1911 Brown Lincoln, Thoughts?

OneCent · June 21, 2008 10:42AM

Ok, I was visiting my folks in South Jersey today and decided to stop by the local coin shop. I always page through the old school Lincoln Binders looking for something that the owner missed. I guess some would call this cherrypicking. Most the time I find the typical run of the mill heavily circulated stuff that is overgraded or accurately graded but occasionally I stumble across something. Today, I believe I stumbled upon something.

This 1911 Lincoln was in a 2x2 cardboard flip (3 staples securing it shut, why do they still use dangerous staples w/coins???) and graded VF. My cursory inspection of the coin said AU at least with a very real shot at uncirculated (brown).

I believe this coin to be MS64ish as opposed to the VF that it was listed at. I cannot definitively rule out cleaned and re-toned though.

Thoughts?

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rgCoinGuy · June 21, 2008 10:46AM

My thoughts? nice pickup!

tomauglop · June 21, 2008 10:46AM

I'd say it's a nice pick... Can't tell if the coin has any rub on it from the pick, but it looks like it has a shot at UNC. Looks like a solid strike too. In any case, definitely better than VF.

Longacre · June 21, 2008 10:47AM

Solid 58, and I can see it in a 61 holder. I will give that coin a sticker, too.

drwstr123 · June 21, 2008 10:56AM

Very nice strike, probably an early die state. Nice appeal. Mike

ArizonaJack · June 21, 2008 11:04AM

I really like it

lkeigwin · June 21, 2008 11:09AM

Nice job! I like it. 62BN is certainly possible. Are you going to send it for TPG-grading?

harvey85422458 · June 21, 2008 11:11AM

thisnamztaken · June 21, 2008 11:11AM

Nice Lincoln. I would say Ch. AU.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · June 21, 2008 11:13AM

63BN

OneCent · June 21, 2008 11:16AM

<< Nice job! I like it. 62BN is certainly possible. Are you going to send it for TPG-grading? >>

No. I am looking for a PQ one in PCGS 65RB for my registry set. I am a Lincoln junkie and couldn't pass on a coin that was obviously not VF. Plus, I sorta like the thrill of the hunt. In my experience many non-specialist B&M dealers assume that a brown Lincoln cannot be uncirculated. Most of my cherrypicks from B&M's have been unc brown Lincolns.

How they came to the conclusion that this one was VF is beyond me, though.

I could still see this as a 63-64BN, and I do appreciate the opinions!!!

RedneckHB · June 21, 2008 11:28AM

Very nice.

63bn

ambro51 · June 21, 2008 11:37AM

Beachcomber?

golfer72 · June 21, 2008 11:42AM

Awesome coin. great eye appeal. I have seen worse in 63/64 slabs. That is the type of coin find that makes this hobby so much fun in my opinion.

OneCent · June 21, 2008 11:45AM

<< Beachcomber? >>

No.

CarlWohlforth · June 21, 2008 11:57AM

Looks decent! The obverse looks nicer than the reverse which seems to lack some luster. Usually it is the other way around. I can't tell if it is choice AU or choice Unc. Anyway I agree it ain't VF.

SkyMan · June 21, 2008 12:29PM

Nice lookin' cherrypick!

NumisOxide · June 21, 2008 12:50PM

Looks low MS. MS-62 BN.

kryptonitecomics · June 21, 2008 1:06PM

Looks like a 64BN.....if folks think it's an AU I am ok with that as it might have a rub.....but how can a coin that clean be a 62???

NumisOxide · June 21, 2008 1:11PM

<< Looks like a 64BN.....if folks think it's an AU I am ok with that as it might have a rub.....but how can a coin that clean be a 62???

>>

Market grading because it may have rub.

grip · June 21, 2008 1:11PM

Sure looks like a 64 to me.

Al

kryptonitecomics · June 21, 2008 1:19PM

<< 

<< Looks like a 64BN.....if folks think it's an AU I am ok with that as it might have a rub.....but how can a coin that clean be a 62???

>>

Market grading because it may have rub.

>>

Ok I can live with that explanation or else I am going to look for some 62's that look like that coin

coindudeonebay · June 21, 2008 1:28PM

Can you see part of the VDB on the reverse? I have always heard tell of coins, 1910 and 1911 that showed part of the VDB but never seen one personally, but this one looks like it does.

FishyOne · June 21, 2008 2:15PM

<<Can you see part of the VDB on the reverse? I have always heard ...1910 and 1911 that showed part of the VDB >>

I've never heard that one before. I have heard one of the '09 VDB reverse dies had the letters filed off though.

LeeG · June 21, 2008 9:34PM

Nice grab. Looks MS to me. Is that a rim bruise on the upper right reverse?

WaterSport · June 21, 2008 10:23PM

Drop it in acetone for a few mins. and then report back...I think you will be surprised.

WS

291fifth · June 21, 2008 10:40PM

A solid and attractive AU58. Nice find.

TorinoCobra71 · June 21, 2008 10:45PM

This coin is way better than VF!!!! I wold guess XF/AU (45/50) you got yourself a nice lincoln there!

OneCent · June 22, 2008 1:47AM

<< 
Is that a rim bruise on the upper right reverse? >>

Yes, it is

.

<< Drop it in acetone for a few mins. and then report back...I think you will be surprised. >>

I know what you are thinking and I thought the same thing. Soaking in acetone as we speak. Will re-image this afternoon.

Overall, I think that we can almost universally conclude that this coin is way north of the VF that it was sold as. Somewhere between XF45 - and MS63. Not a high dollar coin, but definitely a "fun" coin and purchased for the price of a gallon of milk. The real story here is that I spent 1 hour looking though coins and was able to use the knowledge that I have gained over the past several years to identify a coin that clearly was not given much attention. I doubt the shop owner really cares because they likely paid even less than what I did. I also purchased a 1933-D in what they graded as XF, my opinion is more like VF-35 but the price was right so I bought that too. ALso did a "courtesy" buy of a 1976 clad proof set that was a little overpriced but the set is nice with potential dcam's.

Moral of the story, even though prices in my desired series have skyrocketed (MS Lincoln's are really my bag) and I have chosen to become more of a sideline player for a while (we'll see how long this lasts), I still had a boatload of fun, acquired some nice coins and got my coin fix all for very little cost. In my book it was a good day.

ricko · June 22, 2008 3:37AM

62BN for sure... could be higher, in hand. Cheers, RickO

coindudeonebay · June 22, 2008 6:53AM

Any more pix after the acetone soak? Also, what about the possible VDB on the reverse? Someone posted that they heard of possible 09 reverses used in future issues, I've heard the same yet I've also heard there were partial VDB's and yours looks to have a partial VDB there, but then again, you have it in hand.

savoyspecial · June 22, 2008 7:00AM

looks upper-end AU and nice from here

greg

SUMORADA · June 22, 2008 8:01AM

BECOKA · June 22, 2008 8:09AM

Can't really tell, I'll guess AU55 from the pics.

coindudeonebay · June 22, 2008 8:12AM

<<

>>

My point exactly... thanks for the pic help there!

dizzyfoxx · June 22, 2008 8:27AM

Very attractive Lincoln.

Jcarney · June 22, 2008 8:29AM

<< Drop it in acetone for a few mins. and then report back...I think you will be surprised.

WS >>

You thinking Deller's darkener?

OneCent · June 22, 2008 10:13AM

Whelp folks, unfortunately the acetone bath revealed a serious problem with my cherrypick. Albeit not VF and still an AU/MS coin, it is not original either

. It has been unquestionably cleaned (reverse absolutely stipped) and retoned - I did say in my original post that I could not rule this out. Should have bathed in acetone first, now I feel stupid. I thought that I had cherrypicked a nice piece here, but clearly not.

Coindudeonebay - the VDB remnants on a 1910 or 1910-S have never been proven nor has there ever been any authenticated by a top TPG. It is likely a myth and more a figment of one's active imagination than anything real.

Before Acetone:

AfterAcetone:

Before Acetone:

After Acetone (ughh, yuck):

Likely Deller's Darkener, not pretty. Acetone also appears to have revealed environmental damage on the reverse as well. Hard to believe that it is the same coin, especially the reverse.

RedneckHB · June 22, 2008 10:30AM

I'll buy it from you if you dont like it.

BillJones · June 22, 2008 10:31AM

I would grade this coin at least MS-63, brown. I'd say that it more likely that it is MS-64, brown.

Since I'm not a fan of red copper, I really like it.

OneCent · June 22, 2008 10:35AM

<< I'll buy it from you if you dont like it.

>>

Did you see the after acetone picture?

RedneckHB · June 22, 2008 10:51AM

<< 

<< I'll buy it from you if you dont like it.

>>

Did you see the after acetone picture? >>

Yup.

PM sent.

yellowjacket · June 25, 2008 1:13AM

It's troubling to me to see what happend to this coin after an acetone dip. I've never seen such a disappoinitng result. Was the bath overused and contaminated ???

Garrow

TwoSides2aCoin · June 25, 2008 2:04AM

From RB to BG

Reddish Brown to Brownish Green.

OneCent · June 25, 2008 2:32AM

<< It's troubling to me to see what happend to this coin after an acetone dip. I've never seen such a disappoinitng result. Was the bath overused and contaminated ???

Garrow >>

Nope, fresh pure acetone. Never had any issues using acetone on copper in the past either. As I stated earlier, I suspect that the coin was re-colored using deller's darkner or some other product. The acetone simply stripped away the re-color job. Coin is shot and never was what it appeared to be.

yellowjacket · June 25, 2008 6:22AM

Well, if you paid VF money, you are still way ahead. I bought a 1915 graded AU for $19 years ago that now resides in a PCGS 64RB holder in my registry set.

It's always fun to dig through the local B&M shop's material to see what turns up.

Garrow

1911 Brown Lincoln, Thoughts?

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