The reverse shows the same shadowing on the Legends. I think the coin is OK but I cannot vouch 100% for the way the vibrant blue lays on the central reverse. Stunning coin.
I would be afraid of this coin. It has the colors on the obverse made from the tone kits that used to be sold (or still are) on Ebay. The burgandy color below the 1 and 8 seem to be in the wrong place and make me think it was AT'd. The reverse doesn't give me a warm feeling either.
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This is one series I've avoided due to grading issues re soft-strike vs. wear on the high points due to open collar striking. From the apparent luster breaks on the high points of the reverse, I'd guess it's in the AU 55 range.
I don't have a problem with the reverse, nor the color below the date. However, the large swath of magenta in the center of the obverse scares me. I'm no expert on this, but every silver coin I've seen with this color (a caveat, I don't collect Morgans) has been AT. Mark said it more tactfully than I can. From the image, to me, the magenta color doesn't seem to be imbedded into the coin.
I have some coins that have Wayte Raymond toning & this Half does not have that look at all. I'd like to see the coin in person to check for many small hairlines, etc., as EVP has mentioned. Without slamming you or the coin, I think you will have a problem re the majors slabbing it due to the "market acceptability" issue.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
no updates yet. Have not had a order to send in to NGC so this one will wait until I have others ready to go for grading. Luster is there and about average for a AU55 coin.
You gonna be at Central States? If so it will be there so you can judge for yourself.
Nope won't be at Central States. Please send it with somebody to the Vegas show May 20.
I'd love to check it out. Reason I asked about luster is that's what is important with these. Can't really see luster from your image. How bout hairlines from cleaning, have you tilted it every which way checking for an old cleaning?
Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
didn't read any except the first handfull of posts, but that coin is doctored all the way, no question about it. i could duplicate that look consistently, & i'm not even a very good coin doctor.
jbsteven's coin has some evidence that it is a solid NT coins. The big one for me is it's classic "pull away" toning at the date and some other devices. That's impossible to produce in a short time frame. Just my opinion, but I will say it's a beautiful, naturally toned coin.
You are kidding right. This coin is the perfect example of the kind of coins that are so eye appealing that it screams AT but yet will certify and have great characteristics that can be pointed to as natural. These types of toned coins are good for the hobby and are the bread and butter of the auction houses catalogs but they are not as natural as you think. Two points come to mind. 1)Its amazing how the owner of a coin always looks at the glass half full and others as half empty. and 2) uncovering the true artists who help coins like this along would cause confidence in the whole market to shudder and would deprive the hpbby of some of the most beautiful coins. If the posse goes after these folks then they are really going to be muddling with the status quo which is not smart when the market is so hot.
One note here. I am not talking about some guy with some sulphur and a torch, I am talking about serious sophisticated and incredibly detailed, time consuming work done by experts. Where it might take months even years for some of the coins to age gracefully to become just natural enough to pass but yet candy to the eye. If you doubt me then you are fooling yourself. I have no agenda other than provoking thought and questioning the actions of the people who are players which I am not. I only have the knowledge and do not benefit from anything I say.
The posse is really nothing more than the industry making sure that the confidence of the buyers does not falter. What better way to protect ones interests than to form a group to go after some real idiots who are hurting the hobby but are really not a problem for the experienced. The real artisans are left to due their thing while the sellers make money, the collectors are happy to own a pretty coin. more nice coins means lower prices or if not lower prices then the addition of more nice coins allows the market to expand and spread its share of nice coins to more collectors. It is a win-win-win-win situation. PLus if this was not going on then what would forums like this have to spice up the newbie questions that are repeated every few weeks or months.
Ignore me, laugh, whatever, but just remember that if you like the coin and its appealing to your senses then tell everyone else to bugger off. If people would just let this whole thing go then it would be a nicer hobby. Sowhat if some idiot is baking coins, they are his coins and he can do whatever. Just let it go, the market will grow wise, there is no need to pretend to be doing something when the real doctors are what doctors do...they help people not hurt them. It just cracks me up to see these big sellers of toned coins who get more and more of the most amazing coins, well folks I dont care who slabbed them or who says they are all natural because I am telling you that while some clearly are natural there are the vast majority of the incredibly amazing ones had help and by help I mean that of a DaVinci or a Matese not some dingaling baking Morgans in a Potato or one of the other lamebrain concoctions. There is a science to the toning and with time, various controlled environments and additives the process of album toning can be sped up by many times, then the fine introduction of various substances into that evnonment or onto the coin itslelf at certain times in the process can create the natural looking and yet so beautiful to the eye. Mother nature does it better but the problem is that only a minute number of toned coins have the eye appeal. This is where the help comes in. Like the careful and intricate process of producing a bottle of fine wine so goes the harvesting of coins to fuel the growth of this fantastic hobby.
Again, you doubt this then look around the coin business and if you can't see who the sucker is then its you.
Doctoroftone: We've heard these types of comments before, although not quite so eloquently stated. Whether your remarks are based on conjecture or experience isn't clear, although the inference from your forum name is less ambiguous.
But, the proof is in the pudding: please show us some examples of monster toned coins in top flight company slabs which you know to have been assisted in the toning process by yourself or by other coin doctors. Absent such evidence, your arguments hold only as much weight as the opinion of any other forum member.
Now why would I do that? My whole point is that its being done, who cares, the coins are pretty. The last thing I or anybody wants is to undermine the current market strengths. I am just saying there is nothing wrong with a little help to make mother nature more efficient. Beekeeping is a a good example or Trout Farms are another, or a Hothouse, if a orchidd was grown in a hothouse is it artificial versus it being totally naturally grown in the wild.
So I present a slab that I know was helped along, how can I prove it and what good would it do. I unlike others on here don't justify my life based on how much I can prove I am right and others are wrong. It seems that by doing what you ask nothing good would come of it. Only more of the same back and forth by those who think they know all and are always right. A couple guys on here think they are gods gift to the coin industry. Give me a break!
It cracks me up to see JB all over some other guys toned coin but then when its his, well then it has the detail and characteristics of an NT coin. And the others now pick it apart. Do you ever see me put up a coin of mine and do the song and dance. My only issue to all here is just think and act like boastful, know it all, sarcastic, self-rightous elitists. I am wrong sometimes and the better for it but I am just telling you what I know and not what I have done. I have seen things.
I've seen some things also in the many years that I've been collecting, and before I collected walkers I collected mint state Buffalo's and there is, (or was), a guy in the Chicago area that could take just about any Nickel coinage that you gave him and get it in a PCGS, or NGC holder with some of the most gorgeous colors you could ask for.... This is fact not fiction, and I would assume that many if not most of the better known dealers here on the boards know exactly who I'm speaking of.... The guy was, or is an artist! I don't know for sure if he is still practicing his art, but if he is he's got to be one of the best in the business!
BTW....... At the time I knew him he didn't have a clue how to work with anything but Nickel coinage.
<< <i>It cracks me up to see JB all over some other guys toned coin but then when its his, well then it has the detail and characteristics of an NT coin >>
DOT
Do you not see the NT characteristics of the bust half I posted? This coin was bought from Bob Cambell and I assure you many here will agree he is a toning expert.
I agree I will give my opinion of someone elses toned coins as being AT or NT if I think it is. Digital pictures are difficult to judge AT from NT. The bust I posted on this thread I own and can see it in person so yes, I can make a educated decision to wheter it is NT or AT.
Doctoroftone: Your unwillingness or inability to share with us even a single example to support your thesis substantially weakens your argument. Nor is it surprising. We've heard these rationalizations for not providing evidence of such contentions many times before. Attempting to cast aspersions about well respected members of this forum appears to be a rather weak and tawdry diversionary tactic to avoid presenting hard facts.
Now, I'm not saying that without question there aren't significant numbers of AT coins in top flight holders. Frankly, my judgment from 17 years of experience is that there aren't. You seem to imply that AT coins in PCGS and NGC holders are a much more common occurrence than is generally realized. Yet, you refuse or cannot provide even a single example. Thus, while your observations are both interesting and worth noting, I can only conclude at this point that your generalizations are speculative and perhaps based on limited sample information.
Just for the record I looked at your bust half here and although I am by know means an expert on bust halves, but know something of toned coins, it looks natural to me.
<< <i>jbsteven's coin has some evidence that it is a solid NT coins. The big one for me is it's classic "pull away" toning at the date and some other devices. That's impossible to produce in a short time frame. >>
For the record, this is not true. I'm not aware that it can be done overnight, but definitely in months.
As we have seen and some still deny- the slab DOES NOT mean the coin is naturally toned. Those who say it's in XYZ plastic so that is good enough for me totally amaze me.....
I set up at the same table with JB the day that he bought that coin in Portland at the ANA in March.
In hand, the coin is wild to say the least.
I personally cant think of any way that a bust half can tone that way.
The pull away toning is difficult to reproduce, but I have heard that some experts can do it.
JB swears by it however, but a coin doctor in this thread says it aint so...
Boiler was there also, as was Rick Kay. They might weigh in. Bob Campbell is a recognized toning expert however, so his word does carry some weight as well. Thus is the crux of the matter with AT/NT determination...and like the world we live in, rationalization can be such a convincing force.
I bought this one raw the same day that JB bought his....and for the record, he thought that mine was AT, and his was NT.
John
Edited to add that mine slabbed on the first try to NGC...and crossed on the first try to PCGS. Plastic isnt a guarantee of NT, but it is a method of defense. JB hasnt submitted so we wont know how fast it will/wont slab. Why not submit JB? Also, I would be remiss if I didnt mention that I tried to buy the coin for my set when I was in full swing...but I wanted some protection from the services given that I knew what JB paid for it...and wanted out of it.
I only buy encapsulated coins for my collection. If this coin were encapsulated by one of the major grading services, I still would NOT buy it because of the AT.
After more than two years of discussing this coin, why is it still raw, and not in a PCGS/NGC holder? My money is on PCGS bagging this one upon a quick glance.
I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
<< <i>You are kidding right. This coin is the perfect example of the kind of coins that are so eye appealing that it screams AT but yet will certify and have great characteristics that can be pointed to as natural. These types of toned coins are good for the hobby and are the bread and butter of the auction houses catalogs but they are not as natural as you think. Two points come to mind. 1)Its amazing how the owner of a coin always looks at the glass half full and others as half empty. and 2) uncovering the true artists who help coins like this along would cause confidence in the whole market to shudder and would deprive the hpbby of some of the most beautiful coins. If the posse goes after these folks then they are really going to be muddling with the status quo which is not smart when the market is so hot.
One note here. I am not talking about some guy with some sulphur and a torch, I am talking about serious sophisticated and incredibly detailed, time consuming work done by experts. Where it might take months even years for some of the coins to age gracefully to become just natural enough to pass but yet candy to the eye. If you doubt me then you are fooling yourself. I have no agenda other than provoking thought and questioning the actions of the people who are players which I am not. I only have the knowledge and do not benefit from anything I say.
The posse is really nothing more than the industry making sure that the confidence of the buyers does not falter. What better way to protect ones interests than to form a group to go after some real idiots who are hurting the hobby but are really not a problem for the experienced. The real artisans are left to due their thing while the sellers make money, the collectors are happy to own a pretty coin. more nice coins means lower prices or if not lower prices then the addition of more nice coins allows the market to expand and spread its share of nice coins to more collectors. It is a win-win-win-win situation. PLus if this was not going on then what would forums like this have to spice up the newbie questions that are repeated every few weeks or months.
Ignore me, laugh, whatever, but just remember that if you like the coin and its appealing to your senses then tell everyone else to bugger off. If people would just let this whole thing go then it would be a nicer hobby. Sowhat if some idiot is baking coins, they are his coins and he can do whatever. Just let it go, the market will grow wise, there is no need to pretend to be doing something when the real doctors are what doctors do...they help people not hurt them. It just cracks me up to see these big sellers of toned coins who get more and more of the most amazing coins, well folks I dont care who slabbed them or who says they are all natural because I am telling you that while some clearly are natural there are the vast majority of the incredibly amazing ones had help and by help I mean that of a DaVinci or a Matese not some dingaling baking Morgans in a Potato or one of the other lamebrain concoctions. There is a science to the toning and with time, various controlled environments and additives the process of album toning can be sped up by many times, then the fine introduction of various substances into that evnonment or onto the coin itslelf at certain times in the process can create the natural looking and yet so beautiful to the eye. Mother nature does it better but the problem is that only a minute number of toned coins have the eye appeal. This is where the help comes in. Like the careful and intricate process of producing a bottle of fine wine so goes the harvesting of coins to fuel the growth of this fantastic hobby.
Again, you doubt this then look around the coin business and if you can't see who the sucker is then its you. >>
aside from certain personal comments, doctor-of-tone is 746% correct
the whole "pull away" toning thing-ee is a bunch of b.s. that means absoutely zilch in determining accelerated tone or not
bob campbell is a toning expert - on MORGAN DOLLARS (& for that matter modern commems). but i do not consider him THE expert on toning of material like what's presented in this thread.
Comments
roadrunner
This is one series I've avoided due to grading issues re soft-strike vs. wear on the high points due to open collar striking. From the apparent luster breaks on the high points of the reverse, I'd guess it's in the AU 55 range.
I don't have a problem with the reverse, nor the color below the date. However, the large swath of magenta in the center of the obverse scares me. I'm no expert on this, but every silver coin I've seen with this color (a caveat, I don't collect Morgans) has been AT. Mark said it more tactfully than I can. From the image, to me, the magenta color doesn't seem to be imbedded into the coin.
I have some coins that have Wayte Raymond toning & this Half does not have that look at all.
I'd like to see the coin in person to check for many small hairlines, etc., as EVP has mentioned.
Without slamming you or the coin, I think you will have a problem re the majors slabbing it due to the "market acceptability" issue.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
You gonna be at Central States? If so it will be there so you can judge for yourself.
I'd love to check it out. Reason I asked about luster is that's what is important with these. Can't really see luster from your image. How bout hairlines from cleaning, have you tilted it every which way checking for an old cleaning?
would it slab? who knows? who really cares???
i just know that is definitely NOT natural tone.
K S
no cleaning or hairlines. good old honest circulation.
Dork
<< <i>i could duplicate that look consistently, & i'm not even a very good coin doctor. >>
Let's see you do it. Please post your results when finished.
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You are kidding right. This coin is the perfect example of the kind of coins that are so eye appealing that it screams AT but yet will certify and have great characteristics that can be pointed to as natural. These types of toned coins are good for the hobby and are the bread and butter of the auction houses catalogs but they are not as natural as you think. Two points come to mind. 1)Its amazing how the owner of a coin always looks at the glass half full and others as half empty. and 2) uncovering the true artists who help coins like this along would cause confidence in the whole market to shudder and would deprive the hpbby of some of the most beautiful coins. If the posse goes after these folks then they are really going to be muddling with the status quo which is not smart when the market is so hot.
One note here. I am not talking about some guy with some sulphur and a torch, I am talking about serious sophisticated and incredibly detailed, time consuming work done by experts. Where it might take months even years for some of the coins to age gracefully to become just natural enough to pass but yet candy to the eye. If you doubt me then you are fooling yourself. I have no agenda other than provoking thought and questioning the actions of the people who are players which I am not. I only have the knowledge and do not benefit from anything I say.
The posse is really nothing more than the industry making sure that the confidence of the buyers does not falter. What better way to protect ones interests than to form a group to go after some real idiots who are hurting the hobby but are really not a problem for the experienced. The real artisans are left to due their thing while the sellers make money, the collectors are happy to own a pretty coin. more nice coins means lower prices or if not lower prices then the addition of more nice coins allows the market to expand and spread its share of nice coins to more collectors. It is a win-win-win-win situation. PLus if this was not going on then what would forums like this have to spice up the newbie questions that are repeated every few weeks or months.
Ignore me, laugh, whatever, but just remember that if you like the coin and its appealing to your senses then tell everyone else to bugger off. If people would just let this whole thing go then it would be a nicer hobby. Sowhat if some idiot is baking coins, they are his coins and he can do whatever. Just let it go, the market will grow wise, there is no need to pretend to be doing something when the real doctors are what doctors do...they help people not hurt them. It just cracks me up to see these big sellers of toned coins who get more and more of the most amazing coins, well folks I dont care who slabbed them or who says they are all natural because I am telling you that while some clearly are natural there are the vast majority of the incredibly amazing ones had help and by help I mean that of a DaVinci or a Matese not some dingaling baking Morgans in a Potato or one of the other lamebrain concoctions. There is a science to the toning and with time, various controlled environments and additives the process of album toning can be sped up by many times, then the fine introduction of various substances into that evnonment or onto the coin itslelf at certain times in the process can create the natural looking and yet so beautiful to the eye. Mother nature does it better but the problem is that only a minute number of toned coins have the eye appeal. This is where the help comes in. Like the careful and intricate process of producing a bottle of fine wine so goes the harvesting of coins to fuel the growth of this fantastic hobby.
Again, you doubt this then look around the coin business and if you can't see who the sucker is then its you.
But, the proof is in the pudding: please show us some examples of monster toned coins in top flight company slabs which you know to have been assisted in the toning process by yourself or by other coin doctors. Absent such evidence, your arguments hold only as much weight as the opinion of any other forum member.
thank you for saying exactly what you did. I was waiting for someone to say EXACTLY what you said.
I await Doctoroftone's response.
<< <i>Ignore me, laugh, whatever >>
Ok.
Russ, NCNE
Now why would I do that? My whole point is that its being done, who cares, the coins are pretty. The last thing I or anybody wants is to undermine the current market strengths. I am just saying there is nothing wrong with a little help to make mother nature more efficient. Beekeeping is a a good example or Trout Farms are another, or a Hothouse, if a orchidd was grown in a hothouse is it artificial versus it being totally naturally grown in the wild.
So I present a slab that I know was helped along, how can I prove it and what good would it do. I unlike others on here don't justify my life based on how much I can prove I am right and others are wrong. It seems that by doing what you ask nothing good would come of it. Only more of the same back and forth by those who think they know all and are always right. A couple guys on here think they are gods gift to the coin industry. Give me a break!
I've seen some things also in the many years that I've been collecting, and before I collected walkers I collected mint state Buffalo's and there is, (or was), a guy in the Chicago area that could take just about any Nickel coinage that you gave him and get it in a PCGS, or NGC holder with some of the most gorgeous colors you could ask for.... This is fact not fiction, and I would assume that many if not most of the better known dealers here on the boards know exactly who I'm speaking of.... The guy was, or is an artist! I don't know for sure if he is still practicing his art, but if he is he's got to be one of the best in the business!
BTW....... At the time I knew him he didn't have a clue how to work with anything but Nickel coinage.
<< <i>It cracks me up to see JB all over some other guys toned coin but then when its his, well then it has the detail and characteristics of an NT coin >>
DOT
Do you not see the NT characteristics of the bust half I posted? This coin was bought from Bob Cambell and I assure you many here will agree he is a toning expert.
I agree I will give my opinion of someone elses toned coins as being AT or NT if I think it is. Digital pictures are difficult to judge AT from NT. The bust I posted on this thread I own and can see it in person so yes, I can make a educated decision to wheter it is NT or AT.
Now, I'm not saying that without question there aren't significant numbers of AT coins in top flight holders. Frankly, my judgment from 17 years of experience is that there aren't. You seem to imply that AT coins in PCGS and NGC holders are a much more common occurrence than is generally realized. Yet, you refuse or cannot provide even a single example. Thus, while your observations are both interesting and worth noting, I can only conclude at this point that your generalizations are speculative and perhaps based on limited sample information.
Just for the record I looked at your bust half here and although I am by know means an expert on bust halves, but know something of toned coins, it looks natural to me.
<< <i>I figure it will take at least 2-3 tries for PCGS/NGC to feel comfortable holdering it. >>
That is the sadest statement in this entire thread. Sad becuase it's probably true.
Slabbed or not won't really sway my opinion
-Daniel
-Aristotle
Dum loquimur fugerit invida aetas. Carpe diem quam minimum credula postero.
-Horace
<< <i>The posse is really nothing more than the industry making sure that the confidence of the buyers does not falter. >>
Say it ain't so!
<< <i>jbsteven's coin has some evidence that it is a solid NT coins. The big one for me is it's classic "pull away" toning at the date and some other devices. That's impossible to produce in a short time frame. >>
For the record, this is not true. I'm not aware that it can be done overnight, but definitely in months.
Nothing PCGS or NGC love to do more than slab an exteme example of unusual original toning that does not usually happen especially on bust halves.
K S
The Doctor of Tone sure had a way with words. And I believe a lot of them!
<< <i>JB Are you still dabbling in coins?? >>
nope. but have been thinking about taking them back up.
Probably accelerated toning, but what do I know?
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
<< <i>that coin is doctored to death
K S >>
Maybe not to death, but it sure is on life support...
Sorry , but I think that one is not the real deal.
In hand, the coin is wild to say the least.
I personally cant think of any way that a bust half can tone that way.
The pull away toning is difficult to reproduce, but I have heard that some experts can do it.
JB swears by it however, but a coin doctor in this thread says it aint so...
Boiler was there also, as was Rick Kay. They might weigh in. Bob Campbell is a recognized toning expert however, so his word does
carry some weight as well. Thus is the crux of the matter with AT/NT determination...and like the world we live in, rationalization can
be such a convincing force.
I bought this one raw the same day that JB bought his....and for the record, he thought that mine was AT, and his was NT.
John
Edited to add that mine slabbed on the first try to NGC...and crossed on the first try to PCGS. Plastic isnt a guarantee of NT, but it is a method of defense. JB hasnt submitted so we wont know how fast it will/wont slab. Why not submit JB? Also, I would be remiss if I didnt mention that I tried to buy the coin for my set when I was in full swing...but I wanted some protection from the services given that I knew what JB paid for it...and wanted out of it.
siliconvalleycoins.com
The 32 you posted is night and day different than the 21 in the OP.
I would think that the "blue" on both coins is an entirely different shade and it sits completely differently on the coin.
After more than two years of discussing this coin, why is it still raw, and not in a PCGS/NGC holder? My money is on PCGS bagging this one upon a quick glance.
<< <i>PCGS not NGC have not seen the coin. It is still in my Dansco type set right next to my computer. >>
The way I understand this quote, and if my memory is correct when I viewed this coin in person a couple years ago, Has NGC indeed seen this coin?
<< <i>You are kidding right. This coin is the perfect example of the kind of coins that are so eye appealing that it screams AT but yet will certify and have great characteristics that can be pointed to as natural. These types of toned coins are good for the hobby and are the bread and butter of the auction houses catalogs but they are not as natural as you think. Two points come to mind. 1)Its amazing how the owner of a coin always looks at the glass half full and others as half empty. and 2) uncovering the true artists who help coins like this along would cause confidence in the whole market to shudder and would deprive the hpbby of some of the most beautiful coins. If the posse goes after these folks then they are really going to be muddling with the status quo which is not smart when the market is so hot.
One note here. I am not talking about some guy with some sulphur and a torch, I am talking about serious sophisticated and incredibly detailed, time consuming work done by experts. Where it might take months even years for some of the coins to age gracefully to become just natural enough to pass but yet candy to the eye. If you doubt me then you are fooling yourself. I have no agenda other than provoking thought and questioning the actions of the people who are players which I am not. I only have the knowledge and do not benefit from anything I say.
The posse is really nothing more than the industry making sure that the confidence of the buyers does not falter. What better way to protect ones interests than to form a group to go after some real idiots who are hurting the hobby but are really not a problem for the experienced. The real artisans are left to due their thing while the sellers make money, the collectors are happy to own a pretty coin. more nice coins means lower prices or if not lower prices then the addition of more nice coins allows the market to expand and spread its share of nice coins to more collectors. It is a win-win-win-win situation. PLus if this was not going on then what would forums like this have to spice up the newbie questions that are repeated every few weeks or months.
Ignore me, laugh, whatever, but just remember that if you like the coin and its appealing to your senses then tell everyone else to bugger off. If people would just let this whole thing go then it would be a nicer hobby. Sowhat if some idiot is baking coins, they are his coins and he can do whatever. Just let it go, the market will grow wise, there is no need to pretend to be doing something when the real doctors are what doctors do...they help people not hurt them. It just cracks me up to see these big sellers of toned coins who get more and more of the most amazing coins, well folks I dont care who slabbed them or who says they are all natural because I am telling you that while some clearly are natural there are the vast majority of the incredibly amazing ones had help and by help I mean that of a DaVinci or a Matese not some dingaling baking Morgans in a Potato or one of the other lamebrain concoctions. There is a science to the toning and with time, various controlled environments and additives the process of album toning can be sped up by many times, then the fine introduction of various substances into that evnonment or onto the coin itslelf at certain times in the process can create the natural looking and yet so beautiful to the eye. Mother nature does it better but the problem is that only a minute number of toned coins have the eye appeal. This is where the help comes in. Like the careful and intricate process of producing a bottle of fine wine so goes the harvesting of coins to fuel the growth of this fantastic hobby.
Again, you doubt this then look around the coin business and if you can't see who the sucker is then its you. >>
aside from certain personal comments, doctor-of-tone is 746% correct
K S
bob campbell is a toning expert - on MORGAN DOLLARS (& for that matter modern commems). but i do not consider him THE expert on toning of material like what's presented in this thread.
K S