Ichiro: 200+ Hits In 8 Straight Seasons ...

JackWESQ · September 17, 2008 1:31PM

Ichiro got his 200th hit tonight. This is 200+ hits in 8 straight seasons and 1792 hits for his career. Do you think he wants/has the ability to stick around for 6 more seasons to reach 3000? To be sure, if he retired after the 2010 season (his 10th season), I think he easily walks into the HOF.

/s/ JackWESQ

P.S. (You need to play at least 10 seasons to be eligible for the HOF.)

Goot · September 17, 2008 1:33PM

This will become an "Ichiro is overrated" thread in:

5.......4.........3.........2.......1......

WinPitcher · September 17, 2008 1:35PM

lol

Steve

K · September 17, 2008 1:43PM

It's a shame they don't count all the hits he had in Japan...

Dave99B · September 17, 2008 2:39PM

Ichiro is a freak.

I've seen him hit balls HARD, right to the shortstop, and still beat the throw.

Is anyone better with the stick with a 0-2 count? Nope.

Dave

TheVon · September 17, 2008 2:50PM

I had something to say until I read Goot's post.

StopYurWhining · September 17, 2008 2:54PM

the best singles hitter in the game. and very overrated indeed.

pretty anemic for extra base hits. doesnt walk a lot. single digit homers, barely 20 doubles.

joestalin · September 17, 2008 2:56PM

Too bad the Mariners are 400 games out of first. As sad as they have been, the Seahawks might out do them this year!

JS

SDSportsFan · September 17, 2008 3:06PM

<< It's a shame they don't count all the hits he had in Japan... >>

If MLB did that, they'd also have to count Julio Franco's hits over there!

Steve

Dave99B · September 17, 2008 3:09PM

If you needed a base hit to save your life, would you want anyone else at the plate? Not likely. The guy's a magic man.

Congrats Ichi!

Dave

TheVon · September 17, 2008 3:35PM

But if you needed a double you might as well start planning your own funeral.

ernie11 · September 17, 2008 6:42PM

He's still HOF in my book.

StopYurWhining · September 17, 2008 9:55PM

"But if you needed a double you might as well start planning your own funeral"

awesome

MantleMarisFordBerra · September 17, 2008 11:31PM

<< He's still HOF in my book. >>

+1

TomGshotput · September 18, 2008 1:51AM

<< It's a shame they don't count all the hits he had in Japan... >>

The Pacific League did count all his hits. And it is very easy to find out exactly how many were counted

Not Hall-of-Fame level yet, but he is starting to come very close

Stingray · September 18, 2008 2:05AM

It is a shame he could not have started to play here when he was a bit younger, wonder what his stats would be??

Reminds me of what Boggs could have done if he would not have been in the minors for so many years before he got to play in the big show.

Blackborder · September 18, 2008 2:52AM

Japanese people have an average lifespan of 130 years, so it's not out of the question to assume that Ichiro has another 24 good years ahead of him in MLB. Look out Pete.

Dave99B · September 19, 2008 8:10AM

I bet speedy Mr Suzuki strings 11 or 12 seasons together of 200+ hits. What a phemon!

Dave

perkdog · September 19, 2008 8:19AM

Congrats to Ichiro! Count me in as one who doesnt think he is overated.

DrJ · September 19, 2008 8:21AM

Were his hits "high leverage"?

thriller13 · September 19, 2008 3:45PM

Definitely not overrated. If what he was doing the past 8 years only took average skills, more would be doing it. If playing in a different era I think he would be better appreciated.

augustaman · September 20, 2008 1:48AM

I just don't get some of the comments. He hits singles but not doubles?
What's the difference? The only difference I see is that it gets you closer
to scoring position. With Ichiro, he just steals second after a single anyways
and then scores. He's had over 100 runs scored EVERY season too and will
do it again this year.
He's a lead-off hitter guys. Get on base and score is his job.....and he does
it better than anyone else. Oh yea, he plays a pretty good outfield too.
Great player........YES
HOFer..................YES

StopYurWhining · September 20, 2008 3:24AM

He's no Tony Gwynn, thats for sure.

WinPitcher · September 20, 2008 4:00AM

Ichiro is neither over nor under rated.

If that makes sense.

The guy is a hit machine and like mentioned above can play the heck of an outfield too.

HOF'r? Perhaps, he is well on his way.

Stve

TomGshotput · September 20, 2008 4:57AM

<< he just steals second after a single anyways
and then scores. He's had over 100 runs scored EVERY season too and will
do it again this year.
He's a lead-off hitter guys. Get on base and score is his job.....and he does
it better than anyone else. Oh yea, he plays a pretty good outfield too.
Great player........YES
HOFer..................YES >>

Nope. The writers didn't come close to inducting Tim Raines. . .

augustaman · September 20, 2008 9:39AM

When did Tim Raines have a 200 hit season?
Ichiro has done it every single year.

Edit: Wanted to make sure I was right and yes I was...........
Raines never had a 200 hit season. Also, Ichiro was ROY, MVP,
and has already been an all-star more times in his brief 8 yr
career than Raines was in his 20 yr career.

Now back to the original thread.........congrats to Ichiro on an
incredible accomplishment.

TomGshotput · September 20, 2008 10:02AM

Tim Raines had as many 200 hit seasons as Rickey Henderson and Ted Williams combined

When did Ichiro ever have a season with 70 walks?

augustaman · September 20, 2008 10:10AM

Tom -
I thought you were pointing out that Tim Raines did
the same things as Ichiro and since Raines is not in the
HOF, neither should Ichiro. I was trying to show how you
focused on just 1 minute aspect (as you did again using
Rickey & Teddy Ballgame) and that Ichiro outshines Raines
in so many other categories.
Point is that Ichiro is the best lead-off hitter in the game today
and is a better player than Raines was. I will concede however
that those Ricky and Teddy guys were better than both.

grote15 · September 20, 2008 10:12AM

The main reason Ichiro has as many hits as he does is because he never takes a walk. His career OBP is actually LOWER than Raines' due to this reason. Augustaman stated that the job of a leadoff hitter is the get on base--in that respect Raines actually did a BETTER job than Ichiro has to this point, and Ichiro's production is likely to taper off, too, as he gets older, widening the disparity between them. Raines also played the majority of his carrer in a tough stadium for hitters, and ballparks in general favored pitchers throughout the '80s when compared to the present day.

WinPitcher · September 20, 2008 10:13AM

Why Ichiro was compared to Raines is beyond me.

Except for the fact that both could hit a single and then steal a base?

Raines had power, deserves to be in the hall yet I do not see the comparison (s)

Steve

grote15 · September 20, 2008 10:20AM

For the record, though, I do believe that Ichiro is an outstanding player in his own right, I just think Raines was better.

augustaman · September 20, 2008 10:23AM

grote -
Actually I said "get on base AND score"
so to say Raines was better in that aspect
is incorrect.

grote15 · September 20, 2008 10:28AM

I'm not focusing on just that aspect (raw number of runs scored per season) when I say Raines was a better player, though.

Overall, his hitting stats when you take into account OBP %, OPS %, etc. are better than Ichiro's. It also should not be held against Raines that he played his best seasons on some very bad Expos clubs that had great difficulty bringing him home from second base. Runs scored, to that extent, is more a reflection of his teammates' ability than the ability of Tim Raines as a player. Raines also had much more power than Ichiro has, too, despite playing during an era that was far less favorable to hitters than today's.

dallasactuary · September 20, 2008 10:33AM

<< Ichiro outshines Raines in so many other categories.
Point is that Ichiro is ... a better player than Raines was. >>

There, are you all happy now? My head just exploded.

ymarea · September 20, 2008 10:43AM

I think it's difficult to compare Ichiro to other players. He is a very unique talent. I'm not saying he's the greatest, but he is a very different package. He sprays hits like Rod Carew, but steals more bases and scores more runs. He is durable like Billy Williams and Steve Garvey, but lacks their power. He is small in stature, but has a cannon arm that rivals evan Dave Parker's. He has occassional pop, averaging 9 homers per season, but gets relatively few doubles, ala Willie Wilson. He doesn't walk like Brett Butler, but will make a pitcher work just as hard as Butler did. He doesn't steal as often as Rickey Henderson, but his SB success rate is among the all-time leaders.

Like Steve said earlier, he's neither over- nor underrated. Ichiro is what he is. An excellent hitter, provides much-needed speed at the top of the order, and tremendous outfield defense. I'm a big fan of his and believe he is already a lock for the HOF. As long as he gets his 10 years in, he's a shoo-in.

TomGshotput · September 20, 2008 10:44AM

augusta,
the exact words you wrote that I initially quoted is a near perfect description of Tim Raines in every way, except for being in the Hall-of-Fame. If you want to start adding things like hits and walks and MVP awards and extra-base hits, than there are some differences between the players. When it comes to the things you wrote originally there is very little difference and I find it hard to believe you cannot see that

Right now Raines has had the better career. Ichiro will likely surpass him within two or three years. Either way when it comes to the Hall-of-Fame, Raines was a drug user, Ichiro a pioneer, both things cloud the judgement of the voters and give a huge edge to the Japanese player

TheVon · September 20, 2008 12:30PM

I didn't really think Ichiro was overrated as a hitter until this thread. Now I think he's WAY overrated. Best leadoff hitter in the game? Seriously? I'd MUCH rather have Grady Sizemore, Jose Reyes, or Hanley Ramirez to name a few.

How can the best leadoff hitter in baseball be 55th this year in On Base Percentage? If the job of the best leadoff hitter in baseball is to get on base and score runs, why is Ichiro 24th in runs this year? Even if you want to make the argument that his steals should count as doubles (18+43), I'd still rather have Dustin Pedroia's 51 Doubles and 18 SBs.

Blackborder · September 20, 2008 1:18PM

dallasactuary · September 20, 2008 3:27PM

<< He sprays hits like Rod Carew, but steals more bases and scores more runs. >>

I'm not sure what's worse than having my head explode, but whatever it is it's about to happen if we're not only going to say Ichiro was better than Raines, we're actually going to say he was better than Carew? Tell me that wasn't your point, that you know Carew was better than Ichiro, or my demise will be on your head.

ymarea · September 21, 2008 2:54AM

That was not the point of my post. I never said Ichiro was better than anyone. I described the uniqueness of his talent by comparing his many skills to those of several other players. My point was that it's tough to find another player quite like him. Not that he's better or worse, just different.

Since you mention Carew, the numbers don't lie. Suzuki has been the more productive hitter. Suzuki has more 200-hit seasons (8 to 4), more 100-run seasons (7 to 1), a higher career batting average, a slghtly higher slugging pct., and nearly as many steals (315 to 353) in 8 seasons as Carew got in 19. I was a big admirer of Carew's, but the one thing that always struck me was his lack of production to go with all those stellar batting averages, and his seeming lack of hustle.

dallasactuary · September 21, 2008 3:56AM

<< Suzuki has been the more productive hitter. >>

Well now I know what's worse than my head exploding. I won't describe it because it would gross everyone out, but trust me, it's not pretty. And it's your fault.

perkdog · September 21, 2008 4:18AM

<< 

<< Suzuki has been the more productive hitter. >>

Well now I know what's worse than my head exploding. I won't describe it because it would gross everyone out, but trust me, it's not pretty. And it's your fault. >>

Hey at least he didnt say he was better than Ron Santo

ymarea · September 21, 2008 5:16AM

Ron Santo? Who's that? Did he play pro ball?

dallasactuary · September 21, 2008 6:00AM

<< Hey at least he didnt say he was better than Ron Santo

>>

All kidding aside, we're talking about Rod Carew! Am I the only one who feels a shiver go down my spine when Ichiro is mentioned in the same sentence as Carew? At the risk of losing my official status, Carew was a better hitter than even Ron Santo, and he deserves better than this.

perkdog · September 21, 2008 6:02AM

<< 

<< Hey at least he didnt say he was better than Ron Santo

>>

All kidding aside, we're talking about Rod Carew! Am I the only one who feels a shiver go down my spine when Ichiro is mentioned in the same sentence as Carew? At the risk of losing my official status, Carew was a better hitter than even Ron Santo, and he deserves better than this. >>

I do like Ichiro and think he is a great player but no I dont believe he should be mentioned with Rod Carew.

ymarea · September 21, 2008 7:21AM

Guys, in my first post I never even hinted that Ichiro is a better hitter than Carew. I never suggested that he was better or worse than anyone. I mentioned many other players, but Carew has caught your interest.

I want to know what it is about Carew that makes you think Suzuki should not be mentioned along with him. We have people in this thread claiming that Suzuki is overrated, a contention with which I disagree. But why isn't Carew overrated? Except for his magical 1977 season, the only outstanding statistics of his are batting average (7 titles in all) and triples. Even with all his triples he STILL couldn't score 100 runs in any season other than 1977.

Compare the two after their first 8 seasons in the majors:

---------- AB----R-----H---2B--3B-HR-RBI--AVG-SB--CS--SB%--TB--SLG--HR%
Carew 3915 551 1266 189 48 32 393 .323 137 72 .655 1647 .421 0.8***4 Batting Titles Rookie of Year; Gold Gloves 0 (0 for his entire career); MVP 0 (did win it in 1977)
Suzuki 5424 878 1796 195 64 73 467 .331 315 70 .818 2338 .431 1.3***2 Batting Titles; Rookie of Year; Gold Gloves 7 (likely to get #8 this year); MVP 1

Suzuki is every bit as good a hitter as Carew and is the far superior fielder and baserunner. I can appreciate Carew's greatness and your defense of him, but when you claim Ichiro doesn't measure up you must make your case.

dallasactuary · September 21, 2008 8:45AM

<< Guys, in my first post I never even hinted that Ichiro is a better hitter than Carew. I never suggested that he was better or worse than anyone. >>

<< Suzuki is every bit as good a hitter as Carew and is the far superior fielder and baserunner. >>

If I still had a head, it would explode! You JUST said (see above) that they are equal as hitters, and that Ichiro is better at everything else. Unless losing my head has caused my logical skills to leave me, that is EXACTLY THE SAME THING as saying that Ichiro is better than Carew. You ARE saying that Ichiro is better than Carew, it is causing me intense physical and psychological pain, and I will excuse myself from this thread.

TomGshotput · September 21, 2008 8:53AM

Why did you choose to compare first eight years and not ages 27 to 34?

Ichiro's first eight years were a lot better than Robin Yount's first eight years too.

How about Albert Belle's first eight full years?

ymarea · September 21, 2008 8:55AM

I hope you, as the official defender of Santo, Blyleven, et al, do a better job of defending them than you have so far done with Carew.

I repeat, I NEVER said Ichiro was better. The comparisons I have made since my first post were spurred by your challenging me with the claim that I said Ichiro was better. That thought never occurred to me until you put it my head. But now I must conclude that Ichiro Suzuki is, indeed, the better ballplayer. Whew! There, I said it. I feel much better now.

ymarea · September 21, 2008 9:06AM

<< Why did you choose to compare first eight years and not ages 27 to 34?

Ichiro's first eight years were a lot better than Robin Yount's first eight years too.

How about Albert Belle's first eight full years? >>

I chose to compare their first 8 years because those are concrete numbers that we can all grasp. I have no idea what their respective ages were at various stages of their careers. Ichiro's 1st 8 are indeed better than Yount's...they are better than the first 8 of most leadoff hitters in history. To compare him with Belle is senseless. Belle was a slugger. His numbers should be compared with those of other sluggers. The ONLY reason I am comparing Suzuki to Carew is because others have said that, not only was Carew the superior hitter, but Ichiro doesn't even deserve to be mentioned with Carew. That is absurd. To suggest that Ichiro is a great all-around player (not just a hitter) does not detract from the greatness of others. However, if one were to claim that player A is better than player B, than one should be prepared to explain why.

Carew's name appeared in my first post only as an example of players with talents similar to Suzuki's. I also mentioned Willie Wilson, Brett Butler, and Dave Parker. I never said Suzuki was better. I was merely pointing out what a unique player he is. He is a rarely seen combination of many talents who is difficult to categorize.

ymarea · September 21, 2008 9:27AM

<< Why did you choose to compare first eight years and not ages 27 to 34?

Ichiro's first eight years were a lot better than Robin Yount's first eight years too.

How about Albert Belle's first eight full years? >>

Just for kicks, here are Ichiro's numbers compared to those amassed by Carew from ages 27-34 (1973-1980)

------------AB---R----H----2B--3B-HR--RBI-AVG-SB--CS---SB%---TB-----SLG--HR%
Carew 4448 735 1549 226 68 57 560 .348 254 106 .706 2082 .468 1.3****5 Batting Titles; 1 MVP; 0 Gold Gloves
Ichiro 5424 878 1796 195 64 73 467 .331 315 70 .818 2338 .431 1.3****2 Batting Titles; 1 MVP; 7 Gold Gloves

This comparison is clearly more favorable to Carew than my earlier one. However, it still speaks to the point that Ichiro belongs in the same discussion. Plus, with Ichiro's superior baserunning and defense, he is the superior all-around player. Not only is he not overrated in my opinion, I think he is underrated. When we speak of the best players today, A-rod, Pujols, Jeter, and a select few come to mind. Ichiro is scarcely mentioned in that discussion. Even when we talk of the best hitters, it's always Pujols (deservedly so) and a few others, with Ichiro rarely a thought.

Ichiro: 200+ Hits In 8 Straight Seasons ...

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