>>>>Care to name names? Has he/she posted to this thread?
No and no. The buck stops here. He didn't do anything wrong. I'm the one who screwed the pooch with my overstated auction, not my friend. I sincerely hope he hasn't seen this.
The whole issue would have been a non issue if the coin were advertised in the sale as AU 55 + , maybe MS-60. Surface is rough, luster is broken, may have been cleaned. NOT "This coin is problem-free, has excellent eye appeal and grades UNC-60. "
Mine is an accurate representation of the coin. That is how I would have listed it. Then it would not have mattered if the buyer was a novice or more experienced. By the way, Power Sellers sell slabbed "MS-70" coins on a daily basis so the fact that this was a power seller that purchased the coin means nothing as this proves that Power Sellers are not necessarily Power Graders.
You also should have sent the coin back to whoever sold it to you as MS-63 and again, the problem would have been solved before it happened.
Admittedly, I did not read every post as you asked for an opinion based upon the first post and the subsequent picture of the coin that was in a later post was an added feature. Since my opinion was based upon the question and the picture of the coin, the posts I skipped over were not relevant.
Had I seen the auction listing, I would have sent a "Question to the Seller", asking you if you knew the coin was cleaned and that it was not an MS-60. I would have awaited a response which hopefully would have been, "woops I made a mistake and I will relist it more accurately."
The folks that insist that a seven day or ten day return period is passed and that's that should understand that warantees like that are void in the case of mistakes in the listing which admittedly, this was.
I have a hard time imagining why a buyer has to be stuck with the mistake of the seller. Whether a Third Party Grader was discussed in your conversations is not an issue. If the buyer was not expert enough as you suggest by his Power Seller status to grade the coin and surely the buyer must not have been or he would have been able to determine the coin was not an MS-60 in a few seconds, he would have every right to send it to a TGP to determine if it was or was not accurately described. Since it was not as described, your seven day return period means nothing. Your disclaimer also means nothing if in the same ad you actually grade the coin, which you did.
What I see is a dancing around the true issue which was the coin was incorrectly described. That gives the buyer the right to return it. By the way, the issue of him leaving a good feedback is a rampant problem on Ebay, People do not want to get retaliatory negative feedback so they post positives, wait for you to post a positive and then ask for a refund based upon innacurate representations.
Anyway, Thats my opinion and please remember, You asked for opinions.
how is it that some people can buy coins based on thier own judgement and thier own grading skills, as well as adhere to a reasonable return period if they dont like the coin, while others need someone to hold thier hand ?
<< <i> you asked for an opinion based upon the first post... ... the posts I skipped over were not relevant. >>
how do you know they weren't relevant? You skipped over them.
I never asked anyone to grade the coin. The first words of the thread were:
What would YOU do under these circumstances?
The opinion sought had nothing to do with the condition of the coin. I had already decided my course of action before posting the thread. I wanted to see if anyone would refund the grading fees in addition to the auction fees.
Also in the first post:
<< <i>I'd rather not discuss the actual condition or grade of the coin, the point being that when he received the coin, he AGREED with my opinion of the coin's condition. He only wants a refund after getting bagged by TPG. >>
i would offer the guy his money back minus ebay and paypal fees, (if any) that is more than reasonable considering five weeks is four weeks longer than your return policy, your opionion of the coin, or your grading of the coin is not relevant. you stated that you were not a professional, so i would venture to say that the buyer should be responsible for using his own skills to grade the coin, if he cannot, then there are TPGs that will do it for him. at HIS expense. nowhere do i see a guarantee that you will buy back the coin plus any and all associated fees should the coin not grade at or higher than your grading opinion, he already left a pos, if you wann be a nice guy, offer him a refund minus your ebay/paypal fees. anything more is just going to create another ebay moron that expects everyone to hold his hand. too many "Ebidiots" already
<< <i>Had I seen the auction listing, I would have sent a "Question to the Seller", >>
The buyer did exactly that about 5 minutes after his snipe bid. The result of several messages back and forth was that he would examine the coin in hand to decided if he wanted to keep it. But that must not be relevant because you don't know it. And would have only known that by reading the entire thread.
<< <i> Whether a Third Party Grader was discussed in your conversations is not an issue. >>
Huh? It is central to the issue.
<< <i>What I see is a dancing around the true issue which was the coin was incorrectly described. >>
Nobody danced around that issue at all. I own my mistakes. If you had read the entire thread, you would have seen this relevant information. But you decided it was irrelevant without reading it. My biggest mistake was not taking a good, hard, analytical look at the (excellent) photos in the ad. The photos accentuate the dameage to the coin, but that's still not a good excuse. If I had taken a good look at the photos the coin would be in my album and never sold.
<< <i>I have a hard time imagining why a buyer has to be stuck with the mistake of the seller. >>
He wasn't and he isn't stuck. But again, you are posting palp without having read the thread.
Enough for me for a day or two. Golly, I sure hope someone else bumps this tired thread to the top again.
All, Interesting thread. I read through most of the comments but as a brand new, "ignorant" coin collector I would have to side with the buyer in this case...and only because of the way the coin was described in the ad. I don't want to beat a dead horse here because I think it's beginning to smell...but wanted to mention that there is at least one coin company out there on ebay that lists their coins as "uncleaned", "problem free", but after questioning the seller, he admitted that the same description goes on all his coins. I primarily buy certified coins because I'm leery about getting burned. This particular dealer has some really nice coins...and if he got them certified, I would buy from him. Just wanted to let you know that there are some "careless" ads out there that can deceive us "newbies" to the hobby.
I do want to say that I definitely do not think that AB is a bad dealer. I don't even want to go there. He is just fine and he did own up to the mistake. There is no question about it. The question was...What would YOU do under these circumstances?
I would refund his money, pay him for his grading fees, and postage and ebay fees. I would make the buyer "whole" , happy and move on from there.
Many years ago, I sold a coin for an auction. It was described perfectly, the coin was exactly what it was purported to be. So that was no question. The guy who got it expected something completely different. We went back and forth and I stuck to my point that it was "exactly as described" He even submitted the coin to a mutually respected colleague and the coin went back to him after it was acertained by our colleague to be exactly what I said it was. He was not happy. He still wanted to return it but then it was long after my "return period" . The whole thing was a mess and I turned that buyer off completely. To this day, I regret that transaction completely and I should have just given the guy his money back.
I applaud the fact that AB asked this question. I applaud the fact that he made it right. That's about it. I am not looking to debate it point by point , line by line.
once the car leaves the lot.................................................
"government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
Comments
<< <i>The coin was sold to me by a member of this forum as MS-63. I placed the coin for sale the same day I bought it. >>
Care to name names? Has he/she posted to this thread?
>>>>Care to name names? Has he/she posted to this thread?
No and no. The buck stops here. He didn't do anything wrong. I'm the one who screwed the pooch with my overstated auction, not my friend. I sincerely hope he hasn't seen this.
The whole issue would have been a non issue if the coin were advertised in the sale as AU 55 + , maybe MS-60. Surface is rough, luster is broken, may have been cleaned. NOT "This coin is problem-free, has excellent eye appeal and grades UNC-60. "
Mine is an accurate representation of the coin. That is how I would have listed it. Then it would not have mattered if the buyer was a novice or more experienced. By the way, Power Sellers sell slabbed "MS-70" coins on a daily basis so the fact that this was a power seller that purchased the coin means nothing as this proves that Power Sellers are not necessarily Power Graders.
You also should have sent the coin back to whoever sold it to you as MS-63 and again, the problem would have been solved before it happened.
Admittedly, I did not read every post as you asked for an opinion based upon the first post and the subsequent picture of the coin that was in a later post was an added feature. Since my opinion was based upon the question and the picture of the coin, the posts I skipped over were not relevant.
Had I seen the auction listing, I would have sent a "Question to the Seller", asking you if you knew the coin was cleaned and that it was not an MS-60. I would have awaited a response which hopefully would have been, "woops I made a mistake and I will relist it more accurately."
The folks that insist that a seven day or ten day return period is passed and that's that should understand that warantees like that are void in the case of mistakes in the listing which admittedly, this was.
I have a hard time imagining why a buyer has to be stuck with the mistake of the seller. Whether a Third Party Grader was discussed in your conversations is not an issue. If the buyer was not expert enough as you suggest by his Power Seller status to grade the coin and surely the buyer must not have been or he would have been able to determine the coin was not an MS-60 in a few seconds, he would have every right to send it to a TGP to determine if it was or was not accurately described. Since it was not as described, your seven day return period means nothing. Your disclaimer also means nothing if in the same ad you actually grade the coin, which you did.
What I see is a dancing around the true issue which was the coin was incorrectly described. That gives the buyer the right to return it. By the way, the issue of him leaving a good feedback is a rampant problem on Ebay, People do not want to get retaliatory negative feedback so they post positives, wait for you to post a positive and then ask for a refund based upon innacurate representations.
Anyway, Thats my opinion and please remember, You asked for opinions.
Thanks,
Bill
myurl http://www.foundinrolls.com
<< <i> you asked for an opinion based upon the first post... ... the posts I skipped over were not relevant.
>>
how do you know they weren't relevant? You skipped over them.
I never asked anyone to grade the coin. The first words of the thread were:
What would YOU do under these circumstances?
The opinion sought had nothing to do with the condition of the coin. I had already decided my course of action before posting the thread. I wanted to see if anyone would refund the grading fees in addition to the auction fees.
Also in the first post:
<< <i>I'd rather not discuss the actual condition or grade of the coin, the point being that when he received the coin, he AGREED with my opinion of the coin's condition. He only wants a refund after getting bagged by TPG. >>
<< <i>Had I seen the auction listing, I would have sent a "Question to the Seller", >>
The buyer did exactly that about 5 minutes after his snipe bid. The result of several messages back and forth was that he would examine the coin in hand to decided if he wanted to keep it. But that must not be relevant because you don't know it. And would have only known that by reading the entire thread.
<< <i> Whether a Third Party Grader was discussed in your conversations is not an issue. >>
Huh? It is central to the issue.
<< <i>What I see is a dancing around the true issue which was the coin was incorrectly described. >>
Nobody danced around that issue at all. I own my mistakes. If you had read the entire thread, you would have seen this relevant information. But you decided it was irrelevant without reading it. My biggest mistake was not taking a good, hard, analytical look at the (excellent) photos in the ad. The photos accentuate the dameage to the coin, but that's still not a good excuse. If I had taken a good look at the photos the coin would be in my album and never sold.
<< <i>I have a hard time imagining why a buyer has to be stuck with the mistake of the seller. >>
He wasn't and he isn't stuck. But again, you are posting palp without having read the thread.
Enough for me for a day or two. Golly, I sure hope someone else bumps this tired thread to the top again.
Interesting thread. I read through most of the comments but as a brand new, "ignorant" coin collector I would have to side with the buyer in this case...and only because of the way the coin was described in the ad. I don't want to beat a dead horse here because I think it's beginning to smell...but wanted to mention that there is at least one coin company out there on ebay that lists their coins as "uncleaned", "problem free", but after questioning the seller, he admitted that the same description goes on all his coins. I primarily buy certified coins because I'm leery about getting burned. This particular dealer has some really nice coins...and if he got them certified, I would buy from him. Just wanted to let you know that there are some "careless" ads out there that can deceive us "newbies" to the hobby.
for that i give him credit.
Steve
I would refund his money, pay him for his grading fees, and postage and ebay fees. I would make the buyer "whole" , happy and move on from there.
Many years ago, I sold a coin for an auction. It was described perfectly, the coin was exactly what it was purported to be. So that was no question. The guy who got it expected something completely different. We went back and forth and I stuck to my point that it was "exactly as described" He even submitted the coin to a mutually respected colleague and the coin went back to him after it was acertained by our colleague to be exactly what I said it was. He was not happy. He still wanted to return it but then it was long after my "return period" . The whole thing was a mess and I turned that buyer off completely. To this day, I regret that transaction completely and I should have just given the guy his money back.
I applaud the fact that AB asked this question. I applaud the fact that he made it right. That's about it. I am not looking to debate it point by point , line by line.
Thanks,
Bill
myurl http://www.foundinrolls.com
once the car leaves the lot.................................................
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<< <i>once the car leaves the lot................................................. >>
A driver can put on the breaks, and go put the car back in the garage:-)
myurl http://www.foundinrolls.com