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is shipping charges a rip off with PCGS like w/ NGC?

I bought a membership last year and never submitted the first 5 free coins until month 11, a week ago today. I totally understand I have to pay for shipping to and from, but 21.80 is a lot; especially when the shipping of the same coins with registered and ins cost 7.19. My next membership will be w/ PCGS. Does PCGS charge excesive shipping as well?
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  • CoinJunkieCoinJunkie Posts: 8,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Shipping charges will be comparable. Registered mail costs what it costs.

  • All depends on number of coins and declared value.
  • DoogyDoogy Posts: 4,508
    A lot worse actually. NGC will actually ship lots together, PCGS won't

  • ebaytraderebaytrader Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭


    << <i>especially when the shipping of the same coins with registered and ins cost 7.19 >>





    Such a Deal!
  • 19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,492 ✭✭✭✭
    When the span is in the thousands for 1-5 or 6-10 coins, I think the shipping is reasonable.

    image

    Considering that they DO have a Shipping and Receiving department that must be paid for, I can;t fault these registered mail prices at all!
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
  • mrpotatoheaddmrpotatoheadd Posts: 7,576 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I totally understand I have to pay for shipping to and from, but 21.80 is a lot; especially when the shipping of the same coins with registered and ins cost 7.19. >>

    I think it's a mistake to compare "shipping cost" to "postage cost" as though they were the same thing.

    Suppose PCGS/NGC didn't accept or send out stuff through the mail, and that the only way to submit coins was by dropping them off in person. They'd likely not need to rent as much office space as they do now, since no shipping department would be required. They'd also need to purchase less equipment and supplies and would probably not need to employ as many people as they do now, either.

    All those costs have to be accounted for, which is why "shipping" doesn't equal "postage". Whether or not you're being "ripped off" would depend on how those costs relate to the amount over and above the cost of postage you're being charged.
  • MadMartyMadMarty Posts: 16,697 ✭✭✭


    << <i>shipping of the same coins with registered and ins cost 7.19 >>



    I thought registered shipping alone was like $9!
    It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!



  • << <i>Such a Deal! >>



    Well I live in the same state and it was 7 coins total.
  • BECOKABECOKA Posts: 16,961 ✭✭✭
    Registered is close to $10 not including shipping costs.

    How the H*ll did you get everything for $7.19?
  • lee,
    That's about the same, a it more. I had a total of 7 coins a 250 and was charged 21.80......oh shux.
  • ebaytraderebaytrader Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Registered is close to $10 not including shipping costs.

    How the H*ll did you get everything for $7.19? >>




    He didn't.
  • mrpotatoheaddmrpotatoheadd Posts: 7,576 ✭✭✭
    The fee for a registered shipment with no insurance is $10.00, in addition to the postage required for the shipment. The absolute lowest cost for a registered shipment would be $10.42- an envelope under one ounce sent first class with a value of zero declared for the contents.


  • << <i>Registered is close to $10 not including shipping costs.

    How the H*ll did you get everything for $7.19? >>




    No idea. My wife takes care of shipping from work. Maybe business to business is discounted and being in the same state....well. Also when sending registered mail it's automatically ins 250, so she says. And yes I've heard this before as being in fine fine print and something USPS doesn't like to mention.
  • notwilightnotwilight Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Registered is close to $10 not including shipping costs.

    How the H*ll did you get everything for $7.19? >>




    No idea. My wife takes care of shipping from work. Maybe business to business is discounted and being in the same state....well. Also when sending registered mail it's automatically ins 250, so she says. And yes I've heard this before as being in fine fine print and something USPS doesn't like to mention. >>



    So you've got someone who works for free mailing your items on company time (being paid by someone else). PCGS and NGC neither have that luxury...they have to pay their shipping agents. Imagine that. --jerry


  • << <i>So you've got someone who works for free mailing your items on company time (being paid by someone else). PCGS and NGC neither have that luxury...they have to pay their shipping agents. Imagine that. --jerry >>



    Wait a seccond, Jerry. There is nothing "free" about my wife or just about any wife!
  • mrpotatoheaddmrpotatoheadd Posts: 7,576 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Also when sending registered mail it's automatically ins 250, so she says. >>

    That's not actually true. From the USPS website:

    2.1 Registered Mail Fees

    Fees and charges are in addition to postage:

    Declared Value - Fee (in addition to postage)
    $0.00 - $10.00
    $0.01 to $100 - $10.80
    $100.01 to $500 - $12.10
    ...


    The rest of the table (above) is not included here- just enough to show that there isn't automatic $250 insurance coverage.
  • notwilightnotwilight Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>So you've got someone who works for free mailing your items on company time (being paid by someone else). PCGS and NGC neither have that luxury...they have to pay their shipping agents. Imagine that. --jerry >>



    Wait a seccond, Jerry. There is nothing "free" about my wife or just about any wife! >>



    Correct, so your actual shipping costs are much higher than PCGS and NGCs if you figure it that way.

  • BoomBoom Posts: 10,165
    I may or may not be understanding the question posed however I've recently wondered about what
    happens to the excess S/H charges we pre-pay when 1) coins grade lower than we think they do or
    2) when the total insured value on the RETURN is not as expected!

    Given all is pre-paid, what becomes of the excess we pay and the coins are shipped back "worth"
    substantially less?

    I have never received a credit or a refund for over-payment on Return S/H charged to my card.

    Zeke, is this sorta what you are asking? I ask because lately, as I go through past submissions,
    I see that I overpaid many times over and have NEVER received a refund, rebate or credit!

    What becomes of the excess S/H (pre-paid) and why isn't it refunded to the submitter?

    Thanks.
  • GrumpyEdGrumpyEd Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭
    It sounds like if you got it shipped for $7.19 she shipped it "first class insured"

    To ship it "registered first class with insurance" will cost about $20 depending on the declared value.

    Always keep the reciept, without it the insurance is meaningless.

    To ship it registered you must seal it in brown special tape and they stamp it on every seam so nobody can tamper with the seal and it gets signed for at every step in shipping. It also takes longer to get delivered.
    Ed
  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 13,145 ✭✭✭✭✭
    One thing to keep in mind, it that NGC grading fees are discounted 10% if you complete the form online. That more than makes up for the higher S&H fees charged by NGC. Also, economy at NGC is still $16 per coin, whereas it is $18 per coin at PCGS.
  • FrankcoinsFrankcoins Posts: 4,572 ✭✭✭
    I have never been able to find people who will work in the shipping department for free....
    Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
  • GandyjaiGandyjai Posts: 1,380 ✭✭
    Save up your submission coins and then take them to a big show and submit them there.
    You will save the "Going to" charge ($20+)...Makes things a little better.

    Brian

    I Love image Variety & Error Ikes! image
  • It is what it is...if you don't like paying it, then don't submit.
    "Everyday above ground is a good day"

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,468 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I may or may not be understanding the question posed however I've recently wondered about what
    happens to the excess S/H charges we pre-pay when 1) coins grade lower than we think they do or
    2) when the total insured value on the RETURN is not as expected!

    Given all is pre-paid, what becomes of the excess we pay and the coins are shipped back "worth"
    substantially less?

    I have never received a credit or a refund for over-payment on Return S/H charged to my card.

    Zeke, is this sorta what you are asking? I ask because lately, as I go through past submissions,
    I see that I overpaid many times over and have NEVER received a refund, rebate or credit!

    What becomes of the excess S/H (pre-paid) and why isn't it refunded to the submitter?


    Thanks. >>



    When you submit a coin with a declared value of $1,000, that coin is returned to you insured for $1,000 whether it goes back to you in a bodybag or a holder? Why do you think that PCGS would set an arbitrary value less than your declared value just because the coin didn't grade as you thought it might?
    theknowitalltroll;
  • BoomBoom Posts: 10,165


    << <i>When you submit a coin with a declared value of $1,000, that coin is returned to you insured for $1,000 whether it goes back to you in a bodybag or a holder? Why do you think that PCGS would set an arbitrary value less than your declared value just because the coin didn't grade as you thought it might? >>



    You could have stopped after the first sentence.

    In cases when a coin or group of coins come back graded significantly lower
    they then have the Price Guide, auction results and greysheet to go by.

    Don't be facetious.

    Thank you.
  • YaHaYaHa Posts: 4,220
    This thread sux. Plain and simple, now we are complaining about a TPG shipping costs. Blame the idiots that steal coins, make $40 a hour to transit your packages and finally blame yourself for being a coin collector.

    I just don't get, people want top grades, they want the best coins and then they turn around and gripe about NGC vs PCGS shipping fees.

    Well I will tell you this! I think people that pay .99 for a double cheeeeze booger at Mickey D' are paying .98 too much, you know why because a pound of dog food is only .1 cent so who's screwing who.

    :Ripping off: is slang for buyer has no idea about why he woke up that morning.image
  • BoomBoom Posts: 10,165
  • YaHaYaHa Posts: 4,220


    << <i>Submit a lot of coins, Yaha?image >>



    Yes I do, mainly to NGC and ICG. I know it's not cheap, but why the freaking complaining. I just paid $5.95 for a $14.99 NGC 70 Statehood quarter New Mexico, received today in a bubble with a $1.34 postage on it. So I bend over and take it hard, but again, the insurance at the TPG make up the most $$$ in my opinion. Again that is what we must pay.

    Sorry if you disagree.
  • BoomBoom Posts: 10,165
    I'm not complaining at all. I think PCGS does a fine job.

    I'm just curious and asked a valid question.

    I don't either 3rd party Grading Service is ripping anyone off. Period!image

    They ALL do what they're paid to do - provide a "service"!
  • YaHaYaHa Posts: 4,220


    << <i>I'm not complaining at all. I think PCGS does a fine job.

    I'm just curious and asked a valid question.

    I don't either 3rd party Grading Service is ripping anyone off. Period!image

    They ALL do what they're paid to do - provide a "service"! >>




    Boom, I sorry didn't mean you were complaining just the thread writer. Your question was very valid and as always I type fast with bad grammar and leave my opinions open for negativity. Sorry BOOMEr.image
  • AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,370 ✭✭✭✭
    Whenever I have NGC send me coins, I give them my Fed Ex account and have them send it that way. At least I only have to pay what Fed Ex charges ME, and not their insane prices. Heritage shipping prices are completely nuts.
    All coins kept in bank vaults.
    PCGS Registries
    Box of 20
    SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,468 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>When you submit a coin with a declared value of $1,000, that coin is returned to you insured for $1,000 whether it goes back to you in a bodybag or a holder? Why do you think that PCGS would set an arbitrary value less than your declared value just because the coin didn't grade as you thought it might? >>



    You could have stopped after the first sentence.

    In cases when a coin or group of coins come back graded significantly lower
    they then have the Price Guide, auction results and greysheet to go by.

    Don't be facetious.

    Thank you. >>



    If you read the form they ask you to declare a value for return insurance purposes. Why do you think they would take someone's time to revalue your coins just to save a lousy couple bux? It would cost them more to do it than they would make by doing it.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • BoomBoom Posts: 10,165
    Grading is what determines a coin's "Value"!

    When grading is completed there is no longer an unknown.

    What then is at hand is a PCGS coin with a fair Market Value.

    edit for spelling corrections!
  • notwilightnotwilight Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭
    One grade can make a big value in coin value. They should have a box to check "insure for price guide value". --Jerry
  • BoomBoom Posts: 10,165


    << <i>One grade can make a big value in coin value. They should have a box to check "insure for price guide value". --Jerry >>



    Bingo! Thank you Jerry!image
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,468 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>One grade can make a big value in coin value. They should have a box to check "insure for price guide value". --Jerry >>



    Shipping is predetermined and prepaid. They aren't going to piss around re-invoicing you several times on one measly submission. If they were to use the price guide a lot of your economy level fees might get bumped up to regular service level, then folks would really have something to piss and moan about. From a practical standpoint with registered mail there isn't a big difference insurancewise between a $3K shipment and a $4K shipment.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • BoomBoom Posts: 10,165
    Ok, Bajjer - whatever you say!

    Whatever!

    image
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,468 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Read the terms on the form; S & H based on number of coins and total declared value................... tdv is determined by YOU and not PCGS. If you bought a $1000 coin and PCGS BB'd it and returned it insured for $50 and it got lost you would be SOL for the $950.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • BoomBoom Posts: 10,165


    Going "in" is one thing but coming "out" with KNOWN Market Values .... WOAH!

    OK, let's assume 10 coins are sent in for grading. I place a "value" on them at $100. PCGS bills me in advance & I pay.

    Of this group, should by chance I "MAKE" coins worth MORE than I valued them at AFTER grading & PCGS ships them AFTER
    making the grades available to me - What are they gonna do? They gonna bill me again for what they NOW are worth or at
    the "value" I initially placed on them?

    I think we BOTH know the answer - now don't we!? Will the "value" I placed on them hamper grading and prevent the coins
    from being graded AS THEY SHOULD BE? What happens then? image
  • Registered mail isn't cheap to begin with, and when PCGS ships coins back to you it costs them labor costs as well as materials used to ship the package. With those considerations it appears that both PCGS and NGC charges reasonable fees for shipping.
  • TavernTreasuresTavernTreasures Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭
    If an Ebay seller charged that kind of money, that the OP states was charged. A lot of posters here would be ripping that seller apart.
    Advanced collector of BREWERIANA. Early beer advertising (beer cans, tap knobs, foam scrapers, trays, tin signs, lithos, paper, etc)....My first love...U.S. COINS!
  • FatManFatMan Posts: 8,977
    The TPGs have to charge a lot for shipping. Give them a break for goodness sakes. After all, at 5-10 seconds to grade a coin it takes a lot more time to ship them than to grade them.image
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,468 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Going "in" is one thing but coming "out" with KNOWN Market Values .... WOAH!

    OK, let's assume 10 coins are sent in for grading. I place a "value" on them at $100. PCGS bills me in advance & I pay.

    Of this group, should by chance I "MAKE" coins worth MORE than I valued them at AFTER grading & PCGS ships them AFTER
    making the grades available to me - What are they gonna do? They gonna bill me again for what they NOW are worth or at
    the "value" I initially placed on them?

    I think we BOTH know the answer - now don't we!? Will the "value" I placed on them hamper grading and prevent the coins
    from being graded AS THEY SHOULD BE? What happens then? image >>



    You still don't get it. The graders have no clue as to what you declared for a value. The value is for insurance purposes, not marketing purposes. If you buy a coin for $1,000 and it bodybags or grades below the grade you expected, it likely will have lower market value. BUT the fact remains that you still have $1,000 in the coin even tho you might not be able to get that for it in its new holder. So if it gets lost while being returned to you, you will get your $1,000 from the USPS because you have your receipt to prove what you paid. What if you have a killer toner that grades ms65 and is $160 in the price guide and $1100 in the market. Do you still want PCGS to return it insured for $160? Is PCGS going to be the sole determinator of toning premium in this case? In the event of loss you have to prove value which will generally be what you paid for the thing. Also the coins belong to you and not to PCGS; they are simply temporary custodians while the coins are being graded.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,701 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bajj, you've made it very clear on "value" vs. "shipping costs". The submitter determines the value and pays appropriate shipping costs based on a pre-determined scale.
    The original question is basing costs of shipping as a determining factor on who grades the coin or who will get the business.
    I personally am concerned with the protection and accurate assessment of the coin being graded, so shipping charges are an incidental to me. A couple of dollars doesn't matter if the coin isn't all there and the plastic doesn't matter if the coin isn't desired by someone else, in the event one decides to sell.
  • notwilightnotwilight Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭
    Bajjerfan,
    Suppose you have a coin that you think is a 65 shot 66. In 65 it is a $500 coin. In 66 it is a $25000 coin. What do you declare as it's value? --Jerry
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,701 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Tell ya what I'd do Jerry... I'd send it to CAC first image
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,468 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Bajjerfan,
    Suppose you have a coin that you think is a 65 shot 66. In 65 it is a $500 coin. In 66 it is a $25000 coin. What do you declare as it's value? --Jerry >>



    Well if you paid $500 for it and the USPS lost it, then your realized loss per the USPS is likely to be $500 at least for insurance purposes. If twas me I'd get an opinion from the USPS on what they would do if it came back a 66 and it was insured for $25K. You can't mail me a penny, insure it for $50 and expect the USPS to give you $50 if they lose it.

    If you sent it to PCGS and declared the value as $25K and it got lost, you would have a helluva time collecting $25K from the USPS, but its pretty likely the coin wouldn't get lost. OTOH if PCGS gave it a 66 and it got lost on the way back, you still might have a hard time collecting $25K from the USPS. I'd do my homework first and see how others have fared in similar situations.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • notwilightnotwilight Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Bajjerfan,
    Suppose you have a coin that you think is a 65 shot 66. In 65 it is a $500 coin. In 66 it is a $25000 coin. What do you declare as it's value? --Jerry >>



    Well if you paid $500 for it and the USPS lost it, then your realized loss per the USPS is likely to be $500 at least for insurance purposes. If twas me I'd get an opinion from the USPS on what they would do if it came back a 66 and it was insured for $25K. You can't mail me a penny, insure it for $50 and expect the USPS to give you $50 if they lose it.

    If you sent it to PCGS and declared the value as $25K and it got lost, you would have a helluva time collecting $25K from the USPS, but its pretty likely the coin wouldn't get lost. OTOH if PCGS gave it a 66 and it got lost on the way back, you still might have a hard time collecting $25K from the USPS. I'd do my homework first and see how others have fared in similar situations. >>



    Suppose you've owned it so long that original purchase price is irrelevant...

    I think the USPS isn't likely to lose anything. I never know what to declare as a value. Declaring $500 seems pessimistic, Declaraing $25,000 is probably a waste of money on shipping fees.

    Not the worlds greatest unsolved problem but one I ponder occaionally. --jerry
  • BoomBoom Posts: 10,165
    I understand perfectly that this is much to do about Nothing!

    I didn't create this thread. I am not insulting PCGS. I am not insinuating, implying or asking
    anything other than my original question.

    At one point I even told you "whatever, Bajjer" but you insist on harping on the subject!

    I have no beef with PCGS. As a matter of fact I am totally satisfied with PCGS in every way but
    since this subject HAS been brought up it's occurred to me that many people, many times over,
    over pay for return S/H.

    Sending raw coins in for grading, valued realistically, is one thing however, my "value" or not,
    once coins are graded, now have a different "real world" Fair Market Value determined by auction
    results. In such cases many people will have overpaid for return S/H on PCGS certified coins
    assigned grades lower than expected.

    Given we pre-pay, will PCGS re-bill a submitter IF one is fortunate enough to now have coins grade
    higher than expected? If the answer is yes, the submitter's "Value" then is no longer a factor and a
    new value now comes into play. If they DO NOT and something happens - what then?

    Turn it over and re-think MY question.

    If they adjust for coins that now are knowingly worth MORE - then the same should hold true for coins that
    at this point NOW are worth considerably worth less! What is so dificult to understand here?

    If submitters consistantly over pay for return S/H - IT ADDS UP. Ethically, over-payment should
    be refunded or credits issued! What part of this do YOU not comprehend?

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