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Most Undervalued, Mostly Likely to Appreciate
Planchet
Posts: 294
Here is a question for those who either collect or those that "invest" in coins. In your personal opinion, name the specific coin currently available today for under $2000 that you believe is the most undervalued and then also name the specific coin currently available today for under $2000 that you believe will yield the best return over the next 5 years. Please include the specific denomination, date, grade, whether you recommend a TPG or raw. Here is the rub, also please explain why you picked each of the coins.
Please understand I am NOT looking for personal recommendations but rather I am interested to see the diversity of opinions of those who post on this forum. I think the reasoning behind your choices is more important and more interesting than the selection you make.
Happy Weekend
Planchet
Please understand I am NOT looking for personal recommendations but rather I am interested to see the diversity of opinions of those who post on this forum. I think the reasoning behind your choices is more important and more interesting than the selection you make.
Happy Weekend
Planchet
0
Comments
Russ, NCNE
Help educate me.
Planchet
As for me, I've been going with high end PL and DMPL CC Morgans, they are fairly rare in the higher grades, but many can still be had for prices in your range, I think they are only going to go up. With the rarer dates, you will have to spend more than your 2K limit, but I think they are a solid coin for the money and they continue to appreciate in value. I've had a couple nearly double in the last 2 years and they don't seem to be slowing down.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
back to your orignal confines though i like the 1916 matte proof buffalo or matte proof lincoln as they can border the 2k limit with nothing but up to go as early teen popular design proof coinage comes of age
;-)
<< <i>In checking the book, the mintage exceed 2 million for both 1965 and 1966. Where the percentage that were Deep Cameo abnormally low >>
The 1965 and SMS Jefferson Nickels are rare in Deep Cameo. Combined for both years PCGS has granted the DCAM designation to 55 examples at all grade levels, and they only grade a small handful each year. They are rarer than the SMS Kennedys from the same years, and the Kennedys bring significantly more money in the current market.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>2003-W First Flight uncirculated $10 Gold commemorative!!! mintage 10,127 >>
I've got one of those in the mint package that I paid bullion price for shortly after they were released.
I've never considered it more than bullion. Maybe I should reconsider.
I didn't buy it for the coin, just for the gold.
What are they worth now?
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>In checking the book, the mintage exceed 2 million for both 1965 and 1966. Where the percentage that were Deep Cameo abnormally low >>
The 1965 and SMS Jefferson Nickels are rare in Deep Cameo. Combined for both years PCGS has granted the DCAM designation to 55 examples at all grade levels, and they only grade a small handful each year. They are rarer than the SMS Kennedys from the same years, and the Kennedys bring significantly more money in the current market.
Russ, NCNE >>
Thanks Russ, you are a fine teacher, I learned something new
Planchet
<< <i>Quality graded GSA Morgans in their original packaging have appreciated greatly over the last few years.
As for me, I've been going with high end PL and DMPL CC Morgans, they are fairly rare in the higher grades, but many can still be had for prices in your range, I think they are only going to go up. With the rarer dates, you will have to spend more than your 2K limit, but I think they are a solid coin for the money and they continue to appreciate in value. I've had a couple nearly double in the last 2 years and they don't seem to be slowing down. >>
Deadhorse, I do not own any PL or DMPL CC Morgans but they sure are beautiful and it appears from your post that they have done well for you. Thank you for your comments
Planchet
<< <i>
<< <i>In checking the book, the mintage exceed 2 million for both 1965 and 1966. Where the percentage that were Deep Cameo abnormally low >>
The 1965 and SMS Jefferson Nickels are rare in Deep Cameo. Combined for both years PCGS has granted the DCAM designation to 55 examples at all grade levels, and they only grade a small handful each year. They are rarer than the SMS Kennedys from the same years, and the Kennedys bring significantly more money in the current market.
Russ, NCNE >>
A question on value. In looking at Heritag's Auction Site
http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=444&Lot_No=458&src=pr
LinkLink
the auction prices for the 1965 5C SMS MS66 Deep Cameo PCGS appear to have a wide price variance. If you wanted one, how do you pin down a fair value?
Planchet
Choice gold from various states from India.
Early choice south American crowns and gold.
Mideast coins struck at the Paris mint.
Original high grade Pillar dollars.
There is a growing base of collectors worldwide connected by the internet and these countries collectors are real growing fast.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>1965 and 1966 PCGS graded Deep Cameo graded SMS Jefferson Nickels. They are severely undervalued relative to other moderns of similar rarity.
Russ, NCNE >>
russ nailed that one
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
<< <i>A question on value. In looking at Heritag's Auction Site
http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=444&Lot_No=458&src=pr
LinkLink
the auction prices for the 1965 5C SMS MS66 Deep Cameo PCGS appear to have a wide price variance. If you wanted one, how do you pin down a fair value? >>
Well, let me put it this way. The $1380 that coin brought is about half the current market value of the Kennedy in the same grade. There are fewer Kennedys in 66DCAM, but the overall pop for the year is 31, while the pop for the Jefferson is only 24.
Russ, NCNE
Compare this coin with the Jackie Robinson $5 uncirculated gold, mintage 5,174, selling at over $4,000. The Wheelchair Athlete coin has nearly 3 times the mintage of the Robinson, but I would guess that at least 3 times as many people collect modern commemorative silver dollars as the number that collect modern commemorative gold. So from a supply-demand standpoint, I would have expected the prices for the two coins to be somewhat comparable. Another point in its favor - the Wheelchair Athlete dollar has a different mintmark than its 1996-P proof counterpart, whereas the Robinson gold has the same "W" mintmark for both the uncirculated and proof versions.
Best return over next 5 years - 2006-P Reverse Proof American Silver Eagle, either TPG PF69 or raw. It's the type key of the popular ASE series, and at 250K it's the second lowest mintage ASE period. Part of the popular 20th Anniversary set. Available at $225-$250, not much more than the 1994-P proof silver eagle, which has 50% higher mintage and is not a type coin. The 2006-P was widely distributed due to a 10-set order limit, which makes it less likely for large hoards to be overhanging the market.
The 2006-W uncirculated gold and platinum coins have low mintages also, but rising bullion costs limits their affordability and future returns.
My opinion only.
Supply has for now out-stripped demand and depressed prices severely.
This newly publicized unique Ike RDV will be hard for published guides and TPGs to ignore for five years.
After 12 man-years of high-intensity searching for this variety, the Ike Group believes its mintage is comparable to the 1972 Type 2 and its PCGS grades on average one grade better but even MS65 is hard to make (we have subbed a goodly number, the majority come back 63 with fewer 64's and occasional 65's), MS66 is rare and to date we have not located one MS67. Rob
Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE
"A car is a tool that takes you from one place to another. Everything beyond that is a payment for other people's perception of you."
<< <i>Long term sleepers may be the 1999 $5 and $10 MS gold eagles struck with unpolished proof dies. Not real cheap right now, but based on estimated mintages they could very well be undervalued. >>
Pcgs dropped their values on them a week or so ago. Perhaps just part of the cycle. Don't see them all that often.
<< <i>Best return over next 5 years - 2006-P Reverse Proof American Silver Eagle, either TPG PF69 or raw. It's the type key of the popular ASE series, and at 250K it's the second lowest mintage ASE period. Part of the popular 20th Anniversary set. Available at $225-$250, not much more than the 1994-P proof silver eagle, which has 50% higher mintage and is not a type coin. The 2006-P was widely distributed due to a 10-set order limit, which makes it less likely for large hoards to be overhanging the market... >>
Overdate, interesting comment. I have a question. I do not collect or own any ASEs. But the people that do collexct them in proof, do they consider the reverse proof part of the regular set? What I mean is whether those that have been collecting the regular proof ASEs, will many of them not collect the reverse proof because it is different than the rest of the set. If so, this would reduce the demand. If half do not collect it, then its price would not be that much off from the 1994-P. This is a question, not a statement or opinion, again I do not collect them but I am interested to know your thoughts and the opinions of others.
Planchet
GSA non cc morgans in hardcases.
Graded 1916d merc dimes.
These always have performed quite well for me..
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Some of the so-called US modern issues might very well out perform some classics if this is factored into the analysis.
Having said that, the biggest opportunities are in world coins and it has been underway for awhile and with certain countries and the rise of a middle class with disposable income creates a situation whereby coins that have been ignored for decades will emerge and increase in value. Look at the increases for better date China over the past 12-18 months. Poland and Russia have out performed the US Market.
Many World coins in GEM are much tougher to get that one may think and the markets in several countries are beginning to truly emerge.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>It seems that we can look at collector demographics for starters... and not just within the US.
Some of the so-called US modern issues might very well out perform some classics if this is factored into the analysis.
Having said that, the biggest opportunities are in world coins and it has been underway for awhile and with certain countries and the rise of a middle class with disposable income creates a situation whereby coins that have been ignored for decades will emerge and increase in value. Look at the increases for better date China over the past 12-18 months. Poland and Russia have out performed the US Market.
Many World coins in GEM are much tougher to get that one may think and the markets in several countries are beginning to truly emerge. >>
I lot of the later date Soviet kopek coinage is up 50 or 80 fold. As the better dates
are sorted out there will be more scarcities discovered. But the older Soviet coinage
hasn't moved at all. True, most was put away in more substantial numbers but it's
been decades and much of it is lost. It's hard to believe that these are mostly just
three or four dollar coins. I'd watch for a lot more happening in pricing of all the Sov-
iet era coinage.
A lot of world modern coinage was almost impossible to find BEFORE people started
looking for it. Of course older coinage from countries with rapidly growing economies
is experiencing a whole new level of demand too. It's the lack of demand that has al-
ways kept a tight lid on darkside coin prices. Now, in many cases, this lid is simply blow-
ing off. Everywhere high demand meets little supply this will be seen whether the coin
was made in 1765 or 1965.
<< <i>I know of several undervalued US gold coins but I'm not going to say which ones since I'm still buying them when they become available and I don't need the competetion. >>
Yeah, PerryHall and I don't need the competition.
Nahhhhh.
<< <i>
<< <i>Best return over next 5 years - 2006-P Reverse Proof American Silver Eagle, either TPG PF69 or raw. It's the type key of the popular ASE series, and at 250K it's the second lowest mintage ASE period. Part of the popular 20th Anniversary set. Available at $225-$250, not much more than the 1994-P proof silver eagle, which has 50% higher mintage and is not a type coin. The 2006-P was widely distributed due to a 10-set order limit, which makes it less likely for large hoards to be overhanging the market... >>
Overdate, interesting comment. I have a question. I do not collect or own any ASEs. But the people that do collexct them in proof, do they consider the reverse proof part of the regular set? What I mean is whether those that have been collecting the regular proof ASEs, will many of them not collect the reverse proof because it is different than the rest of the set. If so, this would reduce the demand. If half do not collect it, then its price would not be that much off from the 1994-P. This is a question, not a statement or opinion, again I do not collect them but I am interested to know your thoughts and the opinions of others.
Planchet >>
If you collect the ASE's, Your set MUST have @ least one RP. I, myself, still do not have the King. 1995-W.
Edited to add ; I plucked a 1994 proof off the ' Bay for 99.00 Two week's ago
Most dealers blindly price this coin based on the Sheet which vaguely goes by the mintage figures. The coin can be very difficult to find on any bourse floor in any grade. However, if you're looking for Choice XF-AU, you can almost forget about it. You might be looking quite awhile. About half a dozen or so, of varying grades, come up on eBay in any given week and many of them have problems. You might have an easier time buying a Mint State from one of the auction houses. The survivor rate is LESS than the 1888 or 1889 which is evident by the availability of these coins. And, as many of you know, the mintages of the 1888 and 1889 were puny!
Overdate, interesting comment. I have a question. I do not collect or own any ASEs. But the people that do collexct them in proof, do they consider the reverse proof part of the regular set? What I mean is whether those that have been collecting the regular proof ASEs, will many of them not collect the reverse proof because it is different than the rest of the set. If so, this would reduce the demand.
It's true that the reverse proof is not part of the regular proof series. So anyone collecting one proof single a year, as issued by the Mint, might not consider the reverse proof to be necessary to complete the set. Much like the 1895-P proof Morgan dollar is often not considered part of a "complete" set, since circulation strikes are not available.
However, there are at least three additional sources of demand for the reverse proof ASE that, in my opinion, more than make up for this.
First and most important are collectors who want one specimen of each type and finish. They will need one uncirculated, one proof, and one reverse proof. Millions of "common date" uncirculated and proof ASEs exist, but the 2006-P is the only reverse proof available, so it is the rarest "type."
The second source of additional demand is from those who collect one of each date and mintmark. This is the group that has driven the price of the 1995-W proof ASE to astronomical levels (over $4,000), even though it is not considered part of the annual series. (It was available only as a "bonus" coin in the 1995 Gold American Eagle proof set.) The 2006-P is available only as the reverse proof, so all who collect ASEs by date and mintmark will need this coin. This includes owners of proof ASE registry sets - the 2006-P is needed to complete the set.
Lastly, there are many who collect modern commemorative and other sets issued by the Mint. The three-coin 20th Anniversary ASE set is attractively packaged and popular in its own right even though, strictly speaking, ASEs are not commemorative coins. The reverse proof adds a "coolness" factor to the set beyond that generated by the standard proof.
For these reasons I think that the reverse proof is undervalued at this time, and that demand from multiple sources will increase its popularity over time.
Just as an example to illustrate the increase in Chinese, the 1932 Birds over Junque Dollar in 63 or 64 is now in the 1300-1500 range. 18 months ago it was 550-650. I believe the Auto Dollar has done even better, this is if you can find one.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>Modern/Alien stuff?
Nahhhhh. >>
Ameros?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>I know of several undervalued US gold coins but I'm not going to say which ones since I'm still buying them when they become available and I don't need the competetion. >>
Yeah, PerryHall and I don't need the competition. >>
PerryHall and Oldcameoproofsguy, I understand your reluctance to list the date but perhaps each of you might point out which gold series you are talking about. Perhaps you are each looking at different series. For example, are the coints Saints in MS65, Liberty, Indian, Modern, Bust, etc and also the denomination such as $2.5 $5, $10, $20, etc.
Planchet
Thanks
Planchet
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I know of several undervalued US gold coins but I'm not going to say which ones since I'm still buying them when they become available and I don't need the competetion. >>
Yeah, PerryHall and I don't need the competition. >>
PerryHall and Oldcameoproofsguy, I understand your reluctance to list the date but perhaps each of you might point out which gold series you are talking about. Perhaps you are each looking at different series. For example, are the coints Saints in MS65, Liberty, Indian, Modern, Bust, etc and also the denomination such as $2.5 $5, $10, $20, etc.
Planchet >>
Seldom is an entire series undervalued. However, certain coins within a series can be undervalued compared to the rest of the series. When a coin with a low pop sells for less than similar coins with higher pops within the same series, it is undervalued.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
PCGS MS70 2006-W AGE 20th Anniv. First Strike.....
Total coins graded...2504
MS70.......................464 (about 18% ratio)
Current price range ... $1500 - $1,800..
compared to the Rev proof at $4000+ for the same grade, this could be a sleeper down the road...
<< <i>There have been many good posts. Once question that comes to mind on some of your choices, what grade would give the best bang for your buck. Please remember the theme of these post limits you to individual coins that cost no more than $2000 today.
>>
The coins I'm talking about generally just have to be BU. By darkside standards
this means the the original person who set them aside selected nice specimens
and thet are still in original condition. Even light wear is unacceptable for most
moderns. Poorly made and poorly preserved coins are excluded. By US standards
this means some MS-60 coins are acceptable but you have to get up to MS-64 be-
fore almost all coins are OK.
Generally darkside moderns probably don't exist in the kind of quantities that col-
lectors will pursue gems to a much greater degree than more typical coins.
Most of the obviously unc coins you see are acceptable because few of the poor ones
were saved and foreign mints often have a higher standard than the US mint (until
recently).
The 10 Amero satin copper was released for $13 just a few months ago and just sold for $62 on ebay.
The 10 Amero proof like copper was also released for $13 and just sold for $52 on ebay.
The number of different bidders on them is astonishing to say the least.
<< <i>
<< <i>Long term sleepers may be the 1999 $5 and $10 MS gold eagles struck with unpolished proof dies. Not real cheap right now, but based on estimated mintages they could very well be undervalued. >>
Pcgs dropped their values on them a week or so ago. Perhaps just part of the cycle. Don't see them all that often. >>
I had a guy come up to my table today and show me a $5 MS-68 or 9. He planned on keeping it for a while and was optimistic about it's potential.
<< <i>Long term sleepers may be the 1999 $5 and $10 MS gold eagles struck with unpolished proof dies. Not real cheap right now, but based on estimated mintages they could very well be undervalued. >>
Dyyrb
What are the estimated mintages and how has these two coins performed in the last five years? Also, are they considered error coins or regular issues. Do most collectors feel they need one to complete their set or is this an "optional" addition. Also, what is their current price. I assume they are collected in either 69 or 70 but let us know.
Planchet
Planchet
Class of 1999
2006-W ASE Burnished Die - PCGS MS70 - gonna turn into another 1995-W Proof!
If it does, will it need to be reholdered?
<< <i>my lil take is 1964 sms coins are most undervalued...if you can find them
back to your orignal confines though i like the 1916 matte proof buffalo or matte proof lincoln as they can border the 2k limit with nothing but up to go as early teen popular design proof coinage comes of age
;-) >>
Since when are 1964 SMS undervalued? They cost a fortune!
<< <i>97P SMS nickel in 70, with no toning. >>
This coin has not moved in 10 years. Now you think It will be of more interest? many coins with mintages of less than 20,000 are still considered bullion.
Box of 20
Box of 20