CURRENT PCGS POPS ON WISCONSIN EXTRA LEAF ERRORS

rlawsha · February 13, 2005 10:55PM

PCGS POPS AS OF 2/14/2005

2004-D WI 25C WI Extra Leaf Low
MS63-8
MS64-283
MS65-107
MS66-4

TOTAL-402

2004-D WI 25C WI Extra Leaf High
MS63-8
MS64-181
MS65-91
MS66-7

TOTAL-287

Steve27 · February 13, 2005 10:57PM

Unless you have the NGC and ANACS pops too, this is pretty meaningless.

rlawsha · February 13, 2005 11:03PM

<< Unless you have the NGC and ANACS pops too, this is pretty meaningless. >>

It's meaningful to a lot of people on this forum. I was asked to post these numbers by another forum member when I saw a big change. To call them meaningless is just silly.

Steve · February 13, 2005 11:08PM

With those kind of pop numbers already, this coin will never be investment material. Collectable, yes, for those who collect varieties for enjoyment. Unfortunately, people will pay big bucks NOW and later will be able to get these coins for pennies on the dollar. JMHO. Steve

TerrapinWill · February 13, 2005 11:12PM

I am fairly new to this, so could you explain why these numbers indicate to you that coin will be worth "pennies on the dollar"??

Stunner · February 13, 2005 11:20PM

I found the current PCGS population report to be quite interesting being as though it's the first I've seen on this type.

Weiss · February 13, 2005 11:40PM

NGC numbers would certainly be useful, but really useful numbers would be those for other *possibly* similarly weighted pieces, like the 1955 double die cent, the 1937 3-legged nickel. If the pops on these quarters are anything close to the pops on their more famous and established cousins, then these coins could very well be investment grade material. Especially given the number of collectors of state quarters.

ms70 · February 13, 2005 11:46PM

I appreciate the posting of the pop numbers. Unlike some experts we have here.

mhammerman · February 13, 2005 11:53PM

I recall hearing here, on other issues, that the money is made early on these highly speculative oddities and I think this is true. This is true of the '04 mint collectibles and it is especially true of gold...it goes up 2% and people are on it like a bad rash in the summertime. So lesson here seems to be get in early and get out.

Enjoy

notlogical · February 14, 2005 12:25AM

Thanks for the numbers!

KentuckyJ · February 14, 2005 12:32AM

Interesting numbers. I've been wondering how it looks at this early stage of the game. Thanks for the post

KJ

joeyuk · February 14, 2005 12:37AM

<< get in early and get out. >>

Perhaps if you are trying to flip them for profit.
If you collect then hopefully you got in early.

I don't know if it is fair to compare the pops. on this variety with others.
When 3 legged buffalos and 55 doubled dies came out third party grading
and e-bay were unheard of. A variety coming out now I think will have a
much higher percentage graded just for the attribution and liquidity.

dbldie55 · February 14, 2005 12:42AM

The logical comparison would be to the 1995 DD Cent. Pops are huge and prices fell from highs, but not as far as the pops would indicate. I still suspect you will be able to buy these much cheaper than they are selling for now in the future. (but I could be wrong, and if so, I just won't collect them)

Prethen · February 14, 2005 12:50AM

Any dealers care to say how much they would pay for one of these if they were offered? Personally, I'm not much into modern stuff and I'd be a bit nervous about handling any of these. I think their prices might appear great at this given moment but unless you have an immediate buyer I wouldn't want to hold onto one for too long.

INXS · February 14, 2005 12:50AM

<< Thanks for the numbers!

>>

Barry · February 14, 2005 1:07AM

Look at the bright side:

These coins are so new, they are the ONLY coins in the pop report with accurate numbers! If big price differentials develop between 65-66-(67-68), give it a few months and they'll be as corrupted as the rest of the pops.

flaminio · February 14, 2005 1:27AM

<< Unless you have the NGC and ANACS pops too, this is pretty meaningless. >>

Depends on the question. If the question was "What are the current PCGS pops for Wisconsin extra leaf errors?", then the post answers the question fully and precisely.

Hint: the question was inferred from the thread title.

Besides, what information would the NGC and ANACS pop numbers add? It still wouldn't account for the many thousands that exist out there unslabbed. If you're trying to glean a total population, the addition of two more services' numbers would be equally meaningless.

Steve · February 14, 2005 2:26AM

<< I am fairly new to this, so could you explain why these numbers indicate to you that coin will be worth "pennies on the dollar"?? >>

Terrapin Will,
The reason I feel this way is that these coins were discovered barely a month ago and already there are significant numbers slabbed by the grading services. The coins are out there, in big numbers, maybe higher than the 1995 doubled die Lincoln. The dealers are rushing to get them slabbed AND SOLD NOW! I guess State quarter collectors will need them for their collections, but if they are patient and wait a year or two, I am sure they can then get them at a very small fraction of the price they would have to pay today. Me, I don't have to worry. I am collecting the proof clad version ONLY. I have 30 now and in March I will have 35. Beautiful coins AND I get my brand new 2005 Lincoln cent DCAM absolutely FREE when I buy the clad proof set from the US Mint each year. I don't even have to pay the $75 they want now for the 2004 set cause I got mine at issue price last year.
Steve

DennisH · February 14, 2005 2:46AM

I agree with Steve... PCGS alone has already graded nearly 700 combined examples of the varieties in a very short period of time. IMO that's a lot, and the possibility that many more are yet to come is high.

pharmer · February 14, 2005 2:51AM

Well, we'll see. You say people can wait a year or two to put them in their sets, but sounds like you don't wait at all to get your proofs for your set. I bet everyone is the same and will do as you do, not as you say.

Slabbed sets have made their way onto ebay, Rick has a $1599 bidder on an NGC67 set. I've been looking for trends, but things seem to change daily, except that very few sets or singles with a BIN make it to the end.

19Lyds · February 14, 2005 2:56AM

Thanks for the numbers.

Plus, I do not understand why nearly every thread involving this coin has to turn into some type of slam! Whether it is an error or a variety is unimportant, that fact remains that its a coin that some people have a lot of interest in. So what? Let the man report the numbers like he was asked. After all, not all of us have access to the current pop reports and some people just want to know!

There, I feel better. I think!

pharmer · February 14, 2005 3:01AM

I think it has to do with the one definite trend that has developed, the one that's on this forum: those that have the coins think they will go up, and those that don't think they will go down and are no big deal.

Proofquarter · February 14, 2005 3:42AM

For every seller of a stock that thinks it will go down there is a buyer that thinks it will go up.

Russ · February 14, 2005 4:08AM

<< These coins are so new, they are the ONLY coins in the pop report with accurate numbers! >>

Russ, NCNE

EagleEye · February 14, 2005 8:09AM

I don't see where there should be a suprize here.

PCGS POPS AS OF 2/14/2005

2004-D WI 25C WI Extra Leaf Low
MS63-8
MS64-283
MS65-107
MS66-4

TOTAL-402

2004-D WI 25C WI Extra Leaf High
MS63-8
MS64-181
MS65-91
MS66-7

TOTAL-287

I've posted a revised estimated population of almost 10X these numbers. These will end up with populations close to the 1982 No P dime, not the 1955 DD cent. I think the collector "Value" (which is the eventual price for average BU coins) will be $500 per coin. A bit higher than the 1982 No P because its a State Quarter.

There will be wide price fluctuations. Prices seemed a bit lower today than Friday on ebay. The demand has not tapered off, but supplies are getting despersed. Many people who bought my sets put them right away on ebay and made a killing! The supply is getting wider so there will be glut of them on ebay. As soon as this glut is dispersed prices will rise again.

RGL · February 14, 2005 8:17AM

Hmmmm ... don't know about the comparison with the 1982 No-P Roosevelt. There are less than 1,600 in the PCGS pop some 23 years later and the Wisconsin appears well on pace to exceed that number ... (Vested interest disclosed: I picked a No-P out of pocket change in 1982 ... graded AU-58, not bad for a face value investment.)

GAT · February 14, 2005 9:31AM

Just got home from visiting my Bank of America branch in Northern San Diego County. The teller told me all the tellers know about these quarters and are searching every roll and quarter they receive. The chance of any customer finding one is next to nil.

Steve · February 14, 2005 12:05PM

<< 

I've posted a revised estimated population of almost 10X these numbers. These will end up with populations close to the 1982 No P dime, not the 1955 DD cent. I think the collector "Value" (which is the eventual price for average BU coins) will be $500 per coin. A bit higher than the 1982 No P because its a State Quarter.

There will be wide price fluctuations. Prices seemed a bit lower today than Friday on ebay. The demand has not tapered off, but supplies are getting despersed. Many people who bought my sets put them right away on ebay and made a killing! The supply is getting wider so there will be glut of them on ebay. As soon as this glut is dispersed prices will rise again. >>

Rick Snow,
I have a great respect for you and your knowledge and experience with Indian cents and other numismatic items. Your comments about the Wisconsin quarter varieties seem to suggest that some dealers and others have in fact "cornered the market" on these coins, submitted all of them to the major grading services, and are now waiting for all of them to be graded and then sold to collectors. Am I correct in my assumptions?

It is hard for me to understand how all these coins have suddenly been discovered, are quickly getting slabbed, and as you say will have populations comparable to the 1982 no p dime. Has it already been determined the extent that these coins have been distributed thru the federal system? I do believe that over 100 million of the Wisconsin quarters were made. Am I wrong? At this stage, how do we know approximately how many of the varieties there are and more particularly, how can we estimate how many of these varieties will get slabbed?

I'd appreciate any clarification you can make on this. Thanks,
Steve

Coin Finder · February 14, 2005 12:05PM

PCGS/NGC pops for the 55 DD combined in all grades are:

3613 (This does not include crack outs).

PCGS/NGC pops for the 1982 No P dime in all grades are:

1702

Wisonsin Leaf total pops in all grades/ all varieties for PCGS and not NGC because these are not published yet are:

689

Tbig

vagal · February 14, 2005 11:55PM

Thanks! Please keep posting these.

Coin Finder · February 15, 2005 3:28AM

Combined Pops on the 1995 DD in all grades for both NGC and PCGS is:

14,221

Tbig

pharmer · February 15, 2005 3:34AM

Thanks, Tbig. All these numbers are illuminating. The more info there is, the more interesting this developing story becomes.

Coin Finder · February 15, 2005 4:25AM

Here is a break down of known pops for PCGS/NGC combining all the favorite varieties as of this date:

PCGS/NGC pops for the 55 DD combined in all grades are:

3613 (This does not include crack outs).

PCGS/NGC pops for the 1982 No P dime in all grades are:

1702

Combined Pops on the 1995 DD in all grades for both NGC and PCGS is:

14,221

Combined PCGS/NGC Pops on the 1922 NO D Strong Reverse:

2355

Combined PCGs/NGC Pops on the 1937 D 3 legged Buff:

6297

Wisonsin Leaf total pops in all grades/ all varieties for PCGS and not NGC because these are not published yet are:

689

TBIG

relayer · February 15, 2005 4:52AM

That seems like a ton of them - why are people selling them for $1,000

sonofagunk · February 16, 2005 12:11AM

I think the numbers are inflated by breakouts and resubmits.

pharmer · February 16, 2005 12:20AM

<< That seems like a ton of them - why are people selling them for $1,000

>>

Let's see, 3-leg Buffs 6297, extra leafs 689. So, you mean it seems like almost 10 tons of 3-leg buffs. Why are people selling them for thousands of dollars?

kieferscoins · February 16, 2005 12:30AM

<< I think the numbers are inflated by breakouts and resubmits. >>

Cameron Kiefer

dbldie55 · February 16, 2005 12:33AM

An economy submission would not even be graded yet. It sure seems relavant to compare the pops of this coin to others

windwhispersintrees · February 16, 2005 12:41AM

Many of the new collectors created by the state quarter program are simply filling the 5 slots per year in their albums, and there aren't any slots for WI errors. Many new collectors will never get into the hobby beyond filling slots and that will be the end of it.

However, there appears to be good demand from already established coin collectors.
Perhaps someone who follows errors can answer this: Over decades, is it true that the majority of errors really don't appreciate much in price? As an investment, unless one gets them early and cheap, errors are not generally a good investment?

pharmer · February 16, 2005 12:52AM

I just got the info from Dansco that I requested about their product line. Haven't opened it, but when I do I think I will call or email them to see what they are thinking about a slot for something obscure that will be listed in Redbook, has pcgs and ngc numbers, and surely will be in cherrypickers 4th ed 2nd vol due out in 2025.

dbldie55 · February 16, 2005 1:08AM

<< I just got the info from Dansco that I requested about their product line. Haven't opened it, but when I do I think I will call or email them to see what they are thinking about a slot for something obscure that will be listed in Redbook, has pcgs and ngc numbers, and surely will be in cherrypickers 4th ed 2nd vol due out in 2025. >>

You mean like a place for the 1995 DD Cent that has been out for almost 10 years. Would be nice to have a place for it, but nothing so far.

BAJJERFAN · February 16, 2005 1:09AM

I would think that these leaf errors would be a desireable item for residents of the BAJJER state.

Steve · February 16, 2005 1:17AM

I am a collector of Lincoln cents. When the 1990 no S proof cent was discovered in August of 1990 I watched the early excitement from the sideline. Of course, the marketers couldn't publicize the coin much because it just wasn't available. Later, in 1993 I bought the coin for $1,250 and today it is a $5k+ coin. This Wisconsin quarter error is going to be readily available. If so many have been already slabbed in such a short time, doesn't that tell you how many are out there? If you are willing to spend $50 to $100 to get an example of this coin, I really think it would be wise to wait a year or two and you will surely be able to get one for that amount of money. Today, the 1995 Lincoln cent doubled die can be had SLABBED by PCGS at MS67 for $75. An MS65 example can be gotten much cheaper.

Bottom line. If you want one for your collection now, go ahead and overspend if it makes you happy. If you are buying one for a long term investment, I believe you will find this coin is a big time loser. JMHO. Steve

pharmer · February 16, 2005 1:20AM

You bought a no-s for $1250 and it's worth 5k and that's a reason to wait?

ellewood · February 16, 2005 1:51AM

Steve -

This is kind of off topic...but I was curious to hear why you are only collecting the CLAD proof SQ's and not the SILVER proof SQ's? I just finished obtaining both clad and silvers in PR69DCAM....and it's amazing how far down in the registry I am (I think I'm tied for 23rd or something like that). Getting into the 70DCAMS is the only way to move up now...and I don't ever see myself going down that road. I am collecting this set PURELY because I like the variety of the quarters....and I especially enjoy the unique flag slabs for each state.

Like you, Lincolns are the favorite for me. I would love to see a change up in the next few years. Keep the obverse...but maybe change the reverse......

EagleEye · February 16, 2005 9:26AM

Rick Snow,
I have a great respect for you and your knowledge and experience with Indian cents and other numismatic items. Your comments about the Wisconsin quarter varieties seem to suggest that some dealers and others have in fact "cornered the market" on these coins, submitted all of them to the major grading services, and are now waiting for all of them to be graded and then sold to collectors. Am I correct in my assumptions?

It is hard for me to understand how all these coins have suddenly been discovered, are quickly getting slabbed, and as you say will have populations comparable to the 1982 no p dime. Has it already been determined the extent that these coins have been distributed thru the federal system? I do believe that over 100 million of the Wisconsin quarters were made. Am I wrong? At this stage, how do we know approximately how many of the varieties there are and more particularly, how can we estimate how many of these varieties will get slabbed?

Steve, first you have to recognize that since FUN I have been asking everyone who calls, every dealer and anyone with any knowledge about these "How many did you get?" I think I have uniquely the best idea of how many are out there. It's always a guess, but an educated one. Any number thrown out there by people in Michigan, California, or where ever are just shooting wind.

If you look at this on a coin per die basis, it stands to reason that there were more 1982 No p dimes struck than WI quarters just based on average die life. Not every 1982 No p dime is certified, and not every WI quarter will be certified. Denver struck 225 Million WI Quarters, btw. Most of the PCGS pieces submitted are from my submissions and the two other Tucson dealers. I'm out. I have no more coming in, no more at either NGC or PCGS. The other dealers are selling out and have only small submissions still in.

I had what I called a set of "Wow rolls" These were very flashy. Most graded MS-64 and MS-65. Not one MS-66. I sold my PCGS MS66's for under $700 each. Those should be $1,500 coins now based on my lack of additional pieces. Forget about getting a MS67. I think a MS-67 PCGS would fetch $2,500 - $5,000 if one got graded.

Wisonsin Leaf total pops in all grades/ all varieties for PCGS and not NGC because these are not published yet are:

689

TBIG

Please break them down into seperate varieties. They are not one variety.

joeyuk · February 16, 2005 10:52AM

402 low leaf
287 high leaf

EagleEye · February 17, 2005 1:24AM

Thanks.

rlawsha · February 22, 2005 4:52AM

Not much difference in the pops this week, only 5 coins....

WI Extra Leaf Low
MS63-8
MS64-284
MS65-109
MS6-65
MS67-1
Total Low 407

WI Extra Leaf High
MS63-8
MS64-181
MS65-91
MS66-7
Total High 287

Grand Total = 694

CURRENT PCGS POPS ON WISCONSIN EXTRA LEAF ERRORS

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