the contact Steve game me was for the Executive Assistant to the President, bad news is she is out of the office today... I sent then the same e-mail to Joe. With luck someone will see the e-mail and hopefully reply!
I had 11 EOT'S last year that i know for a fact were not trimmed beacuse They were either Pack fresh and from a legit vendor, and i also want to add that i have seen many EOT'S on this board and to be Honest with everyone in here i am very Discouraged right now with PSA, My renewel is coming up within the next 3 weeks and i really do not if i will Re-up, Not only being discouraged on the cards i have sent that came back EOT's i could have sent in Much more cards into PSA, but Knowing that i will Get EOT'S well, i dont even send em.
It started back in 2008, when I saw a lot of EOT on cards I pulled out of packs. >>
Im sure they know who gave the Overall grade per PSA flip #, i cannot fathom they Not knowing who Gave a grade on a certain card , so that if it came back in Question , they can Know hey maybe the grader Needs more training etc
I really don't think it's that. If anything, the card is smaller than normal (probably not though), and should be MSR. I bet ten bucks it's the normal size though.
WHAT A BUNCH OF B.S. It's OBVIOUS, based upon what happened in the past few days, that PSA monitors this board VERY VERY CAREFULLY! Did they not see the group rip? Did they not see that the Jordan was going to be sent in by itself?
USE YOUR HEAD PSA!
With all the complaints recently about getting MANY lower grades than expected, you would think PSA would try to do some damage control and straighten this out. SHOW US, the people that MAKE YOU MONEY, that you are not intentionally bumping the grades downward, hoping that more submission fees come your way thru re-submissions.
In my 25+ years of collecting I never submitted cards to PSA ... until two months ago. (I submitted about 100 cards.) I purchased in excess of 2,000 PSA cards, but never submitted. After reading what has happened over the last six months, I really wonder if it is a good idea to submit any more? I am SURE that ALL of the people on this board cannot be THAT FAR OFF with their pre-grades. There are MANY people on these boards who are extremely knowledgeable about the hobby and card conditions. Has PSA hired ALL THE EXPERTS out there who are better graders than the people on these boards? I BET NOT! Until very recently I thought PSA did a great job policing the hobby ... keeping the crooks away ... grading cards the way they should be graded. Now I, like MOST people on this board, wonder if they take us to be fools ... to be their CASH COWS. PLEASE PSA TELL US IT ISN'T SO. Tell us that you made a mistake and hired people with little knowledge of the industry and tried to TEACH them in 2 weeks what it has taken us a lifetime to learn! Mistakes can be corrected. It takes a stand-up person to admit mistakes. HOPEFULLY you guys fall into that category!
STAY HEALTHY!
STAY HEALTHY!
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
<< <i>WHAT A BUNCH OF B.S. It's OBVIOUS, based upon what happened in the past few days, that PSA monitors this board VERY VERY CAREFULLY! Did they not see the group rip? Did they not see that the Jordan was going to be sent in by itself?
USE YOUR HEAD PSA!
With all the complaints recently about getting MANY lower grades than expected, you would think PSA would try to do some damage control and straighten this out. SHOW US, the people that MAKE YOU MONEY, that you are not intentionally bumping the grades downward, hoping that more submission fees come your way thru re-submissions.
In my 25+ years of collecting I never submitted cards to PSA ... until two months ago. (I submitted about 100 cards.) I purchased in excess of 2,000 PSA cards, but never submitted. After reading what has happened over the last six months, I really wonder if it is a good idea to submit any more? I am SURE that ALL of the people on this board cannot be THAT FAR OFF with their pre-grades. There are MANY people on these boards who are extremely knowledgeable about the hobby and card conditions. Has PSA hired ALL THE EXPERTS out there who are better graders than the people on these boards? I BET NOT! Until very recently I thought PSA did a great job policing the hobby ... keeping the crooks away ... grading cards the way they should be graded. Now I, like MOST people on this board, wonder if they take us to be fools ... to be their CASH COWS. PLEASE PSA TELL US IT ISN'T SO. Tell us that you made a mistake and hired people with little knowledge of the industry and tried to TEACH them in 2 weeks what it has taken us a lifetime to learn! Mistakes can be corrected. It takes a stand-up person to admit mistakes. HOPEFULLY you guys fall into that category!
STAY HEALTHY! >>
Very well put that says just about everything I'm currently feeling!
Must be Nice to Recieve a GEM 10 86 FLEER BASKETBALL CARD with a an Obvious Print Mark on the Front and a Gem 10 for an Off centered card with a Obvious chip piece off the red border, but then Again 4SC subs Thousands and Pays thousands , Shakes my head
You are welcome to send the card back to my attention for a review unless the card is still here.
I want thank Joe for answering my e-mail so fast, how many company presidents would e-mail you back within a hour? >>
Although I have never spoken with him, MANY people have said that he does respond quite quickly, which is a very nice thing for him to do. Ask him if the package is still there and if it is DONT SEND IT BACK!!! It will take another few weeks before it gets back to him.
Joe, PLEASE take our concerns seriously. We are not a bunch of kids making things up ... we are not the casual guy who spends $100 per year on cards. Together, as a group and with our other friends in the hobby, we are part of the lifeline of this hobby. Let's get it right and EVERYONE will be happy!
STAY HEALTHY!
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
I see no incentive for PSA to churn fees on EXPENSIVE cards.
The incentive - for them - on such cards is to get a substantial population of genuine, unaltered ones in their slabs.
If the ongoing EOT/MSR controversy was simply a little fee churning, I would not really care except for the ethics issue. While I do NOT think that is their general biz-model, I cannot, obviously, prove it one way or the other.
The issue of MISTAKES - EOT vs. MSR - when we KNOW the card just came out of an untampered pack is VERY troubling to me. I FULLY realize that a pack-fresh card can be MSR, but it is deeply troubling that any grader cannot consistently tell the difference between EOT and MSR.
It might be worthwhile for PSA to reach out to some "reformed" card doctors, and look into getting the graders some seminar time.
Since TPG is all about "value added," mistakes on the issue of altered vs. unaltered are REALLY the most serious ones.
Maybe, unless a grader is able to give at least a written sentence describing his EOT theory, all "suspect" cards should simply be rejected as MSR. This practice would protect the TPG on warranty issues, and would not cause folks like me to question the competence of a grader that cannot tell the difference between a doctored card and one that was simply cut "differently" at the factory.
In any event, the recurrent nature of the issue means something is not right.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
Sometimes, I think PSA card grading is just like Hollywood accounting. On its face, a truly fantastic idea. However, you dig a little bit deeper and you come terms and phrases like ...
1. "Grader of Death"; 2. Crack and Resubmit; 3. Crack and NOT Resubmit; 4. "Evidence" of Trimming; 5. Frosting; 6. Flips and Kerning; 7. "PSA Authentic"; 8. High Volume Submitters; 9. Crossover; 10. "Minimum standard"; 11. Half-Point Grades; and 12. Sheet-Cut.
And then you realize, wow, things have become a lot more complicated and it can be quite hard to "never get cheated."
<< <i>I see no incentive for PSA to churn fees on EXPENSIVE cards.
The incentive - for them - on such cards is to get a substantial population of genuine, unaltered ones in their slabs.
If the ongoing EOT/MSR controversy was simply a little fee churning, I would not really care except for the ethics issue. While I do NOT think that is their general biz-model, I cannot, obviously, prove it one way or the other.
The issue of MISTAKES - EOT vs. MSR - when we KNOW the card just came out of an untampered pack is VERY troubling to me. I FULLY realize that a pack-fresh card can be MSR, but it is deeply troubling that any grader cannot consistently tell the difference between EOT and MSR.
It might be worthwhile for PSA to reach out to some "reformed" card doctors, and look into getting the graders some seminar time.
Since TPG is all about "value added," mistakes on the issue of altered vs. unaltered are REALLY the most serious ones.
Maybe, unless a grader is able to give at least a written sentence describing his EOT theory, all "suspect" cards should simply be rejected as MSR. This practice would protect the TPG on warranty issues, and would not cause folks like me to question the competence of a grader that cannot tell the difference between a doctored card and one that was simply cut "differently" at the factory.
In any event, the recurrent nature of the issue means something is not right. >>
Storm you are always the voice of reason... could you maybe try and fix the economy with your next post?
<< <i>No CS said that would not be possible and the grade was basically final...
Oh boy.. I hope they can stop it.. I don't want this to drag out for 2 weeks >>
I think it is still there, the account does not even show the grade has pop'ed but if click on the order number it shows the grade. >>
I would get on the phone with someone and tell them to not ship it out. Tell them that Joe has agreed to review the card and make sure that you copy Joe in an email saying that the card is still there.
I would also hurry in doing so before they ship it back to you.
I have had cards I pulled in the past with EOT in the past but never a MJ or any common that I pulled from a pack
One was a PSA 8 and the other a BGS 8.5- I have submiited plenty of commons and they all got a grade.
I am pretty bummed at the moment.
** Working on the following sets-2013 Spectra Football Hall of Fame 50th Anniversary Autograph set, 2015 Spectra Football Illustrious Legends Autograph set, 2014-15 Hall of Fame Heroes autograph set. **
This is ridiculous. The Jordan I pulled from the break is packaged and on the way to PSA. I hope the results I get are better. Its terrible that results like this are becoming more common place on legitimate high $ cards. Hopefully this situation will be resolved appropriately. Best of luck leachtech and thanks for putting the rip together.
Just got another e-mail back from Joe - he seemed kind of annoyed by his CS response about the card...
Mr. Orlando asked if I could call back CS and put a hold on the shippment (which they were able to do). It's amazing how much more responsive CS is when you drop the name of the company president on them.
i'm astonshied......i went through a 3 year span of great success submitting cards to PSA, and i pretty much accepted what came back as the gospel.....a small fraction of cards came back EOT, Minimum Size, Re-colored, Altered, etc.....and since i sent in so many thousands, i just figured they must have been quite obvious to come back that way.......WELLLLLLLLLLLL, now i'm going back through some of these cards and of course saying "WTF?" as i begin to assess the real obvious......something is TERRIBLY WRONG at PSA right NOW and while i still support the concept of third party grading and the importance to the market and overall hobby, i would swallow fresh feces right now before i send in another card for grading.
Joe, you guys have been great to me and i appreciate EVERYTHING that's been done to help me achieve success as a businessman and collector, but this recent spate of grading inconsistency is too OBVIOUS!
it's time to hire some people who are better qualified, pay them well and earn your customers back.....until then i'll be watching from the sidelines.
<< <i>Just got another e-mail back from Joe - he seemed kind of annoyed by his CS response about the card...
Mr. Orlando asked if I could call back CS and put a hold on the shippment (which they were able to do). It's amazing how much more responsive CS is when you drop the name of the company president on them.
Again big thanks to Mr. Orlando for doing this... >>
GLAD THAT HE STEPPED IN TO ASSIST YOU. HOPEFULLY HE WILL STEP UP AND RESOLVE THE OTHER ISSUES AS WELL. THERE IS PLENTY $$$ TO GO AROUND IF EVERYONE PLAYS FAIR.
STAY HEALTHY!
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
<< <i>Just got another e-mail back from Joe - he seemed kind of annoyed by his CS response about the card...
Mr. Orlando asked if I could call back CS and put a hold on the shippment (which they were able to do). It's amazing how much more responsive CS is when you drop the name of the company president on them.
Again big thanks to Mr. Orlando for doing this... >>
GLAD THAT HE STEPPED IN TO ASSIST YOU. HOPEFULLY HE WILL STEP UP AND RESOLVE THE OTHER ISSUES AS WELL. THERE IS PLENTY $$$ TO GO AROUND IF EVERYONE PLAYS FAIR. >>
Dboneesq - you've made some great points you really should send a letter or e-mail to Joe - he seems to really care about his company and image.
as a side note I really don't know what to make of all of this... I guess I would just be happy to know why 3 grades felt the card was trimmed??? If after further review PSA still says trimmed I can live with as long as I know why they feel that way. Honesty PSA does not know the history of my Jordan from any other one that might come in - hopefully in the end everything will work.
All this does is make One want to Try Other 3rd party Graders, Such as SGC , i have heard alot of Good things about them. maybe it is Time to switch and see what other companys Offer.Maybe it is True PSA wants us to Re-sub where they Make more Money via Cards and On shipping, Stock Market Companys Need revenue In order to make Holders happy, Just a Thought
I was going to say,.... they can stop that and put it on hold.. I have done that before.. the thing I like about psa.. is Joe.. it has kept me coming back when I have been pissed he is the best thing about psa.. no offense to anyone else.. because I have had some excellent customer service from them
Unreal! As the previous owner of the number one 1971 Football set in the PSA registry in 2003 I know quite a bit about their grading standards. I had a 1971 PSA 9 Gale Gillingham card that had what looked like a piece of lettuce on it. I bought it on ebay from 4 sharp corners. I remember bringing it the 2003 National in Atlantic City and showed it to them. They said it was still a 9 because it was a printing defect. WTF? I also showed them a BGS 8.5 2002 Jeremy Shockey Finest Xfractor with a real nice corner ding. They said yeah we'll grade it a 9. They did. All about the money. Their holders suck. Their grading is all over the place. After the national I have never sent them another card. Why everyone mentally masterbates themselves about PSA graded cards is beyond me. Cards moving around in holders. Evidence of trimming on pack fresh openened cards. High volune submitters getting 9's and 10's on cards we would get 8's on. A friggin joke. Ban me if you wish. The truth is the TRUTH.
Hey Joe hit the tanning bed again and laugh your a@@ off a all us jokers. You unreal fraud!
Well, before this thread goes poof, I just want to say that I will NEVER... EVER... EVER use another grading service besides PSA. Sorry, I'm sure other companies have the same thing happen to them, it's just not reported as loudly as it is here. PSA has it's faults (everyone does), but they are still the cream of the crop.
I always hate to read about these types of things (what a nightmare for the submitter) but I think you have to let the matter run its course. I have spoken to Joe on a few occassions and also exchanged e-mails with him. He has always been more than pleasant and fair with me in regards to my issues. It therefore does not surprise me that he jumped right on this. With that said, I think everyone would be well served to wait and see what are the results. Hopefully in the process, this will raise awareness, and a resolution, to the issue between "minimum size requirements" and "evidence of trimming."
<< <i>I do have faith in their system, and their customer service. Like I said, if anything, if the card is smaller than normal, give it a MSR, not an EOT. >>
Why not have a designation for a MSR card... Graders should be able to still a grade to MSR card - shouldn't graders be able to tell the difference between MSR and EOT?
Well, my stance on grading will remain the same...I'll own PSA cards, I'll own SGC cards...and I'm even considering adding a few BGS modern cards (I'm a hypocrite).
14022200 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 13 SAM BOWIE Card US 14022201 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 30 ALEX ENGLISH Card US 14022202 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 41 DAVE GREENWOOD Card US 14022203 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 37 ARTIS GILMORE Card US 14022204 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1986 FLEER 60 BERNARD KING Card US 14022205 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 68 KARL MALONE Card US 14022206 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 76 JOHNNY MOORE Card US 14022207 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 80 NORM NIXON Card US 14022208 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 86 SAM PERKINS Card US 14022209 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 98 DAN SCHAYES Card US 14022210 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 121 DOMINIQUE WILKINS Card US 14022211 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1986 FLEER 105 RORY SPARROW
i sent this submission around the same time i pulled a jordan from a wax pack (thread is on the board somewhere). the jordan pulled an 8 and after a resub it pulled a 9. granted, i did not see these cards pulled from the pack as it was a set i purchased "less the jordan" and they very well could have been trimeed but i'm doubtful at this point.
best of luck to you leathtech.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
Comments
<< <i>Just send it here............
Send it to these guys. >>
I agree send the card there. Nicer holder!
------------------------------------
I can't BELIEVE what happened! You pulled this card from a pack..........and comes back EVIDENCE OF TRIM?
WOW
My unopened 1986 Fleer Jordan back pack will be off to PSA for grading in a few days............. I HOPE THEY GET THE GRADE RIGHT......
<< <i>
------------------------------------
I can't BELIEVE what happened! You pulled this card from a pack..........and comes back EVIDENCE OF TRIM?
WOW
My unopened 1986 Fleer Jordan back pack will be off to PSA for grading in a few days............. I HOPE THEY GET THE GRADE RIGHT...... >>
I currently have 15 other cards and 1 pack at PSA from this break... I wonder how those will grade out?????
<< <i>I understand PSA makes mistakes and I hope they are truly trying to protect the hobby and not forcing people to play the resub game
you deserve a psa10 for that comment right there.. that is the high road >>
I think he has to take the high road as PSA holds a rather valuable card of his in their hands and could cost him or make him lots of money!!
Are they new?
It started back in 2008, when I saw a lot of EOT on cards I pulled out of packs.
SSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! I know it was supposed to be subliminal to psa!!!
mathew
drugs of choice
NHL hall of fame rookies
<< <i>I understand PSA makes mistakes and I hope they are truly trying to protect the hobby and not forcing people to play the resub game
you deserve a psa10 for that comment right there.. that is the high road >>
I think there totally forcing people to play re-sub game, without a doubt.
<< <i>Who is the assigned grader(s)?
Are they new?
It started back in 2008, when I saw a lot of EOT on cards I pulled out of packs. >>
Im sure they know who gave the Overall grade per PSA flip #, i cannot fathom they Not knowing who Gave a grade on a certain card , so that if it came back in Question , they can Know hey maybe the grader Needs more training etc
<< <i>Does someone have the old virtual ruler program to measure the card with ? >>
jruler
<< <i>Does someone have the old virtual ruler program to measure the card with ? >>
Is this it?
USE YOUR HEAD PSA!
With all the complaints recently about getting MANY lower grades than expected, you would think PSA would try to do some damage control and straighten this out. SHOW US, the people that MAKE YOU MONEY, that you are not intentionally bumping the grades downward, hoping that more submission fees come your way thru re-submissions.
In my 25+ years of collecting I never submitted cards to PSA ... until two months ago. (I submitted about 100 cards.) I purchased in excess of 2,000 PSA cards, but never submitted. After reading what has happened over the last six months, I really wonder if it is a good idea to submit any more? I am SURE that ALL of the people on this board cannot be THAT FAR OFF with their pre-grades. There are MANY people on these boards who are extremely knowledgeable about the hobby and card conditions. Has PSA hired ALL THE EXPERTS out there who are better graders than the people on these boards? I BET NOT! Until very recently I thought PSA did a great job policing the hobby ... keeping the crooks away ... grading cards the way they should be graded. Now I, like MOST people on this board, wonder if they take us to be fools ... to be their CASH COWS. PLEASE PSA TELL US IT ISN'T SO. Tell us that you made a mistake and hired people with little knowledge of the industry and tried to TEACH them in 2 weeks what it has taken us a lifetime to learn! Mistakes can be corrected. It takes a stand-up person to admit mistakes. HOPEFULLY you guys fall into that category!
STAY HEALTHY!
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
<< <i>WHAT A BUNCH OF B.S. It's OBVIOUS, based upon what happened in the past few days, that PSA monitors this board VERY VERY CAREFULLY! Did they not see the group rip? Did they not see that the Jordan was going to be sent in by itself?
USE YOUR HEAD PSA!
With all the complaints recently about getting MANY lower grades than expected, you would think PSA would try to do some damage control and straighten this out. SHOW US, the people that MAKE YOU MONEY, that you are not intentionally bumping the grades downward, hoping that more submission fees come your way thru re-submissions.
In my 25+ years of collecting I never submitted cards to PSA ... until two months ago. (I submitted about 100 cards.) I purchased in excess of 2,000 PSA cards, but never submitted. After reading what has happened over the last six months, I really wonder if it is a good idea to submit any more? I am SURE that ALL of the people on this board cannot be THAT FAR OFF with their pre-grades. There are MANY people on these boards who are extremely knowledgeable about the hobby and card conditions. Has PSA hired ALL THE EXPERTS out there who are better graders than the people on these boards? I BET NOT! Until very recently I thought PSA did a great job policing the hobby ... keeping the crooks away ... grading cards the way they should be graded. Now I, like MOST people on this board, wonder if they take us to be fools ... to be their CASH COWS. PLEASE PSA TELL US IT ISN'T SO. Tell us that you made a mistake and hired people with little knowledge of the industry and tried to TEACH them in 2 weeks what it has taken us a lifetime to learn! Mistakes can be corrected. It takes a stand-up person to admit mistakes. HOPEFULLY you guys fall into that category!
STAY HEALTHY! >>
Very well put that says just about everything I'm currently feeling!
You are welcome to send the card back to my attention for a review unless the card is still here.
I want thank Joe for answering my e-mail so fast, how many company presidents would e-mail you back within a hour?
I am eagerly awaiting good news on this
<< <i>excellent.. you did put a stop on the shipment right?
I am eagerly awaiting good news on this >>
No CS said that would not be possible and the grade was basically final...
<< <i>Here was Mr. Orlando's response:
You are welcome to send the card back to my attention for a review unless the card is still here.
I want thank Joe for answering my e-mail so fast, how many company presidents would e-mail you back within a hour? >>
Although I have never spoken with him, MANY people have said that he does respond quite quickly, which is a very nice thing for him to do. Ask him if the package is still there and if it is DONT SEND IT BACK!!! It will take another few weeks before it gets back to him.
Joe, PLEASE take our concerns seriously. We are not a bunch of kids making things up ... we are not the casual guy who spends $100 per year on cards. Together, as a group and with our other friends in the hobby, we are part of the lifeline of this hobby. Let's get it right and EVERYONE will be happy!
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
it is far from final.
J
RIP GURU
Oh boy.. I hope they can stop it.. I don't want this to drag out for 2 weeks
The incentive - for them - on such cards is to get a substantial
population of genuine, unaltered ones in their slabs.
If the ongoing EOT/MSR controversy was simply a little
fee churning, I would not really care except for the ethics
issue. While I do NOT think that is their general biz-model,
I cannot, obviously, prove it one way or the other.
The issue of MISTAKES - EOT vs. MSR - when we KNOW the
card just came out of an untampered pack is VERY troubling
to me. I FULLY realize that a pack-fresh card can be MSR, but
it is deeply troubling that any grader cannot consistently tell
the difference between EOT and MSR.
It might be worthwhile for PSA to reach out to some "reformed"
card doctors, and look into getting the graders some seminar
time.
Since TPG is all about "value added," mistakes on the issue
of altered vs. unaltered are REALLY the most serious ones.
Maybe, unless a grader is able to give at least a written sentence
describing his EOT theory, all "suspect" cards should simply be
rejected as MSR. This practice would protect the TPG on warranty
issues, and would not cause folks like me to question the competence
of a grader that cannot tell the difference between a doctored card
and one that was simply cut "differently" at the factory.
In any event, the recurrent nature of the issue means something
is not right.
<< <i>No CS said that would not be possible and the grade was basically final...
Oh boy.. I hope they can stop it.. I don't want this to drag out for 2 weeks >>
I think it is still there, the account does not even show the grade has pop'ed but if click on the order number it shows the grade.
1. "Grader of Death";
2. Crack and Resubmit;
3. Crack and NOT Resubmit;
4. "Evidence" of Trimming;
5. Frosting;
6. Flips and Kerning;
7. "PSA Authentic";
8. High Volume Submitters;
9. Crossover;
10. "Minimum standard";
11. Half-Point Grades; and
12. Sheet-Cut.
And then you realize, wow, things have become a lot more complicated and it can be quite hard to "never get cheated."
/s/ JackWESQ
<< <i>I see no incentive for PSA to churn fees on EXPENSIVE cards.
The incentive - for them - on such cards is to get a substantial
population of genuine, unaltered ones in their slabs.
If the ongoing EOT/MSR controversy was simply a little
fee churning, I would not really care except for the ethics
issue. While I do NOT think that is their general biz-model,
I cannot, obviously, prove it one way or the other.
The issue of MISTAKES - EOT vs. MSR - when we KNOW the
card just came out of an untampered pack is VERY troubling
to me. I FULLY realize that a pack-fresh card can be MSR, but
it is deeply troubling that any grader cannot consistently tell
the difference between EOT and MSR.
It might be worthwhile for PSA to reach out to some "reformed"
card doctors, and look into getting the graders some seminar
time.
Since TPG is all about "value added," mistakes on the issue
of altered vs. unaltered are REALLY the most serious ones.
Maybe, unless a grader is able to give at least a written sentence
describing his EOT theory, all "suspect" cards should simply be
rejected as MSR. This practice would protect the TPG on warranty
issues, and would not cause folks like me to question the competence
of a grader that cannot tell the difference between a doctored card
and one that was simply cut "differently" at the factory.
In any event, the recurrent nature of the issue means something
is not right. >>
Storm you are always the voice of reason... could you maybe try and fix the economy with your next post?
<< <i>
<< <i>No CS said that would not be possible and the grade was basically final...
Oh boy.. I hope they can stop it.. I don't want this to drag out for 2 weeks >>
I think it is still there, the account does not even show the grade has pop'ed but if click on the order number it shows the grade. >>
I would get on the phone with someone and tell them to not ship it out. Tell them that Joe has agreed to review the card and make sure that you copy Joe in an email saying that the card is still there.
I would also hurry in doing so before they ship it back to you.
now stop reading this and get on the phone!!!!
mathew
drugs of choice
NHL hall of fame rookies
I have had cards I pulled in the past with EOT in the past but never a MJ or any common that I pulled from a pack
One was a PSA 8 and the other a BGS 8.5- I have submiited plenty of commons and they all got a grade.
I am pretty bummed at the moment.
<< <i>Sean, Do you submit your autos through Spence now ?? >>
Stoney
For Sale
Mr. Orlando asked if I could call back CS and put a hold on the shippment (which they were able to do). It's amazing how much more responsive CS is when you drop the name of the company president on them.
Again big thanks to Mr. Orlando for doing this...
Joe, you guys have been great to me and i appreciate EVERYTHING that's been done to help me achieve success as a businessman and collector, but this recent spate of grading inconsistency is too OBVIOUS!
it's time to hire some people who are better qualified, pay them well and earn your customers back.....until then i'll be watching from the sidelines.
Sounds like he's TCOB.
<< <i>Just got another e-mail back from Joe - he seemed kind of annoyed by his CS response about the card...
Mr. Orlando asked if I could call back CS and put a hold on the shippment (which they were able to do). It's amazing how much more responsive CS is when you drop the name of the company president on them.
Again big thanks to Mr. Orlando for doing this... >>
GLAD THAT HE STEPPED IN TO ASSIST YOU. HOPEFULLY HE WILL STEP UP AND RESOLVE THE OTHER ISSUES AS WELL. THERE IS PLENTY $$$ TO GO AROUND IF EVERYONE PLAYS FAIR.
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
<< <i>
<< <i>Just got another e-mail back from Joe - he seemed kind of annoyed by his CS response about the card...
Mr. Orlando asked if I could call back CS and put a hold on the shippment (which they were able to do). It's amazing how much more responsive CS is when you drop the name of the company president on them.
Again big thanks to Mr. Orlando for doing this... >>
GLAD THAT HE STEPPED IN TO ASSIST YOU. HOPEFULLY HE WILL STEP UP AND RESOLVE THE OTHER ISSUES AS WELL. THERE IS PLENTY $$$ TO GO AROUND IF EVERYONE PLAYS FAIR. >>
Dboneesq - you've made some great points you really should send a letter or e-mail to Joe - he seems to really care about his company and image.
as a side note I really don't know what to make of all of this... I guess I would just be happy to know why 3 grades felt the card was trimmed??? If after further review PSA still says trimmed I can live with as long as I know why they feel that way. Honesty PSA does not know the history of my Jordan from any other one that might come in - hopefully in the end everything will work.
the thing I like about psa.. is Joe..
it has kept me coming back when I have been pissed
he is the best thing about psa.. no offense to anyone else.. because I have had some excellent customer service from them
Hey Joe hit the tanning bed again and laugh your a@@ off a all us jokers. You unreal fraud!
yikes...
I am gonna go get a talk glass of chocolate milk and wait for the imminent good news
<< <i>Hey Joe hit the tanning bed again and laugh your a@@ off a all us jokers. You unreal fraud! >>
That's just uncalled for.
<< <i>I do have faith in their system, and their customer service. Like I said, if anything, if the card is smaller than normal, give it a MSR, not an EOT. >>
Why not have a designation for a MSR card... Graders should be able to still a grade to MSR card - shouldn't graders be able to tell the difference between MSR and EOT?
PSA should just have an MSR qualifier.
Either way, I hope this ends the way it should.
14022200 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 13 SAM BOWIE Card US
14022201 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 30 ALEX ENGLISH Card US
14022202 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 41 DAVE GREENWOOD Card US
14022203 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 37 ARTIS GILMORE Card US
14022204 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1986 FLEER 60 BERNARD KING Card US
14022205 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 68 KARL MALONE Card US
14022206 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 76 JOHNNY MOORE Card US
14022207 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 80 NORM NIXON Card US
14022208 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 86 SAM PERKINS Card US
14022209 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 98 DAN SCHAYES Card US
14022210 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 121 DOMINIQUE WILKINS Card US
14022211 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1986 FLEER 105 RORY SPARROW
i sent this submission around the same time i pulled a jordan from a wax pack (thread is on the board somewhere). the jordan pulled an 8 and after a resub it pulled a 9. granted, i did not see these cards pulled from the pack as it was a set i purchased "less the jordan" and they very well could have been trimeed but i'm doubtful at this point.
best of luck to you leathtech.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06