When a Dealer asks "what do you need for that coin"

cmanbb · November 1, 2004 6:23AM

Really bothers me. You know why?
Because they don't want to leave any money on the table.

EXAMPLE: If you shoot a price of $100.00 (first), and they were willing to offer $200.00 for the coin, guess what, you just lost $100.00. This is why I get a price first. If no price (from dealer first), I move on to the next dealer......................After all THEY know the market a whole lot better than the collector does!!

Any opinions...........................

nwcs · November 1, 2004 6:25AM

I would reply to that question, "retail value, so let's negotiate from there."

K6AZ · November 1, 2004 6:28AM

You should know what your bottom line on a coin is. Either the dealer will offer you that, or you move on to another dealer. The "what do you need for this coin" is just another in the dealer's bag-o-tricks.

BigD5 · November 1, 2004 6:37AM

Most dealers will ask what you want for an item more to get an idea of what you, the seller, values the item at.

If you simply state that you don't know what it's worth and would like an offer, some will give an offer, some may not. Depends on the item.

If you, as a seller, are so afraid of "leaving money on the table", then do a bit of research yourself BEFORE you offer items for sale. If you don't do any research, then you may deserve to leave more money on the table than necessary.

Not trying to be cute with that comment, but it's common sense.

if you were selling your used car, would you blindly walk into a dealership to sell, or would you try and find similar auto's to get a comparable value, as best as possible?

BigD5 · November 1, 2004 6:41AM

I don't think it's a "bag-o-tricks".

When I'm sitting behind a table, I want to know how much a seller is looking to receive for that item. If they are quoting Greysheet ask (example) for dipped out white, common date Morgans, well, there is no need for me to waste their or my time any further.

I'm looking more for a ballpark of a sellers perceived value than anything else when I ask that or a similar question, pertaining to the asking price of an item.

K6AZ · November 1, 2004 6:45AM

Bag-o-tricks was used figuratively, not literally. If you look at what I posted, it virtually matches what you said. The "how much do you need for this coin" line is one of the standard dealer lines, and one must not be offended by it.

UncleJoe · November 1, 2004 6:50AM

It's called low-balling. A tactic widely used by car dealers.

I dislike its use by coin dealers. Dealers should know what a fair price is for something they want to buy. Lowballing provides the dealer an opportunity for paying a not-so-fair price.

Joe.

Russ · November 1, 2004 7:02AM

<< <i>If you shoot a price of $100.00 (first), and they were willing to offer $200.00 for the coin, guess what, you just lost $100.00. >>

If you're asking $100 for a $200 coin I'd say the problem is yours, not the dealer's.

Russ, NCNE

Barry · November 1, 2004 7:15AM

When a Dealer asks "what do you need for that coin"

If you don't like that approach, just answer back, "I need your offer."

gemtone65 · November 1, 2004 7:18AM

You don't have to answer such a question, which is really asking what did you pay for the coin. Simply tell the dealer how much you want for the coin. If you own it, and want to sell, you should be prepared to put a price on it.

K6AZ · November 1, 2004 7:20AM

And of course, the flip side of this from a dealer's perspective is "what's the best you can do on this". It works both ways.

stman · November 1, 2004 7:42AM

<< <i>When a Dealer asks "what do you need for that coin" >>

This usually happens AFTER I have quoted my price. I just give them a firm look and say...
"I JUST TOLD YOU WHAT I NEED" And move on.

TheNumish · November 1, 2004 7:54AM

It's not a black and white issue. Sometimes I ask what someone wants to qualify them. If a guy thinks his coin is worth $100 and I offer $25 thinking I can sell it for $30 he's going to walk away mad. Then he's going to get on the message board and talk about that lousy cheapskate dealer that offered $25 for his $100 coin. Sometimes I'm not that interested in buying the coin or really don't know the value and ask what they want just to see what they say. Another situation is if a guy owns a coin, has a bid sheet and has already talked to 10 other dealers about it it's time to be a man and step up and give a price. If someone is genuinly interested in selling a coin, doesn't know what they want if I want the coin I'll make an offer. If it's something I deal in it's really not a big deal. Making offers is second nature. I'm a dealer and believe it or not I don't sit around like an evil spider trying to figure out how to rip people off. Usually I just like paying a fair price and selling it for a fair price.

Peaceman · November 1, 2004 7:56AM

Who here thinks they are going to get retail from a dealer........ ?

centmaster · November 1, 2004 7:56AM

It most certainly does cut both ways. When we ask a dealer what he wants for a coin that he has an unmarked price on, then aren't we doing the exact same thing? If the dealer quotes us a price of half of what we were thinking, then would we say we really should pay him more, as the coin is such and such variety or undergraded, etc.? Of course not. Don't always assume the dealer knows exactly what a coin is worth and don't assume that the dealer knows more about your specialty than you do. Chances are he doesn't.

TomB · November 1, 2004 7:57AM

My opinion is that you must not know the market very well and you should probably learn a bit more before losing money on any coin transactions.

The phrase you are complaining about is exactly the question that I ask of dealers at every major show when they have a coin that I am interested in. I don't play games with coin prices; I ask someone for their best price and if it is not at or below what I have already established in my mind that the coin is worth then I simply politely decline and walk away. The predetermined price in my head is not intimately tied to a guide sheet or book, rather, it is based on market reality. No games, no hard feelings.

Similarly, when I take a table at a show and someone offers me coins, I always ask what they need for them. After all, they are not asking for an appraisal, are they? No, they are attempting to sell. In this scenario, they are now the seller and I am the buyer, albeit on opposite sides of the table as you may typically imagine it. Therefore, as the seller they should know what the item is worth to them. As an analogy, how would you like to approach a dealer's table and inquire about the price of a coin only to be told that you have to throw a value out for it first? That wouldn't make much sense.

BigD5 · November 1, 2004 8:06AM

No offense taken K6az.

RYK · November 1, 2004 8:07AM

My opinion is that you must not know the market very well and you should probably learn a bit more before losing money on any coin transactions.

Probably so.

I have been peeling off coins that do not fit my core collecting interest that I have picked up along the way. For these coins, I really have no idea what the approximate retail, wholesale, auction, ebay, etc. values are. I loathe the "what do you need for the coin?" question. I usually stammer some stupid number when asked (I was similarly burned when I bought a used car this spring

.

For the coins that I actively buy (and occasionally sell), I have a very good idea what these numbers are, and I feel like I have a lot more control of the transaction (buy or sell).

coinkat · November 1, 2004 10:42AM

I see no harm in a dealer asking that question. Always do your homework before selling. If you have nice coins and want offers, then consider one of the auction houses and just let them deal with it.

LincolnCentMan · November 1, 2004 10:47AM

It's been my experience that the person who own the coin always quotes the first price. And most dealers wont know more than you in your nich. My typical answer to dealers asking that question is, "90% of greysheet bid." I realize they can usually whole sell it for 90-100% of GSB, so I make it safe for them. ...and if it's a registry quality coin, I dont sell it to dealers... there are plenty of collectors that will pay average market for that stuff.

David

BigAl · November 1, 2004 11:11AM

It's a legit question. When selling, you should have a ballpark idea of what kind of money you want, and you should be prepared to throw out a number.

When you're at a dealer's table perusing his inventory, don't you ask what he "wants" for a particular coin? The same should apply to you as a seller. It's your coin.....how much do you want to sell it for? Once that's out of the way, let the haggling begin. While I don't see a problem asking a dealer what his interest would be for a certain coin, I feel the seller should be obliged to thow out the first number.

mirabela · November 1, 2004 11:14AM

LincolnCentMan, I think you are getting toward the issue that makes it most difficult for Joe Average Smalltimish Collector when quoting a price to a dealer. It isn't easy for a person who doesn't do tons and tons of this to know what is the right percentage of sheet to expect to sell a given coin at. With really desireable stuff, it might be realistic to expect to sell it to a dealer for 90% or better; I would expect these to be the things a dealer figures they have a ready retail market for. It seems like a lot of dealers buy to wholesale to other dealers, though, and for ordinary no-great-shakes collector coins it might have to be more like 70% or so for there to be enough money in it to make it worthwhile for the buying dealer. With junk, even less. I think I'm only just arriving at the point where I can go to a dealer with an informed, realistic asking price that's fair to both of us.

JohnMaben · November 1, 2004 11:28AM

There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking someone what they want for a coin, even if you are a dealer. likewise, there is absolutely nothing wrong with not giving that dealer an answer if you don't want to. It is wrong to assume that the dealer is just looking to "lowball" you if he asks you what you want for your coin(s).

PTVETTER · November 1, 2004 11:42AM

Do you ask the dealer how much he wants for his coin then it's only fair for the dealer to ask the seller how much he want for his coin

morgannut2 · November 1, 2004 11:46AM

Unless its a PCGS Morgan DMPL CC mint, I just say 10% over bid, This a very nice coin! (Of course it requires a subscription but if you have the sheets at least you won't get lowballed.) Then he says no "I'm not interested," and I say" Are you blind This is on everyones want list ! What do you think it's worth?" and He says" the cheek is baggy but... etc. etc. ". Seems easy to me.

ldhair · November 1, 2004 12:09PM

What do you need for this. That's just what I ask of the dealer.
I'm glad they ask the same. Why play around. There must be a starting point.

robertpr · November 1, 2004 12:15PM

Dealer: "What do you need for that coin?"

You: "A night with your wife."

Dealer: "I don't think so."

You: "Then how about cash?"

beartracks42 · November 1, 2004 2:16PM

I feel that I, as a collector selling a coin, need to know the GS bid for the average coin, what I have in the coin, quality of the coin and what I will take, bottom line. If not, I should go another direction, such as auctions or consignments.

The above philosophy in reverse, is how I purchase coins. I know what the price of an average coin for the grade is, and make a judgement of what I will pay, based on the coin as I view it. This way, I know if I can buy it when the dealer tells me his price.

I do not take offense to "what do you need out of the coin", anymore than dealers do with "what can you do".

ANACONDA · November 1, 2004 2:42PM

I was a coin show this past Saturday and a coin dude brought a textile coin to me and asked me a few questions including "what would you pay me for it". I told him $200. He couldn't accept my offer fast enough. I think I could have gotton it alot cheaper. That's my life story. I could become a member of Densa, I'll have you know. At least he gave me a good handshake afterwords.

UncleJoe · November 1, 2004 10:23PM

I disagree.

First, low-balling as used in different industries is a concept not a definition. It basically is getting a dollar amount out of the other party so you know where the ceiling/floor is.

As far as what has been written in the previous posts, I think it is interesting that many would bash "wannabe dealers" but now you expect Joe Blow (no pun intended) collector to basically have all the information of at least a wannabe dealer when selling his coins. Sorry, you can't have it both ways.

I expect a "dealer" not to use his knowledge to take unfair advantage of Joe Blow collector. Yes, I believe the burden is on the dealer to make sure the "deal" is right for both parties.

Joe.

Dog97 · November 1, 2004 11:52PM

If a dealer makes an offer then it makes the collector mad.
If the dealer asks how much the collector wants then it makes the collector mad.
Poor ole dealers. They can't win for losing! heehe haha

If a collector thinks he can negotiate a deal by either him or the dealer uttering 2 simply sentences then he obviously doesn't know the art of making a deal. There's the initial offer, then counteroffers then more counteroffers, then the expected remarks about the dealers being a tightwad and squeaking when he walks then more counteroffers. Just like when you're buying a car or a house or trying to get a better rate on a CD down at the bank.

However on a $100 coin the dealer pretty much knows what he will pay and there really isn't much room for haggling.

BigGreek · November 2, 2004 12:06AM

My response to the question, is to quote them about 10% below the typical
retail price. Naturally this is more than any dealer would want to pay but at least
it gives them a starting point. A few dealers will shake their heads and offer much
lower (typically these are the guys with tables near the door, funny how that is).
I'll usually look for a dealer who seems to specialize in the type I'm selling. These
dealers will have a better appreciation of the going price and will figure they can
turn it around quicker.

The first couple of times I sold coins to dealers, I was nervous and unsure. But
after a while I learned to relax and now I actually look forward to it. It's an
opportunity to have a little friendly haggling. Then again, I'm the type of guy who
will spend two hours at a car dealership working on the price.

Tsimmerdown · November 2, 2004 2:00AM

There is nothing wrong with that question because it establishes the price where you start the negotiations from. The reason why a collector selling their coins dislikes being asked this question, is because they are put at a disadvantage initially in the negotiations. The party who is first to ask this question naturally has the advantage, as they don't have to reveal what they would pay for the item.

However, if you think about it, the dealer is more often at the disadvantage in the negotiations. The dealer has his prices listed on his coins, and if he doesn't, the collector will then ask. By listing and quoting prices all the time, the dealer is constantly being asked "what do you need for that coin?" The question is fair and necessary, but no one likes entering negotiations with this disadvantage.

In my line of work, price negotiation is part of the game. I don't deal with the general public the way a dealer does, but someone is always at a disadvantage, depending on the specifics of the deal. It's a risk you have to take when entering into negotiations, which is why it is important for you to understand the market for what you are buying or selling. In other words, don't sell the coin unless you know what you expect to get from it. Don't blame the dealer because you entered into the negotiation with one hand tied behind your back. Offer your figure with confidence and phrase it as such that you're willing to negotiate on the final sale price.

EagleEye · November 2, 2004 2:11AM

I think the important thing to in a negotiation is to leave your options open.

If you're asked "What do you need" you should at least give a price you'd be happy to sell it for, it may be high, but it starts the negotiation. Remember, it's your coin, you always have to option to say "NO".

Fairness on both sides of the negotiation should be apparent, otherwise walk. Don't try to trap the dealer, or you'll piss her off and she may just pass on you (she may even be the high high buyer). If the dealer gives you what you feel is a unfair price, ask her to show how she arrived at that number. Again you can always say "no".

UncleJoe · November 2, 2004 2:27AM

her?

Rick, I would like to believe that if I showed you an Indian Head cent that I have for sale (and no rarity, one you sell day in and day out) that you do not need to ask me "What do I need for it?", you already know what a fair price is for you to buy it.

You are the expert and as such I expect you to treat me ethically. (This is not to say that anything already posted is necessarily unethical)

Joe.

EagleEye · November 2, 2004 7:53AM

Of course, "I" would treat your fairly. As a recognized expert, I get collectors and dealers asking me for my input on pricing all the time. I always feel obligated to give the best opinion I can. You have to ask though.

mrearlygold · November 2, 2004 11:35AM

At least he gave me a good handshake afterwords. >>

Hey he could have tried to kiss you instead Adrian. Then what would you have done?

Tom

ANACONDA · November 3, 2004 9:51PM

Depends. Did he grab my butt too?

UncleJoe · November 3, 2004 9:58PM

You have to ask though.

Not sure what that means.

If the dealer is asking "What do you need for that coin?", I assume I have already asked what he would give me for it.
Or is there some other way to ask?

Joe.

Edit: spelling

Outhaul · November 3, 2004 10:18PM

It is encumbent upon the seller to:

1. Know his/her material
If you know the value of your material there is little chance of any money being left on the table.

2. Know his/her price
As the seller of the material you are obligated to provide an asking price and negotiate from there.

It sounds as though you're paranoid that the dealer is going to tuck you up, when, in fact, the dealer is asking a perfectly legitimate question. Don't forget, when you offer a coin for sale (even to a dealer), YOU become the dealer.

How would you like it if you walked up to a dealer's table, asked how much a particular coin was, and he/she replied, "What'll you give me for it?"

Just my two-cents

Cheers,

Bob

UncleJoe · November 3, 2004 10:24PM

YOU become the dealer

That's exactly my point, I am NOT a dealer and there seems to be an awful lot of disgust on these boards for wannabe dealers.

But now all of a sudden when I want to sell a DEALER a coin, I am supposed to be as savvy as a dealer. So there are no amateurs in this hobby that should not be taken advantage of by professionals?

"What'll you give me for it?"

Yes, I have been asked that question by dealers also.

Joe.

Outhaul · November 3, 2004 10:52PM

Well, Joe,

If I walked up to a dealer's table and asked for a price and got that response, I'd go to another table.

As a collector, you should be aware of the value of your coins and should be able to quote an accurate price when asked. With a modicum of effort on your part you should be able to come up with a solid figure on value. There are many price guides and other resources at your disposal. This is your best insurance in avoiding leaving money on the table.

Don't forget, there are just as many collectors out there who know just as much, if not more, than some dealers. The only difference being which side of the table you're on.

Reading and research cannot be underscored as the best tools to realizing maximum price for your coins. This is not a shot at you, personally, but good advice for all collectors both new and seasoned. Reading and research builds confidence. When I first started collecting and sold some of my first coins I always felt uneasy when I left the table feeling that I just sold myself short. Reading and research gave me the confidence I needed to negotiate effectively in both buying AND selling.

Cheers,

Bob

UncleJoe · November 3, 2004 11:23PM

This is not a shot at you

None taken.

But your answer as well as others seem to be saying that their is NO responsilbility on the dealer's part to treat a "customer" "fairly".

I disagree with this. If you are acting as a "professional" then I expect you to be "professional" (ethical/fair) in your dealings with the "public".

It is not necessarily about "leaving money on the table". As I wrote in a previous post, it is hard for me to believe that Rick Snow has to ask "What do you need" for an Indian Head cent when he most assuredly knows as a dealer in Indian Head cents what is a "fair" price for him to pay for such a coin.

Joe.

Numismanic · November 3, 2004 11:24PM

<< <i>Reading and research cannot be underscored as the best tools to realizing maximum price for your coins >>

Outhaul · November 3, 2004 11:31PM

I'm not saying that there is any good excuse for a dealer to treat a customer unfairly, what I am saying is that by arming yourself with good information, the unscrupulous dealers will be at a disadvantage and you will have the respect of the good dealers.

Cheers,

Bob

BTW, excellent thread...

Cheers,

Bob

orie · November 4, 2004 1:22AM

It's my coin, I'll price it. If it's your coin, you price it. A dealer making an offer on my coin, a bad place to start from.

BASEagle · November 4, 2004 1:58AM

Ok, I haven't read every single post, so maybe someone has already said this, but, here goes:

If your coin is worth more than, say, $100, then you've GOT to have a price in mind when you approach a dealer. Prices aren't that hard to find. Ebay, for example, shows sales from the past 30 days. Heritage archives, others come to mind. When the dealer asks, tell him, "Well, one of these sold on Heritage the other day for $XXX and they're selling on ebay for $XXX, and I want to get a price in that range."

If he declines, he declines. Someone will buy it, someone has been buying in that range.

Mike

Outhaul · November 4, 2004 4:40AM

...because I think it's been one of the more interesting threads lately...

Cheers,

Bob

RockyMtnProspector · April 15, 2018 7:54PM

Was looking for information on a different topic and this old post turned up--interesting debate about pricing and offering as a collector to a dealer, and the initiation of price negotiations.

I've started offering my excess as a way to keep my new collecting interests funded. Mostly coins I've upgraded, or acquired as part of estate sales and the like. Learning to price and to sell is an eye-opening process, and I'm just setting up at club bourses, not at shows.

Coinstartled · April 15, 2018 8:02PM

Some classic names in this old thread.

Cougar1978 · April 15, 2018 8:14PM

You could start at 5pct behind CDN bid

When a Dealer asks "what do you need for that coin"

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When a Dealer asks &quot;what do you need for that coin&quot;

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When a Dealer asks "what do you need for that coin"