David Hall Rare Coins
gecko109
Posts: 8,231 ✭
Does he still own/operate the rare coin business? Seems like a slight conflict of interest to me if he does. Anyone else think so also, or will you all run away before this thread implodes?
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<< <i>Seems like a slight conflict of interest to me if he does. >>
Why?
Russ, NCNE
-Paul
<< <i>From what I understand someone else runs day to day operations. >>
Correct, and they also do not submit coins to PCGS for grading.
Russ, NCNE
only buys already graded that are good for grade
<< <i>
<< <i>Seems like a slight conflict of interest to me if he does. >>
Why?
Russ, NCNE >>
Because he can get biased "reviews" on his coins?
<< <i>
<< <i>From what I understand someone else runs day to day operations. >>
Correct, and they also do not submit coins to PCGS for grading.
Russ, NCNE >>
Well if what you guys say is true, and he does not have any of his inventory slabbed, that is HIGHLY commendable Mr. Hall. Im not trying to start chit, its just a legitimate thought I had on the subject is all.
<< <i><< Seems like a slight conflict of interest to me if he does. >>
Why?
Russ, NCNE >>
Because he can get biased "reviews" on his coins? >>
They do not submit coins to PCGS.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i><< From what I understand someone else runs day to day operations. >>
Correct, and they also do not submit coins to PCGS for grading.
Russ, NCNE >>
Well if what you guys say is true, and he does not have any of his inventory slabbed, that is HIGHLY commendable Mr. Hall. Im not trying to start chit, its just a legitimate thought I had on the subject is all. >>
Yes, it's true. And, since Collector's Universe is a public company it would be easy for the FTC to find out if it was otherwise.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Does he still own/operate the rare coin business? Seems like a slight conflict of interest to me if he does. Anyone else think so also, or will you all run away before this thread implodes? >>
You can be sure this will be brought up in the scumbags vs. Ebay lawsuit.
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<< <i>
<< <i>Does he still own/operate the rare coin business? Seems like a slight conflict of interest to me if he does. Anyone else think so also, or will you all run away before this thread implodes? >>
You can be sure this will be brought up in the scumbags vs. Ebay lawsuit. >>
Where would that possibly be introduced? That would be completely irrelevant. PCGS and DHRC are not defendants. AFAIK neither are directly reponsible in the least for the policy change. Why not haul the US Mint into it too?
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<< <i>Yes, it's true. And, since Collector's Universe is a public company it would be easy for the FTC to find out if it was otherwise. >>
The SEC governs public companies, not the FTC.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
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<< <i>
<< <i>Does he still own/operate the rare coin business? Seems like a slight conflict of interest to me if he does. Anyone else think so also, or will you all run away before this thread implodes? >>
You can be sure this will be brought up in the scumbags vs. Ebay lawsuit. >>
Barry! you can't say scumbags!
Oh yeah, never mind....we can say scumbags since we were dismissed with prejudice. Heheh...I think I might start getting nasty.
My icon IS my coin. It is a gem 1949 FBL Franklin.
<< <i>
<< <i><< Seems like a slight conflict of interest to me if he does. >>
Why?
Russ, NCNE >>
Because he can get biased "reviews" on his coins? >>
They do not submit coins to PCGS.
Russ, NCNE >>
Did you vote for Nixon?
Come on gecko... what do you mean: it's tacky ?
<< <i>Just for the record I just went to DHRC and the only coins listed for sale are PCGS coins. The website has two options non-certified and certified, but there are no non-certified coins list. >>
That's an outrage. I hope NNCCS, PBLTP, FAZZZ, AAAYE, and BLLLP sue DHRC because their product isn't sold there.
--Severian the Lame
<< <i>Yeah, it really irks me to see Warren Buffett eating at Dairy Queen, too.
Come on gecko... what do you mean: it's tacky ? >>
Its like when there is some big company contest or giveaway. The little disclaimer at the end that goes something like this: Employees and their immediate families are not eligible. You know why they arent eligible? Because it is unethical.
<< <i>
<< <i>Yeah, it really irks me to see Warren Buffett eating at Dairy Queen, too.
Come on gecko... what do you mean: it's tacky ? >>
Its like when there is some big company contest or giveaway. The little disclaimer at the end that goes something like this: Employees and their immediate families are not eligible. You know why they arent eligible? Because it is unethical. >>
Nonsense.
--Severian the Lame
<< <i>
<< <i>From what I understand someone else runs day to day operations. >>
Correct, and they also do not submit coins to PCGS for grading.
Russ, NCNE >>
People think they can say whatever they want, wherever they want, and cloak everything in "freedom of speech". I think it is more that people should get a brain, go post it elsewhere and respect others and their websites and not be trying to get things "going" just by 'wondering'.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
The point of the price guide management is not one I had considered before. However, for that to be problematic, one would have to identify a price that was moved after DHRC (or DH personally) established a significant position and one would have to demonstrate that the PCGS price guide is really an industry standard, which I don't see it being...at least not yet. One would assume that he does this because he is capable and has the breadth of knowledge of the series, dates and the associated market.
edited to add>> What is with all this garbage anyway? HRH is one of the enduring great guys in this hobby and we're lucky he takes the time out to discuss coins with us here and there when we know he is obviously a busy man. A little ribbing now and then is in good humor, but some people don't know where to draw a line. I guess we might as well trash Dave Bowers, Julian, ...and all the other really great numismatists/dealers while we're at it.
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<< <i>While there is a time and place for all conversations, some people are just plain stupid with the conversations that they have in: in public, about a company and the person in charge, and on that company's "personal" website.
People think they can say whatever they want, wherever they want, and cloak everything in "freedom of speech". I think it is more that people should get a brain, go post it elsewhere and respect others and their websites and not be trying to get things "going" just by 'wondering'. >>
Completely unfair statement Bochi. I am trying to look at this subject from a very non-biased stance. I greatly appreciate the fact that collector's universe has created this message board for us to use for free. I have learned more about coins here in 3 months than I had learned my previous 3 years. I respect Mr. Hall, and PCGS as a company. But lets not allow that to "blind" us to certain sometimes sensitive issues such as this one. I am in no way attacking Mr. Hall, and if he reads this thread, I hope he understands that. It was just something that I wanted to hear opinions on, and other people's thoughts.
<< <i><< Yes, it's true. And, since Collector's Universe is a public company it would be easy for the FTC to find out if it was otherwise. >>
The SEC governs public companies, not the FTC. >>
In a case such as this, the FTC would have jurisdiction.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>So to say that he is scrutinized by the SEC, or FTC, or whomever doesnt hold much water anyway. >>
The FTC already crawled up PCGS's ass once. You can bet that if there were any evidence of impropriety they wouldn't hesitate to do it again.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Edited to say that Russ has stated that "They do not submit coins to PCGS." This statement would rule out the negative assumptions, but how does Russ know this >>
Because David Hall said so. That's good enough for me.
Russ, NCNE
Anyhow, I do not think it is a CONflict of interest, as long as he is not submitting directly to his own company.
<< <i>Could someone please tell me why in this thread whenever I see the term 'conflict of interest', I read it as 'coinflict of interest'
Anyhow, I do not think it is a CONflict of interest, as long as he is not submitting directly to his own company. >>
Even if he is the man responsible for updating the widely accepted PCGS priceguide?
<< <i>
<< <i>Could someone please tell me why in this thread whenever I see the term 'conflict of interest', I read it as 'coinflict of interest'
Anyhow, I do not think it is a CONflict of interest, as long as he is not submitting directly to his own company. >>
Even if he is the man responsible for updating the widely accepted PCGS priceguide? >>
I have purchased hundreds of PCGS-graded coins and have never once referred to the PCGS price guide as a resource prior to making a purchase.
A couple things about DHRC:
1. David Hall has answered this question several times in my tenure here. He is not involved in the day-to-day operations of DHRC, and DHRC does not submit coins to PCGS for grading. Until someone conclusively proves otherwise, I am satisfied with his explanation and have no reason whatsoever to doubt it. There is more at stake here than making a few extra bucks selling widgets.
2. This thread prompted my annual (or so) visit to DHRC, and I was surprised to find southern gold (until recently, DH was cool on it) and a lot of bright white coins which would not fit very well in my collection.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
If you have any of the old "Inside View" newsletters lying around, just look at the back cover. You will see that getting your coins PCGS graded was listed as a service they offered to their customers.
and they're cold.
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Mary
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<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Does he still own/operate the rare coin business? Seems like a slight conflict of interest to me if he does. Anyone else think so also, or will you all run away before this thread implodes? >>
You can be sure this will be brought up in the scumbags vs. Ebay lawsuit. >>
Where would that possibly be introduced? That would be completely irrelevant. PCGS and DHRC are not defendants. AFAIK neither are directly reponsible in the least for the policy change. Why not haul the US Mint into it too? >>
It's relevant because one of the issues is some of these guys are self-slabbers. If one of EBay's defenses is these guys are not impartial, third party certifiers it's relevant. Although people here understand HRH's arm's length approach to his dealership vs. PCGS, a court may be less likely to believe "well, because David Hall said there's no conflict of interest."
Look at it from the point of view of an objective outsider, and you'll see what I mean.
Look down to Russ' post about DHRC buying coins on the open market. DHRC was a strong bidder on my ASE.
Vietnam Vet 1968-1969
the PCGS price guide does not control the market nor does it set the market - what people are willing to pay for thier coins sets the market and the prices. if DHRC wants to use the PCGS price guide to sell thier coins, that's their business and their business model. nobody says that you have to buy from them nor do you have to pay their prices. I see absolutely no conflict of interest here
edited to add - none of the dealers that I use on a regular basis uses the PCGS price guide and most of them wouldn't know what I was talking about if I tried to quote it to them...
Total Copper Nutcase - African, British Ships, Channel Islands!!!
'Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup'
I agree with you!
Maybe some of these newer folks should try the search feature. Many of the questions and accusations can be answered there.
JMO
Steve
<< <i>This subject has been beaten to death on several ocassions on these boards in the past. It's time to give it a rest.
I agree with you!
Maybe some of these newer folks should try the search feature. Many of the questions and accusations can be answered there.
JMO
Steve >>
60% or more of ALL "new" topics in these forums are really just variations of previously talked about subjects. So what you are saying is, if a topic has ever been posted before, no matter how long ago, we should be forbidden to ever talk about it again? Makes alot of sense. What are you, some sort of neo nazi?
<< <i>and he doesn't submit any coins
only buys already graded that are good for grade >>
so ...he looks for a "cac" sticker?
Your questions are valid and most here are civil.
David gave me one piece of advice :
"Have fun with coins."
The only conflict of interest I see is that he's having fun at work
<< <i>Maybe some of these newer folks should try the search feature. Many of the questions and accusations can be answered there.
Steve >>
oh ...and by the way steve...theres a fly in your ointment!....
If any of the "newer folks" decide to have an opinion of their own...and want to comment....(be it pertinant or just silly like most of mine)...., by software design it automatically places the thread back to the top.
you can't have it both ways. (comment and leave it buried.)
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."