If for some reason the County Prosecutor made an arrest of the shop owner, then if I were sitting on the Grand Jury, I'd shake his hand and "No Bill" the 65 year old store owner.
I feel sorry for the store owner and i hope i am never put into a situation like this to make a split second decision that can be viewed by other in 100 different angles.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
I feel sorry for the store owner and i hope i am never put into a situation like this to make a split second decision that can be viewed by other in 100 different angles. >>
............so your vote goes to.................?
"government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
Opinions, opinions..We should let the proper officials carry out the investigation. People are dying every few minutes in the U.S.today as well as Cops, bank employees and others.
All I know is this.. One man is dead.. I owner has lost many dollars as a tax payer that has had a business for many years.. If their was a intent to rob or conspiracy to rob, and due to the prelimbs I have read, it was a robbery.. The owner was correct in doing what he did.. He protected his life first and then his property..
As I have gotten into this ass biting crap before with a few people that live in my state about guns and defending their well being and still don't understand what your rights are. I will explain the law to you again..
Bill Of rights are as follows... Any human being has the right to bear arms as in (GUNS,Knives,Baseball Bats, C4) to protect themselves from bodily harm. Or, if they are threaten and can't defend themselves according to the welfare of their ability, they are protected with special consideration and can defend themselves at all means.. *Thus this man is older, has been robbed and is probably not insurable*.
ROBBERY, in any attempt is a first degree felony and must be address as the attempt on ones life.
Let's sum up the happenings that morning.. First 4am.. Two men in Ski Masks.. The owner called for help.. He call 911.. The owner then knew his life, not his property was in danger, so he took the proper steps in defending his life.. Ok another issue everyone is talking about, 50 feet, 10 feet or no feet.. The robbery was taking place, it was dark and the man feared for his life.. Plain and simple..
Don't get mad at me, get mad at your local and federal govt for letting this f-ing scum live in your area.. Lawyers are bought and judges are bought..
Another thing that pisses me off about not enough money to build jails.. Lude statement.. Just a few weeks ago in New York someone in Washington Dc can pay 300 million dollars for a photo op with two F-14s and one of the Presidents plane for a damn history layout. And yesterday in my area at Andrews Air Force base the so called *Air Show*..How much money do you think it costs to plan it and make it happen? Tax dollars are wasted in our ecomony each day and we have to worry about some scum taking more money from us. The Bill Of Rights my friend.. George
<< <i>"UNCLEAR" if any charges would be filed against the shop owner? >>
If he shot them before they broke in no matter what the bad intentions of the robbers the robbers are in the right. >>
In Fla we are by law permited to take strong action, no matter where we "feel" threatened. >>
I hope you simply oversimplified Florida's self defense law, but in the event you didn't, then you need to read Florida laws a bit more closely, Tom, for not only do you need to be in a place that you have the right to be, but you must also reasonably believe you are preventing the commission of a forcible felony. Said a bit differently, where you are absolutely does make a difference, as does the actions of the other party. Shoot someone while trespassing, you'll likely go to jail. Shoot someone for committing a misdemeanor and/or an "un-forceful" felony, you'll likely go to jail. Respectfully.....Mike
[edited to add the Florida Statute:
Chapter 776 JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE 776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.--
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony. ]
Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
<< <i>Let's sum up the happenings that morning.. First 4am.. Two men in Ski Masks.. The owner called for help.. He call 911.. The owner then knew his life, not his property was in danger, so he took the proper steps in defending his life.. Ok another issue everyone is talking about, 50 feet, 10 feet or no feet.. The robbery was taking place, it was dark and the man feared for his life.. Plain and simple..
>>
I agree with all of that except for the part where he feared for his life. Had he yelled out "I am calling the police" the robbers would have ran ASAP. I think he instead called 911 first and wanted them caught, which is not fearing for you life.
So I will be surprised if he ever warned the robbers, they may have broke the window and that is when the lead flew. Anyway I am not saying what he did was wrong, only that what he did was protect his property IMO.
BTW there are probably already lawyers trying to find the family of the dead guy to file civil charges, that is how bad California has become. I am not sure if anyone here heard about the Tiger that killed the kid at the SF Zoo but it is kind of like this. You can harass, torment or steal from someone or an animal but when they fight back the owners end up in court.
<< <i>Let's sum up the happenings that morning.. >>
We can't, yet. >>
That didn't stop the OP from "knowing" that "the owner was correct in doing what he did." Then again, factual writing isn't his strong suit. ...Mike >>
Where did I say that and where have I ever had a problem with my facts here?
<< <i>Let's sum up the happenings that morning.. First 4am.. Two men in Ski Masks.. The owner called for help.. He call 911.. The owner then knew his life, not his property was in danger, so he took the proper steps in defending his life.. Ok another issue everyone is talking about, 50 feet, 10 feet or no feet.. The robbery was taking place, it was dark and the man feared for his life.. Plain and simple..
>>
I agree with all of that except for the part where he feared for his life. Had he yelled out "I am calling the police" the robbers would have ran ASAP. I think he instead called 911 first and wanted them caught, which is not fearing for you life.
So I will be surprised if he ever warned the robbers, they may have broke the window and that is when the lead flew. Anyway I am not saying what he did was wrong, only that what he did was protect his property IMO. >>
Maybe if he stupidly yelled out "I am calling the police" he would have been shot dead. There's a good reason for shoot first and ask questions later starting with the fact he's an old man who's alone facing two young crooks.
<< <i>Let's sum up the happenings that morning.. >>
We can't, yet. >>
That didn't stop the OP from "knowing" that "the owner was correct in doing what he did." Then again, factual writing isn't his strong suit. ...Mike >>
Where did I say that and where have I ever had a problem with my facts here? >>
<< <i>Let's sum up the happenings that morning.. First 4am.. Two men in Ski Masks.. The owner called for help.. He call 911.. The owner then knew his life, not his property was in danger, so he took the proper steps in defending his life.. Ok another issue everyone is talking about, 50 feet, 10 feet or no feet.. The robbery was taking place, it was dark and the man feared for his life.. Plain and simple..
>>
I agree with all of that except for the part where he feared for his life. Had he yelled out "I am calling the police" the robbers would have ran ASAP. I think he instead called 911 first and wanted them caught, which is not fearing for you life.
So I will be surprised if he ever warned the robbers, they may have broke the window and that is when the lead flew. Anyway I am not saying what he did was wrong, only that what he did was protect his property IMO. >>
Maybe if he stupidly yelled out "I am calling the police" he would have been shot dead. There's a good reason for shoot first and ask questions later starting with the fact he's an old man who's alone facing two young crooks. >>
I doubt he has any chance of being prosecuted with the budget crisis in California. If anything they will be releasing many more crooks out into the communities to save money.
However I think the 911 call may be what they use to determine what happened. If he sounds scared then he is OK, just remember when you call 911 to say you are afraid for your life.
Was the previous robbery during business hours or after?
I'm having a hard time understanding why this "old man" who had previously been robbed a week or two ago and is in a line of business that is regularly targeted by thieves would be alone in his business at 4 in the morning.
I'm having a hard time understanding why this "old man" who had previously been robbed a week or two ago and is in a line of business that is regularly targeted by thieves would be alone in his business at 4 in the morning
Sort of like the woman who goes out drinking alone....she sort of deserves trouble, right?
Dave
Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
<< <i>I'm having a hard time understanding why this "old man" who had previously been robbed a week or two ago and is in a line of business that is regularly targeted by thieves would be alone in his business at 4 in the morning. >>
Maybe he was taking responsibility for protecting his property. The police have no legal obligation to provide protection, so if he doesn't do it, who will?
<< <i>I'm having a hard time understanding why this "old man" who had previously been robbed a week or two ago and is in a line of business that is regularly targeted by thieves would be alone in his business at 4 in the morning
Sort of like the woman you goes out drinking alone....she sort of deserves trouble, right?
Dave >>
No, not at all. I'm just wondering if the shop owner was having a hard time separating himself from his business.
<< <i>I'm having a hard time understanding why this "old man" who had previously been robbed a week or two ago and is in a line of business that is regularly targeted by thieves would be alone in his business at 4 in the morning. >>
Maybe he was taking responsibility for protecting his property. The police have no legal obligation to provide protection, so if he doesn't do it, who will? >>
What I am wondering is at what point do you as a person separate yourself from your business? The owner at least had barred windows and an alarm system. I assume that he is insured and that he was keeping high dollar items off-site. He had other options such as a paid security patrol, video surveillance, etc. IF he was camping his store, then that to me seems to be a bit much. I personally wouldn't do it but that doesn't mean that he doesn't have the right to so long as he is within the law. Again, going solely on dreamed up scenarios, there are two arguments for shooting the guy. 1. Self defense. 2. Protecting personal property. IF the owner was never in harms way then that rules out 1 and leaves 2. What I wonder is if the protecting personal property extends to his business. There is a big difference in shooting a guy who broke into your home and one who broke into your business.
...........please don't suggest that we start giving out 'time-outs'
"government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
Who makes that decision, Robb? IMHO, if I'm in my store when it's closed and I see two guys trying, attempting, wishing WHATEVER, to break in, I, sir, am in harm's way big time. Are they armed? I don't know or care. Do they intend to hurt me? I don't know or care. I am in harm's way, period.
Positive BST transactions with: too many names to list! 36 at last count.
<< <i>Let's sum up the happenings that morning.. >>
We can't, yet. >>
That didn't stop the OP from "knowing" that "the owner was correct in doing what he did." Then again, factual writing isn't his strong suit. ...Mike >>
Blucc was just stating what was in the news release. So why are you so quick to be snyde, especially unprovoked? Seems like you could use some lessons in playing nice.
"government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
.............and what a wonderful world this would be.........................................
"government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
When I read about things like this, I often go back to when I was 19 years old and was a delivery driver for Pizza Hut... one night, two distinguished gentleman ran up to me and said "you betta gimme yo money!" (and he was simultaneously acting like he had a weapon in his pocket and was motioning like he was going to pull it out, but never did)... Anyway, my wallet was kept in the same pocket as a loaded .38; I could have very easily smoked the both of them, but didn't. I often wonder how my life would have turned out differently had I taken them out that night.
<< <i>Let's sum up the happenings that morning.. >>
We can't, yet. >>
That didn't stop the OP from "knowing" that "the owner was correct in doing what he did." Then again, factual writing isn't his strong suit. ...Mike >>
Where did I say that and where have I ever had a problem with my facts here? >>
I think he meant YaHa. >>
Robb, I meant Hypo facts so far.. I will say this.. We will never know the true story of what happened that morning.. Basically we have a robbery and dead man and a coin shop owner that is worried that his shop will be closed now for good. God knows what he will go through the rest of his life. Another American dream spoiled again by some losers that were created during a time of lust..
And my factual writing needs not to be considered in my theory.. The law, is the law and maybe all of the smart ones should read it, instead of dictating it the way you vision.. You can't do that..
I stopped by this store last year. They were too busy with people selling gold that they gave very little time to me looking at coins. I saw that the owner had a revolver sitting in the open safe, also saw some very suspisious gang looking punks hanging around in the parking lot. There was even one guy that came in with a very fake (like photo copied) $100 bill and asked the owner if it was real or fake, that someone was passing it off to him as real.
That said, I personally think that we should be able to protect life AND property from criminals, deadly force included. Unfortunately some state laws do not allow the use of deadly force for the protection of property, only life. I would hope that he was justified in his shooting. If he had two people breaking in, he calls 911 but they are too slow, the burglars gain entry and pose a perceived threat of harm, then he should be fine. If they opened the door and he just shot them, there will be problems.
I feel for the shop owner being stuck in a gut wrenching decision, but I feel for the person who died. It is sad to think his eternal fate is forever sealed and may have not been packing and may have had no intentions of harming anyone. No one deserves the death penalty for burglary, but on the other hand other would be robbers may be less determined to rob the guy. All I know is if you keep getting robbed and you're in a bad part of town then why not move the shop?
<< <i>When I read about things like this, I often go back to when I was 19 years old and was a delivery driver for Pizza Hut... one night, two distinguished gentleman ran up to me and said "you betta gimme yo money!" (and he was simultaneously acting like he had a weapon in his pocket and was motioning like he was going to pull it out, but never did)... Anyway, my wallet was kept in the same pocket as a loaded .38; I could have very easily smoked the both of them, but didn't. I often wonder how my life would have turned out differently had I taken them out that night. >>
..........makes me wonder how many more people got robbed or worse SINCE your encounter.
"government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
Both would be robbers were in the store, charging the owner when they were shot. >>
If this is the facts, then the owner should be fine. If I have a gun and you still advance on me, you must have intentions of disarming and killing me, I will shoot you.
The article linked in the very first post has been updated. From it, "Authorities said Dunbar was at the store early Monday to look on the Web to set his trading prices for the day."
Does anyone know if that outfit Cash4Gold was in the area buying Silver/Gold where this robbery happened or another county near the Robbery/shooting?
The reason I ask, down here in my county that outfit has taken up shop in the Holiday Inn for the past 6 weekends.. I went in there to ask what price do they pay on 14k,18k,22k and 24kt Gold and the one customer service rep told me that it varies? Not good english either
While in line, down the line a couple of young kids around 25/30 were handing over Gold coins and thick gold chains.. The chains looked like that herringbone crap I had 25 years ago in 18k Gold.. No questions were asked.. So, I am wondering the theory of all of these recent robbery in my area also..
A young man will never see the sunrise again. An old man will go to bed with a heavy heart forever more.
Nobody wants to take a life and the command is that we shouldn't. This is a No-Win situation and the juducial system should close the books on this case before it is even a case. It's finished. Business as usual.
and may have had no intentions of harming anyone I'm sorry, but when you steal my stuff you have harmed me. If he had no harm in is heart, he would have visited when the store was open.
<< <i>and may have had no intentions of harming anyone I'm sorry, but when you steal my stuff you have harmed me. If he had no harm in is heart, he would have visited when the store was open. >>
Stealing from you is not is justification to shoot someone. Fearing for your safety is
<< <i>Let's sum up the happenings that morning.. >>
We can't, yet. >>
That didn't stop the OP from "knowing" that "the owner was correct in doing what he did." Then again, factual writing isn't his strong suit. ...Mike >>
Where did I say that and where have I ever had a problem with my facts here? >>
Halfstrike was correct. My comment was not directed at you, but rather the one who feels the need to explain the law to the rest of us while doing a poor job of it to boot....Mike
Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
Comments
<< <i>I just hope for the store owners sake that the one that was killed was not shot in the back. >>
Not really specified....
Deputies arrived and found an unidentified Hispanic male lying on the ground and suffering from a gunshot wound to his upper body
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
I feel sorry for the store owner and i hope i am never put into a situation like this to make a split second decision that can be viewed by other in 100 different angles.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>Some of you guys think way to much.
I feel sorry for the store owner and i hope i am never put into a situation like this to make a split second decision that can be viewed by other in 100 different angles. >>
............so your vote goes to.................?
All I know is this.. One man is dead.. I owner has lost many dollars as a tax payer that has had a business for many years.. If their was a intent to rob or conspiracy to rob, and due to the prelimbs I have read, it was a robbery.. The owner was correct in doing what he did.. He protected his life first and then his property..
As I have gotten into this ass biting crap before with a few people that live in my state about guns and defending their well being and still don't understand what your rights are. I will explain the law to you again..
Bill Of rights are as follows... Any human being has the right to bear arms as in (GUNS,Knives,Baseball Bats, C4) to protect themselves from bodily harm. Or, if they are threaten and can't defend themselves according to the welfare of their ability, they are protected with special consideration and can defend themselves at all means.. *Thus this man is older, has been robbed and is probably not insurable*.
ROBBERY, in any attempt is a first degree felony and must be address as the attempt on ones life.
Let's sum up the happenings that morning.. First 4am.. Two men in Ski Masks.. The owner called for help.. He call 911.. The owner then knew his life, not his property was in danger, so he took the proper steps in defending his life.. Ok another issue everyone is talking about, 50 feet, 10 feet or no feet.. The robbery was taking place, it was dark and the man feared for his life.. Plain and simple..
Don't get mad at me, get mad at your local and federal govt for letting this f-ing scum live in your area.. Lawyers are bought and judges are bought..
Another thing that pisses me off about not enough money to build jails.. Lude statement.. Just a few weeks ago in New York someone in Washington Dc can pay 300 million dollars for a photo op with two F-14s and one of the Presidents plane for a damn history layout. And yesterday in my area at Andrews Air Force base the so called *Air Show*..How much money do you think it costs to plan it and make it happen? Tax dollars are wasted in our ecomony each day and we have to worry about some scum taking more money from us. The Bill Of Rights my friend.. George
<< <i>Let's sum up the happenings that morning.. >>
We can't, yet.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>"UNCLEAR" if any charges would be filed against the shop owner? >>
If he shot them before they broke in no matter what the bad intentions of the robbers the robbers are in the right.
In Fla we are by law permited to take strong action, no matter where we "feel" threatened. >>
I hope you simply oversimplified Florida's self defense law, but in the event you didn't, then you need to read Florida laws a bit more closely, Tom, for not only do you need to be in a place that you have the right to be, but you must also reasonably believe you are preventing the commission of a forcible felony. Said a bit differently, where you are absolutely does make a difference, as does the actions of the other party. Shoot someone while trespassing, you'll likely go to jail. Shoot someone for committing a misdemeanor and/or an "un-forceful" felony, you'll likely go to jail. Respectfully.....Mike
[edited to add the Florida Statute:
Chapter 776
JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE
776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.--
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony. ]
<< <i>Let's sum up the happenings that morning.. First 4am.. Two men in Ski Masks.. The owner called for help.. He call 911.. The owner then knew his life, not his property was in danger, so he took the proper steps in defending his life.. Ok another issue everyone is talking about, 50 feet, 10 feet or no feet.. The robbery was taking place, it was dark and the man feared for his life.. Plain and simple..
>>
I agree with all of that except for the part where he feared for his life. Had he yelled out "I am calling the police" the robbers would have ran ASAP. I think he instead called 911 first and wanted them caught, which is not fearing for you life.
So I will be surprised if he ever warned the robbers, they may have broke the window and that is when the lead flew. Anyway I am not saying what he did was wrong, only that what he did was protect his property IMO.
Question: How do you know this?
Dave
<< <i>
<< <i>Let's sum up the happenings that morning.. >>
We can't, yet. >>
That didn't stop the OP from "knowing" that "the owner was correct in doing what he did." Then again, factual writing isn't his strong suit.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Let's sum up the happenings that morning.. >>
We can't, yet. >>
That didn't stop the OP from "knowing" that "the owner was correct in doing what he did." Then again, factual writing isn't his strong suit.
Where did I say that and where have I ever had a problem with my facts here?
<< <i>
<< <i>Let's sum up the happenings that morning.. First 4am.. Two men in Ski Masks.. The owner called for help.. He call 911.. The owner then knew his life, not his property was in danger, so he took the proper steps in defending his life.. Ok another issue everyone is talking about, 50 feet, 10 feet or no feet.. The robbery was taking place, it was dark and the man feared for his life.. Plain and simple..
>>
I agree with all of that except for the part where he feared for his life. Had he yelled out "I am calling the police" the robbers would have ran ASAP. I think he instead called 911 first and wanted them caught, which is not fearing for you life.
So I will be surprised if he ever warned the robbers, they may have broke the window and that is when the lead flew. Anyway I am not saying what he did was wrong, only that what he did was protect his property IMO. >>
Maybe if he stupidly yelled out "I am calling the police" he would have been shot dead. There's a good reason for shoot first and ask questions later starting with the fact he's an old man who's alone facing two young crooks.
Free Trial
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Let's sum up the happenings that morning.. >>
We can't, yet. >>
That didn't stop the OP from "knowing" that "the owner was correct in doing what he did." Then again, factual writing isn't his strong suit.
Where did I say that and where have I ever had a problem with my facts here? >>
I think he meant YaHa.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Let's sum up the happenings that morning.. First 4am.. Two men in Ski Masks.. The owner called for help.. He call 911.. The owner then knew his life, not his property was in danger, so he took the proper steps in defending his life.. Ok another issue everyone is talking about, 50 feet, 10 feet or no feet.. The robbery was taking place, it was dark and the man feared for his life.. Plain and simple..
>>
I agree with all of that except for the part where he feared for his life. Had he yelled out "I am calling the police" the robbers would have ran ASAP. I think he instead called 911 first and wanted them caught, which is not fearing for you life.
So I will be surprised if he ever warned the robbers, they may have broke the window and that is when the lead flew. Anyway I am not saying what he did was wrong, only that what he did was protect his property IMO. >>
Maybe if he stupidly yelled out "I am calling the police" he would have been shot dead. There's a good reason for shoot first and ask questions later starting with the fact he's an old man who's alone facing two young crooks. >>
I doubt he has any chance of being prosecuted with the budget crisis in California. If anything they will be releasing many more crooks out into the communities to save money.
However I think the 911 call may be what they use to determine what happened. If he sounds scared then he is OK, just remember when you call 911 to say you are afraid for your life.
I'm having a hard time understanding why this "old man" who had previously been robbed a week or two ago and is in a line of business that is regularly targeted by thieves would be alone in his business at 4 in the morning.
Sort of like the woman who goes out drinking alone....she sort of deserves trouble, right?
Dave
<< <i>I'm having a hard time understanding why this "old man" who had previously been robbed a week or two ago and is in a line of business that is regularly targeted by thieves would be alone in his business at 4 in the morning. >>
Maybe he was taking responsibility for protecting his property. The police have no legal obligation to provide protection, so if he doesn't do it, who will?
<< <i>I'm having a hard time understanding why this "old man" who had previously been robbed a week or two ago and is in a line of business that is regularly targeted by thieves would be alone in his business at 4 in the morning
Sort of like the woman you goes out drinking alone....she sort of deserves trouble, right?
Dave >>
No, not at all. I'm just wondering if the shop owner was having a hard time separating himself from his business.
<< <i>If the robber was shot in the front I suspect the store owner will be o.k. and no charges filed. The body
being found in the parking lot does not help the shop owners case. >>
That depends, if he used C4 as Yaha suggested, I imagine the parking lot was very possibly a landing zone.
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm having a hard time understanding why this "old man" who had previously been robbed a week or two ago and is in a line of business that is regularly targeted by thieves would be alone in his business at 4 in the morning. >>
Maybe he was taking responsibility for protecting his property. The police have no legal obligation to provide protection, so if he doesn't do it, who will? >>
What I am wondering is at what point do you as a person separate yourself from your business? The owner at least had barred windows and an alarm system. I assume that he is insured and that he was keeping high dollar items off-site. He had other options such as a paid security patrol, video surveillance, etc. IF he was camping his store, then that to me seems to be a bit much. I personally wouldn't do it but that doesn't mean that he doesn't have the right to so long as he is within the law. Again, going solely on dreamed up scenarios, there are two arguments for shooting the guy. 1. Self defense. 2. Protecting personal property. IF the owner was never in harms way then that rules out 1 and leaves 2. What I wonder is if the protecting personal property extends to his business. There is a big difference in shooting a guy who broke into your home and one who broke into your business.
...........please don't suggest that we start giving out 'time-outs'
<< <i>There is a big difference in shooting a guy who broke into your home and one who broke into your business. >>
Not picking a fight, but I would suggest that that is an opinion, not a fact.
<< <i>IF the owner was never in harms way >>
Who makes that decision, Robb? IMHO, if I'm in my store when it's closed and I see two guys trying, attempting, wishing WHATEVER, to break in, I, sir, am in harm's way big time. Are they armed? I don't know or care. Do they intend to hurt me? I don't know or care. I am in harm's way, period.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Let's sum up the happenings that morning.. >>
We can't, yet. >>
That didn't stop the OP from "knowing" that "the owner was correct in doing what he did." Then again, factual writing isn't his strong suit.
Blucc was just stating what was in the news release. So why are you so quick to be snyde, especially unprovoked? Seems like you could use some lessons in playing nice.
The Penny Lady®
..............
"I have no gun. I want your coins only. Do not shoot; I am not here to harm you!"
This would of course clear things up, and would immediately put the shop owner at ease, and could have prevented this ‘tragedy’.
Dave
.............and what a wonderful world this would be.........................................
Both would be robbers were in the store, charging the owner when they were shot.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Let's sum up the happenings that morning.. >>
We can't, yet. >>
That didn't stop the OP from "knowing" that "the owner was correct in doing what he did." Then again, factual writing isn't his strong suit.
Where did I say that and where have I ever had a problem with my facts here? >>
I think he meant YaHa. >>
Robb, I meant Hypo facts so far.. I will say this.. We will never know the true story of what happened that morning.. Basically we have a robbery and dead man and a coin shop owner that is worried that his shop will be closed now for good. God knows what he will go through the rest of his life. Another American dream spoiled again by some losers that were created during a time of lust..
And my factual writing needs not to be considered in my theory.. The law, is the law and maybe all of the smart ones should read it, instead of dictating it the way you vision.. You can't do that..
That said, I personally think that we should be able to protect life AND property from criminals, deadly force included. Unfortunately some state laws do not allow the use of deadly force for the protection of property, only life. I would hope that he was justified in his shooting. If he had two people breaking in, he calls 911 but they are too slow, the burglars gain entry and pose a perceived threat of harm, then he should be fine. If they opened the door and he just shot them, there will be problems.
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<< <i>When I read about things like this, I often go back to when I was 19 years old and was a delivery driver for Pizza Hut... one night, two distinguished gentleman ran up to me and said "you betta gimme yo money!" (and he was simultaneously acting like he had a weapon in his pocket and was motioning like he was going to pull it out, but never did)... Anyway, my wallet was kept in the same pocket as a loaded .38; I could have very easily smoked the both of them, but didn't. I often wonder how my life would have turned out differently had I taken them out that night. >>
..........makes me wonder how many more people got robbed or worse SINCE your encounter.
<< <i>Here is a related fact.
Both would be robbers were in the store, charging the owner when they were shot. >>
If this is the facts, then the owner should be fine. If I have a gun and you still advance on me, you must have intentions of disarming and killing me, I will shoot you.
<< <i>Here is a related fact.
Both would be robbers were in the store, charging the owner when they were shot. >>
That's part of what was originally unknown. If this is true, the shooting was almost certainly justifiable.
The reason I ask, down here in my county that outfit has taken up shop in the Holiday Inn for the past 6 weekends.. I went in there to ask what price do they pay on 14k,18k,22k and 24kt Gold and the one customer service rep told me that it varies? Not good english either
While in line, down the line a couple of young kids around 25/30 were handing over Gold coins and thick gold chains.. The chains looked like that herringbone crap I had 25 years ago in 18k Gold.. No questions were asked.. So, I am wondering the theory of all of these recent robbery in my area also..
Thanks for any info..
<< <i>Can Lee (19Lyds) or anyone else confirm that his shop hours were 9-6 M-F? >>
Shop hours are more 10-4 T-Th and by appt. he has had very limited hours for a long time.
Nobody wants to take a life and the command is that we shouldn't. This is a No-Win situation and the juducial system should close the books on this case before it is even a case. It's finished. Business as usual.
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<< <i>If the robber was shot in the front I suspect the store owner will be o.k. and no charges filed. The body
being found in the parking lot does not help the shop owners case. >>
He was shot inside the store then ran out with the other robber.
I'm sorry, but when you steal my stuff you have harmed me. If he had no harm in is heart, he would have visited when the store was open.
Yes it is...
<< <i>
<< <i>. >>
He was shot inside the store then ran out with the other robber. >>
Is that a fact? >>
Yes. Lets just take my word on it and not get into proving it or asking questions. I know it is as fact.
<< <i>and may have had no intentions of harming anyone
I'm sorry, but when you steal my stuff you have harmed me. If he had no harm in is heart, he would have visited when the store was open. >>
Stealing from you is not is justification to shoot someone. Fearing for your safety is
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<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Let's sum up the happenings that morning.. >>
We can't, yet. >>
That didn't stop the OP from "knowing" that "the owner was correct in doing what he did." Then again, factual writing isn't his strong suit.
Where did I say that and where have I ever had a problem with my facts here? >>
Halfstrike was correct. My comment was not directed at you, but rather the one who feels the need to explain the law to the rest of us while doing a poor job of it to boot....Mike