I see Hooger and his bogus proof Morgan are back.

Russ · November 19, 2003 10:20AM

This guy is the Energizer Bunny of con artists.

Russ, NCNE

kieferscoins · November 19, 2003 10:25AM

<< by NGC and others including a un-named industry group. >>

That must be us. Mechanical errors bring $5-20 over a normal coins price depending upon the severity of the error.

Cameron Kiefer

billboat · November 19, 2003 10:32AM

So its a low end MS63 that was mis-labeled as PF? Or is there some other "error" that I'm missing--it sure isn't a proof.

airplanenut · November 19, 2003 10:33AM

He told me in an email that the coin was most certainly a proof... just last week. He said the "cartwheel" was from the plastic.

SCUM!

FatMan · November 19, 2003 10:35AM

all at the same time.

airplanenut · November 19, 2003 10:35AM

Here was my email:

Actually the luster is scuffs on the holder. I have noted the ad and will
stand behind the items satisfaction to the buyer.
Sometimes pictures do not show the coin well especially in the holder.
Thanks,
BJ

----- Original Message -----
From: <airplanenut312@comcast.net>
To: <service@hoogercoins.com>
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 11:00 PM
Subject: Question for seller -- Item #2201913828

> Hi,
>
> Just informing you that this coin is NOT a proof... it is a business
strike. I recommend cancelling the auction and sending the coin to NGC so
they can fix the problem. A proof coin will not have the cartwheel luster
your picture shows.

abuell · November 19, 2003 10:37AM

Miss Liberty looks like she belonged to a German dueling club in her college days!

BigE · November 19, 2003 10:56AM

He says "welcome to America the coin is being sold! Sorry NGC your offer is refused and in America the highest dollars talks and I can't hear you". This person is obviously very sick and dangerous if he thinks this is the American way

------------------BigE

coinguy1 · November 19, 2003 11:05AM

The seller actually asked the previous "high bidder" if he would leave positive feedback, even after the "high bidder" informed him that he would not be completing the transaction.

The "high bidder" declined, stating that he would not feel comfortable or sincere in doing so, as it appeared the seller was trying to deceive people, etc.

Placid · November 19, 2003 11:05AM

boogercoins yuk

XpipedreamR · November 19, 2003 1:07PM

I like how he's trying to spin the fact that it is a "mechanical error coin," as if this is some kind of actual coin error rather than a typo. What a turd.

FrattLaw · November 19, 2003 2:29PM

I just sent him this email.................

Why do you continue to try to sell this coin?

As an attorney licensed to practice in the state of California I can't advise you as to the laws governing fraud in Pennsylvania, however, if someone from California happens to purchase that coin, and based upon your description, you might end up being dragged into court in California for fraudulent misrepresentation.

It is apparent from your description that you are aware that there's a mechanical error and it is not a proof. NGC even attempted to purchase this coin from you based upon that error. However you decided that the almighty dollar should control your actions. Further, you do not state in the auction that coin is NOT a proof issue. While I'm not writing to give you "free" legal advice, I would ask that you end the auction and return the coin to NGC so that the mistake may be corrected. It may save yourself as well as the buyer from potential headaches.

Thanks
Michael

Any thoughts?

Michael

uofa1285 · November 19, 2003 2:32PM

Good job!

dragon · November 19, 2003 2:53PM

After viewing many dozens of Ebay auctions for both coins and other items where it's obvious the sellers clear intent is to deceive, cheat, or otherwise misrepresent items, I have found that it's rather pointless to email these sellers. They know exactly what they are doing and exactly what they are offering, and you are not going to change their ways. I think they just actually get a chuckle out of it when people email them. The 'private auctions' are usually a dead giveaway in many cases.

dragon

stman · November 19, 2003 2:56PM

<< The 'private auctions' are usually a dead giveaway in many cases. >>

Unless of course it's one of our own.

Veridicus · November 19, 2003 2:58PM

<< I just sent him this email.................

Why do you continue to try to sell this coin?

As an attorney licensed to practice in the state of California I can't advise you as to the laws governing fraud in Pennsylvania, however, if someone from California happens to purchase that coin, and based upon your description, you might end up being dragged into court in California for fraudulent misrepresentation.

It is apparent from your description that you are aware that there's a mechanical error and it is not a proof. NGC even attempted to purchase this coin from you based upon that error. However you decided that the almighty dollar should control your actions. Further, you do not state in the auction that coin is NOT a proof issue. While I'm not writing to give you "free" legal advice, I would ask that you end the auction and return the coin to NGC so that the mistake may be corrected. It may save yourself as well as the buyer from potential headaches.

Thanks
Michael

Any thoughts?

Michael >>

Let us know if he replies. I'd love to hear it!

Veridicus · November 19, 2003 3:40PM

Hooger update:

He sent this email in reply to my ebay question,

I am cancelling the auction. I have tried to explain the coin and see if
someone wants it but everyone is confused and does not understand the point
so I guess not going to go the way I had thought. I just thought someone
might want to hold on to a mechanical error as a collectors item.
Whatever - I have spoken to many and I do not feel people understand my
point so thank you for your input and sorry if I have offended anyone.
Thanks,
BJ

FrattLaw · November 19, 2003 3:47PM

I got the same email........

Hmmmmm......I wonder why he changed his mind.

I did reply and set him this....

Good choice, though if you want to sell it as a "mechanical error" and a oddity, you have every right to do so. The only difference is that you should explain that in your auction and tell any potential bidders that the coin is NOT a proof. I am sure that you would still get bids on it.

The only problem with doing that is that your purchaser might try to sell it as a proof later on and then this starts all over again. Let NGC correct its mistake and buy back the coin. Otherwise, this coin could cause problems for a lot of people as long as it remains misattributed.

Thanks
Michael

Michael

Deadhorse · November 19, 2003 3:48PM

Very interesting! I sent him an email tonight and this is the response I got about 5 minutes ago:

I have tried to explain the auction but your email has shown me it is still not explained properly I will pull the auction. I do not feel the ad is misleading as I have said everything I know but I just thought someone might like the idea of holding a mechanical error as I have never seen one before. Anyway I will keep the coin myself as a reminder of the mixed feelings of the industry. Thanks, BJ

I still think he missed the point of my email and he certainly failed to address any of my concerns, but perhaps we can chalk one up for the good guys here.

1jester · November 19, 2003 4:08PM

He didn't miss your point. He just wants to lie low for a few weeks until we forget about his fraudulent tactics. Then he'll put it up for sale again.

Veridicus · November 19, 2003 4:24PM

<< He didn't miss your point. He just wants to lie low for a few weeks until we forget about his fraudulent tactics. Then he'll put it up for sale again.

>>

Yup, you nailed it.

nwcs · November 19, 2003 9:59PM

<< He didn't miss your point. He just wants to lie low for a few weeks until we forget about his fraudulent tactics. Then he'll put it up for sale again.

>>

Most likely.

Gilbert · November 20, 2003 12:12AM

Maybe someone should just tell him that the "slab" is a mechanical error; not the coin.

Also, a MS63 8tf trends somewhere between $150 - $200.

Generally, when someone has submission privileges, they also have the obligation to return such items for correction; which obviously was not done. The most significant thing that can be done with this item is to attempt to embarass NGC (not what I'm advocating), but that is about the only potential for this item to generate any increase in price.

For him to continue to call "the coin" an error, his opinion that it is a 64/65 PL and to have the huge $2100 price listed in conjunction with this item only serves to keep potential buyers confused (yeah, right) but more importantly, seems to emphasize that he is being, shall we say, less than forthright.

Apparently, the mail is causing him some consternation. Maybe the direct confrontation with what is wrong with his ad MAY deter him from trying this underhanded sales pitch again.

sinin1 · November 20, 2003 1:33AM

the item was closed but it showed me 4 other items for sale by seller

auctions showing the same picture - a bag of coins and some mint set cellos

what a misleading seller - I wonder if these guys get it from the book "how to get rich selling coins on eBay"?

Topdollarpaid · November 20, 2003 1:58AM

I Sent this guy a email as follows:

Dear sir, the coin is very nice, although it is not a proof. Please protect your good name and cancil the auction. Dont let greed control your life and your destination. The coin is mislabled it should be sold as a MS63 not a PR63. For the love of god you should end the auction.

His reply:

I am cancelling the auction. I have tried to explain the coin and see if
someone wants it but everyone is confused and does not understand the point
so I guess not going to go the way I had thought. I just thought someone
might want to hold on to a mechanical error as a collectors item.
Whatever - I have spoken to many and I do not feel people understand my
point so thank you for your input and sorry if I have offended anyone.
Thanks,
BJ

I will say that he has had a change of heart, for the better......

1878 8TF PF63 Morgan Silver Dollar $2100.00 Item number: 2204862836

You are signed in

Bidding has ended for this item

Deadhorse · November 20, 2003 2:40AM

<< Maybe someone should just tell him that the "slab" is a mechanical error; not the coin.

Also, a MS63 8tf trends somewhere between $150 - $200.

Generally, when someone has submission privileges, they also have the obligation to return such items for correction; which obviously was not done. The most significant thing that can be done with this item is to attempt to embarass NGC (not what I'm advocating), but that is about the only potential for this item to generate any increase in price.

For him to continue to call "the coin" an error, his opinion that it is a 64/65 PL and to have the huge $2100 price listed in conjunction with this item only serves to keep potential buyers confused (yeah, right) but more importantly, seems to emphasize that he is being, shall we say, less than forthright.

Apparently, the mail is causing him some consternation. Maybe the direct confrontation with what is wrong with his ad MAY deter him from trying this underhanded sales pitch again. >>

Gilbert, your points are part of what my email to him addressed. I told him that keeping the bidders private also gave the impression that he was operating in the shadows which looked like the work of a scam artist.

I added a few more critiques and told hm that the last time he "sold" it wasn't an accident and he could expect the same results if he persisted in this fraud.

I ended my email by telling him that quite a few people had come to the conclusion that he was a low life and his continued actions were only confirming that conclusion in the eyes of a growing number in the numismatic world.

He failed to address those points in his response, but stuck to the "I'm just being misunderstood so I'll end the auction early".

Yes, Mr. Hooger is just a poor victim..............NOT!

kranky · November 20, 2003 2:54AM

I would be more inclined to accept his statement that "I just thought someone might want to hold on to a mechanical error as a collectors item" if the auction title didn't say "$2100" along with mentioning in the auction description that a PF63 is worth $2100.

At that point, I can only conclude the seller is (was) trying to pull something.

baccaruda · November 20, 2003 3:02AM

Jeez - you guys are so judgemental. It was probably just another error in the listing.

I have a feeling there are going to be several errors in the listing in the months to come until he finally slides it under the PCGS coin chat radar screen.

Deadhorse · November 20, 2003 3:45AM

<< Jeez - you guys are so judgemental. It was probably just another error in the listing.

I have a feeling there are going to several errors in the listing in the months to come until he finally slides it under the PCGS coin chat radar screen. >>

Baccaruda, I'd bet money on your "feeling" here. I'll be keeping an eye on Mr. Hooger's auctions in the future. I hope others do the same.

Most scammers I just ignore, but this guy with his weak protestations, gets my goat. I'd be happy to buy that coin at even a reasonable premium just to get it off the market.

Stork · November 20, 2003 6:28AM

This found in the booger feedback...

<< bug-boy( 61) Nov-17-03 10:03:00 PST (private) S >>

<< Praise : WOW!!! An XF 1916-D Mercury!! What a find!! Great batch of coins!!!! >>

bug-boy has a sense of humor!

Ryana · November 20, 2003 7:05AM

baccaruda · November 20, 2003 7:23AM

Ryana - I don't think anyone's gonna bid on that auction based on the picture. It looks like it's plastic or something. The odds of that being real are about 1 in 20 I reckon.

Russ · January 29, 2004 6:13AM

Well, this crook got NARU'd but, guess what? He's back under a fresh handle!

Magically re-appears as "heatherscoinshop".

I sent an eMail asking about that auction and the dummy responded from an eMail address of heatherhooger@aol.com.

Russ, NCNE

66impalaSS · January 29, 2004 7:16AM

<< Well, this crook got NARU'd but, guess what? He's back under a fresh handle!

Magically re-appears as "heatherscoinshop".

I sent an eMail asking about that auction and the dummy responded from an eMail address of heatherhooger@aol.com.

Russ, NCNE >>

ccrdragon · January 29, 2004 8:18AM

I love that he has 5 (count them - 5!!!!) 1964 proof sets w/accented hair Kennedys that all will grade PR69+ (look at his auction list). You better jump on these quick, Russ!!!!

Russ · February 2, 2004 2:32AM

Uh oh! Poor "heatherscoinshop" got NARU'd!

I wonder how that happened?

Russ, NCNE

RiffRaff1967 · February 2, 2004 3:03AM

What a moron. Good catch Russ!

uofa1285 · February 2, 2004 3:18AM

Good job Russ!

jeffnpcb · February 2, 2004 3:30AM

I'm running a little behind. Did eBay remove all previous listings, except where I see they plugged the plug on him!

ElectricEye · February 2, 2004 4:33AM

it may have been the fact more than one person reported him to EBay

islemangu · February 2, 2004 4:59AM

This forum is becoming the posse that others dreamed of....ride on justice

ElectricEye · February 2, 2004 8:44AM

Topics > eBay Policies > Rules for Everyone > Previously Suspended Users

Suspicious Accounts:
hooger_coins 392 L96 US !23400! 043003 ?00

Other Associated Accounts:
heatherscoinshop 0

Associated item numbers:

Message: hooger_coins was suspended for fraud and is now back as heatherscoinshop (Heather Hooger) ~ they even use the same email address

I see Hooger and his bogus proof Morgan are back.

Comments

Leave a Comment