<< <i> would though, in the future, keep PM's private. I would never post a PM without prior approval of the sender, but that's just me. jws >>
99% of the time I would agree with that, but when a member tries to bully or intimidate another member, the privacy ends. If anybody on here got obnoxious with me via PM, I'd out them in a heartbeat. One of the reasons I hang out here is that after literally thousands of PM's and messages with other members, it has never, ever happened. For the most part we handle ourselves like a bunch of gentlemen. Anybody who chooses to do otherwise with me should not count on me to keep their secret for them. >>
Just about everything I could say has been said already, so I'll keep it short. I think one of the Forums greatest strengths is it's like-minded individuals that understand the nuances of the hobby. Sounds like this guy wants EBAY policies for buyers in place on the BST! NO!
<< <i> would though, in the future, keep PM's private. I would never post a PM without prior approval of the sender, but that's just me. jws >>
99% of the time I would agree with that, but when a member tries to bully or intimidate another member, the privacy ends. If anybody on here got obnoxious with me via PM, I'd out them in a heartbeat. One of the reasons I hang out here is that after literally thousands of PM's and messages with other members, it has never, ever happened. For the most part we handle ourselves like a bunch of gentlemen. Anybody who chooses to do otherwise with me should not count on me to keep their secret for them. >>
Just about everything I could say has been said already, so I'll keep it short. I think one of the Forums greatest strengths is it's like-minded individuals that understand the nuances of the hobby. Sounds like this guy wants EBAY policies for buyers in place on the BST! NO! >>
Hohoho........ If obnoxious or rude were the criteria, I could out a lot of a-holes. One in particular very recently and he claims to be a dealer as well.
I think he enjoys specializing in different ways to call people names and make accusations and it doesn't need to be on the BST. Just regular posts here will do it. I tried to be reasonable, waste of time, but it gave him more ammunition to attack me. No, I'm not posting any PMs. Just a personal rule there.
I sincerely hope he sets up at shows in the future, I'd love the privilege of meeting him in person.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
and ... I remember your ad ... you also had some silver for sale correct?
The same picture of your bust was on eBay Sunday night ... of that I am 99.8% sure ... unfortunately I did not save it to my watch list.
Why do I know this. First, your prices were good ... maybe even better than good. I admired the Bust half a bit while I was contimplating the silver. I decided to pass because I am pursuuing other things, and then saw the bust (same picture) that night when I was doing my searches. I thought you had listed it there.
One of our sleuths can probably find it if it was up (or still is). Again, I am pretty certain.
ps ... commoncents ... yes, that's him
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
and ... I remember your ad ... you also had some silver for sale correct?
The same picture of your bust was on eBay Sunday night ... of that I am 99.8% sure ... unfortunately I did not save it to my watch list.
Why do I know this. First, your prices were good ... maybe even better than good. I admired the Bust half a bit while I was contimplating the silver. I decided to pass because I am pursuuing other things, and then saw the bust (same picture) that night when I was doing my searches. I thought you had listed it there.
One of our sleuths can probably find it if it was up (or still is). Again, I am pretty certain.
ps ... commoncents ... yes, that's him >>
I definitely never posted the coin to ebay. I didn't want to "out" the person simply because I didn't think it would be fair to post their PM's without express permission, however it seems as though it has been figured out.
The item was originally purchased about a month or two ago off ebay however for the gentleman by an aquaintance of mine. Perhaps that is when you remember seeing it?
I'm with you dmb. The offer was never accepted by you. Transaction not put into action. When I sell and someone says the're interested I send back an email asking for confirmation one more time that they're interested and when they once again say they want it at the agreed price then I consider it sold and I'm obligated to send it.
<< <i>If so, he needs a bar refresher - advertising is not an offer, merely an invitation to make offers. Since the coin's owner did not accept the individual's offer to purchase, no enforceable agreement to sell/purchase the coin was consummated on these facts. >>
That's absolutely correct. If this individual is a lawyer, he should know this. Shame!
Even if a price was listed, it sounds like all it really was someone PMing saying "I'll take it, tell me where to send the money". Let me say that when I put some stuff on the BST, there are some folks I will NOT sell to. So, I don't care if they say "I accept your price, tell me where to send the money", they aren't doing business with me.
Same thing here, but the looks of it......even if someone said "I'll accept", unless it is CONFIRMED by the selling party, there is NO SALE.
I had a bit of an agreement to buy some stuff a week or so ago, but myself and the seller were taking our time. My last PM to him he responds he got a deal for the full lot and sold it. No big deal, I thanked him and we move on. We had a so so agreement and still no big deal. How can someone think a listing is a contract. I really like the BST and dont like hearing about stories like this.
Just because they made you an offer doesn't mean you are committed to sell. You haven't done anything wrong, so tell them you would be happy to review the case with the board moderators.
"Just because they made you an offer doesn't mean you are committed to sell."
Last comment from me.... The above statement, while surely well-intended, is not correct. If you make an offer, do not retract the offer prior to acceptance and the offer is accepted you have a contract.
And, no, the OP did not offer the courtesy of asking if I was cool with her posting what I assumed to be PM's.
B/S/T board has it's problems from time to time. Was an offer for proofs posted. I replied I'd take them. No PM back. Sent second message. No reply. Week went by then receive PM stating seller just never checked PM's after listing on B/S/T board HOWEVER they were now for sale on eBay and I could bid if I wanted. ????? Nice but cleaned AU Seated Liberty Dollar was listed B/S/T. I replied within the first couple of hours I'd be a buyer. Reply received-the seller had changed thier mind. ????
I have had many other great transactions and have "met" some nice people on the B/S/T board. Sometimes it works great sometimes it just doesn't work out. No hard feeling on the busted deals though.
I'd like to clarify a few things: 1. I never listed the item as being for sale here only. I did list it as FSH. 2. I did have someone who indicated before James that if the coin was available, they would like to purchase it. I had to tell them the same thing I told James. After James said the coin was his, I told him that even had the gentleman not backed out of the transaction, that I would have been obligated to the first individual. 3. As such, I never accepted an offer.
As far as I'm concerned this is a non-issue at this point in time. I never intended for this to be such an issue in the first place.
The listing was retracted, no money changed hands, and no commitment to sell was confirmed. Why make a Federal case over it?
Even if dmb411 agreed to complete the transaction and the consignor back out, I would say c'est la vie and move on. Threatening legal action over such a trivial matter reflects poorly on the complainant, IMO.
This seller listed at a fixed price and has sold coins here before. She said it was for sale here only. I was the first to agree to buy the coin.
Then the seller said the consignor did not want to sell....
Then she implied she already had a buyer even though it was listed for sale here only.
Maybe I overreacted but the buyer frankly seemed to me to be making up a story about this mystery consignor. >>
Once there is an offer and an acceptance, there is an agreement. You made the offer to purchase and the seller did not accept ergo, no deal. I can appreciate the disappointment but there is no enforceable agreement under these facts.
Actually, there are three components to a contract... offer, acceptance and consideration. Central to consideration is a mutual exchange of something of value... here is where this "contract" fell apart ...ergo, there was no "contract".
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
<< <i>Actually, there are three components to a contract... offer, acceptance and consideration. Central to consideration is a mutual exchange of something of value... here is where this "contract" fell apart ...ergo, there was no "contract". >>
Well, no. There was no acceptance. Consideration is not an issue here.
I'm staying out of this, but there is one guy I'll avoid on the BST from now on.
Ya know, many many years ago, Tassa, I'm sure you all know her, listed a nice toned early SLQ on the BST at a fair but not cheap price.
I jumped on it immediately. We had a deal, a verbal contract on both sides and if I recall, a a paypal payment made.
The next day she PM'd me with seller's remorse. I said no problem, keep it, I understood.
I did ask her that if she decided to sell in the future to give me the first shot and she agreed.
6 months or so later, I got a PM and I got the coin. Same price.
That's how we are supposed to do things around here.
We're all different, but we all share one particular interest in common and in that sense, we are a family.
I trust Tassa won't mind me re-telling that tale from years ago as an example. Somehow, I'm sure she won't.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
he could go back to the owner of the coin and say, hey, I got this guy who said he'd buy it between the time you contacted me and the time I got back to the board to withdraw the coin. What says you?
"Poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world." PBShelley
Comments
edited to add: manners
<< <i>
<< <i> would though, in the future, keep PM's private. I would never post a PM without prior approval of the sender, but that's just me. jws
>>
99% of the time I would agree with that, but when a member tries to bully or intimidate another member, the privacy ends. If anybody on here got obnoxious with me via PM, I'd out them in a heartbeat. One of the reasons I hang out here is that after literally thousands of PM's and messages with other members, it has never, ever happened. For the most part we handle ourselves like a bunch of gentlemen. Anybody who chooses to do otherwise with me should not count on me to keep their secret for them. >>
Just about everything I could say has been said already, so I'll keep it short. I think one of the Forums greatest strengths is it's like-minded individuals that understand the nuances of the hobby. Sounds like this guy wants EBAY policies for buyers in place on the BST! NO!
commoncents123, JrGMan2004, Coll3ctor (2), Dabigkahuna, BAJJERFAN, Boom, GRANDAM, newsman, cohodk, kklambo, seateddime, ajia, mirabela, Weather11am, keepdachange, gsa1fan, cone10
-------------------------
<< <i>Interesting thing about that is that if Paul is correct with the link he posted, the guy is a lawyer.
Russ, NCNE >>
Then he is an idiot lawyer. What competent attorney threatens to sue over that?
<< <i>So, did we establish who this jerkoff is? If so, did anyone forward him a linkyroo to this thread? >>
A link in a post on page 1 of this thread to a thread in the B/S/T board casts a shadow over board member jamesfsm.
If it is not jamesfsm that was involved with dmb411 then I hope the OP clears up who it isn't so no undue daggers are thrown.
If it is jamesfsm, well, that's who it is.
Jerry
If it is not jamesfsm that was involved with dmb411 then I hope the OP clears up who it isn't so no undue daggers are thrown.
If it is jamesfsm, well, that's who it is."
Jerry
Excellent point. jws
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i> would though, in the future, keep PM's private. I would never post a PM without prior approval of the sender, but that's just me. jws
>>
99% of the time I would agree with that, but when a member tries to bully or intimidate another member, the privacy ends. If anybody on here got obnoxious with me via PM, I'd out them in a heartbeat. One of the reasons I hang out here is that after literally thousands of PM's and messages with other members, it has never, ever happened. For the most part we handle ourselves like a bunch of gentlemen. Anybody who chooses to do otherwise with me should not count on me to keep their secret for them. >>
Just about everything I could say has been said already, so I'll keep it short. I think one of the Forums greatest strengths is it's like-minded individuals that understand the nuances of the hobby. Sounds like this guy wants EBAY policies for buyers in place on the BST! NO! >>
Hohoho........ If obnoxious or rude were the criteria, I could out a lot of a-holes. One in particular very recently and he claims to be a dealer as well.
I think he enjoys specializing in different ways to call people names and make accusations and it doesn't need to be on the BST. Just regular posts here will do it. I tried to be reasonable, waste of time, but it gave him more ammunition to attack me. No, I'm not posting any PMs. Just a personal rule there.
I sincerely hope he sets up at shows in the future, I'd love the privilege of meeting him in person.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
and ... I remember your ad ... you also had some silver for sale correct?
The same picture of your bust was on eBay Sunday night ... of that I am 99.8% sure ... unfortunately I did not save it to my watch list.
Why do I know this. First, your prices were good ... maybe even better than good. I admired the Bust half a bit while I was contimplating the silver. I decided to pass because I am pursuuing other things, and then saw the bust (same picture) that night when I was doing my searches. I thought you had listed it there.
One of our sleuths can probably find it if it was up (or still is). Again, I am pretty certain.
ps ... commoncents ... yes, that's him
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
<< <i>dmb ... you are not off base ...
and ... I remember your ad ... you also had some silver for sale correct?
The same picture of your bust was on eBay Sunday night ... of that I am 99.8% sure ... unfortunately I did not save it to my watch list.
Why do I know this. First, your prices were good ... maybe even better than good. I admired the Bust half a bit while I was contimplating the silver. I decided to pass because I am pursuuing other things, and then saw the bust (same picture) that night when I was doing my searches. I thought you had listed it there.
One of our sleuths can probably find it if it was up (or still is). Again, I am pretty certain.
ps ... commoncents ... yes, that's him >>
I definitely never posted the coin to ebay. I didn't want to "out" the person simply because I didn't think it would be fair to post their PM's without express permission, however it seems as though it has been figured out.
The item was originally purchased about a month or two ago off ebay however for the gentleman by an aquaintance of mine. Perhaps that is when you remember seeing it?
my memory is almost photographic, so I doubt the latter is the case
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Personally, I will always let a seller off the
hook if they have a change of mind on the BST.
However, If a coin is offered at a price and
that offer is accepted, without conditions, before
the coin is withdrawn, then I would say the the
buyer has the coin. The owner off the coin and the
seller friend ,did not act in time before the deal was done.
It may be that the buyer is a hard ass and not very
sociable or understanding, but I believe that the coin
should be the buyers. Now before the flame throwers get
ignited, this is just my opinion and not a legal writ from the
Supreme Court. After all, what the heck do I know, I'' just
an old bear.(Get Ready, Aim, Fire)
Camelot
The offer was never accepted IMO.
that a price was stated
and accepted?
Camelot
Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin
#1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
<< <i>If so, he needs a bar refresher - advertising is not an offer, merely an invitation to make offers. Since the coin's owner did not accept the individual's offer to purchase, no enforceable agreement to sell/purchase the coin was consummated on these facts. >>
That's absolutely correct. If this individual is a lawyer, he should know this. Shame!
<< <i>I was under the impression
that a price was stated
and accepted? >>
Even if a price was listed, it sounds like all it really was someone PMing saying "I'll take it, tell me where to send the money".
Let me say that when I put some stuff on the BST, there are some folks I will NOT sell to. So, I don't care if they say "I accept your price, tell me where to send the money", they aren't doing business with me.
Same thing here, but the looks of it......even if someone said "I'll accept", unless it is CONFIRMED by the selling party, there is NO SALE.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I wasn't involved. commoncents (first page) found the listing, which has since been edited.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Camelot
<< <i>loooooooooooool. wow, he must have really really really wanted that coin! >>
I thought the coin was a steal of a deal and I ALMOST bought it the first 5 minutes it was up.
The twit probably felt the same way and is upset that he didn't get the RIP.
You guys are fast to jump to conclusions.
This seller listed at a fixed price and has sold coins here before. She said it was for sale here only. I was the first to agree to buy the coin.
Then the seller said the consignor did not want to sell....
Then she implied she already had a buyer even though it was listed for sale here only.
Maybe I overreacted but the buyer frankly seemed to me to be making up a story about this mystery consignor.
Coin is offered at a fixed price.
Offer accepted.
Contract.
If it is subject to prior sale, a consignor who may get cold feet or somethiing else you say so.
<< <i>I am the would be buyer.
You guys are fast to jump to conclusions.
This seller listed at a fixed price and has sold coins here before. She said it was for sale here only. I was the first to agree to buy the coin.
Then the seller said the consignor did not want to sell....
Then she implied she already had a buyer even though it was listed for sale here only.
Maybe I overreacted but the buyer frankly seemed to me to be making up a story about this mystery consignor. >>
I think the mob mentality might be taking over here. I'll echo what TomB said - no harm, no foul.
You guys are fast to jump to conclusions.
This seller listed at a fixed price and has sold coins here before. She said it was for sale here only. I was the first to agree to buy the coin.
Then the seller said the consignor did not want to sell....
Then she implied she already had a buyer even though it was listed for sale here only.
Maybe I overreacted but the buyer frankly seemed to me to be making up a story about this mystery consignor.
Maybe I overreacted but the buyer frankly seemed to me to be making up a story about this mystery consignor.
Dude, if the OP posted your PMs word for word, you more than overreacted IMO. And, IMO, you are an a..h...
Whether the OP had cold feet, or the consigner did ... doesn't matter. No done deal.
And ... if you care to share ... did you list it on eBay before the deal was done?
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
It surprises me that Bear's words of wisdom are not being heeded. This seller, irrespective of her later commentary, had made a contract.
Last comment from me.... The above statement, while surely well-intended, is not correct. If you make an offer, do not retract the offer prior to acceptance and the offer is accepted you have a contract.
And, no, the OP did not offer the courtesy of asking if I was cool with her posting what I assumed to be PM's.
It surprises me that Bear's words of wisdom are not being heeded. This seller, irrespective of her later commentary, had made a contract.
I need to make sure that first part doesn't get editted ...
As for the second part ... can you please explain to me, a layman (educated one, but still a layman) ... how exactly she made this contract with you?
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Was an offer for proofs posted. I replied I'd take them. No PM back. Sent second message. No reply. Week went by then receive PM stating seller just never checked PM's after listing on B/S/T board HOWEVER they were now for sale on eBay and I could bid if I wanted. ?????
Nice but cleaned AU Seated Liberty Dollar was listed B/S/T. I replied within the first couple of hours I'd be a buyer. Reply received-the seller had changed thier mind. ????
I have had many other great transactions and have "met" some nice people on the B/S/T board. Sometimes it works great sometimes it just doesn't work out. No hard feeling on the busted deals though.
1. I never listed the item as being for sale here only. I did list it as FSH.
2. I did have someone who indicated before James that if the coin was available, they would like to purchase it. I had to tell them the same thing I told James. After James said the coin was his, I told him that even had the gentleman not backed out of the transaction, that I would have been obligated to the first individual.
3. As such, I never accepted an offer.
As far as I'm concerned this is a non-issue at this point in time. I never intended for this to be such an issue in the first place.
Also tell him he'd have better luck crying to Mommy as opposed to complaining to the "BST Moderator at PCGS"
Geez Louise!
Dave
The listing was retracted, no money changed hands, and no commitment to sell was confirmed. Why make a Federal case over it?
Even if dmb411 agreed to complete the transaction and the consignor back out, I would say c'est la vie and move on. Threatening legal action over such a trivial matter reflects poorly on the complainant, IMO.
<< <i>I am the would be buyer.
You guys are fast to jump to conclusions.
This seller listed at a fixed price and has sold coins here before. She said it was for sale here only. I was the first to agree to buy the coin.
Then the seller said the consignor did not want to sell....
Then she implied she already had a buyer even though it was listed for sale here only.
Maybe I overreacted but the buyer frankly seemed to me to be making up a story about this mystery consignor. >>
Once there is an offer and an acceptance, there is an agreement. You made the offer to purchase and the seller did not accept ergo, no deal. I can appreciate the disappointment but there is no enforceable agreement under these facts.
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
I have enjoyed the intellectual exchange as well
as the various views of legality, ethics and morality.
The BST is more an informal market place where good
fellowship, easygoing manner and a forgiving nature are
all highly prized by both buyers and sellers. Sometimes
good people can get angry ,as well as frustrated and give
vent to the written word. Even we placid bears have been
known to growl once in a while.
All in all, a rather diminutive event on the world scene. It has
had it's moment and now must pass, as a thistle wind born.
Camelot
<< <i>Actually, there are three components to a contract... offer, acceptance and consideration. Central to consideration is a mutual exchange of something of value... here is where this "contract" fell apart ...ergo, there was no "contract". >>
Well, no. There was no acceptance. Consideration is not an issue here.
I'm beginning to wonder.
Ya know, many many years ago, Tassa, I'm sure you all know her, listed a nice toned early SLQ on the BST at a fair but not cheap price.
I jumped on it immediately. We had a deal, a verbal contract on both sides and if I recall, a a paypal payment made.
The next day she PM'd me with seller's remorse. I said no problem, keep it, I understood.
I did ask her that if she decided to sell in the future to give me the first shot and she agreed.
6 months or so later, I got a PM and I got the coin. Same price.
That's how we are supposed to do things around here.
We're all different, but we all share one particular interest in common and in that sense, we are a family.
I trust Tassa won't mind me re-telling that tale from years ago as an example. Somehow, I'm sure she won't.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
On the ethics side, if money exchanged hands, then I could understand his point and gripe but that didn't happen.
and highly competitive in nature. Perhaps it should not
be all these things, but alas !
Camelot
<< <i>I'm staying out of this, but there is one guy I'll avoid on the BST from now on.
Ya know, many many years ago, Tassa, I'm sure you all know her, listed a nice toned early SLQ on the BST at a fair but not cheap price.
I jumped on it immediately. We had a deal, a verbal contract on both sides and if I recall, a a paypal payment made.
The next day she PM'd me with seller's remorse. I said no problem, keep it, I understood.
I did ask her that if she decided to sell in the future to give me the first shot and she agreed.
6 months or so later, I got a PM and I got the coin. Same price.
That's how we are supposed to do things around here.
We're all different, but we all share one particular interest in common and in that sense, we are a family.
I trust Tassa won't mind me re-telling that tale from years ago as an example. Somehow, I'm sure she won't. >>
well said, I couldn't agree with you more
Proud recipient of two "You Suck" awards
<< <i>
Tah -Dum!
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso