Ebay has had a profound effect on the ability of B&M shops to buy and maintain inventory and with that have come fewer shoppers to patronize these shops since they can largely find what they want online.
<< <i>Actually, I am sitting at cubicle at the Honda dealership. I just bought a Civic Hybrid. >>
My dad has one of those - it's a great car. Mom has a Prius, which is also great. Sometime in their 60s my parents went green - very green. At first I thought they were nuts; in reality they were ahead of the curve.
I understand what you are saying. However not all B&M dealers are the same. There are those who are fair and those who are not. I also dislike many of the things going on and have sold my coins. However I can tell you that there are honest and fair dealers out there. If you find one you do not like then just keep walking until you find one that suits your needs. In a free society, merchants by-in-large for the most part have a right to price goods as they see fit. So you, the consumer have a right to do business elsewhere. I believe that the power you have as a collector or investor is far greater than any dealer.
I also have been disappointed with things that I have seen in the industry, but again, their are many honest dealers out there.
As far as those who are complaining that Gecko is beating a dead horse, you too have the option to keep on walking. If you don't like the post, just move on. As long as Gecko complies with our hosts rules, he has a right to express his views. You don't have to like or agree with them, but might I suggest that you welcome his right to express his opinion, as it is that same right that allows yours to be heard.
Thanks to Percy, Planchet, and the few others who have taken the time to read my "rantings" about the current state of the coin market in regards to pricing, without resorting to calling me names, or implying that I should find another hobby. Perhaps im simply venting, perhaps theres more to it. Either way, my feelings come to you straight from my heart. I dont sugarcoat anything. Planchet is right, there ARE good, honest dealers out there. Unfortunately, from my experience the majority of coin dealers are at par with used car salesmen. I have found a few of the better ones, and i'll concentrate on building my collection through them.
<< <i>OK since logic doesn't work, lets try this. Phil what happened? Why are you so bitter against the entire industry? Tell us the story on how/when you were totally screwed by a dealer that it your mission to complain about them 24/7. Maybe, if you answer these questions, we can get to the heart of your problem. >>
The heart of my "problem" is that greedy dealers such as yourself will offer maybe $145 on a common date IHC in 64RD, but refuse to sell the coin to the next guy for $200. You feel the need to squeeze every last drop of profit out of even the most common EASILY replaceable coins, with little to zero regard as to the customer's satisfaction. David, if you had a coin for sale that would be so difficult to replace that you may not have another for years, I can understand not wanting to leave any money on the table. But coins like the MS64RD IHC we talked about can be found everywhere. Thats a coin you could make your reasonable profit on and replace in a day or two. >>
As I PM'ed you long ago during the first of your many threads that mention this MS-64RD Indian cent, we did not pay ASK for this coin, which at the time was $160, we paid OVER ASK for it to be able to have it in inventory. I don't know where you come up with $145.
At the show you offered David $200 for the coin, as is your right. At that same show, he could have walked over and sold it to Rick Snow for $205. Instead, he counter-offered the coin to you at $215, as is his right. You passed, as is your right.
FWIW, the coin has sold off of our website at the original $230 price. End of story.
Tom DeLorey Harlan J. Berk, Ltd.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>But im talking about woefully underpriced coins such as flowing hair pieces, and even some draped bust material. >>
A few years ago, there might have been some truth to this statement, but no longer. The last Flowing Hair Dollar I purchased was in a PCGS EF-40 holder. The coin was original and even had some luster, but it cost me $15K. Sorry, but at that price the coin is not "woefully underprised" any more.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
CaptHenway, why did you have to bring logic and facts into this? What is becoming of society when a person just can't be unhappy? Respectfully, John Curlis
Let me repeat: "Collect moderns". It really is stress relief >>
Unless you are buying cheep moderns, that statemnt is off the mark too. I'd much rather have $15K in Flowing Hair dollar than $4K in that over priced 1995-W silver eagle.
The other problem with moderns is if that is all you collect, you end up with a collection that is about as interesting as watching paint dry.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Man if you think the market is screwed now you should have been around in the 80's. Its a cake walk now. All you have to do is some hunting and you can find almost anything. It cannot be done in one day though.
<< <i>Man if you think the market is screwed now you should have been around in the 80's. Its a cake walk now. All you have to do is some hunting and you can find almost anything. It cannot be done in one day though.
Get off your butt and explore some.
Ken >>
I've been going to major shows since the early 1970s, so yes I was around in the 1980s. I bought a lot of my core coins in the '80s including a Chain Cent, a 1796 quarter, a number of early half dimes and an 1806 half eagle. If find this period to be far more frustrating than the 1980s. Today the prices are sky high, and the supply of material for sale is the pits. During the previous booms if you were willing to pay the prices you could get the material. Today that's not always true. I've been looking for so mid 19th century type coins (as easy as a No Motto half dollar in Choice Unc or Proof) and come up empty. This is not a fun market.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
<< <i>Phil, come to moderns... Let me repeat: "Collect moderns". It really is stress relief >>
Unless you are buying cheep moderns, that statemnt is off the mark too. I'd much rather have $15K in Flowing Hair dollar than $4K in that over priced 1995-W silver eagle.
The other problem with moderns is if that is all you collect, you end up with a collection that is about as interesting as watching paint dry. >>
That's the beauty of collecting, Bill. I am not off the mark at all, nor is my statement (except in your opinion). Just because you would rather have a $15K classic coin as opposed to another person having a modern Silver Eagle set, or a few boxes of high grade Statehoods doesn't put me or anyone off the mark. There is no problem with moderns and there is nothing wrong with watching paint dry. If a collection is boring to you and the world, does it make it off the mark and boring to me or my grandchildren or any other person who collects "cheap" things ?
You know there is a lesson in life's day to day correspondences here, too.
If a coin, the price or the inability to find a coin at the right price are causing one stress and taking the fun out of being in, or around coins, then my suggestion is to "switch gears" or get out of the fast lane. Simple enough.
<< <i>It'd be fun if you understood that the fun is squeezed out of the hobby by unscrupulous dealers. What's there not to understand about his post? >>
HAHAHAHAHA, I think few people would consider Mr. Laibstain an "unscrupulous dealer." >>
Excuse me! I didn't mention any particular name. Don't ever use that kind of faulty logic with my threads, its insulting.
"Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world." PBShelley
<< <i>If a collection is boring to you and the world, does it make it off the mark and boring to me or my grandchildren or any other person who collects "cheap" things ? >>
Not everything that is cheap is boring. Civil war and Hard Times tokens used to be cheap. I have a number of pieces that I paid around $10 for years ago that are really wonderful items. Sadly today they are good deal more expensive.
You original point was that one could save the hastle dealing with wild prices that were well over the published amounts by collecting modern coins. My point is that situation should not drive people into collecting stuff they find dull.
I have a lot of modern coins. I've kept up with the Proof sets, and I have all of the modern commemorative coins, including all of the wooden box encased commemorative. I don't object to people collecting those pieces. It's just you should should chose to collect those coins because you enjoy them, not because you are afraid of collecting the older material.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Point made and I graciously concede. In truth, I was ribbing Phil (gecko) because he detests moderns ... I believe he's on record as saying anything past 1925 does not interest him.
Comments
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>Actually, I am sitting at cubicle at the Honda dealership. I just bought a Civic Hybrid.
My dad has one of those - it's a great car. Mom has a Prius, which is also great. Sometime in their 60s my parents went green - very green. At first I thought they were nuts; in reality they were ahead of the curve.
I understand what you are saying. However not all B&M dealers are the same. There are those who are fair and those who are not. I also dislike many of the things going on and have sold my coins. However I can tell you that there are honest and fair dealers out there. If you find one you do not like then just keep walking until you find one that suits your needs. In a free society, merchants by-in-large for the most part have a right to price goods as they see fit. So you, the consumer have a right to do business elsewhere. I believe that the power you have as a collector or investor is far greater than any dealer.
I also have been disappointed with things that I have seen in the industry, but again, their are many honest dealers out there.
As far as those who are complaining that Gecko is beating a dead horse, you too have the option to keep on walking. If you don't like the post, just move on. As long as Gecko complies with our hosts rules, he has a right to express his views. You don't have to like or agree with them, but might I suggest that you welcome his right to express his opinion, as it is that same right that allows yours to be heard.
Peace and good health to all.
Planchet
<< <i>
<< <i>OK since logic doesn't work, lets try this. Phil what happened? Why are you so bitter against the entire industry? Tell us the story on how/when you were totally screwed by a dealer that it your mission to complain about them 24/7. Maybe, if you answer these questions, we can get to the heart of your problem. >>
The heart of my "problem" is that greedy dealers such as yourself will offer maybe $145 on a common date IHC in 64RD, but refuse to sell the coin to the next guy for $200. You feel the need to squeeze every last drop of profit out of even the most common EASILY replaceable coins, with little to zero regard as to the customer's satisfaction. David, if you had a coin for sale that would be so difficult to replace that you may not have another for years, I can understand not wanting to leave any money on the table. But coins like the MS64RD IHC we talked about can be found everywhere. Thats a coin you could make your reasonable profit on and replace in a day or two. >>
As I PM'ed you long ago during the first of your many threads that mention this MS-64RD Indian cent, we did not pay ASK for this coin, which at the time was $160, we paid OVER ASK for it to be able to have it in inventory. I don't know where you come up with $145.
At the show you offered David $200 for the coin, as is your right. At that same show, he could have walked over and sold it to Rick Snow for $205. Instead, he counter-offered the coin to you at $215, as is his right. You passed, as is your right.
FWIW, the coin has sold off of our website at the original $230 price.
End of story.
Tom DeLorey
Harlan J. Berk, Ltd.
<< <i>But im talking about woefully underpriced coins such as flowing hair pieces, and even some draped bust material. >>
A few years ago, there might have been some truth to this statement, but no longer. The last Flowing Hair Dollar I purchased was in a PCGS EF-40 holder. The coin was original and even had some luster, but it cost me $15K. Sorry, but at that price the coin is not "woefully underprised" any more.
<< <i>Phil, come to moderns....
Let me repeat: "Collect moderns". It really is stress relief
Unless you are buying cheep moderns, that statemnt is off the mark too. I'd much rather have $15K in Flowing Hair dollar than $4K in that over priced 1995-W silver eagle.
The other problem with moderns is if that is all you collect, you end up with a collection that is about as interesting as watching paint dry.
<< <i>End of story. >>
I don't think I'd be taking any bets on that, but that's just me...
Get off your butt and explore some.
Ken
Camelot
<< <i>Man if you think the market is screwed now you should have been around in the 80's. Its a cake walk now. All you have to do is some hunting and you can find almost anything. It cannot be done in one day though.
Get off your butt and explore some.
Ken >>
I've been going to major shows since the early 1970s, so yes I was around in the 1980s. I bought a lot of my core coins in the '80s including a Chain Cent, a 1796 quarter, a number of early half dimes and an 1806 half eagle. If find this period to be far more frustrating than the 1980s. Today the prices are sky high, and the supply of material for sale is the pits. During the previous booms if you were willing to pay the prices you could get the material. Today that's not always true. I've been looking for so mid 19th century type coins (as easy as a No Motto half dollar in Choice Unc or Proof) and come up empty. This is not a fun market.
<< <i>
<< <i>Phil, come to moderns...
Let me repeat: "Collect moderns". It really is stress relief
Unless you are buying cheep moderns, that statemnt is off the mark too. I'd much rather have $15K in Flowing Hair dollar than $4K in that over priced 1995-W silver eagle.
The other problem with moderns is if that is all you collect, you end up with a collection that is about as interesting as watching paint dry.
That's the beauty of collecting, Bill. I am not off the mark at all, nor is my statement (except in your opinion). Just because you would rather have a $15K classic coin as opposed to another person having a modern Silver Eagle set, or a few boxes of high grade Statehoods doesn't put me or anyone off the mark.
There is no problem with moderns and there is nothing wrong with watching paint dry. If a collection is boring to you and the world, does it make it off the mark and boring to me or my grandchildren or any other person who collects "cheap" things ?
You know there is a lesson in life's day to day correspondences here, too.
If a coin, the price or the inability to find a coin at the right price are causing one stress and taking the fun out of being in, or around coins, then my suggestion is to "switch gears" or get out of the fast lane. Simple enough.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
<< <i>It'd be fun if you understood that the fun is squeezed out of the hobby by unscrupulous dealers. What's there not to understand about his post? >>
HAHAHAHAHA, I think few people would consider Mr. Laibstain an "unscrupulous dealer."
Excuse me! I didn't mention any particular name. Don't ever use that kind of faulty logic with my threads, its insulting.
<< <i>If a collection is boring to you and the world, does it make it off the mark and boring to me or my grandchildren or any other person who collects "cheap" things ? >>
Not everything that is cheap is boring. Civil war and Hard Times tokens used to be cheap. I have a number of pieces that I paid around $10 for years ago that are really wonderful items. Sadly today they are good deal more expensive.
You original point was that one could save the hastle dealing with wild prices that were well over the published amounts by collecting modern coins. My point is that situation should not drive people into collecting stuff they find dull.
I have a lot of modern coins. I've kept up with the Proof sets, and I have all of the modern commemorative coins, including all of the wooden box encased commemorative. I don't object to people collecting those pieces. It's just you should should chose to collect those coins because you enjoy them, not because you are afraid of collecting the older material.
Point made and I graciously concede. In truth, I was ribbing Phil (gecko) because he detests moderns ... I believe he's on record as saying anything past 1925 does not interest him.
Thanks for sharing,
Joe
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5