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Fake or not? 20 Dollar 1894
Eman4671
Posts: 7 ✭
Hello all,
Could anyone help me determine whether this coin is authentic or not?
I've attached a couple of photos, although they aren't ideal, but its the only ones i have.
I'd appreciate any thoughts on authenticity, possible signs of forgery, or anything else that catches your eye.
Thanks in advance!
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We need better pics but there's nothing that I see that would indicate a counterfeit.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I don't like the look of it. The surfaces don't look right, the details don't look right, and the mint mark is the wrong style and in the wrong location.
Based on your posting history, I assume that this is another auction item you are thinking about bidding on. Based on this and your previous posts, that doesn't seem like a good idea.
OP Reverse:
.
Reverse of a genuine coin from CoinFacts:
Something doesn't seem quite right about it.
Is it made of gold ? What is the weight ?
Everywhere that the fields meet devices, there seems to be a rounding (curvature) of the fields.
In other words, the delineation between the devices and fields is not as sharp as I would expect.
I processed the obverse photo for better contrast. There appears to be a die crack from the rim to the bust tip, and across the neck. Also I think I see a small die clash just below the hair to the right of the "J.B.L." initials on the neck truncation.
Is that a scratch on the obverse? Just curious
color, muted details and MM issues, as others have said. decent looking fake, would be my guess.
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Can't tell for sure, but it's sus. I certainly wouldn't buy it sight unseen off of those pictures.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Thank you for all the input!
I received further information about the coin from the seller, that it is in 12 carat gold, so probably a later replica,
Please consider editing your thread title to reflect that you have your answer.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Just got here and I see that it has already been determined to be a fake.
One thing that jumped out at me was the fact that it is almost totally free of the normal contact marks that a large, heavy gold coin is prone to.
Just to add: The arrows intersecting with the eagle's tail feathers on the reverse are odd too.
On these large gold coins, once you spot even a single detail that is wrong, let alone many as others have pointed out, you check the counterfeit box.
The color is definitely off. It is not surprising to see that it is only a 12k alloy. I would obviously pass, but if you pursue it as a curiosity, keep in mind that you would get less than melt given the impurities and costs of further refining it into a more liquid/saleable form.
I would be more concerned that it is not solid 12k. I wouldn't touch it as gold. I've never seen a solid 12k $20. Not that that is conclusive, of course.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
I didn't like the purple area running through the reverse. I've never seen that on a 90% gold coin.
If you're going to bid on uncertified gold, make sure the auction house's T&Cs guarantees authenticity. It's saved my but once.
USAF (Ret.) 1985 - 2005. E-4B Aircraft Maint. Crew Chief and Contracting Officer.
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I was presuming there was some sort of XRF analysis to arrive at that number as it is awfully specific. If not, then I wouldn't trust it either.
don't buy it even as 12k. taking a risk that it's not
It looks like it's an ex-jewelry coin and it looks like it was heavily polished which would explain the absence of the usual scuffiness and why several here would say that it looks "off". I doubt the eBay seller has the equipment to determine this coin's exact fineness and it's more likely that he was just guessing. A coin collector looking for a common date Liberty double eagle would be better off buying one in a PCGS or NGC slab which are currently selling for only a little over melt value.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
.
I thought the color looked off.
That is why I asked if it was even real gold.
.
You’re kidding lol. No go for me.
It seems to have a really poor strike along with other problems.
Not for me. Don’t like it and would pass on it.
Multiple conclusions above your post demonstrate this is a counterfeit.
I am curious as to why if you know it is a counterfeit (and obviously, you do. I mean, how could you not, right?) why
would strike matter?
Have you shopped it around the bourse?
Definitely has some issues as stated and some of the reverse details seem to be off. Just doesn't look right to me so it's a no-go IMO. 😎
🇺🇸 Harlequin
harlequinnumismatic@gmail.com
Home of the Americana Collection of USA silver coins
Have you read the posts in this thread?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I would think a dealer like the poster you quoted would know to reject the coin outright. I'm only a collector, but I would never buy the OP coin in a million years as a genuine U.S. gold coin even without the information provided later.
Fixed. We should call it for what it is - a counterfeit. Too many people try to play semantic games with the meaning of replica.
Based on a number of his posts, it doesn’t surprise me that the poster I quoted might not know better.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Totally fake, and a poor one at that. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
Retiring at 55, what day is today?
Even if true, wouldn't reading the posts above his quench his thirst for knowledge?
He is extremely thirsty but I don't think that knowledge would slake that thirst.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
i suspect trolling
XRF won't give you the fineness of the core, unless you cut it open.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Why would you need to cut open the XRF?
I hope to God it's not a pube.
Throw a coin enough times, and suppose one day it lands on its edge.
Most of the concerns about this coin can be explained by the fact that it's been harshly cleaned and polished and the lousy pics were taken under poor lighting and aren't well focused. As far as it being 12K, I think the seller is guessing. How many eBay sellers have access to an XRF and know how to properly use it? Also, it's very unusual for counterfeiters to target circulated common-date double eagles that are only worth melt value. I think it's real but it's only scrap gold destined for the melt bucket.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Overall, I'm of the premise that "if you have to ask then it's not worth dealing with" 😎
🇺🇸 Harlequin
harlequinnumismatic@gmail.com
Home of the Americana Collection of USA silver coins
Market it as the special Clearance Thomas or Anita Hill edition.
It has nice luster but that weak strike….
Wb a no go for me.
It’s not real.
I'm almost convinced he's a bot.