You can shear a sheep many times, but skin him just once!
gecko109
Posts: 8,231 ✭
Its in a dealer's blood to extract as much profit as possible from each transaction. Thats what they do. However, common sense would seem to dictate that they be fair to customers, and the customers will come back often. These days, it seems the dealers are swinging for the home run rip, and dont care about the satisfaction of the collector. This is a dangerous philosophy, and one that will steadily decrease their customer base. Afterall, how many new coin shops have you seen spring up in the past 10 years in your area? Furthermore, when you are in a shop, or show, how many SERIOUS collectors do you see in their 30's, or even 40's? This may become a dying hobby, and dealer greed is contributing to that in a very big way. There are a few coins where YES, throw the sheet out. But im talking about woefully underpriced coins such as flowing hair pieces, and even some draped bust material. But a common date indian cent in PCGS 64RD? Lets be real.
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<< <i>You can shear a sheep many times, but skin him just once! >>
And how many times can you beat a dead horse?
Jade Rare Coin eBay Listings
Are you EVER happy with prices, coin dealers, coin shop or show?????? It seems that you are not having any fun and remember that a hobby is supposed to be fun.........am I right?????
Let me repeat: "Collect moderns". It really is stress relief
<< <i>Hey gecko, this is supposed to be a hobby for fun and relaxation........after reading through your threads complaining about dealers, prices and everything else it would seem to me that you should stop collectiing coins and find another hobby...........
Are you EVER happy with prices, coin dealers, coin shop or show?????? It seems that you are not having any fun and remember that a hobby is supposed to be fun.........am I right?????
I was thrilled to buy this half dollar in PCGS 8 for well over double any printed price has it at.
I was also very pleased with buying this half dollar in PCGS VF30 for about three times any printed price.
And I was ecstatic to get this coin for $50 LESS than sheet. NGC 64.
Happy to buy this one for well above sheet also. PCGS 58.
But to pay way over sheet on common coins? Come on, you dont see the "game" dealers are trying to play? Open your eyes!
<< <i>And how many times can you beat a dead horse? >>
Good Lord, no kidding.
Seriously, Gecko, stop posting the same 3-4 coins daily. Nothing you post is rare or difficult to find. They're all widgets. Yes, even the 1795 Half is a widget...it can be found easily on any dealer's website. I'm not saying you're coins don't have eye appeal, they certainly do, but you're all over the place, man. Sometimes you're happy to pay over sheet, sometimes you're not. Ugh. How do you even enjoy this hobby? Or do you just enjoy b*tching all the time so you picked up coin collecting?
<< <i>
<< <i>And how many times can you beat a dead horse? >>
Good Lord, no kidding.
Seriously, Gecko, stop posting the same 3-4 coins daily. Nothing you post is rare or difficult to find. They're all widgets. Yes, even the 1795 Half is a widget...it can be found easily on any dealer's website. I'm not saying you're coins don't have eye appeal, they certainly do, but you're all over the place, man. Sometimes you're happy to pay over sheet, sometimes you're not. Ugh. How do you even enjoy this hobby? Or do you just enjoy b*tching all the time so you picked up coin collecting? >>
And an 1808 half cent, or a common date IHC in 64RD are both monster rarities? My point obviously escapes you. Im not tring to buy an 1894-S dime, or even a 1913-S quarter. Im trying to aquire a few very common coins, and wondering why they are priced so far above sheet. By the way, what coin would you like to see, since your sick of seeing the ones posted above? Any requests?
<< <i>And an 1808 half cent, or a common date IHC in 64RD are both monster rarities >>
It's called eye appeal.
Your point doesn't escape me, but the point that has been made by dozens of forum members in your multitude of posts obviously escapes you: if you don't like a coin, don't buy it. If you don't like a dealer, don't buy from them. I would say that if you don't understand how pricing works then you should learn....but anything anyone would try to tell you you'd just argue with.
Was there a question in there, or is this just a rant?
<< <i>OK since logic doesn't work, lets try this. Phil what happened? Why are you so bitter against the entire industry? Tell us the story on how/when you were totally screwed by a dealer that it your mission to complain about them 24/7. Maybe, if you answer these questions, we can get to the heart of your problem. >>
The heart of my "problem" is that greedy dealers such as yourself will offer maybe $145 on a common date IHC in 64RD, but refuse to sell the coin to the next guy for $200. You feel the need to squeeze every last drop of profit out of even the most common EASILY replaceable coins, with little to zero regard as to the customer's satisfaction. David, if you had a coin for sale that would be so difficult to replace that you may not have another for years, I can understand not wanting to leave any money on the table. But coins like the MS64RD IHC we talked about can be found everywhere. Thats a coin you could make your reasonable profit on and replace in a day or two.
<< <i>Interesting commentary on dealers. After all, I've NEVER seen a collector try to extract as much profit as possible from each transaction.
I routinely pay more than sheet or retail on my coins, and sell my dupes at routinely lower than sheet or retail. Im just a collector who isnt trying to make a profit, but rather trying not to be hurt. Is there something fundamentally wrong with that?
anyone wanna have a picnic ?
<< <i>Ah the beauty of live internet healing
anyone wanna have a picnic ? >>
I'll bring the steaks! My grocery store sells me a very decent ribeye for about $4.50 per. I will charge $9 per to those at our picnic. It shouldnt be that much of a foreign concept, right?
<< <i>
<< <i>Ah the beauty of live internet healing
anyone wanna have a picnic ? >>
I'll bring the steaks! My grocery store sells me a very decent ribeye for about $4.50 per. I will charge $9 per to those at our picnic. It shouldnt be that much of a foreign concept, right?
Let's get us a Pic-A-Nic basket, BooBoo
Brothers, any dealer worth his salt (where did that phrase come from anyway?) has to price a coin high enough to make a profit and low enough for it to sell. That's how they make a living. If you have a quality piece that they can turn over, I'm sure you will find a dealer willing to "stretch" for it. I sure don't envy them their day to day business of explaining to someone that that "very rare" Franklin Mint coin or the "just released hoard of rare state quarters" aren't worth anything.
gecko109, my advice would be for you to find a dealer you can trust and leave the rest alone.
<< <i>
<< <i>You can shear a sheep many times, but skin him just once! >>
And how many times can you beat a dead horse?
<< <i>Its in a dealer's blood to extract as much profit as possible from each transaction. Thats what they do. However, common sense would seem to dictate that they be fair to customers, and the customers will come back often. These days, it seems the dealers are swinging for the home run rip, and dont care about the satisfaction of the collector. This is a dangerous philosophy, and one that will steadily decrease their customer base. Afterall, how many new coin shops have you seen spring up in the past 10 years in your area? Furthermore, when you are in a shop, or show, how many SERIOUS collectors do you see in their 30's, or even 40's? This may become a dying hobby, and dealer greed is contributing to that in a very big way. There are a few coins where YES, throw the sheet out. But im talking about woefully underpriced coins such as flowing hair pieces, and even some draped bust material. But a common date indian cent in PCGS 64RD? Lets be real.
Was there a question in there, or is this just a rant? >>
I am not here to argue. However, for the benefit of the newbies or those not paying attention, this is my summary of events:
The original poster wrote about an incident at a bigger coin show. The dealer offered the coin at $230 which is at or below the average price realized on Teletrade and Ebay. The potential buyer counter offered at $200. The dealer countered with $215, which is a good bit below average price on Teletrade and Ebay, the potential buyer said pass. For these events the potential customer has been writing for ten days now in about five separate threads.
In my observation, to retail customers: PCGS Red Indians go for about $190 at the low end, $240 for average examples, $270 for slightly nicer examples, $400 and up for the really nice coins that might upgrade. I have posted multiple links for these completed auctions, and interested parties can go to Teletrade or similar sites and find them. If $200 was such a strong offer, why haven't multiple dealers and/or collectors offered decent coins to the original poster at that price, considering he has made about 100 posts on the subject during the past week or so? An objective observer might conclude that the lack of offers means that $200 isn't a strong offer for a common coin.
Dealer bashing is a popular sport on the forum. In some cases, for good cause, such as offering below melt for PCGS classic gold coins. However, in my opinion, in this case, the dealers in question have nothing to apologize for, and are being unfairly badgered over a non-event. Even if the coin was offered at $500 when average price is $240, what kind of person spends ten days writing post after post, thread after thread about it? Again, the coin at the larger show was the only one at that grade the customer could find on the bourse, and was offered for slightly less than the average price realized on Teletrade and Ebay. For that there is this thread and five others on the same topic. Readers, make of it what you will. I am not here to argue.
/edit typos
<< <i>Curly, I think it was Lott.
It could be an ancient saying as salary is derived from the latin word for salt. Hence "any dealer worth his salary".....
That is excellent advice. I increasingly do not feel the need to deal with everyone. I have one or two go to people in each of the categories I collect. If I see a coin in Harry Laibstain's inventory, for example, I would have a preferred dealer go after it, rather than doing so myself. 95% or more of my numismatic dollars go to these regulars.
This how I feel about the mints pricing
I was a Monkey
Prices nowadays are typically high... I agree with you there. But that's because the market is hot. It's not because dealers are the greedy villains you play them up to be. It's because everything cheap is bought up quickly.
<< <i>gecko109, my advice would be for you to find a dealer you can trust and leave the rest alone.
That is excellent advice. I increasingly do not feel the need to deal with everyone. I have one or two go to people in each of the categories I collect. If I see a coin in Harry Laibstain's inventory, for example, I would have a preferred dealer go after it, rather than doing so myself. 95% or more of my numismatic dollars go to these regulars. >>
Man RYK, just when you and I were on the road to recovery, here comes something you dont like to talk about....MONEY. Would it be completely fair to say that getting a few of these "go to men" would be substantially difficult for the collector who spends maybe $50/month on coins on average? What about $200/month? How about $500? At what dollar number in regards to a coin buying budget does it become impractical to have these "coin agents" that you speak of? In case you arent clear on what im asking, lets assume that a person who spends the princely sum of perhaps $2,500/month on coins on average will have almost no problems finding one of these "agents" to work on their behalf. However, would that same "agent" work for a guy who spends maybe $200/month on coins on average? I hate to make this about money, but this is the real world.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
Do you just need the attention?
By that logic, there would be tons of markets crashing due to greedy businessmen trying to make money.
I'd also like to say that two of your gems appear cleaned and the IHC has PVC on the dentils.
Edited to add, nice ewe you've got there Broadstruck.
-D
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
<< <i>
<< <i>gecko109, my advice would be for you to find a dealer you can trust and leave the rest alone.
That is excellent advice. I increasingly do not feel the need to deal with everyone. I have one or two go to people in each of the categories I collect. If I see a coin in Harry Laibstain's inventory, for example, I would have a preferred dealer go after it, rather than doing so myself. 95% or more of my numismatic dollars go to these regulars. >>
Man RYK, just when you and I were on the road to recovery, here comes something you dont like to talk about....MONEY. Would it be completely fair to say that getting a few of these "go to men" would be substantially difficult for the collector who spends maybe $50/month on coins on average? What about $200/month? How about $500? At what dollar number in regards to a coin buying budget does it become impractical to have these "coin agents" that you speak of? In case you arent clear on what im asking, lets assume that a person who spends the princely sum of perhaps $2,500/month on coins on average will have almost no problems finding one of these "agents" to work on their behalf. However, would that same "agent" work for a guy who spends maybe $200/month on coins on average? I hate to make this about money, but this is the real world. >>
Its not a money thing, it is an attitude thing. I have plenty of people ($50 a month to thousands a month) who I am their only source of coins and they come to me with what they want found. They have one thing in common. They are all nice polite people who are worthy of getting the best service). The problem is that for me to deal with a person like you, no amount of money would make it worth my time. BTW, the dead horse is paying 50-1 in the derby.
<< <i>
<< <i>gecko109, my advice would be for you to find a dealer you can trust and leave the rest alone.
That is excellent advice. I increasingly do not feel the need to deal with everyone. I have one or two go to people in each of the categories I collect. If I see a coin in Harry Laibstain's inventory, for example, I would have a preferred dealer go after it, rather than doing so myself. 95% or more of my numismatic dollars go to these regulars. >>
Man RYK, just when you and I were on the road to recovery, here comes something you dont like to talk about....MONEY. Would it be completely fair to say that getting a few of these "go to men" would be substantially difficult for the collector who spends maybe $50/month on coins on average? What about $200/month? How about $500? At what dollar number in regards to a coin buying budget does it become impractical to have these "coin agents" that you speak of? In case you arent clear on what im asking, lets assume that a person who spends the princely sum of perhaps $2,500/month on coins on average will have almost no problems finding one of these "agents" to work on their behalf. However, would that same "agent" work for a guy who spends maybe $200/month on coins on average? I hate to make this about money, but this is the real world. >>
Sorry, man, no time for a reply. I am test driving Bentleys this afternoon.
If you don't like paying the juice, deal directly with other collectors ie. BS&T forum.
Garrow
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>gecko109, my advice would be for you to find a dealer you can trust and leave the rest alone.
That is excellent advice. I increasingly do not feel the need to deal with everyone. I have one or two go to people in each of the categories I collect. If I see a coin in Harry Laibstain's inventory, for example, I would have a preferred dealer go after it, rather than doing so myself. 95% or more of my numismatic dollars go to these regulars. >>
Man RYK, just when you and I were on the road to recovery, here comes something you dont like to talk about....MONEY. Would it be completely fair to say that getting a few of these "go to men" would be substantially difficult for the collector who spends maybe $50/month on coins on average? What about $200/month? How about $500? At what dollar number in regards to a coin buying budget does it become impractical to have these "coin agents" that you speak of? In case you arent clear on what im asking, lets assume that a person who spends the princely sum of perhaps $2,500/month on coins on average will have almost no problems finding one of these "agents" to work on their behalf. However, would that same "agent" work for a guy who spends maybe $200/month on coins on average? I hate to make this about money, but this is the real world. >>
Sorry, man, no time for a reply. I am test driving Bentleys this afternoon.
What is the "sheet number" on that one?????? I wonder if your Bentley dealer is making a profit...I think yes.....
Actually, I am sitting at cubicle at the Honda dealership. I just bought a Civic Hybrid.
MPG?
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Actually, I am sitting at cubicle at the Honda dealership. I just bought a Civic Hybrid
MPG? >>
Darkside
<< <i>Actually, I am sitting at cubicle at the Honda dealership. I just bought a Civic Hybrid.
I'll race you in my focus.
<< <i>Actually, I am sitting at cubicle at the Honda dealership. I just bought a Civic Hybrid
MPG? >>
40/45
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
<< <i>Hey gecko, this is supposed to be a hobby for fun and relaxation........after reading through your threads complaining about dealers, prices and everything else it would seem to me that you should stop collectiing coins and find another hobby...........
Are you EVER happy with prices, coin dealers, coin shop or show?????? It seems that you are not having any fun and remember that a hobby is supposed to be fun.........am I right?????
It'd be fun if you understood that the fun is squeezed out of the hobby by unscrupulous dealers. What's there not to understand about his post?
<< <i>It'd be fun if you understood that the fun is squeezed out of the hobby by unscrupulous dealers. What's there not to understand about his post? >>
HAHAHAHAHA, I think few people would consider Mr. Laibstain an "unscrupulous dealer."