Raw 1799 Bust Dollar. Comments & grade opinions welcome.PCGS graded it F15

fivecents · September 26, 2005 5:52AM

Thanks to the dealer for allowing me two months to pay it off. It arrived today.

kryptonitecomics · September 26, 2005 5:54AM

Looks like a great coin.......I don't own a lot of Bust coinage...but it looks like a VF20/VF30 ish coin to me.....I love it

agentjim007 · September 26, 2005 5:55AM

I like it. obv looks vf and rev looks fine

ER · September 26, 2005 5:57AM

25, BB-161.
I'm sure it's been cleaned in the past.

Edited to say, I guess it's been lightly cleaned in the past.

mgoodm3 · September 26, 2005 6:01AM

Looks good. VF20.

fivecents · September 26, 2005 6:10AM

The reverse has a huge die crack at 9 o'clock running to the eagles beak. You can see it in the photo.

fivecents · September 26, 2005 11:17AM

This is NOT a twenty dollar counterfiet. It's the real deal.

Any other grade guesses?

Stuart · September 26, 2005 11:36AM

FiveCents: That's a very pretty Bust Dollar. I'll guess she grades VF...

Baley · September 26, 2005 11:56AM

Yah, VF20 with original-looking surfaces, nice coin.

Interesting die crack caused some strike weakness on the eagle's wings.

Gemini · September 26, 2005 1:49PM

Nice natural looking coin.

ER · September 26, 2005 2:12PM

My 2 favorite die cracks on the bust dollars, this one (BB-161) and the BB-168.

PonyExpress8 · September 26, 2005 2:25PM

Wow what a beauty. Love the die crack on the reverse and overall appearance. VF-30 is my guess.

DoctorPaper · September 26, 2005 3:45PM

Nice coin. Looks VF20/25 to me and original. I believe it is a BB161 (Bolender 11). It is one of the two 1799 "berryless" varieties, having no berries on the branch held in the eagle's talon. Bowers estimates 400-750 examples of this variety exist in VF to EF condition.

fivecents · September 26, 2005 8:37PM

doctorpaper.......Thanks, I didn't notice that the branch was berryless.

DoctorPaper · September 26, 2005 9:45PM

Paul: One other thing-take a look at the "third side" of your coin, the edge, since it's a raw coin. Occasionally, the edge lettering is screwed up on bust dollars (letters missing, words overlapping) which can add a little interest and value....

GaCoinGuy · September 26, 2005 9:54PM

I likes it. Nice color, and as stated, it has proly been cleaned at some point, but who cares, it's over 200 years old, circulated, and you can still see details. Would look good in my Dansco.

elwood · September 26, 2005 9:55PM

How much more enjoyable is it to hold a coin like that in your hand instead of having to look at it through a piece of plastic?
Plus you get to see the edge lettering, which is very cool on early coinage.

HTubbs · September 26, 2005 10:55PM

VF-30...nice coin!

fivecents · November 15, 2005 7:15AM

Man, I really thought it had a strong shot at VF20.....Ouch

poorguy · November 15, 2005 7:22AM

Whoa, that's too bad. Looks to have better detail than a 12.

Russ · November 15, 2005 7:23AM

You got stiffed™.

Russ, NCNE

Russ · November 15, 2005 7:25AM

<< Looks to have better detail than a 12. >>

Which is probably why they graded it 15.

Russ, NCNE

Hoot · November 15, 2005 7:27AM

Given your images, I'd say that PCGS undergraded the coin by one step. It's tough to make those judgements without the coin in-hand, however. Still, the coin has VF20 "meat" but since other factors play in the judgement of grading, I'd value whatever added comments you may have about the coin as you look at it critically in-hand. (Color and old hairlines may never show rightly in a photo, but are readily seen in-hand.) Someone mentioned the third side of the coin, and that's am important aspect of these pieces, as edge bumps play a significant role and can easily cause the loss of a grade. All-in-all, the coin in a 15 holder is not an insult, and it might be considered a PQ 15 and sell for VF money when you turn it, eventually. It can be harder to sell a PQ coin in any given grade, since most idiots don't pay attention to such things and only look at the holder. Hold forth, however, and be pleased that the coin is well protected for the time being. (Makes you want an F18 grade, eh?)

Hoot

ER · November 15, 2005 7:44AM

<< You got stiffed™.

Russ, NCNE >>

FoundingFather · November 15, 2005 8:01AM

Nice coin. It's cool that you can hold it, isn't it? That's one of the reasons I love colonial coin "artifacts" so much.

fivecents · November 15, 2005 9:15AM

Thanks Hoot, good point.

The same thing happened with an 1801 bust dollar my dealer has. We pegged it as VF20, he sent it to PCGS and it came back an F15.

Dismeguy · November 15, 2005 9:22AM

Does this coin even need to be in a holder? This bust dollar looks great raw. Don't understand why there is a need to have the professional services grade a nice circulated dollar coin like this.

BillJones · November 15, 2005 9:29AM

I'd grade that Bust Dollar as VF-30, and would be glad to offer it for sale. It is well above average. I has a nice original look to it.

One really has to grade this coin by the obverse and disregard the weakness in the wings on the reverse. That weakness is due to the large die break.

Fine-15? Yea, you got stiffed. That slab was one step above a body bag.

fivecents · November 15, 2005 9:30AM

<< Does this coin even need to be in a holder? >>

I prefer to have a coin like this in a holder. All it takes is one bit of mishandling and BAM, you have a rim ding or a scratch. It's a whole lot less stressful showing this coin to other people without worrying if they will drop it on the floor or not. Of course it is also easier calling it a VF without that pesky PCGS F15 label attached.

relayer · November 15, 2005 9:31AM

I think you own the best PCGS F15 there is!

FatMan · November 15, 2005 9:55AM

<< I think you own the best PCGS F15 there is! >>

Tonelover · November 15, 2005 9:58AM

You should have cleaned and scrubbed it up first, then you'd have gotten your VF. Just making that assumption based on the majority of coins I see on the market these days.

fivecents · November 15, 2005 10:01AM

<< I think you own the best PCGS F15 there is! >>

Thanks relayer. The down side to that is I paid VF money for it.

coinkat · November 15, 2005 10:09AM

nice coin. As much as there is a need for TPG, this coin has a powerful look that speaks for itself. F15 as a grade? Well, I'll buy this coina as an F15 ... at F15 money.

Ever wonder if the Charles II, James II, William III, Queen Anne, George I and II CROWNS are tougher to get that Bust dollars in EF and AU grades?

FoundingFather · November 15, 2005 10:29AM

What about keeping it in an airtight so you retain the option of handling if and when you want?

fivecents · November 15, 2005 10:38AM

Wouldn't an airtite hide the third side of the coin also.

BlindedByEgo · November 15, 2005 10:50AM

<< You should have cleaned and scrubbed it up first, then you'd have gotten your VF. Just making that assumption based on the majority of coins I see on the market these days. >>

And I have a belt sander that you can borrow if you want

Baley · November 15, 2005 2:05PM

I maintain that your coin is VF20.

So is this 1807 half that happens to be , coincidentally, certified by PCGS as F15 also

on the other hand, I've seen scrubbey dubby coins with maybe a bit more details hanging around in VF20 holders.

opinions vary..

fivecents · November 16, 2005 12:07AM

Thanks Baley.

I think PCGS is a little hard on draped bust coins. In the mean time I will keep this bust dollar in the F15 holder. As they say "buy the coin....not the holder".

Raw 1799 Bust Dollar. Comments &amp; grade opinions welcome.*PCGS graded it F15*

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