ICG making big push . . .
jimmymac
Posts: 505 ✭
just received the lastest issue of NN and there's a full page ad on the front and back covers for ICG (Independent Coin Grading) - looks like they are trying to capture more of the TPG market - maybe their marketing to the disgruntled folks who are fed up with PCGS and NGC and this new CACA, I mean CAC controversy - how many of you would give ICG a chance?? - looks like they are trying to move in on the big guys and make a name for themselves - thoughts, comments etc
currently putting together a EF/AU/BU 18th & 19th Century Type Set; and CC Morgan Set
just completed 3d tour to Iraq and retired after 28+ years in the US Army
just completed 3d tour to Iraq and retired after 28+ years in the US Army
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Comments
<< <i>how many of you would give ICG a chance?? >>
They had their chance. They blew it by pumping out PR70's by the container load.
Russ, NCNE
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<< <i>
<< <i>how many of you would give ICG a chance?? >>
They had their chance. They blew it by pumping out PR70's by the container load.
Russ, NCNE >>
Ummmm.........
What wrong with them being lucky and getting just the cream of the crop to be slabbed?
Ray
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Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
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Young Numismatist ............................ and growing!
1870 2 cent. Bought it as an AU58 from a local dealer. ICG grade: PR62BN. I had a suspicion it might be a proof as it was exceptionally sharp. They must be getting very strict about calling a coin red-brown because this coin has quite a bit of mint red still left.
1869 3 cent nickel. Bought it from a web-based dealer as "AU59+." ICG grade: AU58. No surprise here. The coin is very well struck on both sides and completely original. They got this one right.
1841 Half dime. Bought it from a local Sunday bourse dealer (who I know well) as Choice AU. ICG grade: AU55.
They got this one right, too. Very attractive and well struck coin.
1866 Rays Nickel. Bought it in an eBay auction as AU55. ICG grade: EF45. They missed badly on this one. AU55 is the correct grade. A very attractive coin. too. This is the kind of thing that really annoys me in a submission.
1867 No Rays Nickel. Bought it from the same eBay seller as the 1866 Rays as AU55. ICG grade: bodybag for "environmental damage." I'm not happy, but not surprised. This coin has a copper colored rectangle on the reverse, probably from a bad alloy mix, and I suspect they didn't know what to do about it. The coin is AU55.
1865 3 cent nickel. Bought it in an eBay auction for XF money. It is actually AU58-MS62. ICG grade: bodybag for cleaning. This is a really nice looking coin, sharp strike and no hairlines. It was given a light once-over with Goo-Gone, but remains a very eye-appealing piece. It should have been slabbed.
1867 3 cent nickel. Bought it in an eBay auction for AU money. It is actually MS62-3. ICG grade: bodybag. Probably for artificial toning. I'm not surprised at this one. It is very possible the toning is natural, but who knows.
It's actually quite attractive...and I'm not buried in it.
The coin in this shipment that really annoyed me is the 1866 Rays nickel. They just flat-out undergraded this coin.
Fortunately, I'm not buried in it.
<< <i>They had their chance. They blew it by pumping out PR70's by the container load.
Russ, NCNE >>
That, and their chief took his shot and screwed up ANACS, next.
<< <i>They did the same thing with Coin World, I actually appreciate them doing that, I never get my copy late when it has a clean cover like that.
you're right that ad does keep the mag new lookin' longer.
My local B&M dealer is an ICG freak!
He sends PCGS coins to them like crazy to crossover. On several instances, he has gotten back WORSE grades from ICG than PCGS had on their slabs.
I, for one, think they are ok on <MS/PF63 type stuff.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>That, and their chief took his shot and screwed up ANACS, next. >>
Was that by design or accident?
<< <i>I recently send ICG a seven coin shipment just to try them out. All of the coins were raw. Here are the results and my comments.
1870 2 cent. Bought it as an AU58 from a local dealer. ICG grade: PR62BN. I had a suspicion it might be a proof as it was exceptionally sharp. They must be getting very strict about calling a coin red-brown because this coin has quite a bit of mint red still left.
1869 3 cent nickel. Bought it from a web-based dealer as "AU59+." ICG grade: AU58. No surprise here. The coin is very well struck on both sides and completely original. They got this one right.
1841 Half dime. Bought it from a local Sunday bourse dealer (who I know well) as Choice AU. ICG grade: AU55.
They got this one right, too. Very attractive and well struck coin.
1866 Rays Nickel. Bought it in an eBay auction as AU55. ICG grade: EF45. They missed badly on this one. AU55 is the correct grade. A very attractive coin. too. This is the kind of thing that really annoys me in a submission.
1867 No Rays Nickel. Bought it from the same eBay seller as the 1866 Rays as AU55. ICG grade: bodybag for "environmental damage." I'm not happy, but not surprised. This coin has a copper colored rectangle on the reverse, probably from a bad alloy mix, and I suspect they didn't know what to do about it. The coin is AU55.
1865 3 cent nickel. Bought it in an eBay auction for XF money. It is actually AU58-MS62. ICG grade: bodybag for cleaning. This is a really nice looking coin, sharp strike and no hairlines. It was given a light once-over with Goo-Gone, but remains a very eye-appealing piece. It should have been slabbed.
1867 3 cent nickel. Bought it in an eBay auction for AU money. It is actually MS62-3. ICG grade: bodybag. Probably for artificial toning. I'm not surprised at this one. It is very possible the toning is natural, but who knows.
It's actually quite attractive...and I'm not buried in it.
The coin in this shipment that really annoyed me is the 1866 Rays nickel. They just flat-out undergraded this coin.
Fortunately, I'm not buried in it. >>
Hmmmm -- since your "guess the grade" comments are notoriously conservative (even compared with actual NGC and PCGS grades) it would be interesting to see how these coins would grade at PCGS.
<< <i>...........this be there last advertising push before they go belly up >>
that ain't going to happen for one reason, which i've previously talked about. ICG is the only company willing to authenticate and slab Ancients, to include high-dollar one. PCGS and NGC won't touch this field, as there are TONS of variables to learn and probably too much liability (as well as devoting graders to this difficult field). .......and for those that think they can't survive off of the Ancient market, hasn't been to a major auction overseas where these things are going for 'moon' money. Even if PCGS/NGC decided to take on the Ancient market, it would hurt their reputation as a majority of their best coins would be cracked out for re-submission to ICG anyway.
just because they may not be leading the market in grading US coins, doesn't mean they aren't HIGHLY respected in other coin genres.
<< <i>Even if PCGS/NGC decided to take on the Ancient market, it would hurt their reputation as a majority of their best coins would be cracked out for re-submission to ICG anyway. >>
Wow, how's that for an alternate reality?
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<< <i>Too many have marred plastic. Drives me nuts when I try to image a really nice coin in a scratched up holder. >>
There is something about their plastic that makes it easier to ding up. I see this all the time. The upside is that knowing this increases the chance of getting a bargain because the imaged coins look like they're covered in spots. Example:
All of that crap was on the plastic. The coin itself is a beauty.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>ICG is the only company willing to authenticate and slab Ancients, to include high-dollar one. PCGS and NGC won't touch this field, as there are TONS of variables to learn and probably too much liability (as well as devoting graders to this difficult field). .......and for those that think they can't survive off of the Ancient market, hasn't been to a major auction overseas where these things are going for 'moon' money. Even if PCGS/NGC decided to take on the Ancient market, it would hurt their reputation as a majority of their best coins would be cracked out for re-submission to ICG anyway. >>
I like ICG also because of the ancients. Most ancient dealers resist slabbing ancients, but the ICG ancients do well in auctions. I buy many ancients raw, and get them slabbed by ICG; and find them to be accurate and consistent in their grading.
With US coins, I just don't see enough of them to make a judgment. I wish they would put out pop reports, they have been around long enough to do so.
I find their slab to be the most aesthetically pleasing of the major TPGs.
It looked 64 with a shot at 65.
Sent to ICG with the grade below.
YGBKM. Got Mad. Sent to NGC and it's now in a 64 holder (and looks PQ)
They DO have lots of issues...and could use some consulting. JP or Mike: just ask me.
When the show pre-sells a huge number of high-grades...icg steps up and fills the orders.
<< <i>
<< <i>They had their chance. They blew it by pumping out PR70's by the container load.
Russ, NCNE >>
That, and their chief took his shot and screwed up ANACS, next. >>
IMHO I see nothing to like at ICG other than Cammie works there. They have a long way to go before they earn any of my business.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
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<< <i>
<< <i>That, and their chief took his shot and screwed up ANACS, next. >>
Was that by design or accident? >>
I've wondered that, too. Remember all the BS about leaving ICG for family reasons and retiring?
It's nothing new-they do this every six months or so.
That and they'll slab your key dates for free.
No I know some people don't agree with their grading 100% but hell, as a collector you're supposed to know how to grade. I use them mainly for authentication purposes and coin preservation (slabs).
BN
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<< <i>...........this be there last advertising push before they go belly up >>
That would surprise me quite a lot.
--Thomas Jefferson
<< <i>...........this be there last advertising push before they go belly up >>
What a strange comment. TPG's just don't go belly up.
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<< <i>Cammie is a nice guy....Hi Cammie.......
Hey man hows it going?
Cameron Kiefer
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>That, and their chief took his shot and screwed up ANACS, next. >>
Was that by design or accident? >>
I've wondered that, too. Remember all the BS about leaving ICG for family reasons and retiring? >>
...I was not paying close attention when he left ICG...was under the impression he did so because of the offer made by Whitman (ANACS owner) ... when I spoke with him in the beginning of the "New Day" campaign, he seemed very excited about the prospects for ANACS... he worked hard, travelled alot and it did take a toll on his family life...
...the family home was and still is in Colo... walking distance from ICG... and the family didn't want to move to Austin... he finally left ANACS and after a camping Holiday he was offered a position back w/ ICG...
...at least, that is the story as I understand it...
...is there more to the story? ...perhaps ...if there is, will we ever really know? ... probably not...
As for ICG (and ANACS and any "other" TPG) ...they will never be at "the top of the heap" as long as there is a large (and powerful...ie...big money) network of Dealers who actively promote & support our Host here on the forum and the folks ATS...while at the same time actively and openly denigrate ICG, ANACS and the rest...
...in the TPG game, it is not who grades the best...and 'self-promotion' alone will not help...
...it is a matter of market perception=market acceptability... and that is created by the so-called market makers... i.e. the folks with the most $ to throw around...
...seasoned collectors (and dealers) know that "gems" can be found in any holder...yet how often will we see a coin in an ICG or ANACS holder 'strongly' displayed or promoted by a Major Dealer? ...more often than not, the gems are cracked and/or crossed... is this because the coin is suddenly better in the 'new' holder? ...no, it is because "market perception=market acceptablity=higher prices"...
<< <i>I have no more of a problem with ICG than with any other of the top TPGs. I do think a lot of people (especially dealers) are more careless handling their slabs though. Too many have marred plastic. >>
The marred plastic is more likely the result of the supplier of these slabs who injection molds them. I'm guessing they don't handle them carefully. Also, the resin (plastic) buyer (purchasing manager) may be buying off-spec acrylic to save money or acrylic from a lower quality manufacturer resulting in poor slab appearance.