt, and light-colored long pants, according to Lawrence ...
5)2 masked men flee with $26000 in robbery of bank in Everett - The ...Joel David Martin of Eugene was booked into the Lane County...robbery are described as a rifle with an attached sling, a dark ski mask, a dark top, ...
6)Desoto Times Tribune > News > Local > Robbery suspect wore ski maskApr 16, 2009 ... Robbery suspect wore ski mask ... tall and weighing between 150 to 180 pounds with medium build - put on a black ski mask as he entered the ...
7)Robbery Suspect SurrendersMay 8, 2009 ... A man who wore a tan ski mask while robbing an Omaha gas station, has stepped forward to take responsibility for the crime. ...
8)CRIME Blog | The Dallas Morning NewsNo, we mention this robbery because the FBI provided some bonus photos. ... the robbers outside the bank before they put their ski masks on ...
9)Man with sword, dressed as ninja attempts Weymouth robbery ...Apr 21, 2009 ... Man with sword, dressed as ninja attempts Weymouth robbery ... The man, wearing a ski mask and a sword in a sheath on his belt, ...
....
So, I'm kind of thinking a precedence is set for determining "criminal".
<< <i>A person that is committing a crime is a criminal.I'm sure we'll find out that this person was an upstanding citizen that had never caused any trouble before.NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>
In a nation of laws, a person isn't a criminal until he has been convicted in a fair trial.
Again, just in case it wasn't clear the last time I said it: IF the shop owner did indeed see these perps get inside the store and charge him, he had EVERY reason to plug the perps full of holes and I doubt there's a jury out there (even in CA) that would convict him.
The thing is, they're not criminals until they are convicted in a court of law in a fair trial. I hope you're not advocating a change to "innocent until proven guilty." That has served us well for some 220 years at least.
>>
Yeah, it's served us so well, huh? People can be viewed robbing others, shooting others, killing others, then, they go before a judge/jury and declare themselves as "not quilty" and you are saying they are innocent until they are proven guilty, right? Well, before I agree/disagree with you, define "proven guilty". If no one views them, then I agree that evidence is needed. If they are viewed in the act of the crime, then, to me, it should be considered proven at that stage. To do less is to cheapen the people who abide by the laws and those victimized by the criminals.
The link on my first post now shows video of the robber in a prior break-in, and states the robbers were inside the store and early indications are the shooting was justified.
If you're in your house or store, and you fear for your life, the shooting is justified in CA. The owner should be legally fine. Add to that a 65 yr old man by himself at that normally quiet time of night. He also has the 911 call on his side. seems he did everything right except take out the second one. I'm sure he tried. --Jerry
It's a damn shame that the shop owner wasn't trained well enough to "double tap" BOTH of those scum sucking low lifes. EDITED TO ADD: I'll bet the one found in the parking lot won't be breaking in to anyone elses porperty..
<< <i>The thing is, they're not criminals until they are convicted in a court of law in a fair trial. >>
Just as long as "fair" does not get drawn out to "ridiculous" and I agree that those convicted of felonous crimes should only have "human rights" afforded them which does not include cable TV and telephone priviliges. It should include educational pursuits and not a whole lot more.
As for the "proven guilty", I think this sucker, coupled with certain "rights", has been drawn out to the breaking point in today's society.
Neither of these fellows had any business hanging around a Coin and Jewelry Shop at 4:00 am in the morning wearing ski masks.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
1. Good for the shop owner. It's guys like this that show the rest of us how we need to stand up against the criminal element in this country, because politicians and the courts sure won't.
2. I hear comments (devil's advocate, or otherwise I'm not concerned) about what was the owner doing there, was he lying in wait, and why doesn't he move his store. The way I see it, IT'S HIS STORE and he has a right to be there. As far a why has he not moved, why should he? Why don't trash stop robbing? Why is it there are some people seem to always want to go back to blaming the victim? The man's rights, property and safety were CLEARLY in danger. If they weren't the 2 "gentlemen" wouldn't find it necessary to hide their faces and use pry bars at 4 in the AM.
3. As far as the folks concerned about the mental, emotional and moral implications to killing an EVILDOER, let me say this...Taking a scumbags life may bother you (and I applaud you for your concern - you have my respect), let a person(s) break into my alarmed and armed home while myself and my family are here. I'd be more than happy to spread their brains on my wall in front of their mothers and then go soundly back to sleep.
Bottom line in my mind....if you want to be safe in this world you can't depend on Obama to do it. If you want to be a criminal and try to take whats not yours, better be ready to face what you have coming.
1. Good for the shop owner. It's guys like this that show the rest of us how we need to stand up against the criminal element in this country, because politicians and the courts sure won't.
2. I hear comments (devil's advocate, or otherwise I'm not concerned) about what was the owner doing there, was he lying in wait, and why doesn't he move his store. The way I see it, IT'S HIS STORE and he has a right to be there. As far a why has he not moved, why should he? Why don't trash stop robbing? Why is it there are some people seem to always want to go back to blaming the victim? The man's rights, property and safety were CLEARLY in danger. If they weren't the 2 "gentlemen" wouldn't find it necessary to hide their faces and use pry bars at 4 in the AM.
3. As far as the folks concerned about the mental, emotional and moral implications to killing an EVILDOER, let me say this...Taking a scumbags life may bother you (and I applaud you for your concern - you have my respect), let a person(s) break into my alarmed and armed home while myself and my family are here. I'd be more than happy to spread their brains on my wall in front of their mothers and then go soundly back to sleep.
Bottom line in my mind....if you want to be safe in this world you can't depend on Obama to do it. If you want to be a criminal and try to take whats not yours, better be ready to face what you have coming.
Thanks for reading. >>
when are you running for public office, you have my vote. Now this is the attitude that is going to stop crime, any other attitude will just make crime more prevalent and pervasive. >>
To both of you ... I couldn't have said it better myself. Make that 2 votes!
As far as the folks concerned about the mental, emotional and moral implications to killing an EVILDOER, let me say this...Taking a scumbags life may bother you (and I applaud you for your concern - you have my respect), let a person(s) break into my alarmed and armed home while myself and my family are here. I'd be more than happy to spread their brains on my wall in front of their mothers and then go soundly back to sleep.
If you want to be a criminal and try to take whats not yours, better be ready to face what you have coming.
Thanks for reading. >>
I like your style.. It is amazing that a newbie can voice his opinion like this and not be called a low life piece of Trailer trash hick with a sick mind and a gun like I was in a thread on Guns and crimes I posted months ago and not be addressed in a cruel way of his thinking.. I would love to see the Rats out their that are biting their tounges right now and am waiting to read your view on his comment..
Are you ready Rat boys.. Cheese, cheese, daddy has some cheese.. Come out, come out where ever you are..
<< <i>.........unfortunate event for all parties. i'm hoping the shop owner isn't raked across the coals for this. we all know where this usually goes, unfortunately. the law breakers are coddled while the property owners are left to twist in the wind. >>
This seldom happens in real life, but this angle is played up on conservative talk radio and cable TV.
In California, robbery is a life threatening crime and the penal code permits use of deadly force.
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
The thing is, they're not criminals until they are convicted in a court of law in a fair trial. I hope you're not advocating a change to "innocent until proven guilty." >>
They are criminals the second they commit a crime and it's "presumed innocent until proved guilty".
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The thing is, they're not criminals until they are convicted in a court of law in a fair trial. I hope you're not advocating a change to "innocent until proven guilty." >>
They are criminals the second they commit a crime and it's "presumed innocent until proved guilty". >>
<< <i> I'd be more than happy to spread their brains on my wall in front of their mothers and then go soundly back to sleep. >>
No you wouldn't. No human being could easily forget having to do that. While I agree that you would be justified the sight of gruesome death would affect anyone. I've worked in the prison system for 18+ years with 6 of those years at the largest max prison in Illinois. I've been up close and seen a few murder scenes. I was the first person on the scene of one inmate who had been stabbed to death and laying in a pool of blood. He was a POS himself and should have got the death penalty for his crime, but it's still disturbing to see it. I worked with a couple guards at that prison who had to make the decision to shoot and kill inmates who were stabbing other inmates. It brands in their conscience and the first thing that happens was they didn't want to set foot in that place for weeks. They did their job admirally and made the right decision in both instances, but the fact is is hung with them for years.
If I were in that situation you speak of I would definitely be proud that I protected my family, but would bother me that I had to kill to do so.
Comments
<< <i>I say again - <When a burglar takes the risk of robbing someone or someplace, he automatically has decided to put his life in peril. It is his actions, and his actions, alone that have sealed his eternal fate>.Text I, too, am a church goer, but there may come a time when you have to do the above. My home was burglarized many years ago. To this day, it has left an indelible mark on my psychic. Oh by the way, the three were caught two weeks later. And yes, I did take pleasure in seeing them go to jail and make restitution. However, if I had been at home the day of the burglary, I can assure you their eternal fate would have been sealed ............by me. >>
I guess my point would be would that affect you that someone died from your gunshot? I agree that you should be justified in doing so, but some people are missing my point there. Selectively missing my point.
My second point would be that we can have all kinds of opinions including that he was possible justified and I agree that he was probably justified, but the law may have a different interpretation.
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<< <i>Imho it is always better if possible to let the police take care of things so it does not become personal with someone or a gang looking for revenge against an individual. >>
That would be all well and good, but if by "police take care of things" you mean "police protect you against burglars", you might want to be aware the police are not obligated to do so, and have no responsibility for the results if they don't.
<< <i>
<< <i>I say again - <When a burglar takes the risk of robbing someone or someplace, he automatically has decided to put his life in peril. It is his actions, and his actions, alone that have sealed his eternal fate>.Text I, too, am a church goer, but there may come a time when you have to do the above. My home was burglarized many years ago. To this day, it has left an indelible mark on my psychic. Oh by the way, the three were caught two weeks later. And yes, I did take pleasure in seeing them go to jail and make restitution. However, if I had been at home the day of the burglary, I can assure you their eternal fate would have been sealed ............by me. >>
I guess my point would be would that affect you that someone died from your gunshot? I agree that you should be justified in doing so, but some people are missing my point there. Selectively missing my point.
My second point would be that we can have all kinds of opinions including that he was possible justified and I agree that he was probably justified, but the law may have a different interpretation. >>
Well, I think that most people would feel badly about killing someone even if its justified. As a crook you have to accept that there is some risk in your actions; sometimes considerable risk. If the robbers have weapons, its reasonable to assume that they intend to use them. That works both ways.
sad circumstance. The would be thief does not get to pass on his genes to the next generation
of thieves. The Darwin theory worked. Not necessarily does the strongest always survive, some-
times it's the smartest. Good riddance!
bob
<< <i>
Well, I think that most people would feel badly about killing someone even if its justified. As a crook you have to accept that there is some risk in your actions; sometimes considerable risk. If the robbers have weapons, its reasonable to assume that they intend to use them. That works both ways. >>
I agree 100%. If my life or family were in harm I would do what it takes to protect myself of them, but it would suck after that. His life is going to be turbulent the next several months.
Once again folks, don't get me wrong, if he were prosecuted I would vote to aquit him too.
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<< <i>
<< <i>Imho it is always better if possible to let the police take care of things so it does not become personal with someone or a gang looking for revenge against an individual. >>
That would be all well and good, but if by "police take care of things" you mean "police protect you against burglars", you might want to be aware the police are not obligated to do so, and have no responsibility for the results if they don't. >>
I believe that the thinking is that the police should arrive in time to end it peacefully. Yah, you betcha. Wishful thinking at best.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Imho it is always better if possible to let the police take care of things so it does not become personal with someone or a gang looking for revenge against an individual. >>
That would be all well and good, but if by "police take care of things" you mean "police protect you against burglars", you might want to be aware the police are not obligated to do so, and have no responsibility for the results if they don't. >>
I believe that the thinking is that the police should arrive in time to end it peacefully. Yah, you betcha. Wishful thinking at best. >>
True if you have to wait on the police the only thing the police would do is show up to draw a chalk outline of your body.
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<< <i>
<< <i>
Well, I think that most people would feel badly about killing someone even if its justified. As a crook you have to accept that there is some risk in your actions; sometimes considerable risk. If the robbers have weapons, its reasonable to assume that they intend to use them. That works both ways. >>
I agree 100%. If my life or family were in harm I would do what it takes to protect myself of them, but it would suck after that. His life is going to be turbulent the next several months.
Once again folks, don't get me wrong, if he were prosecuted I would vote to aquit him too. >>
Any DA that prosecutes this ought to have his head examined.
likely die. no horse, no supplies, and a 100 miles from the nearest help.
i see no reason why a person should allow their things to be stolen..
their hard work and property.. and allow the cops to attempt to get
it back when they have a chance to stop it and the culprits.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
Well, I think that most people would feel badly about killing someone even if its justified. As a crook you have to accept that there is some risk in your actions; sometimes considerable risk. If the robbers have weapons, its reasonable to assume that they intend to use them. That works both ways. >>
I agree 100%. If my life or family were in harm I would do what it takes to protect myself of them, but it would suck after that. His life is going to be turbulent the next several months.
Once again folks, don't get me wrong, if he were prosecuted I would vote to aquit him too. >>
Any DA that prosecutes this ought to have his head examined. >>
Only if he is running for Mayor or any other office.. This is typically where you get your water walkers.. It's a sad day for both parties involved..
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Imho it is always better if possible to let the police take care of things so it does not become personal with someone or a gang looking for revenge against an individual. >>
That would be all well and good, but if by "police take care of things" you mean "police protect you against burglars", you might want to be aware the police are not obligated to do so, and have no responsibility for the results if they don't. >>
I believe that the thinking is that the police should arrive in time to end it peacefully. Yah, you betcha. Wishful thinking at best. >>
I will just say again inho its not smart to make a situation like that personal whenever possible.
If its not possible then do what you have to.
I have found from my own personal experience that the sound a gun makes is usually enough to make a intruder turn tail and run.
<< <i><<<The business owner shouldn't be the one being forced to take a chance on the robber NOT being armed. The robber should be the one taking the chance of potentially being killed for breaking into someone's shop.>>>
Bingo!!!!
You're right PG and so is Texas. A man needs to protect his family, life, and possessions. Let Pilosi and her ilk cry for the criminal thugs that would stomp all over your rights as a human being. >>
CRIMINALS SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY RIGHTS!!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>I just hope for the store owners sake that the one that was killed was not shot in the back. >>
Not really specified....
Deputies arrived and found an unidentified Hispanic male lying on the ground and suffering from a gunshot wound to his upper body >>
I don't know if they were illegal aliens,but if so they should not have any rights in this country.
edited 4 spelling.
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At the risk of sounding self righteous, I personally have seen too many brave men die of GSW's and soon we have a weekend coming up in which we honor all of these men. I won't grieve for a criminal that preys on others to survive. If that seems callous, I'm sorry but I just don't have room in my heart to feel bad for people which die in an ignoble act when so many others gave their lives for higher ideals.
John
<< <i>found an image with some better color >>
I do believe you are trying to change the subject.
<< <i>CRIMINALS SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY RIGHTS!!!! >>
The thing is, they're not criminals until they are convicted in a court of law in a fair trial. I hope you're not advocating a change to "innocent until proven guilty." That has served us well for some 220 years at least.
Having said that, if someone has a reasonable fear that their safety is in danger if they don't pull the trigger, then the shooting is probably justified.
<< <i>
<< <i>found an image with some better color >>
I do believe you are trying to change the subject.
All I can do is try.....
<< <i>
<< <i>CRIMINALS SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY RIGHTS!!!! >>
The thing is, they're not criminals until they are convicted in a court of law in a fair trial. I hope you're not advocating a change to "innocent until proven guilty." That has served us well for some 220 years at least.
Having said that, if someone has a reasonable fear that their safety is in danger if they don't pull the trigger, then the shooting is probably justified. >>
A person that is committing a crime is a criminal.I'm sure we'll find out that this person was an upstanding citizen that had never caused any trouble before.NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm not advocating anything,just saying that someone that is in the middle of committing a felony should not have any rights.Should the shop owner have waited until he knew the would be robbers were going to try to kill him to try to protect himself the news story might have read "Coin shop owner killed during robbery."
I know it's a tough question, but I'm curious.
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1)Police asking for public's help in finding ski mask robbers - 1/03 ...Jan 3, 2009 ... Police think the robbers gain access into homes through open garage doors.
2)Robber in black ski mask took cash from Gardiner Savings Bank ...A white man wearing a black ski mask and dark coat passed a bank teller a ... Wednesday's robbery in Hallowell comes about a month after a robbery at the ...
3)Joker Ski Masks <strike>Perfect For Armed Robbery</strike ...Joker Ski Masks Perfect For Armed Robbery. ... This is a $17 ski mask from Amazon that makes you look like the Joker from The Dark Knight. ...
4)Police investigating armed robbery reported Sunday morning ...May 10, 2009 ... During the robbery, he was wearing a black ski mask, a light-colored long-sleeve shirt, and light-colored long pants, according to Lawrence ...
5)2 masked men flee with $26000 in robbery of bank in Everett - The ...Joel David Martin of Eugene was booked into the Lane County...robbery are described as a rifle with an attached sling, a dark ski mask, a dark top, ...
6)Desoto Times Tribune > News > Local > Robbery suspect wore ski maskApr 16, 2009 ... Robbery suspect wore ski mask ... tall and weighing between 150 to 180 pounds with medium build - put on a black ski mask as he entered the ...
7)Robbery Suspect SurrendersMay 8, 2009 ... A man who wore a tan ski mask while robbing an Omaha gas station, has stepped forward to take responsibility for the crime. ...
8)CRIME Blog | The Dallas Morning NewsNo, we mention this robbery because the FBI provided some bonus photos. ... the robbers outside the bank before they put their ski masks on ...
9)Man with sword, dressed as ninja attempts Weymouth robbery ...Apr 21, 2009 ... Man with sword, dressed as ninja attempts Weymouth robbery ... The man, wearing a ski mask and a sword in a sheath on his belt, ...
....
So, I'm kind of thinking a precedence is set for determining "criminal".
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<< <i>A person that is committing a crime is a criminal.I'm sure we'll find out that this person was an upstanding citizen that had never caused any trouble before.NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>
In a nation of laws, a person isn't a criminal until he has been convicted in a fair trial.
Again, just in case it wasn't clear the last time I said it: IF the shop owner did indeed see these perps get inside the store and charge him, he had EVERY reason to plug the perps full of holes and I doubt there's a jury out there (even in CA) that would convict him.
<< <i>
<< <i>CRIMINALS SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY RIGHTS!!!! >>
The thing is, they're not criminals until they are convicted in a court of law in a fair trial. I hope you're not advocating a change to "innocent until proven guilty." That has served us well for some 220 years at least.
>>
Yeah, it's served us so well, huh? People can be viewed robbing others, shooting others, killing others, then, they go before a judge/jury and declare themselves as "not quilty" and you are saying they are innocent until they are proven guilty, right?
Well, before I agree/disagree with you, define "proven guilty". If no one views them, then I agree that evidence is needed. If they are viewed in the act of the crime, then, to me, it should be considered proven at that stage. To do less is to cheapen the people who abide by the laws and those victimized by the criminals.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
This isn't rocket science, people.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
To be more scientific.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Trespassing ....
This can get really deep. Life is short. Love your neighbor.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
low lifes.
EDITED TO ADD: I'll bet the one found in the parking lot won't be breaking in to anyone elses porperty..
<< <i>The thing is, they're not criminals until they are convicted in a court of law in a fair trial. >>
Just as long as "fair" does not get drawn out to "ridiculous" and I agree that those convicted of felonous crimes should only have "human rights" afforded them which does not include cable TV and telephone priviliges. It should include educational pursuits and not a whole lot more.
As for the "proven guilty", I think this sucker, coupled with certain "rights", has been drawn out to the breaking point in today's society.
Neither of these fellows had any business hanging around a Coin and Jewelry Shop at 4:00 am in the morning wearing ski masks.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>If the suspect was from Illinois he will still be able to vote. >>
He's in California so he is eligible for the following:
Free Medical services
Free Higher Education
Disability
The right to vote multiple times
Rob
"Those guys weren't Fathers they were...Mothers."
This guy ain't going trick or treating. Terrorists wear ski masks.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
What a read. Here's my "2 cents" on this...
1. Good for the shop owner. It's guys like this that show the rest of us how we need to stand up against the criminal element in this country, because politicians and the courts sure won't.
2. I hear comments (devil's advocate, or otherwise I'm not concerned) about what was the owner doing there, was he lying in wait, and why doesn't he move his store. The way I see it, IT'S HIS STORE and he has a right to be there. As far a why has he not moved, why should he? Why don't trash stop robbing? Why is it there are some people seem to always want to go back to blaming the victim? The man's rights, property and safety were CLEARLY in danger. If they weren't the 2 "gentlemen" wouldn't find it necessary to hide their faces and use pry bars at 4 in the AM.
3. As far as the folks concerned about the mental, emotional and moral implications to killing an EVILDOER, let me say this...Taking a scumbags life may bother you (and I applaud you for your concern - you have my respect), let a person(s) break into my alarmed and armed home while myself and my family are here. I'd be more than happy to spread their brains on my wall in front of their mothers and then go soundly back to sleep.
Bottom line in my mind....if you want to be safe in this world you can't depend on Obama to do it. If you want to be a criminal and try to take whats not yours, better be ready to face what you have coming.
Thanks for reading.
<< <i>
<< <i>Wow.
What a read. Here's my "2 cents" on this...
1. Good for the shop owner. It's guys like this that show the rest of us how we need to stand up against the criminal element in this country, because politicians and the courts sure won't.
2. I hear comments (devil's advocate, or otherwise I'm not concerned) about what was the owner doing there, was he lying in wait, and why doesn't he move his store. The way I see it, IT'S HIS STORE and he has a right to be there. As far a why has he not moved, why should he? Why don't trash stop robbing? Why is it there are some people seem to always want to go back to blaming the victim? The man's rights, property and safety were CLEARLY in danger. If they weren't the 2 "gentlemen" wouldn't find it necessary to hide their faces and use pry bars at 4 in the AM.
3. As far as the folks concerned about the mental, emotional and moral implications to killing an EVILDOER, let me say this...Taking a scumbags life may bother you (and I applaud you for your concern - you have my respect), let a person(s) break into my alarmed and armed home while myself and my family are here. I'd be more than happy to spread their brains on my wall in front of their mothers and then go soundly back to sleep.
Bottom line in my mind....if you want to be safe in this world you can't depend on Obama to do it. If you want to be a criminal and try to take whats not yours, better be ready to face what you have coming.
Thanks for reading.
To both of you ... I couldn't have said it better myself. Make that 2 votes!
Someone may have commited murder, it's the surviving crook if he gets convicted of a felony for the initial crime.
felony murder rule
<< <i>Wow.
What a read.
As far as the folks concerned about the mental, emotional and moral implications to killing an EVILDOER, let me say this...Taking a scumbags life may bother you (and I applaud you for your concern - you have my respect), let a person(s) break into my alarmed and armed home while myself and my family are here. I'd be more than happy to spread their brains on my wall in front of their mothers and then go soundly back to sleep.
If you want to be a criminal and try to take whats not yours, better be ready to face what you have coming.
Thanks for reading.
I like your style.. It is amazing that a newbie can voice his opinion like this and not be called a low life piece of Trailer trash hick with a sick mind and a gun like I was in a thread on Guns and crimes I posted months ago and not be addressed in a cruel way of his thinking.. I would love to see the Rats out their that are biting their tounges right now and am waiting to read your view on his comment..
Are you ready Rat boys.. Cheese, cheese, daddy has some cheese.. Come out, come out where ever you are..
BTW: Welcome to the boards..
<< <i>.........unfortunate event for all parties. i'm hoping the shop owner isn't raked across the coals for this. we all know where this usually goes, unfortunately. the law breakers are coddled while the property owners are left to twist in the wind.
This seldom happens in real life, but this angle is played up on conservative talk radio and cable TV.
In California, robbery is a life threatening crime and the penal code permits use of deadly force.
<< <i>
<< <i>CRIMINALS SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY RIGHTS!!!! >>
The thing is, they're not criminals until they are convicted in a court of law in a fair trial. I hope you're not advocating a change to "innocent until proven guilty." >>
They are criminals the second they commit a crime and it's "presumed innocent until proved guilty".
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>CRIMINALS SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY RIGHTS!!!! >>
The thing is, they're not criminals until they are convicted in a court of law in a fair trial. I hope you're not advocating a change to "innocent until proven guilty." >>
They are criminals the second they commit a crime and it's "presumed innocent until proved guilty". >>
Exactly.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>CRIMINALS SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY RIGHTS!!!! >>
If this was the case there would be no more coin shows..
I have been robbed by many Coin dealers in the past and they still have rights... So I am very.
<< <i> I'd be more than happy to spread their brains on my wall in front of their mothers and then go soundly back to sleep.
>>
No you wouldn't. No human being could easily forget having to do that. While I agree that you would be justified the sight of gruesome death would affect anyone. I've worked in the prison system for 18+ years with 6 of those years at the largest max prison in Illinois. I've been up close and seen a few murder scenes. I was the first person on the scene of one inmate who had been stabbed to death and laying in a pool of blood. He was a POS himself and should have got the death penalty for his crime, but it's still disturbing to see it. I worked with a couple guards at that prison who had to make the decision to shoot and kill inmates who were stabbing other inmates. It brands in their conscience and the first thing that happens was they didn't want to set foot in that place for weeks. They did their job admirally and made the right decision in both instances, but the fact is is hung with them for years.
If I were in that situation you speak of I would definitely be proud that I protected my family, but would bother me that I had to kill to do so.
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"No you wouldn't. No human being could easily forget having to do that."
Evidently you haven't met some of the human beings I have met. There are various scenarios that provide sound sleep after the 'bang'.