PO-1 fans are idiots.............
2manycoins2fewfunds
Posts: 3,039 ✭✭✭
For all the talk about AT/NT on this board why do people even bother with worst condition coins.
You want to talk about something easy to fake.
Its very easy to artifically wear a coin down to whatever level you like.
You want to talk about something easy to fake.
Its very easy to artifically wear a coin down to whatever level you like.
0
Comments
Specializing in 1854 and 1855 large FE patterns
<
<< <i>Its very easy to artifically wear a coin down to whatever level you like. >>
If that is true, you can make some good money.
IIRC, if you can wear down an Ike Dollar and get it into a PO-01 holder, there is at least one, maybe 2 board members who will pay you $500 + for it.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>For all the talk about AT/NT on this board why do people even bother with worst condition coins.
You want to talk about something easy to fake.
Its very easy to artifically wear a coin down to whatever level you like. >>
Some forms of exonumia actually yield a higher price if they are worn. How about that huh?
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
I agree, too, that it would be easy to detect artificial wear.
<< <i>I think idiots is a bit strong. >>
Boring morning...............good to wake up the kids with a shout.
<< <i>
<< <i>I think idiots is a bit strong. >>
Boring morning...............good to wake up the kids with a shout. >>
or in your case, a mild brain fart.
<< <i>I would not go as far as calling these collectors "idiots", but I do not see the all the hype with the PO-1.
I agree, too, that it would be easy to detect artificial wear. >>
I don't think so.....Suppose a person who is athletic rides a bicicycle or someone puts a coin inside of a leather bag and places it in the center hub of a wheel and decides to keep it there for quite a while....Do you think it will show wear....????
These PO coins are very questionable.....?!?!?!?.....JMO....
<< <i>For all the talk about AT/NT on this board why do people even bother with worst condition coins.
You want to talk about something easy to fake.
Its very easy to artifically wear a coin down to whatever level you like. >>
Did he just call me an "idiot" ??
Hey "meathead" can you show me one of these "very easy to artifically wear" coins ?............
Dan
<< <i>For all the talk about AT/NT on this board why do people even bother with worst condition coins.
You want to talk about something easy to fake.
Its very easy to artifically wear a coin down to whatever level you like. >>
People who complain and whine about what others collect are idiots.
<< <i>
<< <i>For all the talk about AT/NT on this board why do people even bother with worst condition coins.
You want to talk about something easy to fake.
Its very easy to artifically wear a coin down to whatever level you like. >>
Did he just call me an "idiot" ??
Hey "meathead" can you show me one of these "very easy to artifically wear" coins ?............
Dan >>
Nope. I hear this claim every once in awhile, and I am still waiting for some proof. Somebody, please get a 2007 coin in a PCGS P01 holder. Let's see it!
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
<< <i>
<< <i>I would not go as far as calling these collectors "idiots", but I do not see the all the hype with the PO-1.
I agree, too, that it would be easy to detect artificial wear. >>
I don't think so.....Suppose a person who is athletic rides a bicicycle or someone puts a coin inside of a leather bag and places it in the center hub of a wheel and decides to keep it there for quite a while....Do you think it will show wear....????
These PO coins are very questionable.....?!?!?!?.....JMO.... >>
I used to ride my bike cross country, you would shatter your spokes before you accomplished anything.
AW is pretty easy to detect NORMALLY.
I understand you sentiment that it's a bizarre specialty to pursue super-worn coins and that with enough years in a pocket, any coin can be "naturally" worn down. I think the PO1 craze is nutty, but hey, I don't have to buy them. But then again, I'm also one of those idiots that think the pursuit of 70 material is pointless and expensive.
Idiots
doucebags
meathead
stupid
and
Fat Face
get it nuked...
+1
the coin is not considered a "real P01" until they give it their blessing with a slab.
this is truly taking coin collecting to a strange place by giving some company absolute
power over your ability to collect lower grade coins deemed P01.
it is collecting a label at its finest. marketing has truly warped people's priorities from
enjoying the coin for what it is to a hunt to find coins that PCGS deems is a P01.
what is even sillier, is that most of these coins are worth less then the trip back
and forth to pcgs plus the grading fee.
but people will come on these boards and state "collect what you like!". As if this
defends or makes up for silly decision making and throwing away money.
idiot might be a strong term to use but it is really not far from what I think is a silly
fad that will disappear shortly.
<< <i>my problem with this whole adventure is the need to include PCGS into the factor.
the coin is not considered a "real P01" until they give it their blessing with a slab.
this is truly taking coin collecting to a strange place by giving some company absolute
power over your ability to collect lower grade coins deemed P01.
it is collecting a label at its finest. marketing has truly warped people's priorities from
enjoying the coin for what it is to a hunt to find coins that PCGS deems is a P01.
what is even sillier, is that most of these coins are worth less then the trip back
and forth to pcgs plus the grading fee.
. >>
BINGO! it is a marketing ploy to please stockholders, plain and simple; and so far, it's working like a charm
If I take a G-4 coin and carry it as a pocket piece everyday til its a PO-1 is that artifical??
How about if I make a point of rubbing it from time to time?? Its a very, very slippery slope.
Trying to determine what is 'real' wear isn't so easy to define.
Does anyone doubt you can drop a coin a few grades buy carrying it as a pocket piece??
I doubt you could get a 2007 coin to slab as a PO-1 regardless of whether it was real or not.
Certainly you could wear the details down to a PO-1 level but simply because its only 1 year old it might not get slabbed.
Just because a coin is 100 years old and was a G-4 to start doesn't mean it can't be brought back into 'circulation' and brought down to a PO-1.
If these is money in it............ it will happen and I expect it already has.................
I suppose I'm an idiot too. Here are some ultra low grade coins.
<< <i>I think it's fine that people want to build low-grade sets. Circulated coins are more affordable and if you can't go the high $$ way then head for the other end of the spectrum to give yourself a unique and affordable challenge. It's not always about the coins, sometimes it's about the hunt.
I suppose I'm an idiot too. Here are some ultra low grade coins.
q]
According to the OP, it must be so......
Just kidding, some nice original coins there.
<< <i> To each is own in this hobby, high grade/low grade, toned or white, modern or old...it really boils down to what floats your boat. Who gives a rip... >>
Yep. Those coins all get a price bump when they are in the right plastic. Appreciation for encapsulated, authenticated and graded coins is not limited to PO-1 coins.
<< <i>my problem with this whole adventure is the need to include PCGS into the factor.
the coin is not considered a "real P01" until they give it their blessing with a slab.
this is truly taking coin collecting to a strange place by giving some company absolute
power over your ability to collect lower grade coins deemed P01.
it is collecting a label at its finest. marketing has truly warped people's priorities from
enjoying the coin for what it is to a hunt to find coins that PCGS deems is a P01.
what is even sillier, is that most of these coins are worth less then the trip back
and forth to pcgs plus the grading fee.
but people will come on these boards and state "collect what you like!". As if this
defends or makes up for silly decision making and throwing away money.
idiot might be a strong term to use but it is really not far from what I think is a silly
fad that will disappear shortly. >>
Excuse me if I'm wrong, but I think you are not understanding how "worth" is determined. When you say that these coins are worth less then the trip back and forth to PCGS, you may be wrong. As soon as people decide they want P01 coins they naturally become worth more. Just like if people decided they are not interested in MS coins their "worth" would naturally become less.
The fact that some people have taken these P01 coins and sold them for a profit debunks your theory that they are "throwing away their money."
Let us not forget that NONE of our coins are inherently worth something. the monetary value of our coins is based on societal demand (which can be very fickle!)
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I would not go as far as calling these collectors "idiots", but I do not see the all the hype with the PO-1.
I agree, too, that it would be easy to detect artificial wear. >>
I don't think so.....Suppose a person who is athletic rides a bicicycle or someone puts a coin inside of a leather bag and places it in the center hub of a wheel and decides to keep it there for quite a while....Do you think it will show wear....????
These PO coins are very questionable.....?!?!?!?.....JMO.... >>
I used to ride my bike cross country, you would shatter your spokes before you accomplished anything.
AW is pretty easy to detect NORMALLY. >>
Your not gonna stick it in the spokes.....!!!......
<< <i>my problem with this whole adventure is the need to include PCGS into the factor.
the coin is not considered a "real P01" until they give it their blessing with a slab.
this is truly taking coin collecting to a strange place by giving some company absolute
power over your ability to collect lower grade coins deemed P01.
it is collecting a label at its finest. marketing has truly warped people's priorities from
enjoying the coin for what it is to a hunt to find coins that PCGS deems is a P01.
>>
And this is different from collecting pop-top coins HOW???
<< <i>To each is own in this hobby, high grade/low grade, toned or white, modern or old...it really boils down to what floats your boat. Who gives a rip... >>
This premise means that you have transferred the power of who states the coin is P01
to PCGS and means without them the coin has significantly less value raw.
I see people who play this game selling their 02 and 03 graded coins on ebay. They state
that sometimes they break even but i highly doubt this is the case once all is said and done.
Add in the body bags, shipping, grading fees, time, effort, costs of tracking down the coins, etc..
you better score 1 or several P01 coins to make up for the losers. (heh, getting a grade of 02 or 03
is losing!).
I will agree with you that during the peak of the fad there are folks out there willing to pay
up the nose for these coins but in a few years i am betting that will not be the case. Can you
say beanie babies?
Eventually all of these coins will tumble in price to the levels their raw brothers and sisters
sell for. The only true winner is PCGS and the money they suck away from collectors who
attempt to be a part of this trend (fad).
How many people can you find willing to pay 100s of dollars for a P01 ike today? 1? 3? I highly
doubt 5.
Pretty thin arena eh? When their interest wanes and the next fad comes about.. these coins
will no longer fetch the mighty dollar. They are simply low grade coins and plastic will never change
that long term. Plastic does not make a coin special or something it is not.
<< <i>For all the talk about AT/NT on this board why do people even bother with worst condition coins.
You want to talk about something easy to fake.
Its very easy to artifically wear a coin down to whatever level you like. >>
There have been hundreds literally hundreds, if not thousands, of examples of AT coins displayed in this forum alone over the last few years. We've even seen proven AT coins in PCGS plastic.
Show us a single example of an artificially worn PO01 in a PCGS holder and I'll concede your point. Until then, you might want to hold off on the "idiot" remarks... genius.
PCGS, ANACS, & NGC Certified Coins on My Website.
<< <i>Pretty thin arena eh? When their interest wanes and the next fad comes about.. these coins
will no longer fetch the mighty dollar. >>
This is true of ANY coin that is hot right now. In fact, this is true of ANY collectible item. In what way is a coin any different then a Beanie Baby in your argument?
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
I do not collect pop tops so I cannot relate to either spectrum.
I just know the difference between the two is that one is a low grade
coin and the other is in a better state of preservation. Antiques are often
wanted/desired in a high state of preservation thus the constant demand.
A collector can seek out these high grade coins without needing PCGS and
other collectors will recognize the coin for what it is without plastic around it.
P01 collectors seem to fixate on whether or not the coin will get encased P01...
not the coin itself.
<< <i>P01 collectors seem to fixate on whether or not the coin will get encased P01...
not the coin itself. >>
And what about all the posts asking if a bust half can get into a PCGS 64 holder? Your issue is not with people that like P01 coins, it is with people that like PCGS.
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
Successful, problem free and pleasant transactions with: illini420, coinguy1, weather11am,wayneherndon,wondercoin,Topdollarpaid,Julian, bishdigg,seateddime, peicesofme,ajia,CoinRaritiesOnline,savoyspecial,Boom, TorinoCobra71, ModernCoinMart, WTCG, slinc, Patches, Gerard, pocketpiececommems, BigJohnD, RickMilauskas, mirabella, Smittys, LeeG, TomB, DeusExMachina, tydye
I feel that a P01 coin (plastic collecting) is more of a fad then a person seeking out
a key date to complete their series.
One, the P01, revolves around PCGS having to grade this coin as 01.. while they key
date can be raw and still very desirable.. not losing most of its value since it is raw.
when plastic makes up a high percentage of the reason the coin has value.. i feel
their is a problem with that and has a much greater inherent risk factor involved with it.
of course coin collecting prices are a cycle of up and downs... but i think you can easily
agree which one carries more risk! right?
<< <i>A collector can seek out these high grade coins without needing PCGS and
other collectors will recognize the coin for what it is without plastic around it.
P01 collectors seem to fixate on whether or not the coin will get encased P01...
not the coin itself.
>>
They can??? Then explain why a raw MS-70 sells for a 10th (on a good day) of what it sells for after PCGS blesses it with their approval.
Edit to add: I don't think collectors should give so much credit to a lable either. But, the point is that they do.
sure people want to know what a coin will grade by pcgs, but take a P01 raw ike
and take a 64 bust half. but a price tag next to them with the going rate of what
a pcgs slabbed coin costs on the open market. 100s for the raw ike, lets say 1000
for the raw bust half.
do you think anyone will buy the raw ike for 100s without PCGS blessing?
i know a savy collector will gladly pony up money for a bust half that they
intelligently think is a 64 at pcgs.
if the bust half grades 63 well they lost some money.
if the ike grades 02 the person lost all their money, except oh, 20 bucks?
NO
<<How about if I make a point of rubbing it from time to time??>>
Still OK, IMO
<<Trying to determine what is 'real' wear isn't so easy to define.>>
Not any more difficult than placing coins in old coin holders or Taco Bell napkins and having them tone.
There seems to be a Natural (Tone/Wear, etc), Artificial (Tone/Wear, etc), and the gray area were someone helps the 'natural' process along.
<<Does anyone doubt you can drop a coin a few grades buy carrying it as a pocket piece??>>
I don't doubt it, but if my 'pocket piece' is any indication, it'll take YEARS!
I don't get it when someone says, "I've had this in my pocket for a year & look at it now!"
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I would not go as far as calling these collectors "idiots", but I do not see the all the hype with the PO-1.
I agree, too, that it would be easy to detect artificial wear. >>
I don't think so.....Suppose a person who is athletic rides a bicicycle or someone puts a coin inside of a leather bag and places it in the center hub of a wheel and decides to keep it there for quite a while....Do you think it will show wear....????
These PO coins are very questionable.....?!?!?!?.....JMO.... >>
I used to ride my bike cross country, you would shatter your spokes before you accomplished anything.
AW is pretty easy to detect NORMALLY. >>
Your not gonna stick it in the spokes.....!!!......
The hub of the wheel?
Where in the hub?
Last I checked, the hub of a wheel and the spokes generally are attached. After my last year I geared it down to 8K miles for the seaon. My longest season was 12.5K miles, so, again unless you can tell me where ON THE HUB of a wheel you placed the coin where ON THE HUB, it did not touch the spokes, I would be very pleased. IF you are saying IN THE HUB, what coin are you takling about? Last I checked, the hub is filled with bearings, grease and oh yes, the skewer to keep the wheel attached to the hub.
IF you compromise a hub, you cause torsion to be adversely placed on the spokes. You torque a spoke, while in motion, it breaks. Generally at the U of the spoke which last I checked, is ON THE HUB of the wheel. D'OH!
<< <i>...of course coin collecting prices are a cycle of up and downs... but i think you can easily
agree which one carries more risk! right? >>
If these people are getting their coins graded as an investment only, then I think they are probably wasting their time also. BUT, I also think than anyone collecting ANY coins for investment purposes only is also wasting their time.
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
First let me state I think the MS70 grade is silly. I collect half eagles and
to me a GEM is a 65. I rarely see anything higher in grade. They simply do not
exist past that except for a few rare cases. Never a 69 or 70.
This is the opposite end of the spectrum. I agree with your sentiment.
Crack out that raw modern MS70 and put the same price tag next to it
that it sells for in a pcgs slab. It will never sell.
The whole value of the coin is based on plastic. Not the coin itself.
I am the type who would be happy with a 68-69 in that case if I collected
coins in such a lofty grade.
So the confusion revolves around I being a collector who will never see a liberty
half eagle in such a high grade. It never enters my mind. I simply do not have to make
such choices.
i saw one of morgans someplace - i thought it was neat