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Thinking about buying a safe - any suggestions on size, brand, etc.?
Geoman
Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭
Are gun safes a good way to go? Also, any suggestion on what weight to get so no one can walk off with it? Thanks!
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--Jerry
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
If it's anything else like silver or copper you want to make sure you have some kind of humidity control. A Jewelers safe or TL-30 I think avoids the moisture issues most generic safes have but they cost nearly 5X.
Insurance will not insure your coins if the safe is in the garage.
<< <i>No safe is "safe". >>
Although I think it's safe to say that having a safe is a lot safer than not having a safe.
Second question: how frequently do you breathe?
Third question: do you like dark quiet places?
Labels Use On Burglary Safes.
These safes are designed to protect your valuables. Burglary safes are rated on how long they will be able to withstand an attack using power tools and in some cases cutting torches and high explosives.
B rate - simply means your safe is equipped with a combination lock and some type of external relocking device.
Both door and body are 1/2 inch steel. Most are small safes that can be easily carried off if not bolted down.
It is not recommend that valuables be left in these safes over night.
C rate - a safe with a door 1 inch thick door and body 1/2 inch thick.
E rate - a safe with a 1 1/2 inch thick door and a 1 inch thick body.
TL 15 - a safe that must weigh at least 750 pounds and resist expert attack using power tools for a net working time of 15 minutes.
TL 30 - a safe that must weigh at least 750 pounds and resist expert attack using power tools for a net working time of 30 minutes.
TRTL 15 / TRTL 30 - same as above but also must resist expert attack by a cutting torch during the attack.
TRTL60 - a safe that must weigh at least 750 pounds and be able to resist expert attack by both power tools and cutting torch for a net working time of 60 minutes.
TXTL60 - a safe that must weigh at least 1000 pounds and resist expert attack by power tools , cutting torches and high explosives for a net working time of 60 minutes.
Net Working Time: The actual time working. It does not include the time required to change worn out or broken drill bits and saw blades, replace drill motors to hot to handle or any other of the many things that takes place during these test.
Composite Body Safes.
These are becoming the most widely use class of safe used in business today as they offer both fire and burglary protection.
With the TL15 , TL30 and TRTL 30 being the most popular. There is also another rating this style safe can be found in. It is known as the X6 (ie. TRTL30X6). This simply means that any barrier that can be found in the door to resist attack can also be found in the top, bottom and sides offering even more protection for your valuables.
NEVER BUY ANY SAFE WITH A RATING LESS THAN TRTL-30x6 !!!!!
How big? ... As big as you can afford/find. There is always more "stuff" you will want to put in it.
Now for a secret..... how to buy one affordably..... [ I know, I know.... a relitive term..].
Right now, all across the country, jewlery shops are folding like cheap kites in a cat.5 storm.
Get out your yellow pages and check lock and safe shops. Many are OVER stocked with used safes. [ mostly junk ].
Ask them if they have any TRTL 30 x 6 or better safes. If so..... take a little time and go take a look.
Don't worry about the brand ....... ratings are everything when it comes to a good safe.
2 questions to ask before you say "I'll take it".
1 ..... Has the safe been thru a fire? If so ...... PASS. Safes are only good for 1 real fire.
2 .... Has the safe ever been compromised? Drilled or cut and repaired? If so ...... PASS.
Right now .... depending on your area ...... you should be able to get a $10,000 [new] safe DELIVERED for $2.5 to $3k.
It might take a while to find one that fits your needs..... and then again .... it might be waiting for you now!
********************
Silver is the mortar that binds the bricks of loyalty.
With the number of businesses going under during this "recession" you might luck up
<< <i>The problem with a home safe is that most people can be persuaded to open it for the bad guys. Safety deposit boxes are the only way to go. >>
This is true to a point but if I had an expensive coin at home even for a few days a small TL-30 safe is not a bad thing.
If you are forced to open it just keep a few things like passports and tell the bloke that you have nothing of monetary value, just important papers you don't want burned.
Boom...we win.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
The gun safe was $800 at Costco and the little safe is an oldy.
When I was installing it I imagined the look on the thief when they finally broke the gun safe open and found another safe that is almost impossible to get any leverage, or tools on. I do have a couple of high end rifles though.
Yes, if you have a safe of ANY type all it takes is a gun to your head and you will open anything on the premises. I agree on this point.
BUT . . . if you are looking for something really unique and tough? Try an old ATM safe. Here in SLC there is a company that sells reconditioned ATM safes (TL30s) for about a grand or so. They come delivered on a flatbed semi, weigh around 2000#, and have a combo lock. They are from out-of-date ATMs. If they can hold 50k cash on a streetcorner, they can hold your 1972 Mint Set.
I bought one for use around home. Delivered to the garage due to weight (cement floor) . . . but I realize the advantages / disadvantages of having it here. I just keep stuff I want for a few weeks . . . most in in a safety deposit box at the credit union . . .
Drunner
The last two posters of the other thread (linked above) made some great points, as did a few posters here. Still a few important pieces are missing.
As with many endeavors, diversity and backup plans are the best solution. A decoy safe is essential. The decoy safe is also very functional. Safety deposit boxes are ok for those values you want the government to know about, but realize the US government has already appropriated all gold held in those boxes once before.
The decoy safe must hold enough contents to satisfy the thief of a solid ‘hit’, so they move on elsewhere. For function, keep you Important Papers in the decoy safe. Thieves will go through the papers, so be sure to keep all bonds in a separate envelope – the thief will take that envelope and only look for the will. The will and codicil, if they reference precious metals, coin or jewelry, should also state that such remain at the safe deposit box – to be opened by executor (the safe deposit box can contain direction to where the coins are actually stored). Important: triple bag your papers in ziplock baggies.
If possible, keep the safe on cement (bolted from below). Even bolted safes can be removed if the perp has enough time. Sometimes they pull the safe out of the ground with a winch or pulling off the foundation with a vehicle.
Another reason why placing the safe on cement is better than on a wooden floor is that in case of fire the safe may collapse through the floor. IF there is a fire, and you are around, direct the firefighters to keep a dedicated stream directly on the safe. Water may enter the safe but the triple-ziploc will defend against water. Those that do emergency response and disaster relief know that water destroys much more than does fire or smoke.
Something else not mentioned prevously are the round vertical safes that are placed into the ground with cement poured around. These are very handy and can be very well camouflaged as a water well, sewer cleanout, standpipe, etc. They can also be covered with false floors. They are also more difficult to crack/blow than the box safes. These run about $700 used for a 8inch by 3 foot unit.
The majority of valuables should not be kept in a safe, but hidden/stashed. Burial is an extremely effective method for items that are 30-year money. For those items you require immediate access, store in metal boxes. Now hide the metal box in an electrical box, conduit, appliance, etc. There are some fake electric boxes made just for this purpose. You can hide a large volume of items in a freezer (easy to stash 10K in gold in a tupperware of frozen lasagna - who will steal that?).
The beauty of using metal boxes in appliances and utility junctions is that a thief with a Schonstedt wand or metal detector may not find these when screening your home. They will, however, find your stash in the mattress, walls, stuffed animals, dummy coke cans and books, etc. So, practice using your metal detector to find your own stash; try to make that signal appear just like all the other electric boxes/panels in the property.
This same technique will also work well in the garage and shed. A metal box with coins that has a small shelf full of nails and screws, stashed amongst 100 more boxes of nails and screws, will take a long time to thoroughly investigate. Most thieves are under time pressure and will take the quick score of a nice prize over a loooong search for every silver dime.
Finally, another note on safe deposit boxes. Our bank (one of the large national bankrupt chains) wants 20$/month or similar (yes, we could ‘upgrade’ and keep more cash in their bankrupt institution for a cheaper box rate). But, for an extra $75-100/month you can rent a 10x10 storage unit at a self storage rental unit. You can fit (and hide/divert/camouflage)e a lot of goodies in 100sq.ft.
fwiw
Nice carpet
If you need a safe, you also need a central alarm system. There is no safe made that is impenetrable. The most amateur burglars, even first-timers, can breach a gun safe in short order. Climate control is also a big issue, though there are remedies for humidity build up. Best to get a safe with a TL rating or better. The best deals are used ones and can be found all over the place. Just need to get it moved and installed. The alarm system is critical though. If you have a TL30, it is rated for 30 minutes of tooling. You want the cops there within 15 minutes then. An alarm system is best if it uses a dedicated cellular line too as burglars know to cut phone lines to disable other alarm systems. Put signs in your yars warning theives you have a central alarm system? Just tells them what they need to get past it and that there might be something worth breaking in for.
Insurance is cheaper when coins are kept in bank vaults too. Home safes are not the most practical solution for coin security.
edited to add>> To aswer your question though, among the the currently available new safes on the market, consider the AMSEC AMVAULT line.
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A friend of mine was looking for a "creative" way to store a 100 oz Silver bar & ended up placing it in the toilet tank / reservoir..
Gotta admit, that would be the Last place a theif would think to look. ha
<< <i>Added suggestion:
A friend of mine was looking for a "creative" way to store a 100 oz Silver bar & ended up placing it in the toilet tank / reservoir..
Gotta admit, that would be the Last place a theif would think to look. ha >>
Don’t Hide Money In The Toilet: More Conversation With A Burglar
As the conversation continued, the former burglar mentioned “bonus places” he sometimes found money. These were places that he always looked that an average homeowner might consider a good place to hide money, but it wasn’t money that he was after. If there happened to be money there, however, it was a nice, unexpected bonus.
Toilets: While this might seem like an unlikely place for a burglar to look, in the toilet bowl tank (as well as all the area round the toilet) is one place that he always took the time to look: “In and around the toilet is where a lot of people hide their drugs. The tank seems an especially popular place, but I will also search boxes of tampons, toilet paper rolls, potpourri… If it is in the vicinity of the toilet and looks like drugs could be hidden there, I would look.”
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
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I'll pass along that link to him....
ps. The "Skid Mark Safe" LOL But what if the burglar is a panty sniffer... ewww
You don't want the seller of the safe to know who you are. Or people hanging around the store when you buy it. Or all the people who you talk to about buying a safe when you're shopping around. You don't want the $10/hr delivery drivers to know you have a safe. You don't want a carpenter to know you need a false floor, etc. You don't want your neighbors seeing you move the safe into your house. Even if you get around all that, and get friends or family to help you install it, they might run their mouths because safes are exciting. If you're not extremely careful, you greatly increase your chance of having an armed robbery in your home by buying a real safe.
Call me a puss, but at the end of the day, insurance and safe deposit boxes are the way to go.
<< <i>Added suggestion:
A friend of mine was looking for a "creative" way to store a 100 oz Silver bar & ended up placing it in the toilet tank / reservoir..
Gotta admit, that would be the Last place a theif would think to look. ha >>
This reminded me of a humorous (although not at the time) story.
Many years ago, my wife read about "safe" places to hide money in the house. One of the ideas (if you had kid(s) in diapers) was to take a disposable diaper, fill it with cash, and roll it up like it was dirty and toss it under the crib. Pretty good idea as I don't think many burglars would be into checking out used diapers.
Long story short, a niece who was staying with us decided to clean the baby's room and tossed the diaper that had $700 in it. Million to one shot that we realized it had been tossed before the trash truck came that week. I had the wonderful task of going through tons of poopy diapers in the 105 degree heat of southern Utah looking for cash in a diaper.
We no longer stored cash in that manner.........
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
However, I do keep coins at home from time to time. Never more than a box or two. These two boxes are very well hidden - a burglar would not find them in less than an hour.
And I do have what I call the "honey pot" - in a lockable file cabinet, that I rarely lock, are three or four boxes of relatively inexpensive coins. Some are pretty flashy and might look expensive but aren't. In the end, well under $1000 in value. But a burglar would probably think they hit the jackpot. My wife knows where they are so if we are ever held at gunpoint, either of us can point them out.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
<< <i>Here is the one we installed when we built our house....
The carpeting is a nice touch too!
Clearly.
Knock on wood haven't had a breakin in my life yet of almost 60 years. If I was really paranoid I'd own a couple of big dogs and keep them slightly hungry most of the time.
<< <i>I have heard that one of the best places to hide money is in the walls...drywalled in. It sucks to get to, but it assures you that a theif won't look there. If it is coinage, you have to hide it near an electrical outlet, because advanced theives will actually bring metal detectors (seriously) so you have to put it near something metal. This is all considering that you are not worried about a fire. >>
I know from a former coworker that a lot of the Filipino and Vietnamese immigrants here don't trust banks and keep their money in the walls sometimes. The youth gangs in their communities know this and bust up their houses staling the loot.
As for that vault photo a few posts up, that would be a royal pain to replace the carpet. It is a better idea (for security too) to have a solid metal threshold at the vault door.
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<< <i>Here is the one we installed when we built our house....
Shouldn't the wall have holes for the steel shafts to go into...
I call that paranoia to the third degree.... Cheers, RickO