It may be irrelavant to you, and me and the guy next door. The thing is it is relavant to those that put up the dough.
IMO
Steve >>
I realize that but I think it distracts from the real questions about authenticity, fraud and quality of goods sold. The price paid seems to be secondary (since no one complained about paying it) to the more important question of what you got for that price.
I just went through and looked at BBC Exchange's Ended E-bay auctions from August till the end of the year, I Did NOT see an Fmmench anywhere in the completed auctions. IF someone else wants to look be my guest.
<< <i> So you would be happy buying a new car with 10 miles and find out later that 15,000 miles have been rolled back? >>
A more accurate analogy would be paying $12,000 for the same car you would have gotten for $9,000 down the street. In the end, it doesn't matter if you paid $9,000 or $12,000 when you got a lemon on your hands.
You're a scumbag. We have no use for you here. You are an anchor around this board's neck. Please take your lies and deceit elsewhere as I would like to get back to my hobby with my friends.
A wiser man than myself once defined the term 'character' as "That which we do when no one else is around." You chose to lie and deceive us for a profit. My hope is that through all of this you have -- and will continue to be -- exposed for the self-centered liar you really are and dealers, both on this board and elsewhere, will cease to sell to and/or buy from you.
keep looking through steves feedback youll see where i left him pos feedback from the stuff i bought. like i said after the first rip went so well i was laready buying and stashing boxes for the second rip over a month before it came to be.
<< <i>i lied about somethings all in the name of making money
So, I guess the next question is how much money did you make off the guys?
Steve >>
I still contend that is irrelevant. If you had not participated in the rips, you could have gotten the same packs at a cheaper price otherwise. It appears everyone was satisfied with the price being paid to be part of the community rip. >>
<< <i>keep looking through steves feedback youll see where i left him pos feedback from the stuff i bought. like i said after the first rip went so well i was laready buying and stashing boxes for the second rip over a month before it came to be. >>
Since you know when it was why dont you just post yourself ? Link it, paste it, something.
How did you not wanting Steve to ship the 1978 topps directly fit into the business plan. How was shipping them directly to you then you shipping them out going to make you money
I like the notion that we're supposed to believe Gary is capable of lying to people to make a profit, but incapable of resealing packs to make a profit. I'm not sure I see the difference.
Bucc- The notion that he's making money on rips really isn't the issue. It's the fact that he came out a while back and flat out denied that he has made anything off of the rips. It is directly related to his credibility, of which at this point, he has none.
For the record, I participated in the first rip (80s topps packs) which was well run. I paid $27 and still think that was way too much (I don't put any value on the intangibles of a community rip). No way I would have participated in the other rips, either at a 80sjunkie Markup Special or at cost. This is the same reason why I will not buy any boxes/packs off of eBay or have discouraged others from doing the same thing.
<< <i>Has the storm calmed where we can all be civilized now. can some of you accept the truth probably not and you probably still swear i did something horribly wrong. but her it is
Ok you want the truth ? Can you handle the truth? No I did not tamper with search reseal or mess with any of the packs in any way. Q. Did I make some money on the rips A. oh yeah it was all business baby.
Q. did all the boxes come from bbce. All the baseball rip boxes came from bbce or da cardworld I will explain below. A couple of the wax boxes on the foot ball rip came from other sources because bbce and da carworld were out.
Now how did I make money on this and still get all the boxes from bbce . Here it is all laid out and you can take it as you wish. The first baseball rip. Complete 80’s rip. I’m not going to sit down and work out the exact numbers again I’m going to use examples to show how this worked Ok I went to steves website and priced all the boxes for the rip according to his posted prices. Let say the total was 3,000 or something like that. We divided that added shipping paypal and came up with a price per lot. Now everyone who signed up was obviously happy with the price right no one twisted you arm and said hey you better signup . Am I wrong here? No you decided that was a good price for all those packs and from a guaranteed source. Now I said all boxes would come from bbce or dacardworld. Which they did so how did I make money. Follow along here. As I said I used the posted price off of steves site to come up with the cost right? Now I had bought a case of 85 donruss from steve at national this last summer I paid 1500 for the case which is 90 a box right. On his site he sells them for 90. so I use one of the boxes I bought from steve this summer for the rip. The box is still clean untampered with and came from steve right? Now I made 10 off that box. Steve was also running ebay auctions at the time and I bought a lot of his auctions. Another example I won a case of 87 fleer from him for 1200 that’s 60 a box right. He sells them on his site for 100 the price figured into the rip. I use again a untampered case fresh box that came from bbce which I only paid 60 for and now made 40 off that box. 1983 michigan box won it from steve off ebay for 78 bucks he sells it on his site for 140 again made 62 bucks Bought the 82 83 donruss and a few others again from steve but through his ebay auctions for considerable less then he sells them on his site. Again these boxes still came from steve 85 topps box steve sells on his site for 125 I bought a case from dacw at national for 2000 or 100 a box used one of those for the rip made another 25 bucks. And same thing with the second rip I used boxes I got from steve or dacw at way below the advertised price.
I
Do you see where these examples are going. As much as so many would like to believe that I tampered with or resealed everything. This was all about business and making money not trying to reseal packs or get money cards out of it. Some may not like how I did this but again. I came up with the figure using the prices off of steves website and again obviously everyone was happy with the price or they did have to get in. and all the boxes one way or another came from steve or dacw just the price I paid for them was different then the price that was figured in the rip
When we figured the price of the rips we based it on the advertised price on bbce websitre and everyone agreed on the price or wouldnot have joined. Now if I was able to find ways to get the boxes cheaper as long as they still came from bbce or dacw I don’t see where there was a problem in that. Those rips did take a lot of time and efforet to put together.
Bottom line is I played the middleman or broker and basically got what everyone wanted for a price they were happy with from the sources they wanted it from and in the process made a few bucks
I hate steve got kinda put in the middle of this but go ahead and ask him. Did I buy some full cases from him for good deals was I buying a lot of 80s boxes off of his ebay auctions. The answers are all yes and the above is how it all came to be
The football rips is the only rip where all the boxes did not come from bbce. Why because when I placed the order he was out of 78 and we all new he didn’t have 77 or 80 the 80 I gor from Pittsburgh sprots whole sale the 77 from a reutable dealer I am personal friends with who gave me a great deal and the 78 yes came off of ebay when all other sources were exhausted. And I even paid more for the 78 box then was figured into the rip.
The basketball rip all five boxes came from bbce in one order straight of the website nothing to discuss here.
So there it is all out in the wash. I know plenty will come on here and still swear I did something horribly wrong and I will never be able to change that opinion. Beacuase yes the ebay activity looks bad but this is all about the rips I will not make anymore comments or try to defend what I do on ebay. Bottom line is I make money people may not like how I do it. And I don’t do it by resealing or tampering with packs but it works.
Say what you will but there it all is im not gonna answer anymore silly questions from guys trying to attack me about the ebay practices or any of that. I did not tamper with any packs or reseal any packs from any rips. Some might say my business practices are a little unethical but all the product was pure and untouched wax there are your answers and like em or not it is the truth and nothing but the truth >>
I was dumbfounded when I read this as I couldn't believe that Gary would have the audacity to admit to numerous lies. Just wanted this up here in case Johnny McEditer shows up again.
<< <i>keep looking through steves feedback youll see where i left him pos feedback from the stuff i bought. like i said after the first rip went so well i was laready buying and stashing boxes for the second rip over a month before it came to be. >>
Gary, this just sounds bad (at least to me). This sounds like premeditation. You should have been upfront about your motives after the first rip. You should have let ALL involved know these facts. Because YOU didn't, you now have opened a hornet's nest.
#LetsGoSwitzerlandThe Man Who Does Not Read Has No Advantage Over the Man Who Cannot Read. The biggest obstacle to progress is a habit of “buying what we want and begging for what we need.”You get the Freedom you fight for and get the Oppression you deserve.
for those who just cant sto diggin heres some auction numbers for ya. 120057217269
120056087468
120053005219
120053005078
120053004991
120053004852
120053004843
120048064170
120048063087
120048063145
and cds why dont you send your packs in for grading and stick them up your you know what when them come back authentic you started this witch hunt and you just cant let it go. you need help man
<< <i>I like the notion that we're supposed to believe Gary is capable of lying to people to make a profit, but incapable of resealing packs to make a profit. I'm not sure I see the difference.
Bucc- The notion that he's making money on rips really isn't the issue. It's the fact that he came out a while back and flat out denied that he has made anything off of the rips. It is directly related to his credibility, of which at this point, he has none.
Lee >>
I understand, Lee. I think he has far more credibility issues than whether he stated he was not going to make money (which I either didn't see or ignored). I wouldn't have made my decision on whether to participate or not if I had known one way or the other.
It may be irrelavant to you, and me and the guy next door. The thing is it is relavant to those that put up the dough.
IMO
Steve >>
I realize that but I think it distracts from the real questions about authenticity, fraud and quality of goods sold. The price paid seems to be secondary (since no one complained about paying it) to the more important question of what you got for that price. >>
I understand where you are coming from but that's not the point.
We are supposed to take his word those packs came from BBCE. People paid the agreed upon price because they were under the assumption the boxes would be purchased from BBCE from his current inventory. Gary very well could have purchased material from BBCE in the past, but how do you KNOW the packs distributed were in fact from Steve?
Considering his credibility is shot, do you still take his word for it?
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
I hope that someone is saving all of these posts...pretty damning material....I believe he has incriminated himself numerous times. Is anyone involved considering either criminal or civil action? I believe that those parties involved would have a strong case. In a civil case, you have to prove liability by a preponderence of the evidence...I think that is evident here.
and cds why dont you send your packs in for grading and stick them up your you know what when them come back authentic you started this witch hunt and you just cant let it go. you need help man
gary
you are missing the point. even if the packs Cd has left do come back authentic that means little at this point. since you like to quote the bottom line, the bottom line is this, you have lied and lied and lied all for a few bucks and POSSIBLY some cards. I suggest you just answer the few remaining questions and move on.
That trust should have been suspended when the early revelations regarding the guy's EBAY FB were made.
Does anybody recall when that issue first came to light here? Does anybody recall what the guy's "explanation" was?
Hopefully, anybody who was aware of the issue and still proceeded to have ANY contact with the guy will know better next time a similar circumstance presents itself.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
<< <i>ok im gone i knew this would just turn into another downhill spiral. >>
That's because of the poor presentation of your part in this venture!
First, the structure - the remarks - e.g.: A. oh yeah it was all business baby.
That was just plain petulent and facetious.
Second, the tone - there is not a hint of contrition that I can see.
Third - there's still alot of unanswered questions.
You had all kinds of time to come up with something better than this.
Heck - you're not even a good liar!
I asked you to present your side with honesty - you stuck it them rather than being contrite.
IMO - based on what you've done - if I had lost money? I would be seeing what can be done to have you arrested for fraud. What you've done is Larseny by Trickery - you let people think they're getting something for less and then take advantage of them.
first of all, someone who does all the work should get something for their trouble, BUT it should be clear up fornt as to what the compensation is. scenerios such as this happen all the time, for example, when someone organizes a football block pool for the superbowl, whoever organizes it usually gets 1 or 2 squares for free, while everyone else pays the $20 per square. that is normal, but that is stated up front so everyone is aware and agreed to it. i think it certainly was a hassle and alot of work for someone to organize these rips as well as running alot of $ thru paypal acct which has to be justified at year end. so naturally they deserve alittle compensation. BUT be upfront about it from the start. it is bad character to quote prices to your (friends) and then find the product at a discount and charge the initial price still. a good example would have been that the $155 per person pack rip would have been free for you. thats fair only if agreed upon upfront. no need to hussle your friends. plus if you already had the products, you should not have quotes steve's higher price from his site for that item. the intent is to deceive. you may added that product to the list knowing you had it inventoried already to make money. thats just wrong.
i do respect the attempt of explaining this so far in his initial post on this thread. however i do not agree with the methods used. very bad judgement call on your part. btw, your math was off on the case/box equilalent. $1500/20 is $75 not $90 so you made more than the initial $10. but that isnt the main point here. also, who is going to trust that you bought these cases at shows from whoever you claimed you did. once you have lost trust, it is so hard to earn it back. just my thoughts here.
<< <i>for those who just cant sto diggin heres some auction numbers for ya. 120057217269
120056087468
120053005219
120053005078
120053004991
120053004852
120053004843
120048064170
120048063087
120048063145
and cds why dont you send your packs in for grading and stick them up your you know what when them come back authentic you started this witch hunt and you just cant let it go. you need help man >>
I apologize to the rest of the board members, but ...
F YOU GARY. Not once have I heard anything that remotely resembles an apology or remorse. Instead, we get piss and vinegar from you. Does the fact that you're ruined dozens of relationships with people you once referred to as "friends" mean anything to you? If we're going to begin creating a list of people who "need help" than I'm guessing you're first on the list.
You know what people do when they get caught/accused of committing a crime they know they did? They offer up a lesser offense in an attempt to convince the accusers that they can be trusted. "I'll admit that I did X but I didn't do Y." It's a way of bargaining their way out of a more serious conviction.
stown i dont care what you believe I have come clean and really dont care what you or anyone else belives anymore. I feel beeter now that the truth is out there i fell better and can watch guys like you just keep up with the conspiracy theories because no matter what i say you will come up with something else because you want to believe in something so bad. stown are you this passionat about your collection
It may be irrelavant to you, and me and the guy next door. The thing is it is relavant to those that put up the dough.
IMO
Steve >>
I realize that but I think it distracts from the real questions about authenticity, fraud and quality of goods sold. The price paid seems to be secondary (since no one complained about paying it) to the more important question of what you got for that price. >>
I understand where you are coming from but that's not the point.
We are supposed to take his word those packs came from BBCE. People paid the agreed upon price because they were under the assumption the boxes would be purchased from BBCE from his current inventory. Gary very well could have purchased material from BBCE in the past, but how do you KNOW the packs distributed were in fact from Steve?
Considering his credibility is shot, do you still take his word for it? >>
No, absolutely not. I have not nor will not ever buy anything from this scumbag. I really do understand that point everyone is saying about false pretenses. I just want the discussion to get back on the pointed questions that junkies is conveniently choosing not to answer. You alluded to this as well: regardless whether the packs were marked up or not, what were the sources for every one of them. There are still a lot of questions regarding this that needs to be answered.
if he made a little extra $$$ for legwork, then so be it.
nobody has found resealed anything, so that is very disputable.
Looking back, I think Gary probably simply wishes he had been forthright about making extra $$ for legwork, but that is usually understandable and implied in doing the legwork?
I think Gary was dishonest, and that is pretty absurd, but i think we should leave the guy alone. He has offered refunds to perspective people that wanted and closed his e-bay store. Anything else is pure evil satisfaction from us against Gary, i think you all have proved a point.
Bottom line here is that he lied to all of us and betrayed our trust. I'm still wondering about the empty 1975 box he bought off ebay with the wrappers and gum included and then posted as part of his old man find in a later post.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Gary won't reply to my questions in the other thread or my private PMs. I'll try here since he's replying here:
Gary's New story: The football rips is the only rip where all the boxes did not come from bbce. Why because when I placed the order he was out of 78 and we all new he didn’t have 77 or 80 the 80 I gor from Pittsburgh sprots whole sale the 77 from a reutable dealer I am personal friends with who gave me a great deal and the 78 yes came off of ebay when all other sources were exhausted. And I even paid more for the 78 box then was figured into the rip.
The only reason I got involved in this is because I thought the boxes were coming from BBCE and/or DACW. Now he admits that three of the boxes came from other sources (including a "reputable" dealer that he is "personal friends with" - that certainly inspires confidence). He has also NEVER told us where the 84 box in this rip (much less the alleged 84 case) came from. Therefore, by his own admission, 25% of his supply was not as advertised (i.e., fraudulent).
With his admission, I believe this is now actionable.
<< <i>I just went through and looked at BBC Exchange's Ended E-bay auctions from August till the end of the year, I Did NOT see an Fmmench anywhere in the completed auctions. IF someone else wants to look be my guest. >>
TB One thing for sure - people can contact BBCEx on monday and see if they were purchased.
My belief? No one should exploit a profit from people here without their DIRECT consent...Ever.
if he made a little extra $$$ for legwork, then so be it.
nobody has found resealed anything, so that is very disputable.
Looking back, I think Gary probably simply wishes he had been forthright about making extra $$ for legwork, but that is usually understandable and implied in doing the legwork?
I think Gary was dishonest, and that is pretty absurd, but i think we should leave the guy alone. He has offered refunds to perspective people that wanted and closed his e-bay store. Anything else is pure evil satisfaction from us against Gary, i think you all have proved a point.
Julen >>
Julen, I agree with some of what you're saying. I made some initial observations at the bery beginning of all of this and have left it alone for some time now. The only reason I am chiming in now is to have my voice heard as a member of this forum that no longer wishes to see Gary around.
<< <i>stown i dont care what you believe I have come clean and really dont care what you or anyone else belives anymore. I feel beeter now that the truth is out there i fell better and can watch guys like you just keep up with the conspiracy theories because no matter what i say you will come up with something else because you want to believe in something so bad. stown are you this passionat about your collection >>
Then why don't you answer f@$%!#! answer the specific questions about some of the boxes and charity?
The only thing I would be working on now is not trying to sleaze your way out of this but to find a way to refund the monies.
I wasn't part of any of the rips, except seeing who got what. I can't help but think of the children's cartoon movie called American Tale. Its a story set with mice being the main characters. When one of the "rats" who was supposed to be helping the mice out, was infact exposed to be a "cat", he makes the profound statement "WHO ARE YOU GOING TO BELIEVE , ME OUR YOUR OWN EYES? "
Insted of saying , " guys I lied to you, I'm sorry , here's what I really did" , you really are asking alot from the people of this forum. Were you really hoping that they would have believed your first set of lies. Isn't that what you offered up? The guys on this forum , I wish I knew better , as for the most part, they are smart , funny, helpful, the type of friends I wish were in my life .You purposely lied to them .Some went to bat REAL bad for you, which only made them look bad.
You seem like the type of person that would tell a loved one "IF YOU LOVE ME , YOU"LL LET ME LIE TO YOU AND BELIEVE IT ". I see this type more than I care to see. You have had much time and many chances to come clean and in my opinion, you only offered up more of the same type of crap , that you probably have been doing most of your life.
I can't believe your nose isn't a foot long since Friday. Goodbye, Sonny
" In a time of universal deceit , telling the truth is a revolutionary act " --- George Orwell
<< <i>stown i dont care what you believe I have come clean and really dont care what you or anyone else belives anymore. I feel beeter now that the truth is out there i fell better and can watch guys like you just keep up with the conspiracy theories because no matter what i say you will come up with something else because you want to believe in something so bad. stown are you this passionat about your collection >>
If you were honest upfront, this would have never happened. In fact, everyone probably wouldn't have minded off-setting a little for you to do the leg work.
Instead, you meliciously deceived fellow board members for money.
You whined and cried how people were allegedly accusing you of making some on the side, when in fact, it was what you were doing.
You lied and lied and lied and lied... What's the truth? Unfortuantely, we will never know, only you will. Thank Jebus you didn't pull off you feeble attempt at a grand slam with the '84 case break. Greedy little turd.
I honestly hope that some day you will come clean 100% for everything. Maybe, just maybe, people will start to forgive what you did and were trying to do.
Until then, pi$$ off.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
"IT WAS ALL BUSINESS BABY"???? what a classic quote
you are a pompous jack -ss and you sold your name for a few dollars.
i hope you believe you got a good deal by lieing to others for what it cost your repuatation. it appears that your ebay store is heading for the hills how does that work for you financially? are you so PETTY that making a few bucks without telling people was worth it to you? good God man, is that what you laid awake a night thinking, there a bunch of fish on the PSA board and here is how i can squirrel a some money out of them with something less than i proposed.
do people deserve a little extra for organizing? maybe--that is a debateable point. no one held a gun to your head to do this, so getting a kickback is not a given.
people get into heated words with others on this board daily and while some people may want to wring a few necks (my neck included) 99%+ are welcomed back for their diverse opinions. however you have been to go far far away. even as nuts as rich was he was never told that no one wanted him around. i remember a couple of post that xanadu and i had, but his trailer is never so true.
i don't think i am a victim of your DECEIT, but that makes me think no higher of you. every few hours more and more stories trickle out from you about what really happened. i guess you think that maybe i will tell them this and all will be well. at this point other than a total refund you have no leg to stand on. regardless if most packs were clean people have a perception of you as a thief. A THIEF-I'll say it AGAIN A THIEF. How does that sound?
I cannot tell BBCE how to run their business, but you would be person non grata if I were Mr. Hart. If I were him even having my name remotely associated with you in any manner would make me ill.
<< <i>stown i dont care what you believe I have come clean and really dont care what you or anyone else belives anymore. I feel beeter now that the truth is out there i fell better and can watch guys like you just keep up with the conspiracy theories because no matter what i say you will come up with something else because you want to believe in something so bad. stown are you this passionat about your collection >>
Gary
I think another shower is necessary something still stinks , you still have some more unanswered guestions that you have been dodging but i must admit the confession about making a profit has deflected some of the other questions about the packs wrappers and commons you were buying on ebay
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Again he runs away instead of answering the questions.
84 topps FB???????
86 Topps BK box?????????
Cards for Kids?????????
What ever the deal is with the 84 Topps FB, the 86 Topps BK and the cards for kids most be pretty bad since he flat out refuses to answer those questions.
I have participated in 4 rips that you put together. If I would have known that the stuff I was receiving was coming from your inventory I would not have participated. You also have to know that most wouldn't have.
You are a liar and a thief You lied about making money on the rips because you knew it was wrong. You are a criminal and I hope your business suffers for it.
My daughter was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at the age of 2 (2003). My son was diagnosed with Type 1 when he was 17 on December 31, 2009. We were stunned that another child of ours had been diagnosed. Please, if you don't have a favorite charity, consider giving to the JDRF (Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation)
<< <i>Again he runs away instead of answering the questions.
84 topps FB???????
86 Topps BK box?????????
Cards for Kids?????????
What ever the deal is with the 84 Topps FB, the 86 Topps BK and the cards for kids most be pretty bad since he flat out refuses to answer those questions.
I have participated in 4 rips that you put together. If I would have known that the stuff I was receiving was coming from your inventory I would not have participated. You also have to know that most wouldn't have.
You are a liar and a thief You lied about making money on the rips because you knew it was wrong. You are a criminal and I hope your business suffers for it. >>
And these well made points were what I was getting at. Sorry for the diversion about profits.
if he made a little extra $$$ for legwork, then so be it.
nobody has found resealed anything, so that is very disputable.
Looking back, I think Gary probably simply wishes he had been forthright about making extra $$ for legwork, but that is usually understandable and implied in doing the legwork?
I think Gary was dishonest, and that is pretty absurd, but i think we should leave the guy alone. He has offered refunds to perspective people that wanted and closed his e-bay store. Anything else is pure evil satisfaction from us against Gary, i think you all have proved a point.
Julen >>
Julen
This is not entirely true.
I saw a pack that was posted that looks really, really bad.
Plus, we got input from Gemint - who's an incredibly reliable, informed and honest individual state with conviction that his packs were bad - he even posted his PMs to Gary.
So, with all due respect, this is still not a simple - "I made a profit - so what - you got yours - I got mine" type thing.
I do appreciate honesty and Gary coming forth - but everything is in the presentation.
<< <i>sure gumby fan ill dig them out now. but if someone does the math i won the 87 fleer wrappers march 1st the day the packs were sent out so obviously i havent even recieved those wrappers yet but of coursethat does not matter >>
Here is what's pissing me off. What the @%#$! would a dealer of unopened wax boxes/packs be buying wax wrappers????
<< <i>stown i dont care what you believe I have come clean and really dont care what you or anyone else belives anymore. I feel beeter now that the truth is out there i fell better and can watch guys like you just keep up with the conspiracy theories because no matter what i say you will come up with something else because you want to believe in something so bad. stown are you this passionat about your collection >>
Gary
Are you talking to me? We have a Stown on this board.
Comments
<< <i>ok im gone i knew this would just turn into another downhill spiral. >>
Gary
All right think about it some more and get back to us . I can't wait to hear what the newest truths and business ventures are the next time you post
View Vintage Football Cards For Sale
<< <i>Steve
It may be irrelavant to you, and me and the guy next door. The thing is it is relavant to those that put up the dough.
IMO
Steve >>
I realize that but I think it distracts from the real questions about authenticity, fraud and quality of goods sold. The price paid seems to be secondary (since no one complained about paying it) to the more important question of what you got for that price.
<< <i>
So you would be happy buying a new car with 10 miles and find out later that 15,000 miles have been rolled back? >>
A more accurate analogy would be paying $12,000 for the same car you would have gotten for $9,000 down the street. In the end, it doesn't matter if you paid $9,000 or $12,000 when you got a lemon on your hands.
View Vintage Football Cards For Sale
On a side note, bbce has 2373 pages of feedback. WOW!
Charles
<< <i>Q. Did I make some money on the rips A. oh yeah it was all business baby >>
This remark is facetious and truculent.
You've got a problem Gary - I don't think you have any idea what the spirit is behind a Collecting Community.
I was annoyed with itsingthegrade for saying he uses his ebay activity to defray hobby cost and I found he had 3500 items on ebay...
That was just innocent spamming - deriving a profit without the direct consent of the participants is deplorable!
You're a scumbag. We have no use for you here. You are an anchor around this board's neck. Please take your lies and deceit elsewhere as I would like to get back to my hobby with my friends.
A wiser man than myself once defined the term 'character' as "That which we do when no one else is around." You chose to lie and deceive us for a profit. My hope is that through all of this you have -- and will continue to be -- exposed for the self-centered liar you really are and dealers, both on this board and elsewhere, will cease to sell to and/or buy from you.
I hope it was worth it to you.
Arthur
<< <i>
<< <i>i lied about somethings all in the name of making money
So, I guess the next question is how much money did you make off the guys?
Steve >>
I still contend that is irrelevant. If you had not participated in the rips, you could have gotten the same packs at a cheaper price otherwise. It appears everyone was satisfied with the price being paid to be part of the community rip. >>
.... under false pretenses.
Arthur
2373 is a lot of feedback to check.
<< <i>keep looking through steves feedback youll see where i left him pos feedback from the stuff i bought. like i said after the first rip went so well i was laready buying and stashing boxes for the second rip over a month before it came to be. >>
Since you know when it was why dont you just post yourself ? Link it, paste it, something.
How did you not wanting Steve to ship the 1978 topps directly fit into the business plan. How was shipping them directly to you then you shipping them out going to make you money
Bucc- The notion that he's making money on rips really isn't the issue. It's the fact that he came out a while back and flat out denied that he has made anything off of the rips. It is directly related to his credibility, of which at this point, he has none.
Lee
<< <i>... under false pretenses. >>
Understood.
For the record, I participated in the first rip (80s topps packs) which was well run. I paid $27 and still think that was way too much (I don't put any value on the intangibles of a community rip). No way I would have participated in the other rips, either at a 80sjunkie Markup Special or at cost. This is the same reason why I will not buy any boxes/packs off of eBay or have discouraged others from doing the same thing.
<< <i>Has the storm calmed where we can all be civilized now. can some of you accept the truth probably not and you probably still swear i did something horribly wrong. but her it is
Ok you want the truth ? Can you handle the truth?
No I did not tamper with search reseal or mess with any of the packs in any way.
Q. Did I make some money on the rips
A. oh yeah it was all business baby.
Q. did all the boxes come from bbce.
All the baseball rip boxes came from bbce or da cardworld I will explain below.
A couple of the wax boxes on the foot ball rip came from other sources because bbce and da carworld were out.
Now how did I make money on this and still get all the boxes from bbce . Here it is all laid out and you can take it as you wish. The first baseball rip. Complete 80’s rip.
I’m not going to sit down and work out the exact numbers again I’m going to use examples to show how this worked
Ok I went to steves website and priced all the boxes for the rip according to his posted prices. Let say the total was 3,000 or something like that. We divided that added shipping paypal and came up with a price per lot. Now everyone who signed up was obviously happy with the price right no one twisted you arm and said hey you better signup . Am I wrong here? No you decided that was a good price for all those packs and from a guaranteed source.
Now I said all boxes would come from bbce or dacardworld. Which they did so how did I make money.
Follow along here. As I said I used the posted price off of steves site to come up with the cost right?
Now I had bought a case of 85 donruss from steve at national this last summer I paid 1500 for the case which is 90 a box right. On his site he sells them for 90. so I use one of the boxes I bought from steve this summer for the rip. The box is still clean untampered with and came from steve right? Now I made 10 off that box.
Steve was also running ebay auctions at the time and I bought a lot of his auctions.
Another example I won a case of 87 fleer from him for 1200 that’s 60 a box right. He sells them on his site for 100 the price figured into the rip. I use again a untampered case fresh box that came from bbce which I only paid 60 for and now made 40 off that box.
1983 michigan box won it from steve off ebay for 78 bucks he sells it on his site for 140 again made 62 bucks
Bought the 82 83 donruss and a few others again from steve but through his ebay auctions for considerable less then he sells them on his site. Again these boxes still came from steve
85 topps box steve sells on his site for 125 I bought a case from dacw at national for 2000 or 100 a box used one of those for the rip made another 25 bucks. And same thing with the second rip I used boxes I got from steve or dacw at way below the advertised price.
I
Do you see where these examples are going. As much as so many would like to believe that I tampered with or resealed everything. This was all about business and making money not trying to reseal packs or get money cards out of it.
Some may not like how I did this but again. I came up with the figure using the prices off of steves website and again obviously everyone was happy with the price or they did have to get in. and all the boxes one way or another came from steve or dacw just the price I paid for them was different then the price that was figured in the rip
When we figured the price of the rips we based it on the advertised price on bbce websitre and everyone agreed on the price or wouldnot have joined.
Now if I was able to find ways to get the boxes cheaper as long as they still came from bbce or dacw I don’t see where there was a problem in that. Those rips did take a lot of time and efforet to put together.
Bottom line is I played the middleman or broker and basically got what everyone wanted for a price they were happy with from the sources they wanted it from and in the process made a few bucks
I hate steve got kinda put in the middle of this but go ahead and ask him. Did I buy some full cases from him for good deals was I buying a lot of 80s boxes off of his ebay auctions. The answers are all yes and the above is how it all came to be
The football rips is the only rip where all the boxes did not come from bbce. Why because when I placed the order he was out of 78 and we all new he didn’t have 77 or 80 the 80 I gor from Pittsburgh sprots whole sale the 77 from a reutable dealer I am personal friends with who gave me a great deal and the 78 yes came off of ebay when all other sources were exhausted. And I even paid more for the 78 box then was figured into the rip.
The basketball rip all five boxes came from bbce in one order straight of the website nothing to discuss here.
So there it is all out in the wash. I know plenty will come on here and still swear I did something horribly wrong and I will never be able to change that opinion. Beacuase yes the ebay activity looks bad but this is all about the rips I will not make anymore comments or try to defend what I do on ebay. Bottom line is I make money people may not like how I do it. And I don’t do it by resealing or tampering with packs but it works.
Say what you will but there it all is im not gonna answer anymore silly questions from guys trying to attack me about the ebay practices or any of that. I did not tamper with any packs or reseal any packs from any rips. Some might say my business practices are a little unethical but all the product was pure and untouched wax there are your answers and like em or not it is the truth and nothing but the truth >>
I was dumbfounded when I read this as I couldn't believe that Gary would have the audacity to admit to numerous lies. Just wanted this up here in case Johnny McEditer shows up again.
Arthur
86 Topps BK box?????????
Cards for Kids?????????
Still waiting!
61 Topps (100%) 7.96
62 Parkhurst (100%) 8.70
63 Topps (100%) 7.96
63 York WB's (50%) 8.52
68 Topps (39%) 8.54
69 Topps (3%) 9.00
69 OPC (83%) 8.21
71 Topps (100%) 9.21 #1 A.T.F.
72 Topps (100%) 9.39
73 Topps (13%) 9.35
74 OPC WHA (95%) 8.57
75 Topps (50%) 9.23
77 OPC WHA (86%) 8.62 #1 A.T.F.
88 Topps (5%) 10.00
<< <i>keep looking through steves feedback youll see where i left him pos feedback from the stuff i bought. like i said after the first rip went so well i was laready buying and stashing boxes for the second rip over a month before it came to be. >>
Gary, this just sounds bad (at least to me). This sounds like premeditation. You should have been upfront about your motives after the first rip. You should have let ALL involved know these facts. Because YOU didn't, you now have opened a hornet's nest.
120057217269
120056087468
120053005219
120053005078
120053004991
120053004852
120053004843
120048064170
120048063087
120048063145
and cds why dont you send your packs in for grading and stick them up your you know what when them come back authentic you started this witch hunt and you just cant let it go. you need help man
<< <i>I like the notion that we're supposed to believe Gary is capable of lying to people to make a profit, but incapable of resealing packs to make a profit. I'm not sure I see the difference.
Bucc- The notion that he's making money on rips really isn't the issue. It's the fact that he came out a while back and flat out denied that he has made anything off of the rips. It is directly related to his credibility, of which at this point, he has none.
Lee >>
I understand, Lee. I think he has far more credibility issues than whether he stated he was not going to make money (which I either didn't see or ignored). I wouldn't have made my decision on whether to participate or not if I had known one way or the other.
<< <i>
<< <i>Steve
It may be irrelavant to you, and me and the guy next door. The thing is it is relavant to those that put up the dough.
IMO
Steve >>
I realize that but I think it distracts from the real questions about authenticity, fraud and quality of goods sold. The price paid seems to be secondary (since no one complained about paying it) to the more important question of what you got for that price. >>
I understand where you are coming from but that's not the point.
We are supposed to take his word those packs came from BBCE. People paid the agreed upon price because they were under the assumption the boxes would be purchased from BBCE from his current inventory. Gary very well could have purchased material from BBCE in the past, but how do you KNOW the packs distributed were in fact from Steve?
Considering his credibility is shot, do you still take his word for it?
View Vintage Football Cards For Sale
gary
you are missing the point. even if the packs Cd has left do come back authentic that means little at this point. since you like to quote the bottom line, the bottom line is this, you have lied and lied and lied all for a few bucks and POSSIBLY some cards. I suggest you just answer the few remaining questions and move on.
Steve
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
That trust should have been suspended when the early
revelations regarding the guy's EBAY FB were made.
Does anybody recall when that issue first came to light here?
Does anybody recall what the guy's "explanation" was?
Hopefully, anybody who was aware of the issue and still proceeded
to have ANY contact with the guy will know better next time a
similar circumstance presents itself.
<< <i>ok im gone i knew this would just turn into another downhill spiral. >>
That's because of the poor presentation of your part in this venture!
First, the structure - the remarks - e.g.: A. oh yeah it was all business baby.
That was just plain petulent and facetious.
Second, the tone - there is not a hint of contrition that I can see.
Third - there's still alot of unanswered questions.
You had all kinds of time to come up with something better than this.
Heck - you're not even a good liar!
I asked you to present your side with honesty - you stuck it them rather than being contrite.
IMO - based on what you've done - if I had lost money? I would be seeing what can be done to have you arrested for fraud. What you've done is Larseny by Trickery - you let people think they're getting something for less and then take advantage of them.
<< <i>Like the saying goes... money is the root of all evil! >>
Actually, BigDady, it is the love of money which is the root of all evil. Which makes a lot of sense
i do respect the attempt of explaining this so far in his initial post on this thread. however i do not agree with the methods used. very bad judgement call on your part. btw, your math was off on the case/box equilalent. $1500/20 is $75 not $90 so you made more than the initial $10. but that isnt the main point here. also, who is going to trust that you bought these cases at shows from whoever you claimed you did. once you have lost trust, it is so hard to earn it back. just my thoughts here.
<< <i>for those who just cant sto diggin heres some auction numbers for ya.
120057217269
120056087468
120053005219
120053005078
120053004991
120053004852
120053004843
120048064170
120048063087
120048063145
and cds why dont you send your packs in for grading and stick them up your you know what when them come back authentic you started this witch hunt and you just cant let it go. you need help man >>
I apologize to the rest of the board members, but ...
F YOU GARY. Not once have I heard anything that remotely resembles an apology or remorse. Instead, we get piss and vinegar from you. Does the fact that you're ruined dozens of relationships with people you once referred to as "friends" mean anything to you? If we're going to begin creating a list of people who "need help" than I'm guessing you're first on the list.
You know what people do when they get caught/accused of committing a crime they know they did? They offer up a lesser offense in an attempt to convince the accusers that they can be trusted. "I'll admit that I did X but I didn't do Y." It's a way of bargaining their way out of a more serious conviction.
Arthur
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Steve
It may be irrelavant to you, and me and the guy next door. The thing is it is relavant to those that put up the dough.
IMO
Steve >>
I realize that but I think it distracts from the real questions about authenticity, fraud and quality of goods sold. The price paid seems to be secondary (since no one complained about paying it) to the more important question of what you got for that price. >>
I understand where you are coming from but that's not the point.
We are supposed to take his word those packs came from BBCE. People paid the agreed upon price because they were under the assumption the boxes would be purchased from BBCE from his current inventory. Gary very well could have purchased material from BBCE in the past, but how do you KNOW the packs distributed were in fact from Steve?
Considering his credibility is shot, do you still take his word for it? >>
No, absolutely not. I have not nor will not ever buy anything from this scumbag. I really do understand that point everyone is saying about false pretenses. I just want the discussion to get back on the pointed questions that junkies is conveniently choosing not to answer. You alluded to this as well: regardless whether the packs were marked up or not, what were the sources for every one of them. There are still a lot of questions regarding this that needs to be answered.
if he made a little extra $$$ for legwork, then so be it.
nobody has found resealed anything, so that is very disputable.
Looking back, I think Gary probably simply wishes he had been forthright about making extra $$ for legwork, but that is usually understandable and implied in doing the legwork?
I think Gary was dishonest, and that is pretty absurd, but i think we should leave the guy alone. He has offered refunds to perspective people that wanted and closed his e-bay store. Anything else is pure evil satisfaction from us against Gary, i think you all have proved a point.
Julen
RIP GURU
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Gary's New story:
The football rips is the only rip where all the boxes did not come from bbce. Why because when I placed the order he was out of 78 and we all new he didn’t have 77 or 80 the 80 I gor from Pittsburgh sprots whole sale the 77 from a reutable dealer I am personal friends with who gave me a great deal and the 78 yes came off of ebay when all other sources were exhausted. And I even paid more for the 78 box then was figured into the rip.
The only reason I got involved in this is because I thought the boxes were coming from BBCE and/or DACW. Now he admits that three of the boxes came from other sources (including a "reputable" dealer that he is "personal friends with" - that certainly inspires confidence). He has also NEVER told us where the 84 box in this rip (much less the alleged 84 case) came from. Therefore, by his own admission, 25% of his supply was not as advertised (i.e., fraudulent).
With his admission, I believe this is now actionable.
<< <i>I just went through and looked at BBC Exchange's Ended E-bay auctions from August till the end of the year, I Did NOT see an Fmmench anywhere in the completed auctions. IF someone else wants to look be my guest. >>
TB
One thing for sure - people can contact BBCEx on monday and see if they were purchased.
My belief? No one should exploit a profit from people here without their DIRECT consent...Ever.
mike
<< <i>i think he is telling the truth.
if he made a little extra $$$ for legwork, then so be it.
nobody has found resealed anything, so that is very disputable.
Looking back, I think Gary probably simply wishes he had been forthright about making extra $$ for legwork, but that is usually understandable and implied in doing the legwork?
I think Gary was dishonest, and that is pretty absurd, but i think we should leave the guy alone. He has offered refunds to perspective people that wanted and closed his e-bay store. Anything else is pure evil satisfaction from us against Gary, i think you all have proved a point.
Julen >>
Julen, I agree with some of what you're saying. I made some initial observations at the bery beginning of all of this and have left it alone for some time now. The only reason I am chiming in now is to have my voice heard as a member of this forum that no longer wishes to see Gary around.
Arthur
<< <i>stown i dont care what you believe I have come clean and really dont care what you or anyone else belives anymore. I feel beeter now that the truth is out there i fell better and can watch guys like you just keep up with the conspiracy theories because no matter what i say you will come up with something else because you want to believe in something so bad. stown are you this passionat about your collection >>
Then why don't you answer f@$%!#! answer the specific questions about some of the boxes and charity?
The only thing I would be working on now is not trying to sleaze your way out of this but to find a way to refund the monies.
Insted of saying , " guys I lied to you, I'm sorry , here's what I really did" , you really are asking alot from the people of this forum. Were you really hoping that they would have believed your first set of lies. Isn't that what you offered up? The guys on this forum , I wish I knew better , as for the most part, they are smart , funny, helpful, the type of friends I wish were in my life .You purposely lied to them .Some went to bat REAL bad for you, which only made them look bad.
You seem like the type of person that would tell a loved one "IF YOU LOVE ME , YOU"LL LET ME LIE TO YOU AND BELIEVE IT ". I see this type more than I care to see. You have had much time and many chances to come clean and in my opinion, you only offered up more of the same type of crap , that you probably have been doing most of your life.
I can't believe your nose isn't a foot long since Friday. Goodbye, Sonny
<< <i>stown i dont care what you believe I have come clean and really dont care what you or anyone else belives anymore. I feel beeter now that the truth is out there i fell better and can watch guys like you just keep up with the conspiracy theories because no matter what i say you will come up with something else because you want to believe in something so bad. stown are you this passionat about your collection >>
If you were honest upfront, this would have never happened. In fact, everyone probably wouldn't have minded off-setting a little for you to do the leg work.
Instead, you meliciously deceived fellow board members for money.
You whined and cried how people were allegedly accusing you of making some on the side, when in fact, it was what you were doing.
You lied and lied and lied and lied... What's the truth? Unfortuantely, we will never know, only you will. Thank Jebus you didn't pull off you feeble attempt at a grand slam with the '84 case break. Greedy little turd.
I honestly hope that some day you will come clean 100% for everything. Maybe, just maybe, people will start to forgive what you did and were trying to do.
Until then, pi$$ off.
you are a pompous jack -ss and you sold your name for a few dollars.
i hope you believe you got a good deal by lieing to others for what it cost your repuatation. it appears that your ebay store is heading for the hills how does that work for you financially? are you so PETTY that making a few bucks without telling people was worth it to you? good God man, is that what you laid awake a night thinking, there a bunch of fish on the PSA board and here is how i can squirrel a some money out of them with something less than i proposed.
do people deserve a little extra for organizing? maybe--that is a debateable point. no one held a gun to your head to do this, so getting a kickback is not a given.
people get into heated words with others on this board daily and while some people may want to wring a few necks (my neck included) 99%+ are welcomed back for their diverse opinions. however you have been to go far far away. even as nuts as rich was he was never told that no one wanted him around. i remember a couple of post that xanadu and i had, but his trailer is never so true.
i don't think i am a victim of your DECEIT, but that makes me think no higher of you. every few hours more and more stories trickle out from you about what really happened. i guess you think that maybe i will tell them this and all will be well. at this point other than a total refund you have no leg to stand on. regardless if most packs were clean people have a perception of you as a thief. A THIEF-I'll say it AGAIN A THIEF. How does that sound?
I cannot tell BBCE how to run their business, but you would be person non grata if I were Mr. Hart. If I were him even having my name remotely associated with you in any manner would make me ill.
<< <i>stown i dont care what you believe I have come clean and really dont care what you or anyone else belives anymore. I feel beeter now that the truth is out there i fell better and can watch guys like you just keep up with the conspiracy theories because no matter what i say you will come up with something else because you want to believe in something so bad. stown are you this passionat about your collection >>
Gary
I think another shower is necessary something still stinks , you still have some more unanswered guestions that you have been dodging but i must admit the confession about making a profit has deflected some of the other questions about the packs wrappers and commons you were buying on ebay
You must be kidding, right?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Using "old" but untampered boxes from a previous rip.
Profitting off the camraderie and goodwill of trusting board members.
Find this guy and nail him to a cross.
84 topps FB???????
86 Topps BK box?????????
Cards for Kids?????????
What ever the deal is with the 84 Topps FB, the 86 Topps BK and the cards for kids most be pretty bad since he flat out refuses to answer those questions.
I have participated in 4 rips that you put together. If I would have known that the stuff I was receiving was coming from your inventory I would not have participated. You also have to know that most wouldn't have.
You are a liar and a thief You lied about making money on the rips because you knew it was wrong. You are a criminal and I hope your business suffers for it.
My daughter was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes at the age of 2 (2003). My son was diagnosed with Type 1 when he was 17 on December 31, 2009. We were stunned that another child of ours had been diagnosed. Please, if you don't have a favorite charity, consider giving to the JDRF (Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation)
JDRF Donation
Maybe you guys can beat this dead horse some more....I recall a few people rippin' me for my comments about not buying into these 'rips".
Thank God, i didn't get screwed.
<< <i>Again he runs away instead of answering the questions.
84 topps FB???????
86 Topps BK box?????????
Cards for Kids?????????
What ever the deal is with the 84 Topps FB, the 86 Topps BK and the cards for kids most be pretty bad since he flat out refuses to answer those questions.
I have participated in 4 rips that you put together. If I would have known that the stuff I was receiving was coming from your inventory I would not have participated. You also have to know that most wouldn't have.
You are a liar and a thief You lied about making money on the rips because you knew it was wrong. You are a criminal and I hope your business suffers for it. >>
And these well made points were what I was getting at. Sorry for the diversion about profits.
<< <i>i think he is telling the truth.
if he made a little extra $$$ for legwork, then so be it.
nobody has found resealed anything, so that is very disputable.
Looking back, I think Gary probably simply wishes he had been forthright about making extra $$ for legwork, but that is usually understandable and implied in doing the legwork?
I think Gary was dishonest, and that is pretty absurd, but i think we should leave the guy alone. He has offered refunds to perspective people that wanted and closed his e-bay store. Anything else is pure evil satisfaction from us against Gary, i think you all have proved a point.
Julen >>
Julen
This is not entirely true.
I saw a pack that was posted that looks really, really bad.
Plus, we got input from Gemint - who's an incredibly reliable, informed and honest individual state with conviction that his packs were bad - he even posted his PMs to Gary.
So, with all due respect, this is still not a simple - "I made a profit - so what - you got yours - I got mine" type thing.
I do appreciate honesty and Gary coming forth - but everything is in the presentation.
This one is very bad IMO.
mike
<< <i>sure gumby fan ill dig them out now. but if someone does the math i won the 87 fleer wrappers march 1st the day the packs were sent out so obviously i havent even recieved those wrappers yet but of coursethat does not matter >>
Here is what's pissing me off. What the @%#$! would a dealer of unopened wax boxes/packs be buying wax wrappers????
<< <i>stown i dont care what you believe I have come clean and really dont care what you or anyone else belives anymore. I feel beeter now that the truth is out there i fell better and can watch guys like you just keep up with the conspiracy theories because no matter what i say you will come up with something else because you want to believe in something so bad. stown are you this passionat about your collection >>
Gary
Are you talking to me? We have a Stown on this board.
mike