(New update on ENGS) ENGS threatens to Suit Coinauctionshelp

CoinAuctionsHelp · July 15, 2008 7:38AM

I recieved and email from the owner of ENGS (Elite Numismatic Grading Service) and here it is.

TO WHOMEVER.

ENGS COINS IS MY COMPANY,SAYING THAT YOU WOULD NOT PUT A MS 69 PEACE DOLLAR IN MY HOLDER IF YOU HAD ONE IS SLURING MY COMPANY. I TALKED TO MY ATTORNY HERE IN EVANSVILLE, INDIANA AND HE'S GIVING YOU 1 WEEK TO REMOVE YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT MY GRADING SERVICE.OR YOU WILL BE IN COURT AT YOUR COST.

1 WEEK. TERRY JONES

Here is the webpage he is referring too: ENGS Page

If there's any lawyers on this board, any advice is welcome.

doh · July 15, 2008 7:40AM

I wouldn't be too worried about an "attorney" who can't even spell the word properly.

Edited, well, I guess it wasn't the attorney who actually e-mailed you. Still, if this was even close to legit it would have been the attorney contacting you, not that jerk running that "grading service."

CoinAuctionsHelp · July 15, 2008 7:43AM

<<

I wouldn't be too worried about an "attorney" who can't even spell the word properly.

Edited, well, I guess it wasn't the attorney who actually e-mailed you. Still, if this was even close to legit it would have been the attorney contacting you, not that jerk running that "grading service." >>

He can't spell slurring correctly either, but this is the owner's email not the lawyer's.

doh · July 15, 2008 7:44AM

I think he's just trying to scare you.

You're stating your opinion on the Internet...that's an awful stretch for libel IMHO. And who's to say it's untrue? There's no way to prove the coin in that holder is truly an MS-69, how is what you're saying untrue?

dbldie55 · July 15, 2008 7:47AM

You can always find a bottom feeding pile of scum with a law degree to do this type of crap.

As far as your opinion, that is all it is. You said you would not have them grade a MS69 Peace dollar if you had one. Is his attorney going to tell you that you would need to allow them to grade it, even if you did not want them to?

You may want to change the comments to include they "threaten legal action if you comment on them". Hard to say it isn't true.

Russ · July 15, 2008 7:53AM

AOL user?

Russ, NCNE

DorkGirl · July 15, 2008 7:58AM

<< AOL user?

Russ, NCNE >>

notwilight · July 15, 2008 8:01AM

Idle threat.

Be in court at your cost means drive down to the court. If it even happened, I wouldn't even take a lawyer. I'd say the worst that could happen is they ask you to take down the page.

--Jerry

adamlaneus · July 15, 2008 8:05AM

Heck. Tell him you +ARE+ a lawyer.

notwilight · July 15, 2008 8:06AM

BTW, your comments on the website are factual and to the point. I don't really see libel there. --Jerry

TavernTreasures · July 15, 2008 8:08AM

<< 

<<

I wouldn't be too worried about an "attorney" who can't even spell the word properly.

Edited, well, I guess it wasn't the attorney who actually e-mailed you. Still, if this was even close to legit it would have been the attorney contacting you, not that jerk running that "grading service." >>

He can't spell slurring correctly either, but this is the owner's email not the lawyer's. >>

In the original post, I see spelling errors by both sides.

CarlWohlforth · July 15, 2008 8:09AM

Ignore it. No way that Peace $ is a 69.

You may also choose to ignore my advice as I am NOT a lawyer.

LanLord · July 15, 2008 8:15AM

where is the big old steamy pile icon?

ms69 my hind end*

*but that's just my opinion

doh · July 15, 2008 8:17AM

You should respond to his e-mail and include this thread...show Terry how we're all laughing at his pathetic excuse for a grading service.

Bayard1908 · July 15, 2008 8:20AM

Exactly what language does he believe is defamatory?

pheh · July 15, 2008 8:22AM

It could be a 70 and your verbiage still wouldn't be claiming anything libelous. You have stated your opinion ("I would not...") about a non-top-tier grading service. A popular opinion, no less... end of story.

If you stated that they couldn't grade for $#17 because their staff were all patients at the Helen Keller Hospital for the Blind.... then they could attempt to sue you.

messydesk · July 15, 2008 8:24AM

You could respond:

"TO MR. JONES, OR WHATEVER,

MY ATTERNY WROTE SMOEHTING FOR ME TO TELL YOU, BUT SINCE HIS HANDWRITTING IS SLOPY, ALL I CAN MAKE OUT IS AN F AND A U."

Frankcoins · July 15, 2008 8:46AM

<< Ignore it. No way that Peace $ is a 69.

>>

The point is that it might indeed be an MS69 according to THAT COMPANY'S standards. Since there is no accepted standard that
the market MUST adhere to, and that PCGS and NGC both have unpublished proprietary standards that differ from each other and from the
"Official" ANA standards...those publicly criticizing other companies will continue to be at risk for lawsuits for stating "opinions" in a public
forum.

AU58WALKERS · July 15, 2008 8:49AM

Hmmm...I wonder how much it will cost YOU to go court and WIN.

OregonCityGold · July 15, 2008 8:51AM

It's easy to be cavalier about weak slander claims, but let me tell you, if he sues you, you're not going to want to rely on "just showing up" in court on the day of trial. You're going to hire a lawyer, and it will cost real money. If you're rich like Mr. Butterworth and some other forum members, it can be entertainment. But if you're a regular guy, it will be a big pain in the ass. It doesn't really affect your website, so I would play it safe and take it down.

charley · July 15, 2008 8:52AM

This is serious. All Caps. Bongo Brawl. Respectfully, John Curlis

SirAnthonyAC · July 15, 2008 9:00AM

No professional would EVER write the words “to whomever” the term is “to whom it may concern” and you can’t go to court if he doesn’t know who you are; if he did you would have been addressed by name.

No professional (eg a lawyer or attorney) could possible write something so grammatically incorrect; and his cap locks appear to be stuck.

Also it’s not “slurring” a company it’s “slandering” and that is one of the most difficult court battles to win. Your opinion is not slander, slandering implies lying or deceit with the willful intent to harm.

What is this… “at your cost” no one is taken to court at their cost, they could sue for court costs if they win the case but, that’s a long shot.

He’s just trying to scare you.

Don’t even give it a second thought until or if you receive a letter, with letter head, from an actual attorney.

Casman · July 15, 2008 9:10AM

He's right, bet that dude's drunk or something....hence the slurring of his speech

messydesk · July 15, 2008 9:11AM

<< Also it’s not “slurring” a company it’s “slandering” ... >>

Maybe he was saying it after a few Manhattans.

CoinAuctionsHelp · July 15, 2008 9:12AM

<< You could respond:

"TO MR. JONES, OR WHATEVER,

MY ATTERNY WROTE SMOEHTING FOR ME TO TELL YOU, BUT SINCE HIS HANDWRITTING IS SLOPY, ALL I CAN MAKE OUT IS AN F AND A U." >>

I laughed my ass off.

CoinAuctionsHelp · July 15, 2008 9:17AM

edited

ksteelheader · July 15, 2008 9:18AM

<< 

<< You could respond:

"TO MR. JONES, OR WHATEVER,

MY ATTERNY WROTE SMOEHTING FOR ME TO TELL YOU, BUT SINCE HIS HANDWRITTING IS SLOPY, ALL I CAN MAKE OUT IS AN F AND A U." >>

I laughed my ass off. >>

Now, what's gonna hold your pants up??

charley · July 15, 2008 9:20AM

I wonder about the "coin grading is not an opinion" part, but I understand why this would be stated. Respectfully, John Curlis

CoinAuctionsHelp · July 15, 2008 9:22AM

<< 

Now, what's gonna hold your pants up??

>>

The other side. lol

BlindedByEgo · July 15, 2008 9:23AM

Interesting thoughts come out as to venue, how deep his pockets are, and how much you could use ANA grading standards to your own truth defense.

At the end of the day he seems eminently ignorable, and you are certainly not the only source of derision regarding his company on the internet.

Depends on your level of comfort in the potential of him actually following through. Given his communication skills, and the fact that he hasn't figured out your personal information, I would bet that the threat is an idle one. But it's your money, not mine, at stake.

Seems like a jerk, though.

BECOKA · July 15, 2008 9:28AM

You spent too much time on that reply.

If the guy was serious he would have had the lawyer contact you.

storm888 · July 15, 2008 9:43AM

"...You can always find a bottom feeding pile of scum with a law degree to do this type of carp...."

//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Not likely, in this instance.

Edited To Add:

There appears to be nothing actionable on the "offending page."

I would neither remove the page nor respond to the self-slabber.

If the OP is worried, he should contact his own legal counsel.

copperfan · July 15, 2008 9:45AM

Email him and say he should first learn how to spell. Then he should take a ANA grading class or two. I dont even have to look at a 69 Peace from them to know it may be a 62 at best. Maybe even a 64.

Send him a link to this thread and ask him to join so we could hear his side of the story...

copperfan · July 15, 2008 9:48AM

copperfan · July 15, 2008 9:49AM

Yea, that looks like a MS 69 Peace $1.

kranky · July 15, 2008 9:49AM

Frankly, nothing good can come from replying.

savoyspecial · July 15, 2008 9:50AM

a few points:

1. this company i've never heard of, do they offer a guarantee?? if not, are they saying that they dont trust their own graders opinions?? (by their definition, should they sue themselves for self-slander)

2. i guess next in line to be sued are Ebay and CAC since they dont recognize this company as an equal to PCGS and NGC either

greg

charley · July 15, 2008 9:52AM

kranky, the definition of marriage. Respectfully, John Curlis

ricko · July 15, 2008 9:55AM

My advice would be to not reply at all... and leave your website as it is.... I am not a lawyer, but ran this by company counsel. Best bet is just ignore him. When he wakes up, he will have a headache and probably not remember his threat.

Cheers, RickO

lcoopie · July 15, 2008 9:55AM

<< I recieved and email from the owner of ENGS (Elite Numismatic Grading Service) and here it is.

TO WHOMEVER.
ENGS COINS IS MY COMPANY,SAYING THAT YOU WOULD NOT PUT A MS 69 PEACE DOLLAR IN MY HOLDER IF YOU HAD ONE IS SLURING MY COMPANY. I TALKED TO MY ATTORNY HERE IN EVANSVILLE, INDIANA AND HE'S GIVING YOU 1 WEEK TO REMOVE YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT MY GRADING SERVICE.OR YOU WILL BE IN COURT AT YOUR COST.
1 WEEK. TERRY JONES

If it is your opinion, that you would not put an ms69 coin in his holder
that is what they call freedom of speech

Have his attorney read the constitution

I am not an attorney, just a citizen

COALPORTER · July 15, 2008 10:04AM

<< Frankly, nothing good can come from replying. >>

To the OP: I would not reply with that email (or any other). You said several things that could only get you into more problems, if the TPG owner did really take action. The best bet is to say nothing and consult a lawyer if you think the threat is real and let the lawyer do ALL the talking.

It's not that easy anyway. If you live in a different state, it will be difficult to serve you. And then you have the whole discovery phase and the courts have to decide to hear the case, so you don't just "show up" to court and the courts are really so busy that it will probably take 2 years to really get into a court room. and any judgement would probably be small and difficult to collect. Slander/libel suits rarely go too far and most lawyers run from these anyway.

Like they say, " if you got 3 years and 30 k, then bring it on !"

Or move offshore !!

CoinAuctionsHelp · July 15, 2008 10:25AM

Thanks for the comments, and advice. I wrote the email this morning and thought better on sending it. I don't think I will send a reply anyway.

storm888 · July 15, 2008 10:27AM

"...I don't think I will send a reply anyway. "

/////////////////////////

Good Decision.

lcoopie · July 15, 2008 10:29AM

here is another opinion re the
well know elite numismatic grading service

warning from elsewhere

CoinAuctionsHelp · July 15, 2008 11:10AM

If I never visit Indiana then they can't touch me unless he tries action on the Federal level, and by that time I will take it down. I did edit the page, but I added to the comment. Also, I have a disclaimer on the TPGS home page just for this reason.

FullStepJeffs · July 15, 2008 11:31AM

You know, this thread reminds me about another thread on these boards that COULD be taken the wrong way and a libel suit born. I don't remember if it was settled or dropped, but either way, I'm not including my opinion in this thread. I like to spend my money on coins, not because I was talking about a coin I would never buy.

Steve

CoinAuctionsHelp · July 15, 2008 11:37AM

In theory, if it ever went to court, and all the facts where put on the table, the guy would be sorry he tried it. I know why he grades his own coins, and I could rally a few statments from prior customers, and I know some of them are not happy with his service. He just doesn't know it, yet.

Silverstate · July 15, 2008 11:41AM

<< You could respond:

"TO MR. JONES, OR WHATEVER,

MY ATTERNY WROTE SMOEHTING FOR ME TO TELL YOU, BUT SINCE HIS HANDWRITTING IS SLOPY, ALL I CAN MAKE OUT IS AN F AND A U." >>

Silverstate · July 15, 2008 11:47AM

<<

>>

In his dreams, that is MS69 !!

Hahahhahahhaha
You don't even need a larger photo to see the marks on the coin.

CoinAuctionsHelp · July 15, 2008 2:05PM

I know and he knows this coin is not MS69, and I'm not changing my website. It's a free country and they can't make me change my opinion. I know that coins in PCGS slabs sale for more and I wouldn't use any other service, and that's all I meant from my statement. Even though, I can't stanf these self slabbers and no what there all about.

SirAnthonyAC · July 15, 2008 2:46PM

At this point I also agree.. don't reply.

(New update on ENGS) ENGS threatens to Suit Coinauctionshelp

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