@Goob said:
They're very interesting coins and the design is decent but I don't plan on buying any of the Trump $1 coins nor the $250 (had I had the money, which I don't )
I'll buy an example of this design when it comes out in pewter.
@gpnyc said:
Imagine getting this worked up over a coin. As has been said: if you don't like it, don't buy it.
A lot of you thought I was being sarcastic, but I am genuinely interested in the intersection of the law with coinage. The U.S. Mint has given us some of our greatest treasures, but it has also done a number of sketchy things through the years and not all of them to our benefit. If you look at my post history, you will see a genuine issue in legal issues related to coins. I didn't target just this particular coin. Some may think I am eccentric, but I do think it is a point of interest to collectors/numismatics.
Legal debate on the facts is a good and proper discussion. Interesting as well. I think we can all learn from it - no matter what side of the arguement you are on.
Personally, I do think the legality is an interesting discussion and should be part of the numismatic discourse. I learned a few things myself from the back and forth and am grateful for the new knowledge.
However, it should be blatantly obvious by now that these discussions, particularly concerning DJT, very quickly go off the rails, and forum members who simply want to discuss the release of the physical coin get punished as either the thread gets shut down completely, or is completely overwhelmed by the topic.
(Edit: redacted some comments to give another poster the benefit of the doubt)
So I will add to the chorus of @jmlanzaf@MFeld and others in this thread and respectfully ask to keep comments focused on the coin’s commercial release by the US Mint, and to take the scholarly legal debate elsewhere. Of course, I fully expect my pleas will fall on deaf ears.
Superb collections are built more by omission than by addition.
I agree, the legal discussion would make an educational thread that should be separate from those having fun opening and discussing their newly acquired coins. Uninformed opinions and assumptions often lead down the wrong road and should be avoided. Good point.
@P0CKETCHANGE said:
Personally, I do think the legality is an interesting discussion and should be part of the numismatic discourse. I learned a few things myself from the back and forth and am grateful for the new knowledge.
However, it should be blatantly obvious by now that these discussions, particularly concerning DJT, very quickly go off the rails, and forum members who simply want to discuss the release of the physical coin get punished as either the thread gets shut down completely, or is completely overwhelmed by the topic.
And let’s not pretend that this wasn’t exactly @cameonut2011‘s intention with this thread. He baited other posters with the innocuous comment below (on the first page), and his real agenda emerged only a few posts later as he immediately began citing dense, fully-formed legal arguments. It was a transparent, albeit effective, tactic.
@cameonut2011 said:
I’m too lazy to look it up. Can someone show me the statute that authorizes these and the dollar coins?
So I will add to the chorus of @jmlanzaf@MFeld and others in this thread and respectfully ask to keep comments focused on the coin’s commercial release by the US Mint, and to take the scholarly legal debate elsewhere. Of course, I fully expect my pleas will fall on deaf ears.
I know why you think that, but I really was just be lazy initially. I didn't actually look it up at that time. The truth is, I had actually started working on a separate thread after that post but just decided to continue in this one as it obviously relates to a $250 denomination gold coin.
I any event, it is not and was not my intent to derail the thread. I genuinely though it germane to the topic. Having discussed it fully, I don't intend to continue the legal debate, but certainly if someone wanted to start another thread I would participate.
Cheers all.
@Exbrit said:
I agree, the legal discussion would make an educational thread that should be separate from those having fun opening and discussing their newly acquired coins. Uninformed opinions and assumptions often lead down the wrong road and should be avoided. Good point.
You are right. I just looked at the title and converted it into a mega thread subconsciously (or perhaps more accurately haphazardly) without focusing on the commercial intent. My future comments to this thread will directly relate to the commercial aspect.
@Schmitz7 said:
Now listed on the mint website. Who will be lining up for this one? No mintage listed yet, but with a denomination of $250 I wonder if it will be priced similar to the Bell shaped coins.
There is no product description up on the website for these, and the FH sliver medal and Trump dollar had the privy part added just prior to release. So until they ring the opening bell, we may not know all the details.
@HalfDime said:
There is no product description up on the website for these, and the FH sliver medal and Trump dollar had the privy part added just prior to release. So until they ring the opening bell, we may not know all the details.
That would drastically alter the calculus as to viability as a commercial product. Most bullion issues are going to be hyperinflated because of the elevated spot price. IF, and that is a very cautious if, there was a very small number (say 1,000), it could create a rarity.
@Schmitz7 said:
Now listed on the mint website. Who will be lining up for this one? No mintage listed yet, but with a denomination of $250 I wonder if it will be priced similar to the Bell shaped coins.
@MsMorrisine said:
buff is $50 gold piece, this will be a $250. i'm surprised it's not $200 more
Why? It's still one ounce of proof 24K gold. The face value is entirely irrelevant.
The only thing that matters is composition, weight, finish, and mintage. TBD whether these will be made in lower quantities than the Buffalo, or whether the premium is 100% a Trump premium, since it's a one year only issue.
IMHO, they are expensive for what they are, given that they are not commemorating an iconic classic coin, and that the exact same thing is available in base metal for $1 from a bank.
If they are not careful with the mintage, they will not sell out. Unless they once again create a privy hunt with them.
And, if they don't look like they will sell out, people will resist the urge to indulge, given the price of gold, and then the premium, when they can scratch their Trump coin itch at a much lower price point. I honestly do not understand why they are even doing this, after they already did the other coin.
@Schmitz7 said:
Now listed on the mint website. Who will be lining up for this one? No mintage listed yet, but with a denomination of $250 I wonder if it will be priced similar to the Bell shaped coins.
What were the bell coins priced at initially?
The bell coins were priced at such a high premium that it was not, and is not, tied to the weekly price of gold. It is priced at around $20K per ounce of gold, and does not move up and down with the price of gold. This is priced on the grid, like everything else. That's how you know that it won't have a crazy low mintage.
TBD what the mintage will be relative to the Buffalo, which is the closest comparison as another 24K one ounce proof coin. Not sure why this one is priced at $100 more.
Maybe it will have a slightly lower mintage. Maybe they think one year only Trump warrants a premium at the same, or maybe even higher mintage.
Maybe it will once again feature a privy hunt that will warrant a premium. As I said, TBD, since that's something they have not yet announced.
250 privy with a 7,500 mintage would put the odds at about 1 in 30 for getting a privy. I think they would sell out for that. If they do something crazy like only 47 privy many may not like the odds.
@HalfDime said:
250 privy with a 7,500 mintage would put the odds at about 1 in 30 for getting a privy. I think they would sell out for that. If they do something crazy like only 47 privy many may not like the odds.
I think they would probably sell out 7500 without a privy. The pricing, though, implies a mintage closer to the 15K of the gold Buffaloes.
Anything at that price would absolutely sell out with a 3% chance to get anything with a mintage of 250. In fact, it would be a 6 second bot led cluster you know what. A million times worse than the Liberty Bells.
That would never happen. History tells us that the Mint knows the premium such tiny mintages would command. If anything with a mintage of 250, or 47, was actually produced, they would auction them.
As they have done before. They would not be included in a lottery for us to obtain at normal issue prices. Even 2K mintage items are now offered at crazy premiums, and are not included in privy lotteries, as they were 2 short years ago.
@NJCoin said:
As they have done before. They would not be included in a lottery for us to obtain at normal issue prices. Even 2K mintage items are now offered at crazy premiums, and are not included in privy lotteries, as they were 2 short years ago.
You say that like you know the mint like the back of your hand.
Odds are the latest comic book gold will not sell over 2000 within a year, and they will go for well less than crazy premiums because few people will want them. (Wonder Woman gold already proves this)
10k here is borderline for this, 15k is too much.
Anyway, you have stretched out your neck to allow the mint to prove you wrong.
@NJCoin said:
As they have done before. They would not be included in a lottery for us to obtain at normal issue prices. Even 2K mintage items are now offered at crazy premiums, and are not included in privy lotteries, as they were 2 short years ago.
You say that like you know the mint like the back of your hand.
Odds are the latest comic book gold will not sell over 2000 within a year, and they will go for well less than crazy premiums because few people will want them. (Wonder Woman gold already proves this)
10k here is borderline for this, 15k is too much.
Anyway, you have stretched out your neck to allow the mint to prove you wrong.
Not so much. Comic books won't sell because people don't want them. Same with First Spouse.
Normal coins are different. 15K seems to be a sweet spot for one ounce gold numismatic product. See AGEs, Buffaloes, BOMs, etc.
When they tried to sell 2K gold Liberty Bells, they priced them at $20K. They failed, but they tried.
The next step won't be 2K Trump coins at $1K above spot gold. No matter how few Supergirl coins they sell.
I don't know exactly what is borderline or too much for this. You might very well be right at 10K. Maybe 12.5K. Maybe 15K.
And, maybe they sell out, and maybe they don't. I would love to know what justifies $100 above Buffaloes.
We'll find out soon enough. I just know that they would have no problem selling 7,500 at $100 more than they sold 15K Buffaloes.
I don't "know the Mint like the back of my hand." But I do have eyes, a functioning brain, and an ability to process what I observe.
I half kiddingly suggested privies would help goose sales and justify a premium over what they charge for Buffaloes, with a similar mintage. You then suggested crazy low pops for a proposed privy that would never happen in a privy lottery, since the number you suggested is right around the amount they auctioned off 2 years ago, at prices exceeding $20K each.
So 250 privies are not going to be mixed in an offering $1K above spot. Period. I do know that. Better than the back of my hand.
@HalfDime said:
250 privy with a 7,500 mintage would put the odds at about 1 in 30 for getting a privy. I think they would sell out for that. If they do something crazy like only 47 privy many may not like the odds.
how about 47 with privy and a COA signed by the Mint Director and the President?
@DotStore said:
I don't think they would do a Privy hunt on these -- it would just invite people to order multiples until they got one, and then return the rest...
Change the return policy. Or charge a restocking fee that can be waived (i.e. in case there is a real quality control issue).
@DotStore said:
I don't think they would do a Privy hunt on these -- it would just invite people to order multiples until they got one, and then return the rest...
Change the return policy. Or charge a restocking fee that can be waived (i.e. in case there is a real quality control issue).
I've always wanted this. The problem is that "real quality control issue" is going to be slippery. Some people return anything that doesn't look like a 70 to them. I doubt anyone at the Mint can tell a 69 from a 70 and 70 isn't their standard.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@DotStore said:
I don't think they would do a Privy hunt on these -- it would just invite people to order multiples until they got one, and then return the rest...
Change the return policy. Or charge a restocking fee that can be waived (i.e. in case there is a real quality control issue).
I've always wanted this. The problem is that "real quality control issue" is going to be slippery. Some people return anything that doesn't look like a 70 to them. I doubt anyone at the Mint can tell a 69 from a 70 and 70 isn't there standard.
A 69 is within the normal expected range of production. Someone who returns a 69 is abusing the return policy IMHO. I'm talking about a major defect, milk spotting, etc. The things that would pretty much destroy the ability to sell it (e.g. anything below superb gem).
@NJCoin said:
So 250 privies are not going to be mixed in an offering $1K above spot. Period. I do know that. Better than the back of my hand.
They might do 2500, and that would be high enough to make more happy customers.
15k mintage with 2500 privy. The odds would be 1 chance in 6.
I still like 250 in 7,500 better though.
Again, with all due respect, I was kidding. Privies go on silver, with much higher mintages. Or base metal coins, with still higher mintages.
With gold, if they don't all get a privy, none do. Unless they are going up for auction. The numbers are too small, and the value of the prizes too high, to suggest otherwise.
My idle speculation really just concerned why these, of all things, would be priced higher than a comparable product, such as the Buffalo. The obvious answer is either that it will have a lower mintage than the Buffalo (very possible), OR, that they think Trump deserves a premium, because, Trump, and/or a one year only release warrants a higher premium, at the same or maybe even higher mintage than other comparable products.
We'll see. But another privy lottery is really just wishful thinking. I'm now sorry I started people down that path of speculation.
@DotStore said:
The product page now has Mintage/Product limits of 75,000
Wow. All I could really say here is "that's a pretty bold mintage limit with gold prices at these levels"
I wondered when the last one ounce gold coin from the US Mint had a mintage of that number or higher....and Google said.......
"The last one-ounce gold coin from the U.S. Mint (specifically the flagship American Gold Eagle) with an annual mintage of 75,000 or higher was the 2019 1-ounce bullion coin, which had a mintage of 108,000.
(Note: Every 1-ounce bullion American Gold Eagle issued from 2020 through recent years has had a mintage well above 75,000—such as 747,500 in 2020, 850,000 in 2022, and 924,000 in 2023—making 2019 the lowest year in modern history at 108,000, which is still comfortably above 75,000)."
My second biggest gripe about the obverse is the gigantic designer's initials, they are almost the same size font as IGWT.
They're just re-using the half dollar reverse?... Could they not come up with some new design?
I kind of wonder if there are even 75,000 active collectors much less that many willing to pay a huge premium over already historically high spot prices for a modern.
@DotStore said:
The product page now has Mintage/Product limits of 75,000
Almost certainly a typo. I don't think they could sell 75K of anything at a $1,000 premium to spot, and seriously think they would not want to embarrass the subject of the coin by having them not come anywhere close to selling out.
Look for an update to something between 7,500 and 15K before release. Because they'd have a hard time selling 75K of these at spot, let alone spot + $1K.
I love this, relatively large mintage and household limit of 1. Should be easy for anyone that wants one of these to get them from the Mint on day one. Should cut down on the complaining about bots and flippers taking them all.
After day one when the household limit is lifted, we'll see what happens!
Comments
How much will these go for on the aftermarket…aka eBay lol!
Successful deals with Weather11am, waverlycoins and Gothat3rs
Anywhere from melt to $25k…. More info needed.
I'll buy an example of this design when it comes out in pewter.
A lot of you thought I was being sarcastic, but I am genuinely interested in the intersection of the law with coinage. The U.S. Mint has given us some of our greatest treasures, but it has also done a number of sketchy things through the years and not all of them to our benefit. If you look at my post history, you will see a genuine issue in legal issues related to coins. I didn't target just this particular coin. Some may think I am eccentric, but I do think it is a point of interest to collectors/numismatics.
Legal debate on the facts is a good and proper discussion. Interesting as well. I think we can all learn from it - no matter what side of the arguement you are on.
Personally, I do think the legality is an interesting discussion and should be part of the numismatic discourse. I learned a few things myself from the back and forth and am grateful for the new knowledge.
However, it should be blatantly obvious by now that these discussions, particularly concerning DJT, very quickly go off the rails, and forum members who simply want to discuss the release of the physical coin get punished as either the thread gets shut down completely, or is completely overwhelmed by the topic.
(Edit: redacted some comments to give another poster the benefit of the doubt)
So I will add to the chorus of @jmlanzaf @MFeld and others in this thread and respectfully ask to keep comments focused on the coin’s commercial release by the US Mint, and to take the scholarly legal debate elsewhere. Of course, I fully expect my pleas will fall on deaf ears.
Superb collections are built more by omission than by addition.
I agree, the legal discussion would make an educational thread that should be separate from those having fun opening and discussing their newly acquired coins. Uninformed opinions and assumptions often lead down the wrong road and should be avoided. Good point.
I know why you think that, but I really was just be lazy initially. I didn't actually look it up at that time. The truth is, I had actually started working on a separate thread after that post but just decided to continue in this one as it obviously relates to a $250 denomination gold coin.
I any event, it is not and was not my intent to derail the thread. I genuinely though it germane to the topic. Having discussed it fully, I don't intend to continue the legal debate, but certainly if someone wanted to start another thread I would participate.
Cheers all.
You are right. I just looked at the title and converted it into a mega thread subconsciously (or perhaps more accurately haphazardly) without focusing on the commercial intent. My future comments to this thread will directly relate to the commercial aspect.
What were the bell coins priced at initially?
There is no product description up on the website for these, and the FH sliver medal and Trump dollar had the privy part added just prior to release. So until they ring the opening bell, we may not know all the details.
That would drastically alter the calculus as to viability as a commercial product. Most bullion issues are going to be hyperinflated because of the elevated spot price. IF, and that is a very cautious if, there was a very small number (say 1,000), it could create a rarity.
How much was the retail price for this, the link provided doesn’t have one listed?
i don't think the price has changed
going to be geared off floating price of gold
I think someone posted that it has a column on the pricing grid, $100 above the one ounce gold buffalo.
buff is $50 gold piece, this will be a $250. i'm surprised it's not $200 more
I did, and it is.
Why? It's still one ounce of proof 24K gold. The face value is entirely irrelevant.
The only thing that matters is composition, weight, finish, and mintage. TBD whether these will be made in lower quantities than the Buffalo, or whether the premium is 100% a Trump premium, since it's a one year only issue.
IMHO, they are expensive for what they are, given that they are not commemorating an iconic classic coin, and that the exact same thing is available in base metal for $1 from a bank.
If they are not careful with the mintage, they will not sell out. Unless they once again create a privy hunt with them.
And, if they don't look like they will sell out, people will resist the urge to indulge, given the price of gold, and then the premium, when they can scratch their Trump coin itch at a much lower price point. I honestly do not understand why they are even doing this, after they already did the other coin.
The bell coins were priced at such a high premium that it was not, and is not, tied to the weekly price of gold. It is priced at around $20K per ounce of gold, and does not move up and down with the price of gold. This is priced on the grid, like everything else. That's how you know that it won't have a crazy low mintage.
TBD what the mintage will be relative to the Buffalo, which is the closest comparison as another 24K one ounce proof coin. Not sure why this one is priced at $100 more.
Maybe it will have a slightly lower mintage. Maybe they think one year only Trump warrants a premium at the same, or maybe even higher mintage.
Maybe it will once again feature a privy hunt that will warrant a premium. As I said, TBD, since that's something they have not yet announced.
250 privy with a 7,500 mintage would put the odds at about 1 in 30 for getting a privy. I think they would sell out for that. If they do something crazy like only 47 privy many may not like the odds.
I think they would probably sell out 7500 without a privy. The pricing, though, implies a mintage closer to the 15K of the gold Buffaloes.
Anything at that price would absolutely sell out with a 3% chance to get anything with a mintage of 250. In fact, it would be a 6 second bot led cluster you know what. A million times worse than the Liberty Bells.
That would never happen. History tells us that the Mint knows the premium such tiny mintages would command. If anything with a mintage of 250, or 47, was actually produced, they would auction them.
As they have done before. They would not be included in a lottery for us to obtain at normal issue prices. Even 2K mintage items are now offered at crazy premiums, and are not included in privy lotteries, as they were 2 short years ago.
You say that like you know the mint like the back of your hand.
Odds are the latest comic book gold will not sell over 2000 within a year, and they will go for well less than crazy premiums because few people will want them. (Wonder Woman gold already proves this)
10k here is borderline for this, 15k is too much.
Anyway, you have stretched out your neck to allow the mint to prove you wrong.
Not so much. Comic books won't sell because people don't want them. Same with First Spouse.
Normal coins are different. 15K seems to be a sweet spot for one ounce gold numismatic product. See AGEs, Buffaloes, BOMs, etc.
When they tried to sell 2K gold Liberty Bells, they priced them at $20K. They failed, but they tried.
The next step won't be 2K Trump coins at $1K above spot gold. No matter how few Supergirl coins they sell.
I don't know exactly what is borderline or too much for this. You might very well be right at 10K. Maybe 12.5K. Maybe 15K.
And, maybe they sell out, and maybe they don't. I would love to know what justifies $100 above Buffaloes.
We'll find out soon enough. I just know that they would have no problem selling 7,500 at $100 more than they sold 15K Buffaloes.
I don't "know the Mint like the back of my hand." But I do have eyes, a functioning brain, and an ability to process what I observe.
I half kiddingly suggested privies would help goose sales and justify a premium over what they charge for Buffaloes, with a similar mintage. You then suggested crazy low pops for a proposed privy that would never happen in a privy lottery, since the number you suggested is right around the amount they auctioned off 2 years ago, at prices exceeding $20K each.
So 250 privies are not going to be mixed in an offering $1K above spot. Period. I do know that. Better than the back of my hand.
I believe it’s in the law same law that authorizes the “dividend” checks
Latin American Collection
how about 47 with privy and a COA signed by the Mint Director and the President?
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700
They might do 2500, and that would be high enough to make more happy customers.
15k mintage with 2500 privy. The odds would be 1 chance in 6.
I still like 250 in 7,500 better though.
That amount would be worth moon money each.
I don't think they would do a Privy hunt on these -- it would just invite people to order multiples until they got one, and then return the rest...
Change the return policy. Or charge a restocking fee that can be waived (i.e. in case there is a real quality control issue).
I've always wanted this. The problem is that "real quality control issue" is going to be slippery. Some people return anything that doesn't look like a 70 to them. I doubt anyone at the Mint can tell a 69 from a 70 and 70 isn't their standard.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
A 69 is within the normal expected range of production. Someone who returns a 69 is abusing the return policy IMHO. I'm talking about a major defect, milk spotting, etc. The things that would pretty much destroy the ability to sell it (e.g. anything below superb gem).
The Mint doesn't promise MS/PF 70s. No buyer should assume a guarantee that a coin will be perfect.
It’s that line which reads : …” life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”. Not law or statute. Freedom. Let’s enjoy what little we have.
Practice makes perfect & nobody is perfect. So, practice being nobody.
Again, with all due respect, I was kidding. Privies go on silver, with much higher mintages. Or base metal coins, with still higher mintages.
With gold, if they don't all get a privy, none do. Unless they are going up for auction. The numbers are too small, and the value of the prizes too high, to suggest otherwise.
My idle speculation really just concerned why these, of all things, would be priced higher than a comparable product, such as the Buffalo. The obvious answer is either that it will have a lower mintage than the Buffalo (very possible), OR, that they think Trump deserves a premium, because, Trump, and/or a one year only release warrants a higher premium, at the same or maybe even higher mintage than other comparable products.
We'll see. But another privy lottery is really just wishful thinking. I'm now sorry I started people down that path of speculation.
When will it be released? What will be its AGW?
November 5th.
.9999 1oz priced $75 higher than what an American Liberty .9999 1oz would cost based on the USM pricing grid.
https://www.usmint.gov/2026-semiquincentennial-president-donald-j-trump-one-ounce-24k-gold-proof-coin-26SQG.html
The product page now has Mintage/Product limits of 75,000
Wow. All I could really say here is "that's a pretty bold mintage limit with gold prices at these levels"
I wondered when the last one ounce gold coin from the US Mint had a mintage of that number or higher....and Google said.......
"The last one-ounce gold coin from the U.S. Mint (specifically the flagship American Gold Eagle) with an annual mintage of 75,000 or higher was the 2019 1-ounce bullion coin, which had a mintage of 108,000.
(Note: Every 1-ounce bullion American Gold Eagle issued from 2020 through recent years has had a mintage well above 75,000—such as 747,500 in 2020, 850,000 in 2022, and 924,000 in 2023—making 2019 the lowest year in modern history at 108,000, which is still comfortably above 75,000)."
My second biggest gripe about the obverse is the gigantic designer's initials, they are almost the same size font as IGWT.
They're just re-using the half dollar reverse?... Could they not come up with some new design?
Collector, occasional seller
At 75K, I don't think they needed to have a HHL of 1
...and on the day before release, Nov 4, the Mint will announce 250 coins will carry a privy.
fka renman95, Sep 2005, 7,000 posts
they might!
I kind of wonder if there are even 75,000 active collectors much less that many willing to pay a huge premium over already historically high spot prices for a modern.
My guess is that the pieces will ultimately settle around 98% of spot, which is what some refiners will pay.
the arts medallions get more respect than that. these will fare better
100+%
why are there so many being produced? 75k is a lot.
Inflation.
(sorry, couldn't resist).
Almost certainly a typo. I don't think they could sell 75K of anything at a $1,000 premium to spot, and seriously think they would not want to embarrass the subject of the coin by having them not come anywhere close to selling out.
Look for an update to something between 7,500 and 15K before release. Because they'd have a hard time selling 75K of these at spot, let alone spot + $1K.
I love this, relatively large mintage and household limit of 1. Should be easy for anyone that wants one of these to get them from the Mint on day one. Should cut down on the complaining about bots and flippers taking them all.
After day one when the household limit is lifted, we'll see what happens!
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700