<< <i>Don't do it!! You should get every cent of your money back and insist on it!!! He is a scammer and should not get away with taking ANY of your money. >>
If I buy a coin on eBay and decide I don't like it, I expect to eat the shipping charges unless there was blatant misrepresentation on the seller's part. The "blatant misrepresentation" is pretty obvious here. Besides, I think a simple reversal of the PayPal transaction should also reverse out the seller's PayPal fees -- and a return should reverse the FVF, so the seller only is stuck with the initial listing fee.
Though there is still the feedback question. If he ultimately refunded *everything*, including shipping, I'd probably be inclined to just leave none at all. Though between the coin doctoring and his implications that YOU were doing the scamming, that's better than he deserves.
The only fees the seller will incur are Ebay fees.
He can file for fee credits.
In the end the only loser is the sellers reputation (BAD - which in this case is well deserved!) >>
Well, I'm still out the shipping but I will add that to my education expense total for the year. Thanks for everyone's help and moral support in dealing with this.
If there has been a doctoring of images like that shown and noted in this thread, I think it's a shame that the seller won't be getting negative feedback, and potential buyers of his future offerings, a fair warning.
BigGreek, whatever you do, please, please leave negative feedback stating he's a photo doctorer, and perhaps link to this thread. If "reversing" the transaction means you can't expose this scammer, don't do it. I'd be willing to kick in $20 to help you absorb the loss, since that feedback will save other collectors thousands of dollars.
<< <i>If there has been a doctoring of images like that shown and noted in this thread, I think it's a shame that the seller won't be getting negative feedback, and potential buyers of his future offerings, a fair warning. >>
I believe this seller will still receive poor feedback from me, regardless of the resolution.
Here's why: most important, denial that there's a problem with the auction. Looking at previous auctions the seller has clear unenhanced pictures. It looks like he started playing around with them recently. He could have claimed bad scanner and bowed out gracefully (I certainly gave him that out) but instead he accused me of tarnishing his good name. With that he crossed the line and will get the neg. he deserves.
He does deserve a negative for this, just don't do it until you have your money back. And you know you're probably going to get a lie filled retaliatory in return.
The 32-s quarter ( Key date BIN $399.00) looks doctored.
Although the description states:
"KEY DATE/MM WASHINGTON QUARTER THAT IS BRILLIANT, NICELY STRUCK WITH EXCELLENT ORIGINAL MINT LUSTER.
THERE ARE A FEW LIGHT TICKS AND SCUFFS, BUT NOTHING DISTRACTING. THIS ONE HAS UNCIRCULATED DETAILS BUT MAY HAVE BEEN HIT WITH A CLEANING CLOTH SOMETIME IN THE PAST, BUT IT ISN'T ANYTHING HARSH. WILL FIT EASILY INTO ANY UNCIRCULATED WASHINGTON QUARTER SET. "
The pictures have a glow, and the reversed looks like the Eagle has a woody and it is blurred for TV.
A witty saying proves nothing- Voltaire (1694 - 1778)
An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor
does the truth become error because nobody will see it. -Mohandas K. Gandhi (1869-1948)
I will make a one time exception and agree to take back the 41-S Half Dollar. Cancel your complaint as filed with Paypal, return the coin to me and I will refund your original purchase price less any paypal fees. Postage and shipping will not be refunded.
Do not cancel your complaint. YOU CAUGHT HIM & he knows it. The pictures you have (make sure you save them in your HD) are clearly doctored. PayPal & eBay will want to see them. Tell him to refund ALL your money immediately or you will turn him over to the Cincinnati police department and the Feds at the USPS for mail fraud. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you withdraw your complaint! This person needs to be dealt with before he screws other people.
I agree with the latest voices as well. You deserve 100% of your money back.....there was fraud involved. It wasn't like you got the coins and decided you didn't like them on a sight seen basis.
I got my money back. But now I am starting to have second thoughts on neg'ing him. After all he did refund me so what right do I have to neg the guy? I'm not worried about retaliation, I just want to do the right thing.
I rarely weigh in on this sort of thread, but I think you ought to neg this seller even if he gave you your money back. For instance, if a bank robber is caught and then returns the money, the robber is not left off the hook. Clearly this seller was caught. And, while the offense he likely committed is not comparable to robbing a bank, nonetheless I think my analogy is apt. Simply undoing an "evil" deed after being caught does not lessen the fact that an "evil" deed was done.
1) He was dishonest 2) He argued it even when caught 3) He charged you for his dishonesty 4) He kept some of YOUR money (see #3) 5) He will, and likely has, done it before. 6) Do you wish someone before you had negged him for this type of thing? 7) If the answer to 6 is no, then move on. If yes, then continue 8) You have the chance to do what is right. You state you want to do what is right? 9) Neg his slimy butt so others can beware as well.
Alright... I'm lost here... somebody tell me what CoinWath is and where I can find it...
I've got my own Sellers to file against...
Thanks!
Steve
U.S. Air Force Security Forces Retired
In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
He should not have taken ANY of your money, and should have given you extra for return postage. NEG the bass turd, and, in the message say he sold a fraudulently doctored coin, and still kept $6 of your dough.
yeah, do a search on it on this site, it's been discussed before. If you log on through the taiwanese ebay portal or something like that, you can. Have fun...
<< <i>You can tell a definite photoshop on the walker because the slab is cut off around the edges. >>
Oh, yeah, be sure to mention the photo was "photoshopped". Forgot about that. I was thinking of the fake frost coin, but I think that was another listing of that scumbag's.
<< <i>You can tell a definite photoshop on the walker because the slab is cut off around the edges. >>
Don't we all crop our Ebay photos? I do and I'm not trying to hide anything. Cause if you don't crop them you end up having a much smaller coin and much more background.
Neg him, and describe it as best you can.
"Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself." - William Faulkner NoEbayAuctionsForNow
I'd leave out the $6 shipping. It seem sort of petty in the scheme of things. But I would definitely take this guy all the way to the mat on the other issues. He deserves a neg if he photo-shopped. The overall picture of the Walker is just very poor and fuzzed out. Most everything on the coin is blurred out. I don't know anything about photo taking but at first glance I'd just say that whole photo looks wrong from top to bottom. Isn't it possible he just took a terrible photo....that happened to make the coin look like an upgrade shot?
The name Don Esterman sounds very familiar to me. I just cannot recall where I've heard it from. It would likely to back to my days of buying out of Coin World in the 70's or 80's. The guy may well be associated with some numismatic organizations. And if in the ANA, you can apply excellent leverage that way. Good luck.
<< <i>Good idea. Use the 80 character as follows: "Seller uses Doctored images to hide defects in Coins - Refund, Seller kept $6"
The seller will reply with some BS, then you can reply to that with more detail in a follow-up message. >>
Well, Big Greek not only did not neg the seller who perputrated the fraud which was the subject of this thread, he called the scumbag a "great seller" (See Dec. 22 feedback left for donald115):
Yikes looks like the coin posse will disown one of its members. Maybe we should give him a chance to explain. I notice the seller has another 41-s on ebay for sell. The sun looks like it could have been messed with too, but hard to tell for sure.
For many, it's more important to avoid receiving a retaliatory negative from a bad seller than it is to warn others and take the feedbck hit. I say that, regardless of whether that's what happened here or not.
<< <i>For many, it's more important to avoid receiving a retaliatory negative from a bad seller than it is to warn others and take the feedbck hit. I say that, regardless of whether that's what happened here or not. >>
I can understand that, but leaving NO feedback is also an option here. That's not likely to get you any retaliation AND it doesn't give the seller any additional legitimacy.
I could see leaving no feedback at all as an option for those afraid of retaliation. But a positive? I don't get it.
Ziggy, I'm with you on that! In my opinion, leaving positive feedback like that is dishonest and a betrayal to those who look at and rely (in part) on feedback history left by others.
Comments
<< <i>Don't do it!! You should get every cent of your money back and insist on it!!! He is a scammer and should not get away with taking ANY of your money. >>
If I buy a coin on eBay and decide I don't like it, I expect to eat the shipping charges unless there was blatant misrepresentation on the seller's part. The "blatant misrepresentation" is pretty obvious here. Besides, I think a simple reversal of the PayPal transaction should also reverse out the seller's PayPal fees -- and a return should reverse the FVF, so the seller only is stuck with the initial listing fee.
Though there is still the feedback question. If he ultimately refunded *everything*, including shipping, I'd probably be inclined to just leave none at all. Though between the coin doctoring and his implications that YOU were doing the scamming, that's better than he deserves.
<< <i>P.S.
The only fees the seller will incur are Ebay fees.
He can file for fee credits.
In the end the only loser is the sellers reputation (BAD - which in this case is well deserved!) >>
Well, I'm still out the shipping but I will add that to my education expense total
for the year. Thanks for everyone's help and moral support in dealing with this.
Please check out my eBay auctions!
My WLH Short Set Registry Collection
Anybody else?
Anybody else?
Count me in for $20. It's sellers like this guy who run so many legitimate potential buyers away from eBay. That is costing me money, imo.
I just cannot believe that he is not going to refund you everything, including shipping. This guy has some balls.
Our eBay auctions - TRUE auctions: start at $0.01, no reserve, 30 day unconditional return privilege & free shipping!
$10 here
<< <i>If there has been a doctoring of images like that shown and noted in this thread, I think it's a shame that the seller won't be getting negative feedback, and potential buyers of his future offerings, a fair warning. >>
I believe this seller will still receive poor feedback from me, regardless of
the resolution.
Here's why: most important, denial that there's a problem with the auction.
Looking at previous auctions the seller has clear unenhanced pictures. It
looks like he started playing around with them recently. He could have claimed
bad scanner and bowed out gracefully (I certainly gave him that out) but
instead he accused me of tarnishing his good name. With that he crossed the
line and will get the neg. he deserves.
Please check out my eBay auctions!
My WLH Short Set Registry Collection
<< <i>I believe this seller will still receive poor feedback from me, regardless of >>
Glad to hear it.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Although the description states:
"KEY DATE/MM WASHINGTON QUARTER THAT IS BRILLIANT, NICELY STRUCK WITH EXCELLENT ORIGINAL MINT LUSTER.
THERE ARE A FEW LIGHT TICKS AND SCUFFS, BUT NOTHING DISTRACTING. THIS ONE HAS UNCIRCULATED DETAILS BUT MAY HAVE BEEN HIT WITH A CLEANING CLOTH SOMETIME IN THE PAST, BUT IT ISN'T ANYTHING HARSH. WILL FIT EASILY INTO ANY UNCIRCULATED WASHINGTON QUARTER SET. "
The pictures have a glow, and the reversed looks like the Eagle has a woody and it is blurred for TV.
A witty saying proves nothing- Voltaire (1694 - 1778)
An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor
does the truth become error because nobody will see it. -Mohandas K. Gandhi (1869-1948)
Do not cancel your complaint. YOU CAUGHT HIM & he knows it. The pictures you have (make sure you save them in your HD) are clearly doctored. PayPal & eBay will want to see them. Tell him to refund ALL your money immediately or you will turn him over to the Cincinnati police department and the Feds at the USPS for mail fraud.
Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you withdraw your complaint! This person needs to be dealt with before he screws other people.
Glenn
You deserve 100% of your money back.....there was fraud involved. It wasn't like you got the coins and decided you didn't like them on a sight seen basis.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Does the seller get a RMA form from paypal? How does paypal
deal with it?
Please check out my eBay auctions!
My WLH Short Set Registry Collection
If so file a copmplaint there as well.
Maybe we should all send this seller a question, and point to the fact he has doctored photos.
We should also point him to this thread so that he can see how many folks he has lost as potential buyers.
Let's do that after the buyer gets his refund!
Down with the scammers!
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
Did you get your money back? And are you going to do what needs to be done vis-a-vis alerting the public about this seller's Photoshop ways?
neg'ing him. After all he did refund me so what right do I have to neg the
guy? I'm not worried about retaliation, I just want to do the right thing.
Please check out my eBay auctions!
My WLH Short Set Registry Collection
<< <i>Did he give you a full refund? >>
He kept $6 for shipping.
Please check out my eBay auctions!
My WLH Short Set Registry Collection
I rarely weigh in on this sort of thread, but I think you ought to neg this seller even if he gave you your money back. For instance, if a bank robber is caught and then returns the money, the robber is not left off the hook. Clearly this seller was caught. And, while the offense he likely committed is not comparable to robbing a bank, nonetheless I think my analogy is apt. Simply undoing an "evil" deed after being caught does not lessen the fact that an "evil" deed was done.
Good luck with your decision.
Mark
My Auctions
The right thing to do is to alert other buyers of this guy's unethical behavior...... neg him.
2) He argued it even when caught
3) He charged you for his dishonesty
4) He kept some of YOUR money (see #3)
5) He will, and likely has, done it before.
6) Do you wish someone before you had negged him for this type of thing?
7) If the answer to 6 is no, then move on. If yes, then continue
8) You have the chance to do what is right. You state you want to do what is right?
9) Neg his slimy butt so others can beware as well.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I've got my own Sellers to file against...
Thanks!
Steve
In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
80 chars?
Please check out my eBay auctions!
My WLH Short Set Registry Collection
Have fun...
<< <i>You can tell a definite photoshop on the walker because the slab is cut off around the edges. >>
Oh, yeah, be sure to mention the photo was "photoshopped". Forgot about that. I was thinking of the fake frost coin, but I think that was another listing of that scumbag's.
<< <i>Is there a way I can leave feedback with more text than the standard
80 chars? >>
Try this
<< <i>You can tell a definite photoshop on the walker because the slab is cut off around the edges. >>
Don't we all crop our Ebay photos? I do and I'm not trying to hide anything. Cause if you don't crop them you end up having a much smaller coin and much more background.
Neg him, and describe it as best you can.
NoEbayAuctionsForNow
09/07/2006
The seller will reply with some BS, then you can reply to that with more detail in a follow-up message.
The name Don Esterman sounds very familiar to me. I just cannot recall where I've heard it from. It would likely to back to my days of buying out of Coin World in the 70's or 80's. The guy may well be associated with some numismatic organizations. And if in the ANA, you can apply excellent leverage that way. Good luck.
roadrunner
<< <i>Good idea. Use the 80 character as follows: "Seller uses Doctored images to hide defects in Coins - Refund, Seller kept $6"
The seller will reply with some BS, then you can reply to that with more detail in a follow-up message. >>
Well, Big Greek not only did not neg the seller who perputrated the fraud which was the subject of this thread, he called the scumbag a "great seller" (See Dec. 22 feedback left for donald115):
Link
Big Greek, Why the hell ask the forum for advice on this when you wimp out?? This sucks!!
The guy screwed you out of at least $6, and you thank him. Unbelievable!
Feedback ONLY works if you tell the truth.
Glenn
<< <i>For many, it's more important to avoid receiving a retaliatory negative from a bad seller than it is to warn others and take the feedbck hit. I say that, regardless of whether that's what happened here or not. >>
I can understand that, but leaving NO feedback is also an option here. That's not likely to get you any retaliation AND it doesn't give the seller any additional legitimacy.
I could see leaving no feedback at all as an option for those afraid of retaliation. But a positive? I don't get it.