Something different - a DON’T guess the grade thread…
MFeld
Posts: 16,462 ✭✭✭✭✭
For anyone who feels up to it, please post a coin and let readers know what you like and don’t like about it. But don’t show the grade or solicit grade opinions or guesses. Let’s see if we can have interesting discussions about some coins without reference to their grades or values. Am I hoping for too much? 😬
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
7
Comments
I love the crusty color of this coin and that it matches the general patina and feel of my slug. I chose it specifically for the similar vibe and to have both 1852 US Assay issues.
Despite the attractive look, the surfaces are a touch waxier looking than I might like. Conversely, the rim ding doesn't bother me at all and it is not distracting in the slightest.
Under light, the toning is magenta and purple and very attractive, almost reminiscent of the color of a circ cam seated coin. The slightly higher silver content helped bring the colors out more than most federally issued gold coins.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
You sound like a collector who is objective in assessing his coins. That might make you a Rarity 8. 😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I can unreasonably fall in love with a coin from time to time too.
EDIT: Removed reference to pricing of higher grade coin to honor OP's directive.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
Your Rarity rating has dropped to R 5.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I fell in love with this coin the moment I saw it because of the original patina and wonderful obverse crack. After all, as some of you know I am a "crack addict", and I have a great appreciation of "dirty girls".
She isn't perfect, with some small dings and ticks and scars, but those became easy to overlook given her penchant for being everything I love about cracks and original surfaces with grey dirt.
And, as I found out more about the backstory of the coin, I loved the thought of having her here with me even more. I was thrilled when she found a home with me.
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Here is what I know of her history;
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This was part of a six coin lot that Sheridan Downey bought (or took on consignment) in 2018, which he labeled as the Manheim coins.
These are parts of the first note the seller sent to SD over the course of the transaction;
“I purchased the three half dollars in 1975 from the last descendent of the Ensminger family of Manheim. The Ensminger's were prominent business people in Manheim starting circa 1790’s. Samuel A. Ensminger, born 1763, opened an Apothecary Shop in Manheim circa 1793. He and family members, besides being in the drug store business, also were photographers, tinsmiths, surveyors, scriveners, and published The Sun, Manheim’s first newspaper (1841). The person from whom I purchased the coins had a treasure trove of Ensminger heirlooms but almost nothing was sold until she passed away in 1991.
Fortunately, for me, I worked with her husband in a local office, and it was only because of this that I was given
the opportunity to purchase the half dollars. In 1991, at the public estate auction, there were so many items to be
sold - and the sale was so poorly conducted - that local treasures were not recognized and properly represented to
bidders, resulting in history and items being lost. Her 1991 estate sale was a disaster. What should have taken three
days of selling was sold in one day.”
He followed-up with a second message. I really like the last sentence.
“The pictures look great, thanks. I’ll tell you another story.
For a few years I lost track of where I placed the 1824 half dollar but I knew that somewhere among my numismatic items
it will be found. I only located it about six months ago in a coin box with a superb New Jersey colonial cent and some
miscellaneous items. I considered the 1824 slightly less in grade to the superb 1827 and 1831 but I liked the sharp
appearance of the die crack and probably separated the coins for further checking. For a lot of years, my collecting
interest has been the history connected to items. Whenever I acquired an item, numismatic, antique, or Americana, if
there was a story to be preserved, I wanted to record it. To me, history expresses the real value of items."
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This example is an 1824 O-112a, Die State 112.2, r.4+ ... which I will forever refer to as from the Ensminger Family by route of my good friend @lkeigwin
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
In this case, I love the inclusion of the coin’s history and that’s a nice crack, too.
It’s only because I started this thread that I’m not going to flag you for your comments: “ I am a "crack addict", and I have a great appreciation of "dirty girls". 😮
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Picked this off of ebay as a regular 1878.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan MWallace logger7 JWP BruceS bigjpst
JWP
Official PCGS account of:
www.TallahasseeCoinClub.com
And? That’s what you like and don’t like about it?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Per your request.
And this one.
1878 R79
Its nice to get a win once in a while.
I wish it was a higher grade.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
Successful BST transactions with: Namvet Justindan Mattniss RWW olah_in_MA
Dantheman984 Toyz4geo SurfinxHI greencopper RWW bigjpst bretsan MWallace logger7 JWP BruceS bigjpst
JWP
You missed this part:
“…and let readers know what you like and don’t like about it.”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
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But the real question is, does that get me a higher or lower rarity rating?
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
I picked this up at the Denver World’s Fair of Money years ago. When I saw it at Rick Snow’s booth I knew that it was perfect for me. I’d been wary of RB designation on Copper coins and was seeking a Br 1877. I love the wood grain look too!
Mark.
My two posted photos are the equivalent of one of those.....................
.............. Truths that are Self Evident.
At least to some of those who have read some of my posts since 2004.
That’s a very nice looking example. Had you been wary of “RB” designations on copper coins out of concern that they might mellow to “BN”, that the “RB” might not be natural or some other reason?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld, I was concerned that the RB might degrade to BR when I bought this coin years ago. Since then I’ve come around in my thinking and did acquire an 1877 RB that I was comfortable with.
Okay well you would have difficulty guessing the grade of my coin since I don’t have a picture of it and don’t even remember the grade or even the year of the coin myself.
But I will tell you that it was at a show this past fall in Texas. And when I walked up to the dealers table and saw it my poker face was immediately rendered useless as my jaw hit the floor.
I vaguely remember, muttering out something like, can I see that one?
As he reached into the case all I could see was this thick golden orange luster, my eyes rapidly reverberating for flaws I could see none. Right before my feeble fingers grasped it knowing she was way out of my league I grumbled how much?
I didn’t hear him in fact I couldn’t hear anything for a moment as this crowded room went silent.
Quickly and respectfully, quipping nice coin I handed her back.
To this day, I dream of this coin and I can’t remember if he said 17, 46, or 63,000. I think I was so awe struck. I just couldn’t remember any of it other than $10 Indian that looked to be 68.
But honestly, I don’t think the grade would’ve mattered that much had I had the money.
Circling back to my two posted photos. The 1950 half is a Cameo proof according to our host. The 1961 half is a Brilliant proof according to our host.
The subjective, amorphous, ever changing dividing lines between Brilliant and Cameo; and between Cameo and DCAM is irritating and frustrating (while also a source of entertainment, amusement and debate).
I expect the same thing happens with copper (BN, RB and RD) Jefferson nickels (FS), SLQs (FH). Mercs (FB), circulation strike Franklins (FBL), etc.
SanctionII
Part of my anacs photo cert collection. Just has a nice skin about it.
These couple of Morgans serve as a sort of "mini-set" for me because I bought them at the same time, for the same price ($45 each!), I got them graded together, and they graded the same. They also have sequential serial numbers, which is a nice touch. As honestly normal as this probably is, this is so far the first time this happened to me which I really love. They also have similar jet-black rims.
I love how both have sort of different looks. The 1885 being a typical blast-white coin with some minor toning, and the 1886 being a brighter and more reflective (while not falling into the semi-PL range) surfaces!
I don't really like, however, how both are sort of on differing ends of the spectrum of their grade. The 1885 is the nicest of the two in my opinion and has cleaner fields and cheek while the 1886 has slightly worse scuffing overall. But both coins are really beautiful either way that I will definitely still treasure them as a pair.
"Another day, another Collectors Universe forum scrolling session."
- Someone, probably
Like: Crusty, natural surfaces and highlights of colorful toning and struck well with a detailed lions mane and beehive.
Nitpicking- planchet flaw on the rim and slightly misaligned on the obverse, both quite inconsequential for this issue imo.
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I don’t collect Lincolns, but saw this 1909-S VDB in a Heritage auction and couldn’t resist.
I love this lustrous coin for its totally berserk copper color!
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
That’s an interesting and entertaining post, even without pictures!
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I do have a bias that lean into patterns but these Indian Princess motif’s I feel are the bolded Longacre's designs and should rank right up there with Saint Gaudens Liberty on the double eagles.
This piece has a strong obverse with a high relief look and combine with the rotated reverse dies just have many layers of appeal to me.
I’m sure some collectors will shy away from this piece because of the carbon spots, which may detract from its otherwise attractive reddish-brown surfaces. Even so, I think the design’s overall appeal and color outweigh those flaws, especially given the historical context behind Longacre’s 1870 design.
OMG ... My Mother was Right about Everything!
I wake up with a Good Attitude Every Day. Then … Idiots Happen!
A 1909 set of 4 with that look would be awesome.
@retirednow That effect on the reverse is from being struck twice. I love it!
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
It's a 1799 cent with a full, strong readable date! But it's got corrosion. But it's the toughest date in the one a year cent set from 1793 to date.
@BillJones :
The ‘corrosion’ looks quite minor. As you know, that’s a terrific example of a 1799 cent!
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
Picked this one up off eBay thinking it was nothing special, the seller had the reverse flashed in the photos, washing out all the detail, so it looked like a plain silver melt piece. Grabbed it at melt value without a second thought.
When it arrived and I flipped it over, I was genuinely surprised. The reverse has developed this natural bag toning with deep blues, burnt oranges, and purples radiating out from the devices toward the rim, completely original surfaces, and it's beautiful
Perfect for the grade and passed down from my stepdad to me on my 40th. It came from his dad and his dad before him who was a Chicago jeweler.
Latin American Collection
ned an Apothecary Shop in Manheim circa 1793. He and family members, besides being in the drug store business, also were photographers, tinsmiths, surveyors, scriveners, and published The Sun, Manheim’s first newspaper (1841). The person from whom I purchased the coins had a treasure trove of Ensminger heirlooms but almost nothing was sold u
Speakin a Lance, what is he up to?
Don't think I've seen him post lately?
I saw him in April when I was down in Monterey helping the company with a building I did years ago. He was doing well.
I think most people know about his surgery, and some may even know of the recovery process he has weathered. All things considered he was in great spirits and we had a wonderful time visiting on a Tuesday night, eating pizza and sipping bourbon. talking coins and life.
I haven't seen him post in a long time but I think he still keeps up here with some members, events and such.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Early on in my Trade Dollar collecting years, I was under the impression that a chopmarked 1878-CC Trade Dollar was impossible to find. Only 97,000 were minted; 44,000 of those were melted. Only about 400-500 or so exist in all grades today.
But lo and behold, this one appeared raw on eBay about 25 years ago. I was the high bidder and sent it off right away to be authenticated. At the same time, I contacted the California dealer for background on the coin. He told me that he acquired it from a Japanese coin dealer, who got it out of China. Since then, a handful of other chopmarked 78-CCs have surfaced, but I believe this is the last one to come out of China.
I love the history of this coin. A rarity from the Carson City mint that served its purpose as a trade coin in China and finally returned to the United States 25 years ago.
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
This is a fun thread, Mark. Thank you.
It brought to mind "but for" coins meaning one likes the coin "but for" some kind of irritating aspect about the coin. Yet, the buyer initially believes that it is acceptable for one's collection. Often, after a period of time, these issues become a bur in one's saddle and the coin very often leaves one's collection when the pain exceeds the pleasure. I don't think all the coins posted above fit this thread interpretation, of course.
However, I don't think that this coin with it's scratch resulting in a details assignment will hold temporary status in my collection since:
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."
@Catbert That's a pretty nice coin, even if it is a Seated Half.
I love that die state ... crack monster indeed.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Hmmmm.... which coin to choose?
I'll keep it simple. One year type, and fairly common for the type too. Strong obverse and reverse contrast which makes it rather uncommon for the type, maybe among 40 or so that look like this. No idea how many of those survived to the present day though.
Not much backstory to this particular one, but any contrasted 1942 Proofs are scarce to rare. The processes used to strike them were poor, given that the previous medal room employees responsible for the quality of the 1890s and 1900s coins were long since gone. As such, overpolishing was common for these years. Since there was also no process to add frost back to over polished dies as would later be developed, most dies never made it to the point of even striking frosted coins. Those that did were almost never paired with reverse dies that also had frost. However, when this did happen, the frost wore quickly and was gone within the first 100 strikes (my guess). This was primarily because the "frost" was simply the surface of the unpolished die, and the dies quickly wore to the average surface of the planchets.
Thus, the few coins that survive that look like this are rather special. 1942-P nickels are one of the more common types that come frosted (with the 1937 1c, 1939 10c, and 1942 1c). Regardless, you'll have to search a little bit to find one like this.
Coin Photography
I've been wanting a CBH for a very long time, but honestly, this series wasn't even a speck on my radar until I stumbled across a helpful thread (and members) here on the forum. Maybe it was the unique, almost androgynous design of Lady Liberty that initially drew me in, but something about it had a charm that totally piqued my interest. Before this, I was only into Morgans, Peace, and pre33 gold. Now I'm afraid my coin collecting trajectory has done a complete 180 from here on out. Seeing the coin in hand, it made me realize something about the raw character of these old screw press minted coins-- I get it now!
Well, here is my very first CBH. It's an 1822 O-106a (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on the attribution!). I love the crusty perimeter toning that frames Lady Liberty, leaving her central profile exposed nice and flashy. The reverse features a similar band of color around the edge, just a bit thinner, and the luster effortlessly dances across both sides of the coin. If I could nitpick and point out something I don't like, the obverse has a cool die crack going from star one joining all stars-- the toning makes it difficult to see.
(Photo credit: @crazyhounddog)
I'd like to give a couple of quick shoutouts. A huge thank you @crazyhounddog for trusting me and allowing me to be the next steward of this beauty. He has great taste in coins, (even watches and cars) and it was a pleasure trading pleasantries and doing business with him. A special shoutout and thank you to @pursuitofliberty I sent him a PM last year when I was first trying to find my footing, and he was gracious enough to spend time explaining things to me in detail on what to look for. Hopefully this '22 makes him proud
Some non-grade/non-value facts I like about this pattern:
Some facts I don't like:
There are a lot of opinions on what are, or are not, truly original surfaces but this coin has always been one that spoke to me with its dark layered complexity that was clearly acquired over years and years. It simply makes me smile and nod every time I pull her from her box as it delights with hints and whips of multifarious amber and espresso shades. I wish every circulated seated dollar had this look, but one thing is certain, it is a rare level of crusty tone to find on any seated dollar and I have spent a long time trying to find others.
Seated Dollar Collection
@chattermonkey nice coin AND nice post. Glad you're here.
"She comes out of the sun in a silk dress,
running like a water color in the rain...."
@chattermonkey Wow! What a nice thig to say, and really, what a stunning look to that coin. Congrat's!!
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
I know I've posted this coin here various times before. I bought it in fall of 2004, when I had just turned the corner into an awareness of type collecting and myself as a type collector. I had never owned a Bust quarter of any sort before, when I encountered this one at a table where an older gentleman appeared to be liquidating his collection at a small local show. I was in my seventh year as a public school teacher and my self-employed wife had put her business almost entirely on ice to be a stay-at-home parent to our daughter, who was 14 months old at the time -- so paying $60 for an old coin was something of an extravagance in that moment. I mention all that because a part of what I like about it is how it reminds me of that time in our lives. But I also liked, and still like, the even wear, the original-looking color, and just the basic fact of it as not a rare or high-grade coin but nevertheless something a little bit special that presumably ordinary-ish people have been saving and taking good care of for nearly 200 years.
I thought it would appreciated by the majority here to limit the images to coins produced and/or designed in the US.
As for the likes and dislikes:
The surfaces are amazingly original with attractive gunmetal color. The counter marked P G leads to intense speculation as to its purpose. A purpose that will likely remain a mystery.
The dislikes from my perspective are limited to an incomplete story behind the counter mark. It would be an amazing historical artifact if it was related to the Provisional Government.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Here's a coin I acquired recently that has a very interesting story involving NGC, PCGS, and CAC. Love the originality!
Here are Crepidodera's pics...
The G looks double stamped, that's Pretty Good.
@Coinscratch
It does look as if the G was repunched. The P G is large and somewhat obnoxious. That seems to be circumstantial argument that there was some type of intent that extends well beyond personal adornment. This coin serves as an interesting numismatic and historical conversation piece at different levels. I suspect there are collectors that admire the strike and surfaces and are mortified by what happened to it.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
In my Capped Bust half dime journey, I have been blessed with mentors like @Barndog who generously gave of their time and experience and advice (such as "that marriage comes pretty - you can do better than the one you're asking about - patience, grasshopper!") Without getting into specifics, I did a recent accounting for my new financial advisor dude, and found that in 2025 my coin budget was only 12% of what my 2021 coin budget was. I had plateaued in the half dimes - just can't find many upgrades or cherries (excluding the lofty grades which I can't and don't want to afford). They exist - but they're locked up, or snapped up, and one has to be in the right place at the right time.
So in 2026, after ruminating on the "next thing" for me, I find myself dipping more than a toe in the water of Capped Bust dimes. I have owned the Variety Identification Guide (from a kind benefactor, @EastonCollection, via Dave Kahn) for almost 3 years now. I'm finally starting to reach for the VIG and for my wallet at the same time these days! (I even built a dime attribution app on GroovyCoins now: https://groovycoins.com/cbdattribution ) although it's not as detailed as my half dime attribution.
All that to say, I've ogled a bunch of cool dimes lately, and picked up a few. Some of them are cud-bearing late state dimes, from a numismatic guru whose knowledge of ALL Bust coinage is encyclopedic, @BHNC054.
Owing to a newer relationship with another experienced and very helpful specialist in the Capped Bust dime world, I've recently acquired this 1811/09 JR-1 (the only known marriage), and find it fascinating. The 1811 dimes were produced with an unused 1809 die, thus the overdate. But in addition, this coin is full of character, with bulges and wrinkles and cracks - just like any of us old folks get!
So, enjoy, but whatever you do, don't guess the grade!
My hobby website Groovycoins.com, new and improved!