> My main issue is with the overpriced modern coin, and my concerns about what will happen to these new collectors if they lose their shirts on these pieces. Why don't you just limit your concern to anyone buying ANY overpriced coin?
> “No modern coin can ever be overpriced,” Man, you hang out in some weird places. I've never heard anything remotely like that anywhere. Why don't you take any bizarre, evil statement and rail against that for hours on end?
Some people say dont buy the plastic, you,ll miss out on a lot of nice coins! Well, the same goes for buying by the book, you,ll miss out on a lot of nice coins if your afraid to pay more than the book says! Dont let someone tell you what a coin is worth, Classic or Modern, a coin is worth what someone wants to pay for it!
You can fool man but you can't fool God! He knows why you do what you do!
<< <i>Some people say dont buy the plastic, you,ll miss out on a lot of nice coins! Well, the same goes for buying by the book, you,ll miss out on a lot of nice coins if your afraid to pay more than the book says! Dont let someone tell you what a coin is worth, Classic or Modern, a coin is worth what someone wants to pay for it! >>
A coin is worth in the end what you are able to sell it for. You are welcome to pay nutty prices for a coin all day long. At the end of the day the coin will be sold. That will be the measure of value as there are two sides to the equation.
<< <i>Why don't you take any bizarre, evil statement and rail against that for hours on end? >>
Oh yea? Well check out the responses to the thread that concerned the $39,100, 1963 Proof cent. Any coin person, who has had any experience with this hobby knew that price was insane. Even the person who bid it up to that level finally came to the conclusion that he had made a mistake.
A professional should be ready to step up a make an appropriate comment when something is really off the rails. A few of the modern coin promoters did that here, and I give them credit for that. Others, however, took the low road and tried to defend that auction result as something that was normal and justifiable, when they knew darn well that it was an aberration.
Any dealer who intentionally gives out misleading advice that places wildly inflated values on coins is no better than the clowns who hype the junk on the home shopping channels. They leave a black mark on the numismatic profession and need to be “outed” when they engage in those practices.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
<< <i>But if these people have done their homework, and they have concluded that these coins are worth the money being paid, then I encourage them to have at it and, if necessary, take out a home equity loan in order to grab as many of these coins as possible before the prices really shoot up >>
People should buy and collect anything they want--if ultra high grade moderns take a dive--thats just the way it goes. The owners will still have their collections. I don't think any collecting should be bashed---all that said, if someone takes a bath on supergrade, etc., etc. ($10,000 for 1 point difference) it won't bring me to tears.
A quote from California Numismatics' Rare Coin News, Oct 1- Nov. 28th:
"As a general rule avoid modern issues like the plague. Anything that is made in large quantities will never receive much respect, regardless of "limited production" or "super grade" distinction. And don't forget to unplug your television when those late night shopping channels offer unbelievable "deals" that will never be seen again. Modern proof sets make great gifts but lousy investments, even if you buy them cheap. Why? There are just too many of them around to move up in price."
<< <i>A quote from California Numismatics' Rare Coin News, Oct 1- Nov. 28th:
"As a general rule avoid modern issues like the plague. Anything that is made in large quantities will never receive much respect, regardless of "limited production" or "super grade" distinction. And don't forget to unplug your television when those late night shopping channels offer unbelievable "deals" that will never be seen again. Modern proof sets make great gifts but lousy investments, even if you buy them cheap. Why? There are just too many of them around to move up in price." >>
Sounds like sour grapes. Many of these coins are selling for thousands of times face value and continuing to move up. While the best reason to buy these is that they are a lot of fun, there have certainly been a lot worse investments over the years.
I personally read the quote to be specifically referencing late date modern PROOF coins, although not stated directly. As I have always said, there is a huge difference between those PR69 "party bag" coins and an MS67FS or MS68FB or MS69RD Mint State coin from the 1980's or early 90's - just try to slab one of those - it won't take you very long to understand the distinction has a diference.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Keeping in mind that a conversation about "moderns" without being more specific is just about useless , here goes anyway:
It would be interesting to see how the typical California Numismatics client fared over the last 10 years, as compared to someone who ignored their advice and bought some nice examples of those awful plague-ridden clad coins.
Past performance is no guarantee of future returns, and nothing goes up forever, and you shouldn't buy any coin as an investment, etc... but nonetheless, generally speaking, modern bashers have been wrong -- dead wrong -- for years in predicting the imminent price collapse of condition-rare moderns.
Of course, it's virtually certain there are segments of the modern market (or any market, for that matter) that will, in fact, decline dramatically at some point in the future.
When that day comes, sage forecasters of modern meltdown will be finally be proven "correct". And they will loudly trumpet their predictive prowess, while conveniently neglecting to mention that they were wrong 99% of the time up to that point. And if prices collapse to a level that is still multiples above when they first said they were overpriced, well, no point in mentioning that little detail either.
Tad; Cladking, and Mitch make excellent points. I would only add that a simple thinking of buying pretty coins- Classic or Contemporary, should serve the Collector well. Whether it is a choice, problem free, hard, dove gray VF30 Barber half or a wildly toned SMS Kennedy, buying coins that are appealing and attractive should continue to advance.
I believe there is always room in the beginners box along with the advanced collector's cabinet for choice, neat "wow" coins- whatever the series, whatever the grade.
Past performance is no guarantee of future returns, and nothing goes up forever, and you shouldn't buy any coin as an investment, etc... but nonetheless, generally speaking, modern bashers have been wrong -- dead wrong -- for years in predicting the imminent price collapse of condition-rare moderns.
>>
Curiously the bashing was just as rampant BEFORE any of these coins started going up in price.
In those days when you'd point out that some of these coins were rare the response would be, "So what if they are rare if no one ever collects them". or "No one will ever collect this junk so no one will ever know."
It is kind of like the forecasters who "correctly" pick 10 out of the last 2 recessions. Boy, did they "nail down" and predict properly those 2 recessions
I recently (happily) bought back an MS Kennedy for my "we try harder" #2 ranked MS Kennedy Registry set for nearly $1,000 more than I sold it for a few years ago (and the coin cost was only in the hundreds back then). I wrote that check to the owner simply asking myself what possessed me to sell the MS clad coin in the first place as I knew it would be a good one. I sold (6) MS Lincoln cents a couple years ago for just under $30,000 total for the 6 coins. They are worth (FMV) around $170,000 at this particular moment. Yep - if, and when, they "crash" 50% in value from here, they will only be worth $85,000 and the "experts" will make it clear that those greedy "fools" should have sold when they had a chance because the market was destined to crash and "everyone" knew it. But, as Supercoin mentions, many of these same experts were laughing at these guys who paid the $30,000 to me back then for the 6 cents worth of coins. And, of course, it is not "black" or "white" - collectors have bought coins from me over the years that have dropped in value as well. But, you just never read articles about the "fools" who buy classic coins for too much money - or maybe I am simply subscribing to the wrong periodicals
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Comments
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
> My main issue is with the overpriced modern coin, and my concerns about what will happen to these new collectors if they lose their shirts on these pieces.
Why don't you just limit your concern to anyone buying ANY overpriced coin?
> “No modern coin can ever be overpriced,”
Man, you hang out in some weird places. I've never heard anything remotely like that anywhere.
Why don't you take any bizarre, evil statement and rail against that for hours on end?
-KHayse
<< <i>I give no respect to people who put down what others buy! >>
then why do YOU put down what others buy? oh, i get it, not self-respect.
K S
<< <i>Some people say dont buy the plastic, you,ll miss out on a lot of nice coins! Well, the same goes for buying by the book, you,ll miss out on a lot of nice coins if your afraid to pay more than the book says! Dont let someone tell you what a coin is worth, Classic or Modern, a coin is worth what someone wants to pay for it! >>
A coin is worth in the end what you are able to sell it for. You are welcome to pay nutty prices for a coin all day long. At the end of the day the coin will be sold. That will be the measure of value as there are two sides to the equation.
<< <i>Why don't you take any bizarre, evil statement and rail against that for hours on end? >>
Oh yea? Well check out the responses to the thread that concerned the $39,100, 1963 Proof cent. Any coin person, who has had any experience with this hobby knew that price was insane. Even the person who bid it up to that level finally came to the conclusion that he had made a mistake.
A professional should be ready to step up a make an appropriate comment when something is really off the rails. A few of the modern coin promoters did that here, and I give them credit for that. Others, however, took the low road and tried to defend that auction result as something that was normal and justifiable, when they knew darn well that it was an aberration.
Any dealer who intentionally gives out misleading advice that places wildly inflated values on coins is no better than the clowns who hype the junk on the home shopping channels. They leave a black mark on the numismatic profession and need to be “outed” when they engage in those practices.
<< <i>But if these people have done their homework, and they have concluded that these coins are worth the money being paid, then I encourage them to have at it and, if necessary, take out a home equity loan in order to grab as many of these coins as possible before the prices really shoot up >>
Live Long and Prospect.
"As a general rule avoid modern issues like the plague. Anything that is made in large quantities will never receive much respect, regardless of "limited production" or "super grade" distinction. And don't forget to unplug your television when those late night shopping channels offer unbelievable "deals" that will never be seen again. Modern proof sets make great gifts but lousy investments, even if you buy them cheap. Why? There are just too many of them around to move up in price."
The most I would spend on any one coins is probably 30 dollars(Canadian Funds).
I'm also 20, so in 40 years things should go well.
<< <i>A quote from California Numismatics' Rare Coin News, Oct 1- Nov. 28th:
"As a general rule avoid modern issues like the plague. Anything that is made in large quantities will never receive much respect, regardless of "limited production" or "super grade" distinction. And don't forget to unplug your television when those late night shopping channels offer unbelievable "deals" that will never be seen again. Modern proof sets make great gifts but lousy investments, even if you buy them cheap. Why? There are just too many of them around to move up in price." >>
Sounds like sour grapes. Many of these coins are selling for thousands of times face value
and continuing to move up. While the best reason to buy these is that they are a lot of fun,
there have certainly been a lot worse investments over the years.
Seems like they're starting to get some respect.
That is why I collect.
Dave
In Laurel
MD
In Laurel
MD
Just a fist full of Dollars
Wondercoin
It would be interesting to see how the typical California Numismatics client fared over the last 10 years, as compared to someone who ignored their advice and bought some nice examples of those awful plague-ridden clad coins.
Past performance is no guarantee of future returns, and nothing goes up forever, and you shouldn't buy any coin as an investment, etc... but nonetheless, generally speaking, modern bashers have been wrong -- dead wrong -- for years in predicting the imminent price collapse of condition-rare moderns.
Of course, it's virtually certain there are segments of the modern market (or any market, for that matter) that will, in fact, decline dramatically at some point in the future.
When that day comes, sage forecasters of modern meltdown will be finally be proven "correct". And they will loudly trumpet their predictive prowess, while conveniently neglecting to mention that they were wrong 99% of the time up to that point. And if prices collapse to a level that is still multiples above when they first said they were overpriced, well, no point in mentioning that little detail either.
I believe there is always room in the beginners box along with the advanced collector's cabinet for choice, neat "wow" coins- whatever the series, whatever the grade.
<< <i>
Past performance is no guarantee of future returns, and nothing goes up forever, and you shouldn't buy any coin as an investment, etc... but nonetheless, generally speaking, modern bashers have been wrong -- dead wrong -- for years in predicting the imminent price collapse of condition-rare moderns.
Curiously the bashing was just as rampant BEFORE any of these coins started going up in price.
In those days when you'd point out that some of these coins were rare the response would be, "So
what if they are rare if no one ever collects them". or "No one will ever collect this junk so no one will
ever know."
...And it continues.
It is kind of like the forecasters who "correctly" pick 10 out of the last 2 recessions. Boy, did they "nail down" and predict properly those 2 recessions
I recently (happily) bought back an MS Kennedy for my "we try harder" #2 ranked MS Kennedy Registry set for nearly $1,000 more than I sold it for a few years ago (and the coin cost was only in the hundreds back then). I wrote that check to the owner simply asking myself what possessed me to sell the MS clad coin in the first place as I knew it would be a good one. I sold (6) MS Lincoln cents a couple years ago for just under $30,000 total for the 6 coins. They are worth (FMV) around $170,000 at this particular moment. Yep - if, and when, they "crash" 50% in value from here, they will only be worth $85,000 and the "experts" will make it clear that those greedy "fools" should have sold when they had a chance because the market was destined to crash and "everyone" knew it. But, as Supercoin mentions, many of these same experts were laughing at these guys who paid the $30,000 to me back then for the 6 cents worth of coins. And, of course, it is not "black" or "white" - collectors have bought coins from me over the years that have dropped in value as well. But, you just never read articles about the "fools" who buy classic coins for too much money - or maybe I am simply subscribing to the wrong periodicals
Wondercoin