Shop owner kills robber: Updated
blu62vette
Posts: 11,933 ✭✭✭✭✭
Update: The Robbers had already pried the door off and were well inside the shop when shooting occurred. Shop owner is very shaken up. More info to follow....
This is my local B and M.....been going to him for 20 years...
CARMICHAEL, Calif. -- A shop owner allegedly shot and killed a burglary suspect at a Carmichael shopping center early Monday, the Sacramento County Sheriff's Department said.
Sharokina Shams/KCRA
A burglary suspect was shot and killed Monday in Carmichael. View More Images
Officials said a man who runs a coin and jewelry shop at Marconi and Walnut avenues opened fire on two alleged burglars shortly after 4 a.m., sheriff's Sgt. Tim Curran said.
One of the burglary suspects was hit and died in the parking lot. The other suspect got away but was found nearby and detained by investigators, Curran added.
Authorities said the shop was also burglarized on April 29.
Curran said the 65-year-old shop owner, who was not identified, was inside the store when he noticed two people wearing black ski masks trying to break in.
The shop owner called 911 for help. While the owner was on the phone, a dispatcher could hear several shots being fired, Curran said.
The victim's body was found about 50 feet from the front of the store. The shop owner told a 911 dispatcher that he could see the second burglary suspect trying to help his injured accomplice, but the second suspect eventually fled.
Deputies arrived to find the Latino victim lying in the parking lot. The suspect, who had at least one gunshot wound to the upper body, was pronounced dead at the scene.
At 5:18 a.m., deputies searching the area detained a 22-year-old Latino man at the corner of Marconi Avenue and Eastern Avenue. He was interviewed by detectives to determine what, if any, involvement he had in the burglary attempt, Curran said.
Curran added it was unclear if the shop owner will face any charges. The case will be forwarded to the district attorney's office for review.
Link
This is my local B and M.....been going to him for 20 years...
CARMICHAEL, Calif. -- A shop owner allegedly shot and killed a burglary suspect at a Carmichael shopping center early Monday, the Sacramento County Sheriff's Department said.
Sharokina Shams/KCRA
A burglary suspect was shot and killed Monday in Carmichael. View More Images
Officials said a man who runs a coin and jewelry shop at Marconi and Walnut avenues opened fire on two alleged burglars shortly after 4 a.m., sheriff's Sgt. Tim Curran said.
One of the burglary suspects was hit and died in the parking lot. The other suspect got away but was found nearby and detained by investigators, Curran added.
Authorities said the shop was also burglarized on April 29.
Curran said the 65-year-old shop owner, who was not identified, was inside the store when he noticed two people wearing black ski masks trying to break in.
The shop owner called 911 for help. While the owner was on the phone, a dispatcher could hear several shots being fired, Curran said.
The victim's body was found about 50 feet from the front of the store. The shop owner told a 911 dispatcher that he could see the second burglary suspect trying to help his injured accomplice, but the second suspect eventually fled.
Deputies arrived to find the Latino victim lying in the parking lot. The suspect, who had at least one gunshot wound to the upper body, was pronounced dead at the scene.
At 5:18 a.m., deputies searching the area detained a 22-year-old Latino man at the corner of Marconi Avenue and Eastern Avenue. He was interviewed by detectives to determine what, if any, involvement he had in the burglary attempt, Curran said.
Curran added it was unclear if the shop owner will face any charges. The case will be forwarded to the district attorney's office for review.
Link
http://www.bluccphotos.com" target="new">BluCC Photos Shows for onsite imaging: Nov Baltimore, FUN, Long Beach http://www.facebook.com/bluccphotos" target="new">BluCC on Facebook
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
The Penny Lady®
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
The dealer may have a hard time proving that his life was in danger. From the sounds of this early report, it's not clear that the thieves actually made it into the store.
<< <i>It's nice to hear that the good guys can win... >>
It remains to be seen if the dealer will be prosecuted.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
<< <i>It remains to be seen if the dealer will be prosecuted. >>
I meant society as a whole..not this particular dealer, who, as others have said, might get into quite a bit of trouble for what he did if the suspects weren't actually in the store...
<< <i>Was this in a good area? >>
It is in a strip mall with surrounded by shady apartments. Has been his location for 25 years. He has had share of robberies in the past. Was robbed just a few weeks ago.
<< <i>From the article it is unclear that the robbers actually made it inside of the shop. If they were shot outside then the owner is in big trouble. >>
My guess is it was 2 amateurs who thought they could break in and had no chance against the security doors. When I stopped buy this morning I had to look from a ways away and I could not tell the shape of the shop. There were several workers there to install gates to block the access alley that runs behind the shop and adjacent stores.
<< <i>From the article it is unclear that the robbers actually made it inside of the shop. If they were shot outside then the owner is in big trouble. >>
There very well could be a legal question as to whether or not deadly force was warranted in this situation, especially under California law. If the would-be burglars hadn't yet broken in and they were unarmed, the dealer will be in need of a good lawyer -- sooner rather than later.
.........unfortunate event for all parties. i'm hoping the shop owner isn't raked across the coals for this. we all know where this usually goes, unfortunately. the law breakers are coddled while the property owners are left to twist in the wind.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
They (the burglers) were obviously trying to ruin a mans lively hood.
100% Positive BST transactions
<< <i>.........unfortunate event for all parties. i'm hoping the shop owner isn't raked across the coals for this. we all know where this usually goes, unfortunately. the law breakers are coddled while the property owners are left to twist in the wind.
Well, one law breaker is dead so I would hardly call that being coddled. IF the shop owner broke any laws then he is... well.. now a law breaker too. If you save him from the twisting wind then you're coddling him.
linky dinky doo
..........that's ALL i'm gonna say on the subject.
I'm glad the owner wasn't injured, but what in the world was he there at 4 A.M. for? Gettin' an early start I guess.
-wes
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>I'm glad the owner wasn't injured, but what in the world was he there at 4 A.M. for? Gettin' an early start I guess.
-wes >>
I was wondering that as well though it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. I just know that the shops around here tend to be closed Sunday and Monday and don't open 'til 10a.m. on every other day.
<< <i>I'm glad the owner wasn't injured, but what in the world was he there at 4 A.M. for? Gettin' an early start I guess. >>
That's one of the things the police investigators will have to sift through. That it happened at that hour suggests the intention was burglary, not armed robbery, and thus the would-be thieves may not have even been armed. That and the determination about whether they actually broke into the shop could establish whether or not deadly force was justifiable.
<< <i>It's a sad story.
The dealer may have a hard time proving that his life was in danger. From the sounds of this early report, it's not clear that the thieves actually made it into the store. >>
Glad I live where I do. A person has a right to defend themselves, and it would be up to the state to prove otherwise.
I often window shop at 4:00 am wearing a mask...
I'm sure a good defense lawyer can show that these two men were fine upstanding members of society.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
<< <i>From the article it is unclear that the robbers actually made it inside of the shop. If they were shot outside then the owner is in big trouble. >>
That statement is definitely true.
Regardless of the circumstantial and assumed evidence siding with the shop owner, you cannot shoot and kill a person while they're still outside of your property. "Shoot first and think later" doesn't work as a defense.
I know exactly who the coin dealer involved in this situation is. He is a tough guy and a Vietnam War veteran and if I recall his shop is heavily barricaded and secure with an alarm system and plenty of metal bars at the windows.
Here's the first question that came to mind...what was he doing at his shop at 4am?
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>"UNCLEAR" if any charges would be filed against the shop owner? >>
If he shot them before they broke in no matter what the bad intentions of the robbers the robbers are in the right.
<< <i>
<< <i>It's a sad story.
The dealer may have a hard time proving that his life was in danger. From the sounds of this early report, it's not clear that the thieves actually made it into the store. >>
Glad I live where I do. A person has a right to defend themselves, and it would be up to the state to prove otherwise. >>
Unless you know something that the rest of us don't- we have no idea if the shop owner was defending himself or not. Defending yourself is one thing, executing someone is another.
<< <i>The living suspect could be charged with homicide also, I believe--yes--no?---------------------------------BigE >>
No, if they had killed the owner, then yes.
<< <i>
<< <i>"UNCLEAR" if any charges would be filed against the shop owner? >>
If he shot them before they broke in no matter what the bad intentions of the robbers the robbers are in the right.
In Fla we are by law permited to take strong action, no matter where we "feel" threatened.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
But, there is still a lot of information here we don't know.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It's a sad story.
The dealer may have a hard time proving that his life was in danger. From the sounds of this early report, it's not clear that the thieves actually made it into the store. >>
Glad I live where I do. A person has a right to defend themselves, and it would be up to the state to prove otherwise. >>
Unless you know something that the rest of us don't- we have no idea if the shop owner was defending himself or not. Defending yourself is one thing, executing someone is another. >>
As I said, where I live, the state would have to prove that the owners well being was never threatened. Pretty hard to do if they were indeed breaking in.
The only sad thing is he didn't shoot them both.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>"UNCLEAR" if any charges would be filed against the shop owner? >>
If he shot them before they broke in no matter what the bad intentions of the robbers the robbers are in the right.
In Fla we are by law permited to take strong action, no matter where we "feel" threatened. >>
So in Florida you're allowed to kill somebody if you think they will be a threat? In that case I would assume that it's legal to randomly shoot people walking down the street because you feel uncomfortable around them.
Imagine walking up to a coin shop in the state. If you wear the wrong attire you can legally be sniped yards from the entrance just because you're wearing the wrong clothes and being perceived as a threat. That does not sound right to me.
Of course laws can be interpreted in multiple ways. As it was stated before, the details are sketchy and I doubt any of us are directly involved with this incident so let's not make assumptions or judgements until the facts are established.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
If he was robbed a couple weeks back it wouold not surprise me if he was sleeping there, I have heard him do that before.
Yes he has a well protected shop but thieves have used trucks before and pulled his door off in the middle of the night. I would think 2 theives would have a very very hard time getting in if the didnt have some major assistance tool wise.
Knowing the owner quitwe well personally (he was at my high school graduation parties and my gradparents funerals) I know he is having a tought time and feels awful. The last thing he would want is to kill someone. Just hope he is doing ok today, it has to be one of the worst days of his life.
<< <i>Was this in a good area? >>
I've been to this shop and the area is asimply a typical California residential area whith a shopping center.
I think I know the owner and hope he's holding up under the stress that something like this can produce. I expect so since he's a fairly level headed fellow.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Unless you know something that the rest of us don't- we have no idea if the shop owner was defending himself or not. Defending yourself is one thing, executing someone is another. >>
So, Robb, you're contending that the shop owner walked out of the front door of his shop and saw at least one Latino gentleman walking by and shot him unprovoked in the presence of another person (who got away)? Or do you think it's possible that the gentlemen were in fact trying to break in and successful or not, the dealer felt that his property and perhaps his life were threated and took action? Gee, which is more likely...
Here's the first question that came to mind...what was he doing at his shop at 4am? >>
...........why should it matter? it IS his shop!
I remember reading about some guy who broke into a family home when they were on vacation and got locked inside their garage for almost a week and had to eat dog food for a week and when found and arrested- succeded in suing the family for god knows what- and WON.
and a second story where a guy broke into someones house and when the man of the house saw the burgelar, shot him with his shotgun, but WAS LATER PLACED IN (he had a license, but the court said he wasnt in danger).
america sometimes has some strange laws....
<< <i>
<< <i>Unless you know something that the rest of us don't- we have no idea if the shop owner was defending himself or not. Defending yourself is one thing, executing someone is another. >>
So, Robb, you're contending that the shop owner walked out of the front door of his shop and saw at least one Latino gentleman walking by and shot him unprovoked in the presence of another person (who got away)? Or do you think it's possible that the gentlemen were in fact trying to break in and successful or not, the dealer felt that his property and perhaps his life were threated and took action? Gee, which is more likely...
You are conveniently mistaking threat to property as being threat to ones self. No, I'm not suggesting that the shop owner randomly shot some guy walking down the street and you know that. Bottom line at this point is that we do not know enough information and are dreaming up "what if" scenarios.
<< <i>
<< <i>The living suspect could be charged with homicide also, I believe--yes--no?---------------------------------BigE >>
No, if they had killed the owner, then yes. >>
That is incorrect. He can be charged with the death of his cohort (if the owner isn't)
<< <i>[
Here's the first question that came to mind...what was he doing at his shop at 4am? >>
...........why should it matter? it IS his shop! >>
I have known many shop owners to work into the wee hours of the morning doing paper work or prepping packages, sales etc... Being a shop owner is a lot of work.
<< <i>So, Robb, you're contending that the shop owner walked out of the front door of his shop and saw at least one Latino gentleman walking by and shot him unprovoked in the presence of another person (who got away)? Or do you think it's possible that the gentlemen were in fact trying to break in and successful or not, the dealer felt that his property and perhaps his life were threated and took action? Gee, which is more likely...
No one here is quarreling with the idea that there was clearly an intention to commit a burglary at minimum. It's fairly obvious that these two men were attempting to break into the shop and commit a crime.
The question, plain and simple, is whether or not deadly force was justifiable under California law given the circumstances (some of which we surely don't know).
In some states, this would have been clearly justifiable homicide based on laws concerning self-defense and a reasonable fear for one's own safety. In other states, it might not be enough to merely feel threatened or defend property to legally justify the use of deadly force.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>"UNCLEAR" if any charges would be filed against the shop owner? >>
If he shot them before they broke in no matter what the bad intentions of the robbers the robbers are in the right.
In Fla we are by law permited to take strong action, no matter where we "feel" threatened. >>
So in Florida you're allowed to kill somebody if you think they will be a threat? In that case I would assume that it's legal to randomly shoot people walking down the street because you feel uncomfortable around them.
Imagine walking up to a coin shop in the state. If you wear the wrong attire you can legally be sniped yards from the entrance just because you're wearing the wrong clothes and being perceived as a threat. That does not sound right to me. >>
It's sounds like a better place legally to be a shop owner in florida, at least for the owner. But if the shop had sufficient security measures and it was unlikely for someone to actually get in, i.e. the 2 burglars could have just been looking for open doors, then the shop owner should wait until there is an actual break in. i.e. shoot them as they enter.
<< <i>
<< <i>It remains to be seen if the dealer will be prosecuted. >>
I meant society as a whole..not this particular dealer, who, as others have said, might get into quite a bit of trouble for what he did if the suspects weren't actually in the store... >>
There is so much that the news does not know or cannot report.
What was said on the 911 call? This is probably key to the investigation.
Were the burglars armed?
Did the burglars fire the first shots?
Did the burglars actually suceed in prying the door open and were they entering the shop?
Were the lights on or off?
Specific details in an ongoing investigation are not always readily available to the press. Those details can make or break a case. As I stated, I known this fellow and he's not one to actually do something stupid. I also know that he works with folks at Folsom State Prison so he knows the criminal mind and knows how to talk with these folks.
I would be curious as to why he was in the shop at 4 in the morning though?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>No one here is quarreling with the idea that there was clearly an intention to commit a burglary at minimum. >>
Robb clearly is quarreling with that idea. "...executing someone is another." There was clearly no "execution" in this case. I'm not saying the dealer was right or wrong, but he sure as hell didn't "execute" anyone.
Edited to add: Others have brought up the question of why the dealer was at his shop at 4 a.m. That has absolutely no bearing on this case. It's his shop, he can be in it whenever he dang well chooses.
<< <i>
<< <i>No one here is quarreling with the idea that there was clearly an intention to commit a burglary at minimum. >>
Robb clearly is quarreling with that idea. "...executing someone is another." There was clearly no "execution" in this case. I'm not saying the dealer was right or wrong, but he sure as hell didn't "execute" anyone. >>
What the hell else would you call an unjustified murder?
Either the shop owner was within his rights and legally protected himself or he murdered someone.
<< <i>Either the shop owner was within his rights and legally protected himself or he murdered someone. >>
Thank you for making me laugh with your hippie bullcrap. I'm not sure I've laughed so hard all week. Hey, you might be right, the shop owner who's been in business for 2 and a half decades might have gotten bored and (since we all know the coin market is weak) decided to start murdering people. Hey, why not?
<< <i>
<< <i>Either the shop owner was within his rights and legally protected himself or he murdered someone. >>
Thank you for making me laugh with your hippie bullcrap. I'm not sure I've laughed so hard all week. Hey, you might be right, the shop owner who's been in business for 2 and a half decades might have gotten bored and (since we all know the coin market is weak) decided to start murdering people. Hey, why not? >>
You fail at reading comprehension.