re: props to Joe...........it's nice you guys think that he is a hands-on, jump on it now Prez, but does anyone think that their time could be more valuable NOT having to persistently raise red flags over issues.
<< <i>i've sent one 86 fleer since the disaster below:
14022200 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 13 SAM BOWIE Card US 14022201 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 30 ALEX ENGLISH Card US 14022202 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 41 DAVE GREENWOOD Card US 14022203 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 37 ARTIS GILMORE Card US 14022204 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1986 FLEER 60 BERNARD KING Card US 14022205 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 68 KARL MALONE Card US 14022206 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 76 JOHNNY MOORE Card US 14022207 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 80 NORM NIXON Card US 14022208 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 86 SAM PERKINS Card US 14022209 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 98 DAN SCHAYES Card US 14022210 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 121 DOMINIQUE WILKINS Card US 14022211 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1986 FLEER 105 RORY SPARROW
i sent this submission around the same time i pulled a jordan from a wax pack (thread is on the board somewhere). the jordan pulled an 8 and after a resub it pulled a 9. granted, i did not see these cards pulled from the pack as it was a set i purchased "less the jordan" and they very well could have been trimeed but i'm doubtful at this point.
best of luck to you leathtech. >>
WOW! I wonder if PSA has an internal memo out about 1986 Fleer - I can't believe all these cards people have posted are EOT.
I will offer my props to Joe for stepping up and agreeing to look at this card for you. IF the card does get graded I really think he owes his customers...including all of us here.. an explaination of what happened and how he intends to address this issue. The only question is will he address us with any information or will it all be swept under the rug?
<< <i>Unreal! As the previous owner of the number one 1971 Football set in the PSA registry in 2003 I know quite a bit about their grading standards. I had a 1971 PSA 9 Gale Gillingham card that had what looked like a piece of lettuce on it. I bought it on ebay from 4 sharp corners. I remember bringing it the 2003 National in Atlantic City and showed it to them. They said it was still a 9 because it was a printing defect. WTF? I also showed them a BGS 8.5 2002 Jeremy Shockey Finest Xfractor with a real nice corner ding. They said yeah we'll grade it a 9. They did. All about the money. Their holders suck. Their grading is all over the place. After the national I have never sent them another card. Why everyone mentally masterbates themselves about PSA graded cards is beyond me. Cards moving around in holders. Evidence of trimming on pack fresh openened cards. High volune submitters getting 9's and 10's on cards we would get 8's on. A friggin joke. Ban me if you wish. The truth is the TRUTH.
Hey Joe hit the tanning bed again and laugh your a@@ off a all us jokers. You unreal fraud! >>
Questioning the practices of the company or the way Joe runs the place is one thing.... Personal attacks is another. This definitly was uncalled for!
<< <i>Well I have 13 from my two packs and I am waiting to see how this is resolved. >>
yes I'm worried about my other 15 common cards that are at PSA... I really though all had a good shot at PSA 9 - I was even going to start a PSA 9 registry set!
<< <i>Hey Joe hit the tanning bed again and laugh your a@@ off a all us jokers. You unreal fraud! >>
That's just uncalled for. >>
For a moment I thought you might be right that it was uncalled for. Then I regained my senses and decided it was a little subdued. I should have been more harsh. Everyone has their experiences with PSA or whomever. I have been a member of these boards for a while. Don't post much. But, there are quite a few long time members here that can speak to my integrity. Some of them I have met and dealt with personally. When I see and hear garbage like this I get POED. Why? Because I want to believe. Like you do and Mulder does! You all know what I mean. If we all start to not believe. Oh Boy! The truth is the TRUTH!
Seriously lets think about this, As many Cards as the Graders grade, They cannot Tell if its Been EOT or MSR? I cant believe this! nor will i subscribe to this thoery, cmon now there is only X amount of way One can alter a card , If One cannot tell what a EOT versus a MSR is they should not be grading!, So yes i know For a fact that the chain Of command is letting this slip Bye on Purpose, More people sending in Cards to Be graded means more $$$$$$ , the only way this will change is if we As Customers Make this Known and that is what I am doing here now.
If you don't mind me asking what was the out come?
joe asked me to send them back to him for review (same as he asked you) and i never did.
i'll double check my CS1s, but i'm pretty sure they are still in the returned CS1 holders with the EOT label. i've thought about resubbing the malone, moore and nique, but haven't.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
<< <i>Unreal! As the previous owner of the number one 1971 Football set in the PSA registry in 2003 I know quite a bit about their grading standards. I had a 1971 PSA 9 Gale Gillingham card that had what looked like a piece of lettuce on it. I bought it on ebay from 4 sharp corners. I remember bringing it the 2003 National in Atlantic City and showed it to them. They said it was still a 9 because it was a printing defect. WTF? I also showed them a BGS 8.5 2002 Jeremy Shockey Finest Xfractor with a real nice corner ding. They said yeah we'll grade it a 9. They did. All about the money. Their holders suck. Their grading is all over the place. After the national I have never sent them another card. Why everyone mentally masterbates themselves about PSA graded cards is beyond me. Cards moving around in holders. Evidence of trimming on pack fresh openened cards. High volune submitters getting 9's and 10's on cards we would get 8's on. A friggin joke. Ban me if you wish. The truth is the TRUTH.
Hey Joe hit the tanning bed again and laugh your a@@ off a all us jokers. You unreal fraud! >>
Questioning the practices of the company or the way Joe runs the place is one thing.... Personal attacks is another. This definitly was uncalled for! >>
agreed, while I feel the psoters pain there really is no reason to rip Joe or his company. Hopefully this will not get the thread poof'ed!
<< <i>i've sent one 86 fleer since the disaster below:
14022200 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 13 SAM BOWIE Card US 14022201 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 30 ALEX ENGLISH Card US 14022202 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 41 DAVE GREENWOOD Card US 14022203 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 37 ARTIS GILMORE Card US 14022204 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1986 FLEER 60 BERNARD KING Card US 14022205 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 68 KARL MALONE Card US 14022206 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 76 JOHNNY MOORE Card US 14022207 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 80 NORM NIXON Card US 14022208 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 86 SAM PERKINS Card US 14022209 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 98 DAN SCHAYES Card US 14022210 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 121 DOMINIQUE WILKINS Card US 14022211 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1986 FLEER 105 RORY SPARROW
i sent this submission around the same time i pulled a jordan from a wax pack (thread is on the board somewhere). the jordan pulled an 8 and after a resub it pulled a 9. granted, i did not see these cards pulled from the pack as it was a set i purchased "less the jordan" and they very well could have been trimeed but i'm doubtful at this point.
best of luck to you leathtech. >>
Yeah, somehow I'm doubtful that there's a trimmer out there shaving down Norm Nixon and Johnny Moore cards
Good Day, I've been here, done this, same cards, same problem, got poofed, got banned. That's why I say Poof !!!!!!! And thats all I'll say. Just keep it in mind and watch what is said!!!!!!! Have a Great day!!! Neil
Actually Collect Non Sport, but am just so full of myself I post all over the place !!!!!!!
and to be honest this thread should not be POOF!, as long as everyone is not being rude and personally attacking people, but seriously we all need to voice our concerns about the very Hobby we enjoy, and i will not give a grader a break, for goodness sake this is not rocket science! the grader should be honest with himself if he cannot make a Judgement call on a certain card, but just dont make the call EOT when for the record we know these cards were pack fresh , unsearched. i think its TIME for PSA to hold a Mandotory weekend session on what EOT's and MSR'S are
<< <i>If you don't mind me asking what was the out come?
joe asked me to send them back to him for review (same as he asked you) and i never did.
i'll double check my CS1s, but i'm pretty sure they are still in the returned CS1 holders with the EOT label. i've thought about resubbing the malone, moore and nique, but haven't. >>
Hey ldferg, checked your eBay listings and you have a very nice Payton RC up for sale.
I have to wait a few days until some money comes in.
<< <i>and to be honest this thread should not be POOF!, as long as everyone is not being rude and personally attacking people, but seriously we all need to voice our concerns about the very Hobby we enjoy, and i will not give a grader a break, for goodness sake this is not rocket science! the grader should be honest with himself if he cannot make a Judgement call on a certain card, but just dont make the call EOT when for the record we know these cards were pack fresh , unsearched. i think its TIME for PSA to hold a Mandotory weekend session on what EOT's and MSR'S are >>
maybe it's time for some folks to send in a video documentation of their busts to at least give themselves a fighting chance (eyes rolling).
I put my eggs in Steve's basket...no doubt. He has alot more to lose than making a few bucks on this box. PSA on the other hand is paying, what, minimum wage to a person grading the cards...and we all make mistakes.
Problem for PSA is now what???? 3 graders allegedly look at the card and make a decison on it...and then they get a call from the president and they now give it what, a PSA-9? Tough situation and I am pissed for you leachtech.
i for one think things may be fishy at that end, not at PSA end....
seems a lot of "problems" over the years come from "unopened" stuff from BBCX....just saying, i wouldnt be so quick to kill PSA...
remember the 75 mini break? not a PSA 8 in the case..... >>
I was a part of the 75 mini break, so I remember it quite well. Besides, who in the heck are you to question Steve, especially considering you just joined CU?
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>Unreal! As the previous owner of the number one 1971 Football set in the PSA registry in 2003 I know quite a bit about their grading standards. I had a 1971 PSA 9 Gale Gillingham card that had what looked like a piece of lettuce on it. I bought it on ebay from 4 sharp corners. I remember bringing it the 2003 National in Atlantic City and showed it to them. They said it was still a 9 because it was a printing defect. WTF? I also showed them a BGS 8.5 2002 Jeremy Shockey Finest Xfractor with a real nice corner ding. They said yeah we'll grade it a 9. They did. All about the money. Their holders suck. Their grading is all over the place. After the national I have never sent them another card. Why everyone mentally masterbates themselves about PSA graded cards is beyond me. Cards moving around in holders. Evidence of trimming on pack fresh openened cards. High volune submitters getting 9's and 10's on cards we would get 8's on. A friggin joke. Ban me if you wish. The truth is the TRUTH.
Hey Joe hit the tanning bed again and laugh your a@@ off a all us jokers. You unreal fraud! >>
Questioning the practices of the company or the way Joe runs the place is one thing.... Personal attacks is another. This definitly was uncalled for! >>
agreed, while I feel the psoters pain there really is no reason to rip Joe or his company. Hopefully this will not get the thread poof'ed! >>
Hey, if this thread gets poofed then you will know the truth. I'm a business man as well. Not as sucessful as big Joe. But, I will tell you one thing everyone can understand. The fish rots from the head down. Again, if we all stop believing then its all over. Do you know how many PSA holders I have put my thumbnail in the side and they popped right open? A lot! The holder was never changed. Then a 1/2 point grading scale! Stop drinking the Kool-Aid. PSA and Joe are not the end all and be all. BGS, SCG and GAI are not aliens trying to abduct you. Everyone has their right to speak or write. Otherwise Why? Why even speak?
As I said. Been a member for a long time. Don't post often. I'll tell ya though this is a freakin' joke.
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
"...somehow I'm doubtful that there's a trimmer out there shaving down Norm Nixon and Johnny Moore cards ..."
///////////////////////////
That is correct.
And, that is one reason that EOT either needs to be FULLY explained or eliminated/replaced by the simple MSR.
I do NOT favor eliminating EOT. I favor PSA restoring my confidence in their grader's KNOWING the difference between EOT and MSR.
.........................
To those beating up on JO, there is not a vote in it.
JO can do nothing to hurt/help me, but he is not conspiring to harm his customers, either.
This controversy springs from either the graders not understanding the policies Or from not being able to tell the difference between EOT and MSR. In either case, it is JO's responsibility to address the issue.......AND, that is what he is going to do.
When somebody in authority tells you they are going to look into something for you, it is usually prudent to give them a fair chance to do that.
It is also important to remember that JO may very well decide, in good faith, that MSR is the correct ruling. Another TPG may have a different opinion.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
"...It is very possible the grader felt that specfic card was EOT, that does not mean it will get EOT everytime it is subbed..."
//////////////////////////////
That is part of why the EOT concept is NOT working right at PSA.
Without saying that I and others should be in the penitentiary, I will say that the chances of me holding a card in my hand and being unable to tell if it has been messed with are right slim.
PSA is obligated to make sure that its graders KNOW what an altered card looks like. There is almost NEVER a reason to "guess" about an inhand card's original status. IF the graders are "guessing" on the EOT/MSR issue, they need to be retrained.
Numerical grades are subjective; more art than science.
Authenticity and originality are PURE science.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
Sure, i am a 86 fleer guy and and some cards have a diffrent FACTORY cut than others as do the stickers, but to say its EOT when in fact it should be labeled MSR is what this is all about, MSR u get a voucher, EOT Means the Grader threw away your money, if they cannot tell the diffrence
i for one think things may be fishy at that end, not at PSA end....
seems a lot of "problems" over the years come from "unopened" stuff from BBCX....just saying, i wouldnt be so quick to kill PSA...
remember the 75 mini break? not a PSA 8 in the case..... >>
caramelcollector New Member
Posts: 9 Joined: Feb 2009
Interesting you are a new member defending PSA you must work for them. What problems over the years are you talking about?? Show proof of this or shut your mouth.
<< <i>Sure, i am a 86 fleer guy and and some cards have a diffrent FACTORY cut than others as do the stickers, but to say its EOT when in fact it should be labeled MSR is what this is all about, MSR u get a voucher, EOT Means the Grader threw away your money, if they cannot tell the diffrence >>
/////////////////////////////////////////////
I do not believe it is a biznez decision; voucher v. no voucher. I cannot prove it, either way.
I can say that if there is ANY element of "biznez decision" in the mix, it needs to be REMOVED immediately.
It would not be worth making the graders appear incompetent just to save on a few vouchers. ANY grader that cannot tell trimmed from not-trimmed with near absolute authority needs to be taught how to do so, or told to move on.
Graders should also be required to cogently explain their findings to the final decision maker. If the explanation is even slightly lacking, the card should get MSRd; not EOTd.
...............
Potential warranty claims are MAJOR considerations at all TPGs. That is a good thing and breeds conservative numerical grading.
That same "conservatism" now needs to flow into the EOT/MSR decision. If the grader cannot make his EOT-case, the conservative decision is MSR. If more vouchers are issued, such is life.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
Comments
EDIT: crap... 101
Joe is NOT a grader.
<< <i>i've sent one 86 fleer since the disaster below:
14022200 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 13 SAM BOWIE Card US
14022201 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 30 ALEX ENGLISH Card US
14022202 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 41 DAVE GREENWOOD Card US
14022203 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 37 ARTIS GILMORE Card US
14022204 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1986 FLEER 60 BERNARD KING Card US
14022205 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 68 KARL MALONE Card US
14022206 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 76 JOHNNY MOORE Card US
14022207 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 80 NORM NIXON Card US
14022208 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 86 SAM PERKINS Card US
14022209 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 98 DAN SCHAYES Card US
14022210 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 121 DOMINIQUE WILKINS Card US
14022211 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1986 FLEER 105 RORY SPARROW
i sent this submission around the same time i pulled a jordan from a wax pack (thread is on the board somewhere). the jordan pulled an 8 and after a resub it pulled a 9. granted, i did not see these cards pulled from the pack as it was a set i purchased "less the jordan" and they very well could have been trimeed but i'm doubtful at this point.
best of luck to you leathtech. >>
WOW! I wonder if PSA has an internal memo out about 1986 Fleer - I can't believe all these cards people have posted are EOT.
Neil
I can see a couple posters going poof.. haha
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
<< <i>joe was very responsive to my emails about the EOT 86s i noted above. >>
If you don't mind me asking what was the out come?
<< <i>Unreal! As the previous owner of the number one 1971 Football set in the PSA registry in 2003 I know quite a bit about their grading standards. I had a 1971 PSA 9 Gale Gillingham card that had what looked like a piece of lettuce on it. I bought it on ebay from 4 sharp corners. I remember bringing it the 2003 National in Atlantic City and showed it to them. They said it was still a 9 because it was a printing defect. WTF? I also showed them a BGS 8.5 2002 Jeremy Shockey Finest Xfractor with a real nice corner ding. They said yeah we'll grade it a 9. They did. All about the money. Their holders suck. Their grading is all over the place. After the national I have never sent them another card. Why everyone mentally masterbates themselves about PSA graded cards is beyond me. Cards moving around in holders. Evidence of trimming on pack fresh openened cards. High volune submitters getting 9's and 10's on cards we would get 8's on. A friggin joke. Ban me if you wish. The truth is the TRUTH.
Hey Joe hit the tanning bed again and laugh your a@@ off a all us jokers. You unreal fraud! >>
Questioning the practices of the company or the way Joe runs the place is one thing.... Personal attacks is another. This definitly was uncalled for!
<< <i>Well I have 13 from my two packs and I am waiting to see how this is resolved. >>
yes I'm worried about my other 15 common cards that are at PSA... I really though all had a good shot at PSA 9 - I was even going to start a PSA 9 registry set!
<< <i>
<< <i>Hey Joe hit the tanning bed again and laugh your a@@ off a all us jokers. You unreal fraud! >>
That's just uncalled for. >>
For a moment I thought you might be right that it was uncalled for. Then I regained my senses and decided it was a little subdued. I should have been more harsh. Everyone has their experiences with PSA or whomever. I have been a member of these boards for a while. Don't post much. But, there are quite a few long time members here that can speak to my integrity. Some of them I have met and dealt with personally. When I see and hear garbage like this I get POED. Why? Because I want to believe. Like you do and Mulder does! You all know what I mean. If we all start to not believe. Oh Boy! The truth is the TRUTH!
joe asked me to send them back to him for review (same as he asked you) and i never did.
i'll double check my CS1s, but i'm pretty sure they are still in the returned CS1 holders with the EOT label. i've thought about resubbing the malone, moore and nique, but haven't.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
<< <i>
<< <i>Unreal! As the previous owner of the number one 1971 Football set in the PSA registry in 2003 I know quite a bit about their grading standards. I had a 1971 PSA 9 Gale Gillingham card that had what looked like a piece of lettuce on it. I bought it on ebay from 4 sharp corners. I remember bringing it the 2003 National in Atlantic City and showed it to them. They said it was still a 9 because it was a printing defect. WTF? I also showed them a BGS 8.5 2002 Jeremy Shockey Finest Xfractor with a real nice corner ding. They said yeah we'll grade it a 9. They did. All about the money. Their holders suck. Their grading is all over the place. After the national I have never sent them another card. Why everyone mentally masterbates themselves about PSA graded cards is beyond me. Cards moving around in holders. Evidence of trimming on pack fresh openened cards. High volune submitters getting 9's and 10's on cards we would get 8's on. A friggin joke. Ban me if you wish. The truth is the TRUTH.
Hey Joe hit the tanning bed again and laugh your a@@ off a all us jokers. You unreal fraud! >>
Questioning the practices of the company or the way Joe runs the place is one thing.... Personal attacks is another. This definitly was uncalled for! >>
agreed, while I feel the psoters pain there really is no reason to rip Joe or his company. Hopefully this will not get the thread poof'ed!
<< <i>i've sent one 86 fleer since the disaster below:
14022200 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 13 SAM BOWIE Card US
14022201 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 30 ALEX ENGLISH Card US
14022202 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 41 DAVE GREENWOOD Card US
14022203 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 37 ARTIS GILMORE Card US
14022204 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1986 FLEER 60 BERNARD KING Card US
14022205 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 68 KARL MALONE Card US
14022206 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 76 JOHNNY MOORE Card US
14022207 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 80 NORM NIXON Card US
14022208 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 86 SAM PERKINS Card US
14022209 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 98 DAN SCHAYES Card US
14022210 N1: EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING 1986 FLEER 121 DOMINIQUE WILKINS Card US
14022211 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1986 FLEER 105 RORY SPARROW
i sent this submission around the same time i pulled a jordan from a wax pack (thread is on the board somewhere). the jordan pulled an 8 and after a resub it pulled a 9. granted, i did not see these cards pulled from the pack as it was a set i purchased "less the jordan" and they very well could have been trimeed but i'm doubtful at this point.
best of luck to you leathtech. >>
Yeah, somehow I'm doubtful that there's a trimmer out there shaving down Norm Nixon and Johnny Moore cards
Tabe
I've been here, done this, same cards, same problem, got poofed, got banned. That's why I say Poof !!!!!!! And thats all I'll say. Just keep it in mind and watch what is said!!!!!!!
Have a Great day!!!
Neil
<< <i>If you don't mind me asking what was the out come?
joe asked me to send them back to him for review (same as he asked you) and i never did.
i'll double check my CS1s, but i'm pretty sure they are still in the returned CS1 holders with the EOT label. i've thought about resubbing the malone, moore and nique, but haven't. >>
Hey ldferg, checked your eBay listings and you have a very nice Payton RC up for sale.
I have to wait a few days until some money comes in.
Hope I get it.
<< <i>WOW! I wonder if PSA has an internal memo out about 1986 Fleer - I can't believe all these cards people have posted are EOT. >>
That's what I was wondering earlier in the thread. Was there a recent bust of trimmed 86 Fleers from somewhere?
<< <i>and to be honest this thread should not be POOF!, as long as everyone is not being rude and personally attacking people, but seriously we all need to voice our concerns about the very Hobby we enjoy, and i will not give a grader a break, for goodness sake this is not rocket science! the grader should be honest with himself if he cannot make a Judgement call on a certain card, but just dont make the call EOT when for the record we know these cards were pack fresh , unsearched. i think its TIME for PSA to hold a Mandotory weekend session on what EOT's and MSR'S are >>
maybe it's time for some folks to send in a video documentation of their busts to at least give themselves a fighting chance (eyes rolling).
i for one think things may be fishy at that end, not at PSA end....
seems a lot of "problems" over the years come from "unopened" stuff from BBCX....just saying, i wouldnt be so quick to kill PSA...
remember the 75 mini break? not a PSA 8 in the case.....
<< <i>who said steve at BBCX is god?
i for one think things may be fishy at that end, not at PSA end....
seems a lot of "problems" over the years come from "unopened" stuff from BBCX....just saying, i wouldnt be so quick to kill PSA...
remember the 75 mini break? not a PSA 8 in the case..... >>
Let me be blunt if Steve is passing any bad pack I will leave the hobby!
<< <i>who said steve at BBCX is god?
i for one think things may be fishy at that end, not at PSA end....
seems a lot of "problems" over the years come from "unopened" stuff from BBCX....just saying, i wouldnt be so quick to kill PSA...
remember the 75 mini break? not a PSA 8 in the case..... >>
Says the guy with 9 posts... and I'm sure you're not a store owner who's trying to ruin BBCE's name. Nice try. Fish somewhere else.
Problem for PSA is now what???? 3 graders allegedly look at the card and make a decison on it...and then they get a call from the president and they now give it what, a PSA-9? Tough situation and I am pissed for you leachtech.
<< <i>who said steve at BBCX is god?
i for one think things may be fishy at that end, not at PSA end....
seems a lot of "problems" over the years come from "unopened" stuff from BBCX....just saying, i wouldnt be so quick to kill PSA...
remember the 75 mini break? not a PSA 8 in the case..... >>
I was a part of the 75 mini break, so I remember it quite well. Besides, who in the heck are you to question Steve, especially considering you just joined CU?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Unreal! As the previous owner of the number one 1971 Football set in the PSA registry in 2003 I know quite a bit about their grading standards. I had a 1971 PSA 9 Gale Gillingham card that had what looked like a piece of lettuce on it. I bought it on ebay from 4 sharp corners. I remember bringing it the 2003 National in Atlantic City and showed it to them. They said it was still a 9 because it was a printing defect. WTF? I also showed them a BGS 8.5 2002 Jeremy Shockey Finest Xfractor with a real nice corner ding. They said yeah we'll grade it a 9. They did. All about the money. Their holders suck. Their grading is all over the place. After the national I have never sent them another card. Why everyone mentally masterbates themselves about PSA graded cards is beyond me. Cards moving around in holders. Evidence of trimming on pack fresh openened cards. High volune submitters getting 9's and 10's on cards we would get 8's on. A friggin joke. Ban me if you wish. The truth is the TRUTH.
Hey Joe hit the tanning bed again and laugh your a@@ off a all us jokers. You unreal fraud! >>
Questioning the practices of the company or the way Joe runs the place is one thing.... Personal attacks is another. This definitly was uncalled for! >>
agreed, while I feel the psoters pain there really is no reason to rip Joe or his company. Hopefully this will not get the thread poof'ed! >>
Hey, if this thread gets poofed then you will know the truth. I'm a business man as well. Not as sucessful as big Joe. But, I will tell you one thing everyone can understand. The fish rots from the head down. Again, if we all stop believing then its all over. Do you know how many PSA holders I have put my thumbnail in the side and they popped right open? A lot! The holder was never changed. Then a 1/2 point grading scale! Stop drinking the Kool-Aid. PSA and Joe are not the end all and be all. BGS, SCG and GAI are not aliens trying to abduct you. Everyone has their right to speak or write. Otherwise Why? Why even speak?
As I said. Been a member for a long time. Don't post often. I'll tell ya though this is a freakin' joke.
how do you remember the 75 mini break.. just curious..
I think steve is a good guy and one of the few trustworthy people in the hobby
<< <i>In before lock................. >>
HAHAHAHAHA
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
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That is correct.
And, that is one reason that EOT either needs to be FULLY
explained or eliminated/replaced by the simple MSR.
I do NOT favor eliminating EOT. I favor PSA restoring my
confidence in their grader's KNOWING the difference between
EOT and MSR.
.........................
To those beating up on JO, there is not a vote in it.
JO can do nothing to hurt/help me, but he is not conspiring
to harm his customers, either.
This controversy springs from either the graders not understanding
the policies Or from not being able to tell the difference between
EOT and MSR. In either case, it is JO's responsibility to address the
issue.......AND, that is what he is going to do.
When somebody in authority tells you they are going to look into
something for you, it is usually prudent to give them a fair chance
to do that.
It is also important to remember that JO may very well decide, in
good faith, that MSR is the correct ruling. Another TPG may have
a different opinion.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
She said the card has already been looked at by 3 graders and if I send it in again it will get the same EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING.
Really? I had 5 EOT 1953 Topps cards that I knew were not trimmed and were holdered the following time I subbed them.
It is very possible the grader felt that specfic card was EOT, that does not mean it will get EOT everytime it is subbed.
Steve
<< <i>She said the card has already been looked at by 3 graders and if I send it in again it will get the same EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING.
Really? I had 5 EOT 1953 Topps cards that I knew were not trimmed and were holdered the following time I subbed them.
It is very possible the grader felt that specfic card was EOT, that does not mean it will get EOT everytime it is subbed.
Steve >>
very true, but what sucks in this scenario is that the submitter is out one round of grading fees.
For those of us who don't submit several thousand cards a year, being out a few grading fees is pretty bad.
As people have stated before in the thread, MSR at least gives the submitter a vaucher for another sub.
<< <i>Am I the only one that gets smarter just by keeping up with storm's posts? >>
Nope.
CDsNuts, 1/9/15
i hope every thing works out for you,
and i hope Joe starts craking some skulls over there and straighten them guys out.
good luck
looking for PELLE LINDBERGH's psa and 1960 fleer baseball psa 8 and up
sets in progress
R.I.P. Barstow 24 April 1999 - May 15 2009
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That is part of why the EOT concept is NOT working right at PSA.
Without saying that I and others should be in the penitentiary,
I will say that the chances of me holding a card in my hand and
being unable to tell if it has been messed with are right slim.
PSA is obligated to make sure that its graders KNOW what an
altered card looks like. There is almost NEVER a reason to "guess"
about an inhand card's original status. IF the graders are "guessing"
on the EOT/MSR issue, they need to be retrained.
Numerical grades are subjective; more art than science.
Authenticity and originality are PURE science.
come back..
EOT
MSR
PSA 6
EOT
don't think it was trimmed.. stacked up with other 62's.. and way better then a 6..
maybe it was an 8 pd.. the card is know for its pd's
<< <i>who said steve at BBCX is god?
i for one think things may be fishy at that end, not at PSA end....
seems a lot of "problems" over the years come from "unopened" stuff from BBCX....just saying, i wouldnt be so quick to kill PSA...
remember the 75 mini break? not a PSA 8 in the case..... >>
caramelcollector
New Member
Posts: 9
Joined: Feb 2009
Interesting you are a new member defending PSA you must work for them. What problems over the years are you talking about?? Show proof of this or shut your mouth.
Lets not act like children here
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
<< <i>Sure, i am a 86 fleer guy and and some cards have a diffrent FACTORY cut than others as do the stickers, but to say its EOT when in fact it should be labeled MSR is what this is all about, MSR u get a voucher, EOT Means the Grader threw away your money, if they cannot tell the diffrence >>
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I do not believe it is a biznez decision; voucher v. no voucher.
I cannot prove it, either way.
I can say that if there is ANY element of "biznez decision" in
the mix, it needs to be REMOVED immediately.
It would not be worth making the graders appear incompetent
just to save on a few vouchers. ANY grader that cannot tell
trimmed from not-trimmed with near absolute authority needs
to be taught how to do so, or told to move on.
Graders should also be required to cogently explain their findings
to the final decision maker. If the explanation is even slightly
lacking, the card should get MSRd; not EOTd.
...............
Potential warranty claims are MAJOR considerations at all TPGs.
That is a good thing and breeds conservative numerical grading.
That same "conservatism" now needs to flow into the EOT/MSR
decision. If the grader cannot make his EOT-case, the conservative
decision is MSR. If more vouchers are issued, such is life.