Fake or not? 20 Dollar 1894

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Eman4671
Eman4671 Posts: 7 ✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

Hello all,

Could anyone help me determine whether this coin is authentic or not?

I've attached a couple of photos, although they aren't ideal, but its the only ones i have.

I'd appreciate any thoughts on authenticity, possible signs of forgery, or anything else that catches your eye.

Thanks in advance!


Comments

  • PerryHall
    PerryHall Posts: 47,752 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    We need better pics but there's nothing that I see that would indicate a counterfeit.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • dcarr
    dcarr Posts: 10,257 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Something doesn't seem quite right about it.
    Is it made of gold ? What is the weight ?

    Everywhere that the fields meet devices, there seems to be a rounding (curvature) of the fields.
    In other words, the delineation between the devices and fields is not as sharp as I would expect.

    I processed the obverse photo for better contrast. There appears to be a die crack from the rim to the bust tip, and across the neck. Also I think I see a small die clash just below the hair to the right of the "J.B.L." initials on the neck truncation.

    Moonlight Mint
  • johnny9434
    johnny9434 Posts: 34,054 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Is that a scratch on the obverse? Just curious

  • BruceS
    BruceS Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 18, 2026 3:51AM
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    color, muted details and MM issues, as others have said. decent looking fake, would be my guess.

    eBay ID-bruceshort978
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  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,046 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Can't tell for sure, but it's sus. I certainly wouldn't buy it sight unseen off of those pictures.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • Eman4671
    Eman4671 Posts: 7 ✭
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    Thank you for all the input!

    I received further information about the coin from the seller, that it is in 12 carat gold, so probably a later replica,

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,132 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Eman4671 said:
    Thank you for all the input!

    I received further information about the coin from the seller, that it is in 12 carat gold, so probably a later replica,

    Please consider editing your thread title to reflect that you have your answer.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • RedRocket
    RedRocket Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Just to add: The arrows intersecting with the eagle's tail feathers on the reverse are odd too.
    On these large gold coins, once you spot even a single detail that is wrong, let alone many as others have pointed out, you check the counterfeit box.

  • cameonut2011
    cameonut2011 Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The color is definitely off. It is not surprising to see that it is only a 12k alloy. I would obviously pass, but if you pursue it as a curiosity, keep in mind that you would get less than melt given the impurities and costs of further refining it into a more liquid/saleable form.

  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,046 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @cameonut2011 said:
    The color is definitely off. It is not surprising to see that it is only a 12k alloy. I would obviously pass, but if you pursue it as a curiosity, keep in mind that you would get less than melt given the impurities and costs of further refining it into a more liquid/saleable form.

    I would be more concerned that it is not solid 12k. I wouldn't touch it as gold. I've never seen a solid 12k $20. Not that that is conclusive, of course.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • BillJones
    BillJones Posts: 35,933 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I didn't like the purple area running through the reverse. I've never seen that on a 90% gold coin.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • Tramp
    Tramp Posts: 989 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    If you're going to bid on uncertified gold, make sure the auction house's T&Cs guarantees authenticity. It's saved my but once.

    USAF (Ret.) 1985 - 2005. E-4B Aircraft Maint. Crew Chief and Contracting Officer.
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  • cameonut2011
    cameonut2011 Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @jmlanzaf said:

    @cameonut2011 said:
    The color is definitely off. It is not surprising to see that it is only a 12k alloy. I would obviously pass, but if you pursue it as a curiosity, keep in mind that you would get less than melt given the impurities and costs of further refining it into a more liquid/saleable form.

    I would be more concerned that it is not solid 12k. I wouldn't touch it as gold. I've never seen a solid 12k $20. Not that that is conclusive, of course.

    I was presuming there was some sort of XRF analysis to arrive at that number as it is awfully specific. If not, then I wouldn't trust it either.

  • MsMorrisine
    MsMorrisine Posts: 40,041 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    don't buy it even as 12k. taking a risk that it's not

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • PerryHall
    PerryHall Posts: 47,752 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    It looks like it's an ex-jewelry coin and it looks like it was heavily polished which would explain the absence of the usual scuffiness and why several here would say that it looks "off". I doubt the eBay seller has the equipment to determine this coin's exact fineness and it's more likely that he was just guessing. A coin collector looking for a common date Liberty double eagle would be better off buying one in a PCGS or NGC slab which are currently selling for only a little over melt value.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • dcarr
    dcarr Posts: 10,257 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Eman4671 said:
    Thank you for all the input!

    I received further information about the coin from the seller, that it is in 12 carat gold, so probably a later replica,

    .

    I thought the color looked off.
    That is why I asked if it was even real gold.

    .

    Moonlight Mint
  • Cougar1978
    Cougar1978 Posts: 10,067 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2026 1:15PM
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    You’re kidding lol. No go for me.

    It seems to have a really poor strike along with other problems.

    Not for me. Don’t like it and would pass on it.

    Investor
  • RedRocket
    RedRocket Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Cougar1978 said:
    No go for me.

    It seems to have a_** really poor strike **_along with other problems.

    Not for me. Don’t like it and would pass on it.

    Multiple conclusions above your post demonstrate this is a counterfeit.
    I am curious as to why if you know it is a counterfeit (and obviously, you do. I mean, how could you not, right?) why
    would strike matter?

  • Cougar1978
    Cougar1978 Posts: 10,067 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Have you shopped it around the bourse?

    Investor
  • Harlequin
    Harlequin Posts: 232 ✭✭✭
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    Definitely has some issues as stated and some of the reverse details seem to be off. Just doesn't look right to me so it's a no-go IMO. 😎

    🇺🇸 Harlequin
    harlequinnumismatic@gmail.com
    Home of the Americana Collection of USA silver coins

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,132 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Cougar1978 said:
    Have you shopped it around the bourse?

    Have you read the posts in this thread?

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • cameonut2011
    cameonut2011 Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @MFeld said:

    @Cougar1978 said:
    Have you shopped it around the bourse?

    Have you read the posts in this thread?

    I would think a dealer like the poster you quoted would know to reject the coin outright. I'm only a collector, but I would never buy the OP coin in a million years as a genuine U.S. gold coin even without the information provided later.

  • cameonut2011
    cameonut2011 Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Eman4671 said:
    Thank you for all the input!

    I received further information about the coin from the seller, that it is in 12 carat gold, so [it is} probably a later replica counterfeit.

    Fixed. We should call it for what it is - a counterfeit. Too many people try to play semantic games with the meaning of replica.

  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,132 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @cameonut2011 said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Cougar1978 said:
    Have you shopped it around the bourse?

    Have you read the posts in this thread?

    I would think a dealer like the poster you quoted would know to reject the coin outright. I'm only a collector, but I would never buy the OP coin in a million years as a genuine U.S. gold coin even without the information provided later.

    Based on a number of his posts, it doesn’t surprise me that the poster I quoted might not know better.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • blitzdude
    blitzdude Posts: 7,723 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Totally fake, and a poor one at that. RGDS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
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  • RedRocket
    RedRocket Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @MFeld said:

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Cougar1978 said:
    Have you shopped it around the bourse?

    Have you read the posts in this thread?

    I would think a dealer like the poster you quoted would know to reject the coin outright. I'm only a collector, but I would never buy the OP coin in a million years as a genuine U.S. gold coin even without the information provided later.

    Based on a number of his posts, it doesn’t surprise me that the poster I quoted might not know better.

    Even if true, wouldn't reading the posts above his quench his thirst for knowledge?

  • lermish
    lermish Posts: 4,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @RedRocket said:

    @MFeld said:

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Cougar1978 said:
    Have you shopped it around the bourse?

    Have you read the posts in this thread?

    I would think a dealer like the poster you quoted would know to reject the coin outright. I'm only a collector, but I would never buy the OP coin in a million years as a genuine U.S. gold coin even without the information provided later.

    Based on a number of his posts, it doesn’t surprise me that the poster I quoted might not know better.

    Even if true, wouldn't reading the posts above his quench his thirst for knowledge?

    He is extremely thirsty but I don't think that knowledge would slake that thirst.

    chopmarkedtradedollars.com

  • MsMorrisine
    MsMorrisine Posts: 40,041 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    i suspect trolling

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • jmlanzaf
    jmlanzaf Posts: 43,046 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @cameonut2011 said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @cameonut2011 said:
    The color is definitely off. It is not surprising to see that it is only a 12k alloy. I would obviously pass, but if you pursue it as a curiosity, keep in mind that you would get less than melt given the impurities and costs of further refining it into a more liquid/saleable form.

    I would be more concerned that it is not solid 12k. I wouldn't touch it as gold. I've never seen a solid 12k $20. Not that that is conclusive, of course.

    I was presuming there was some sort of XRF analysis to arrive at that number as it is awfully specific. If not, then I wouldn't trust it either.

    XRF won't give you the fineness of the core, unless you cut it open.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • RedRocket
    RedRocket Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @jmlanzaf said:

    @cameonut2011 said:

    XRF won't give you the fineness of the core, unless you cut it open.

    Why would you need to cut open the XRF?

  • Cranium_Basher73
    Cranium_Basher73 Posts: 3,826 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @johnny9434 said:
    Is that a scratch on the obverse? Just curious

    I hope to God it's not a pube.

    Throw a coin enough times, and suppose one day it lands on its edge.

  • PerryHall
    PerryHall Posts: 47,752 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Most of the concerns about this coin can be explained by the fact that it's been harshly cleaned and polished and the lousy pics were taken under poor lighting and aren't well focused. As far as it being 12K, I think the seller is guessing. How many eBay sellers have access to an XRF and know how to properly use it? Also, it's very unusual for counterfeiters to target circulated common-date double eagles that are only worth melt value. I think it's real but it's only scrap gold destined for the melt bucket.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • Harlequin
    Harlequin Posts: 232 ✭✭✭
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    Overall, I'm of the premise that "if you have to ask then it's not worth dealing with" 😎

    🇺🇸 Harlequin
    harlequinnumismatic@gmail.com
    Home of the Americana Collection of USA silver coins

  • cameonut2011
    cameonut2011 Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 20, 2026 8:21AM
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    @Cranium_Basher73 said:

    @johnny9434 said:
    Is that a scratch on the obverse? Just curious

    I hope to God it's not a pube.

    Market it as the special Clearance Thomas or Anita Hill edition.

  • Cougar1978
    Cougar1978 Posts: 10,067 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2026 9:23AM
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    It has nice luster but that weak strike….

    Wb a no go for me.

    Investor
  • cameonut2011
    cameonut2011 Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Cougar1978 said:
    It has nice luster but that weak strike….

    It’s not real.

  • braddick
    braddick Posts: 25,183 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @cameonut2011 said:

    @Cougar1978 said:
    It has nice luster but that weak strike….

    It’s not real.

    I'm almost convinced he's a bot.

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