@galaxy27 said:
the pressing question i have regarding yesterday's offensive debacle by the Lions is, how much of it can be attributed to Green Bay's improvement and how much to Ben Johnson's departure?
i watched that game and they seriously looked like the Giants on offense
@Maywood said:
I personally don't believe McCarthy will have a long, successful NFL career, but the 4th quarter of his first game hardly provides anyone to make a judgement on him yet. Realistically, there are three quarters which say he will fail and one quarter which says he will succeed.
Methinks more data is required.
My takeaway from week 1 is absolutely nothing
I have heard a lot of criticism of McCarthy. Most of it that he never had to do anything on the football field because he was always on a dominant team. The logic escapes me, you don't throw the ball all over the field if you're not in danger of losing. That would be football 101.
He also was player of the game in the college national championship game, wasn't he?
After virtually no preseason play, he was able to overcome a poor 3 quarters of play (really bad pick 6) and throw 2 excellent passes for touchdowns and run for another. He also threw a perfect strike to set up a field goal right before halftime.
Something not done in 40 (?) years.
But yeah, he sucks.
Too early to know if he's going to be good, but I'm hopeful.
GO VIKINGS!
He's top 100 in his profession at the very least. As far as who didn't trust who in college... who cares what he did at Michigan... it was a run-first offense and that's a dumb argument. What I've been hearing locally is that his reads are slow (both reading the defense and his progression) and he has trouble throwing the out routes. I think he's gotta show people he isn't a good backup in the NFL. I want the Vikings to do good so I can jump on the bandwagon and yell Skol! all over town as much as anyone - I just don't think McCarthy is there yet. Plus the Packers look good so the Vikings can take a year off and let him develop.
history has not been kind to teams that start a season 0-2
i found an article written last Sept that said between 1990-2023, 279 teams opened 0-2. of those 279, only 32 made the playoffs. 17 won their division, and 3 won the Super Bowl
that's why peeps are tossing "must-win" into the equation when discussing the Chiefs against the Eagles this coming weekend
@estang said:
JJ McCarthy is 64-3 from High School to NCAA Big Ten and now the NFL with 3 championships.
Yet, some think he's "bad"...amusing.
He played at IMG in high school and still couldnt get 300 yards a game. Theyre an elite HS program that operates like a college recruiting around the county. The problem with citing his record is that hes always been on teams so much better than everyone else and every team has relied on the rest of the team other than him being special
@galaxy27 said:
if playing like shit for 3 quarters then turning it up in the fourth and snatching victory from the jaws of defeat in your very first NFL start is trash, i'm ready to go dumpster diving
seriously, where can i find a quarterback like that? i'll pull him out of the garbage and give him a bath
🛀
It was the hapless Bears he was playing against. Let's wait untill they play a half way decent opponent before we deem him as the Son of God!
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
@galaxy27 said:
history has not been kind to teams that start a season 0-2
i found an article written last Sept that said between 1990-2023, 279 teams opened 0-2. of those 279, only 32 made the playoffs. 17 won their division, and 3 won the Super Bowl
that's why peeps are tossing "must-win" into the equation when discussing the Chiefs against the Eagles this coming weekend
the numbers don't lie
I seem to recall it's even worse for a team to start 0-3 to make the playoffs or win a SB.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
@estang said:
JJ McCarthy is 64-3 from High School to NCAA Big Ten and now the NFL with 3 championships.
Yet, some think he's "bad"...amusing.
He played at IMG in high school and still couldnt get 300 yards a game. Theyre an elite HS program that operates like a college recruiting around the county. The problem with citing his record is that hes always been on teams so much better than everyone else and every team has relied on the rest of the team other than him being special
Kind of like Terry Bradshaw when he had a dozen pro bowlers on the team with him?
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@JoeBanzai said:
Kind of like Terry Bradshaw when he had a dozen pro bowlers on the team with him?
Just cause you make the pro bowl doesn't make you a team player. Look at the Browns who have made the pro bowl - but what do they have to show for that?
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
@estang said:
JJ McCarthy is 64-3 from High School to NCAA Big Ten and now the NFL with 3 championships.
Yet, some think he's "bad"...amusing.
He played at IMG in high school and still couldnt get 300 yards a game. Theyre an elite HS program that operates like a college recruiting around the county. The problem with citing his record is that hes always been on teams so much better than everyone else and every team has relied on the rest of the team other than him being special
Kind of like Terry Bradshaw when he had a dozen pro bowlers on the team with him?
I have a very low opinion of Bradshaw and Namath. Slightly higher opinion of Eli but his team carried him to a SB win as well. I wouldnt have any of them in the HOF, I see McCarthy in the same category where he can be a good role player sometimes but if youre relaying on him youre going to lose more often than not. Its technically his second year and if he wasted last year from the injury not learning thats on him.
I also think the Bears and Vikings will both be using a high round pick on a QB in the next 3-4 years
CLEVELAND, Ohio (WOIO) -Browns head coach Kevin Stefanski addressed the media Wednesday morning as Week 2 kicks off. Cleveland will face the Baltimore Ravens on the road Sunday.
There’s a chance that running back Quinshon Judkins could make his return to the field. Judkins did not practice Wednesday, and reports indicate he is meeting with the NFL in New York City as the league continues their investigation. Judkins is expected to be back with the team on Thursday.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
@JoeBanzai said:
Franco Harris, Lynn Swann, John Stallworth, Mike Webster, Joe Green, Mel Blount, Jack Ham, Andy Russell, L. C. Greenwood, Jack Lambert.
In both 1975 and 1976 they had 8 defensive players make the Pro Bowl.
You're comparing this team to the Browns?
SERIOUSLY?
I didn't compare anybody to anything! I was just stating a fact. You ASSUMED I was comparing.
Fact: In 1976, the Browns and Steelers played each other twice, splitting the series with the Steelers winning the first game, 31-14, on September 19th, and the Browns winning the second, 18-16, on October 10th
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
@JoeBanzai said:
Franco Harris, Lynn Swann, John Stallworth, Mike Webster, Joe Green, Mel Blount, Jack Ham, Andy Russell, L. C. Greenwood, Jack Lambert.
In both 1975 and 1976 they had 8 defensive players make the Pro Bowl.
You're comparing this team to the Browns?
SERIOUSLY?
I didn't compare anybody to anything! I was just stating a fact. You ASSUMED I was comparing.
Fact: In 1976, the Browns and Steelers played each other twice, splitting the series with the Steelers winning the first game, 31-14, on September 19th, and the Browns winning the second, 18-16, on October 10th
You did it AGAIN.
I know we're NOT comparing, but thanks for proving my point!
Bradshaw SUCKED in BOTH games, Franco and the defense won the first game with Bradshaw completing 7 of 23 passes.
He was even worse in the second game with a QBR of 42.6!
His backup was better.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
I read "Fact: In 1976, the Browns and Steelers played each other twice, splitting the series with the Steelers winning the first game, 31-14, on September 19th, and the Browns winning the second, 18-16, on October 10th" this in the voice of Dwight from The Office and it works.
Fact: The Cleveland Browns mascot is a dog.
Fact: Dogs bark.
Fact: Woof Woof.
@estang said:
JJ McCarthy is 64-3 from High School to NCAA Big Ten and now the NFL with 3 championships.
Yet, some think he's "bad"...amusing.
He played at IMG in high school and still couldnt get 300 yards a game. Theyre an elite HS program that operates like a college recruiting around the county. The problem with citing his record is that hes always been on teams so much better than everyone else and every team has relied on the rest of the team other than him being special
Kind of like Terry Bradshaw when he had a dozen pro bowlers on the team with him?
I have a very low opinion of Bradshaw and Namath. Slightly higher opinion of Eli but his team carried him to a SB win as well. I wouldnt have any of them in the HOF, I see McCarthy in the same category where he can be a good role player sometimes but if youre relaying on him youre going to lose more often than not. Its technically his second year and if he wasted last year from the injury not learning thats on him.
I also think the Bears and Vikings will both be using a high round pick on a QB in the next 3-4 years
Even having Mahomes or Brady can't guarantee a Super Bowl victory.
I don't care if McCarthy is a HOF talent or not, I would just like to see a quarterback who can help the Vikings win a Championship before I die.
We had an all time great QB in Tarkenton and couldn't get it done because we didn't have good enough offenses around him.
I agree on Bradshaw and Eli completely, not quite as much on Namath, he was damaged goods from the start and probably not going to last long. He did have the talent, but not the knees. Plus the Jets basically dismantled the team immediately after winning the SB.
It's been well documented that even an average quarterback can get the job done on a good team.
I have no idea how good McCarthy is going to be, but the Vikings have finally upgraded their O line to what appears to be an outstanding unit to go along with a great group of "skill position" players.
Flores' defense (#5 last year) looks to be better with some nice additions.
GO VIKINGS!
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@bgr said:
I read "Fact: In 1976, the Browns and Steelers played each other twice, splitting the series with the Steelers winning the first game, 31-14, on September 19th, and the Browns winning the second, 18-16, on October 10th" this in the voice of Dwight from The Office and it works.
Fact: The Cleveland Browns mascot is a dog.
Fact: Dogs bark.
Fact: Woof Woof.
"Listen to me dog before you start to whine, thats side's your's, this side's mine"
😉
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
The style of play from Fran Tarkenton translates very well to the current era, not so much to the time he was playing. As such, he was an outlyer and I think his overall record as a starter shows that. I can still hear my Dad's voice in my head saying "You'll never win with a scrambler" and he was right at the time.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
I will agree with Angry Pringles Man avatar that Terry Bradshaw was possibly an average QB at best. Put Ken Anderson under center and I bet they win even more. There's a MNF game of PIT versus MIN in 1976 that Bradshaw threw for 90 yards with 4 interceptions - it was really, really ugly. I know it was a different era but 210 INTs against 212 TDs, a career 70.9 QB rating is not good.
Time will tell on McCarthy and the first three quarters were hard to watch but most of it was on the play calling and simply rust in not playing for a long time. After that pick six, he played extremely well.
JJ did get named NFC Offensive Player of the Week for his 4th quarter comeback. To say he's "bad" is not a fair statement, imo.
Edited to add: Tarkenton led Vikings were beaten by all-time great, superior/bigger/stronger teams. That said, Tarkenton admittedly did not play well in any of the Super Bowls. Throw in losses in 1975 to the Cowboys and going 7-7 in 1972 after a mess of QBs when he left Minnesota, there were some missed opportunities. He was a gamer and a very good QB. Neither Fran or Terry were 1st ballot HOF inductees.
On the praise of JJ McCarthy and the criticism of Terry Bradshaw:
--- why is it OK to downplay McCarthy having great players around him and say that he just wins after he's played one pro game??
--- why is Bradshaw criticized for being surrounded by great players after a 14 year career and 4 Super Bowl wins??
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
@Maywood said:
On the praise of JJ McCarthy and the criticism of Terry Bradshaw:
--- why is it OK to downplay McCarthy having great players around him and say that he just wins after he's played one pro game??
--- why is Bradshaw criticized for being surrounded by great pla toyers after a 14 year career and 4 Super Bowl wins??
It was a different game back in Bradshaw's day obviously, the brutal style of play goes unchecked when people just throw the Bradshaw sucked thing out there, I don't think he sucked but I don't think he was an all time great either.
Ken Anderson was a better QB but had far less talent around him, Bradshaw had more HOF'ers around him than any other team in football back then.
I say if you put Bradshaw on the Patriots or Browns back in the 70's he wouldn't have sniffed a Super Bowl, but either Detroit or New England QB's at that time probably would have got one had they been on one of those Steelers teams
@Maywood said:
The style of play from Fran Tarkenton translates very well to the current era, not so much to the time he was playing. As such, he was an outlyer and I think his overall record as a starter shows that. I can still hear my Dad's voice in my head saying "You'll never win with a scrambler" and he was right at the time.
No offense to your dad, but you don't win with ANY quarterback on those early Vikings teams. Then Fran gets traded to the Giants, who had become the worst team in pro football.
Fran returns to a Vikings team with a great defense and not much else, (Foreman was pretty good for a couple of years) and gets them to 3 Super Bowls.
The Vikings couldn't run the ball in any of those 3 games and with no great receivers, we lost all 3 games.
Blaming it on a scrambling quarterback is wrong.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@Steven59 said:
And then there's Marino - was he a great QB with bum players around him every year?
Marino's Dolphins had a top 10 defense 4 times during his career. His first year they had the #1 defense and got to the SB. In 1998 they had the #1 defense and got crushed by the Broncos in the playoffs.
He led the offense to 10 top 10 finishes. I don't think he ever had a great running back either.
From 1985-1997 the Dolphins had 10 total defensive pro bowl selections, never more than 2 in any season.
So yes, he had some "bum" players around him every year, or at least a definite lack of good ones.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@Maywood said:
On the praise of JJ McCarthy and the criticism of Terry Bradshaw:
--- why is it OK to downplay McCarthy having great players around him and say that he just wins after he's played one pro game??
>
>
He was called "trash". My response was it's too early to tell.
>
>
--- why is Bradshaw criticized for being surrounded by great players after a 14 year career and 4 Super Bowl wins??
>
>
This has been discussed here many times. Bradshaw's team won those Super Bowls, not him.
Personally, I would be fine with McCarthy being an average quarterback if the Vikings can win even 1 Super Bowl.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@estang said:
JJ McCarthy is 64-3 from High School to NCAA Big Ten and now the NFL with 3 championships.
Yet, some think he's "bad"...amusing.
He played at IMG in high school and still couldnt get 300 yards a game. Theyre an elite HS program that operates like a college recruiting around the county. The problem with citing his record is that hes always been on teams so much better than everyone else and every team has relied on the rest of the team other than him being special
Kind of like Terry Bradshaw when he had a dozen pro bowlers on the team with him?
I have a very low opinion of Bradshaw and Namath. Slightly higher opinion of Eli but his team carried him to a SB win as well. I wouldnt have any of them in the HOF, I see McCarthy in the same category where he can be a good role player sometimes but if youre relaying on him youre going to lose more often than not. Its technically his second year and if he wasted last year from the injury not learning thats on him.
I also think the Bears and Vikings will both be using a high round pick on a QB in the next 3-4 years
Even having Mahomes or Brady can't guarantee a Super Bowl victory.
I don't care if McCarthy is a HOF talent or not, I would just like to see a quarterback who can help the Vikings win a Championship before I die.
We had an all time great QB in Tarkenton and couldn't get it done because we didn't have good enough offenses around him.
I agree on Bradshaw and Eli completely, not quite as much on Namath, he was damaged goods from the start and probably not going to last long. He did have the talent, but not the knees. Plus the Jets basically dismantled the team immediately after winning the SB.
It's been well documented that even an average quarterback can get the job done on a good team.
I have no idea how good McCarthy is going to be, but the Vikings have finally upgraded their O line to what appears to be an outstanding unit to go along with a great group of "skill position" players.
Flores' defense (#5 last year) looks to be better with some nice additions.
GO VIKINGS!
I certainly agree that football is a team game and QBs can get both too much credit and too much blame, but Id sure like my chances if Mahomes or Allen had those weapons lol.
I do like the Vikings roster and I think the Bears will give up on games after watching Caleb miss easy passes like they just did in the 4th, but thats also a risk for the Vikings.
My big issue with McCarthy is that from HS to college to now hes never looked good when hes played a team where there wasnt a significant talent gap between his team and the opponent. It didnt take him very long to throw his first pick 6 either.
I think any average QB can be successful there as long as they keep the pass catchers together. Those running backs are going to have to do a lot of work though if he runs into an elite secondary which is how every coach has always treated him
@estang said:
JJ McCarthy is 64-3 from High School to NCAA Big Ten and now the NFL with 3 championships.
Yet, some think he's "bad"...amusing.
He played at IMG in high school and still couldnt get 300 yards a game. Theyre an elite HS program that operates like a college recruiting around the county. The problem with citing his record is that hes always been on teams so much better than everyone else and every team has relied on the rest of the team other than him being special
Kind of like Terry Bradshaw when he had a dozen pro bowlers on the team with him?
I have a very low opinion of Bradshaw and Namath. Slightly higher opinion of Eli but his team carried him to a SB win as well. I wouldnt have any of them in the HOF, I see McCarthy in the same category where he can be a good role player sometimes but if youre relaying on him youre going to lose more often than not. Its technically his second year and if he wasted last year from the injury not learning thats on him.
I also think the Bears and Vikings will both be using a high round pick on a QB in the next 3-4 years
Even having Mahomes or Brady can't guarantee a Super Bowl victory.
I don't care if McCarthy is a HOF talent or not, I would just like to see a quarterback who can help the Vikings win a Championship before I die.
We had an all time great QB in Tarkenton and couldn't get it done because we didn't have good enough offenses around him.
I agree on Bradshaw and Eli completely, not quite as much on Namath, he was damaged goods from the start and probably not going to last long. He did have the talent, but not the knees. Plus the Jets basically dismantled the team immediately after winning the SB.
It's been well documented that even an average quarterback can get the job done on a good team.
I have no idea how good McCarthy is going to be, but the Vikings have finally upgraded their O line to what appears to be an outstanding unit to go along with a great group of "skill position" players.
Flores' defense (#5 last year) looks to be better with some nice additions.
GO VIKINGS!
I certainly agree that football is a team game and QBs can get both too much credit and too much blame, but Id sure like my chances if Mahomes or Allen had those weapons lol.
I do like the Vikings roster and I think the Bears will give up on games after watching Caleb miss easy passes like they just did in the 4th, but thats also a risk for the Vikings.
My big issue with McCarthy is that from HS to college to now hes never looked good when hes played a team where there wasnt a significant talent gap between his team and the opponent. It didnt take him very long to throw his first pick 6 either.
I think any average QB can be successful there as long as they keep the pass catchers together. Those running backs are going to have to do a lot of work though if he runs into an elite secondary which is how every coach has always treated him
That was a bad pick 6, but I guess there's no good ones.
I'll take our starting 10 on offense over ANY team's when Darrisaw gets back.
Flores' defense looks improved too.
GO VIKINGS!
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
I find the Packers offensive line to be unimpressive… or the Commanders have a sneaky good D-Line. I’m not able to tell the difference.
the Pack are very formidable on both sides of the ball. they've dispatched two of the top teams from their own conference who will try to prevent them from reaching the bowl early next year. granted each time was at home, but guess what, that's where they'll play them again if they keep winning. just gotta avoid the injury bug.
acquiring Parsons was huge. dude is a game-wrecker. on one play they doubled up on him & both Commanders o-lineman unloaded their best shot on him.........the net result was him fighting through it and still making life unpleasant for Daniels
I think the Bears will give up on games after watching Caleb miss easy passes like they just did in the 4th
i cringe every time i read stuff like this from you. such an incredibly weak take, and you go to this well far too often. you're incapable of meting out credit to a player you don't like. instead, you resort to laziness and ascribe it to the other team purportedly quitting. you said you played sports at a higher level, so i know you know better than that. i never did, but i'm here to tell you that i hated losing more than i loved to win. which should give you an indication of how likely it was for me to ever wave the white flag in a game.
trying being objective for once and mention that the Bears were missing arguably their top two d-backs in that game. and as painful as this may be, give McCarthy credit for making plays. whether you choose to admit this or not, he had a direct result in Minnesota winning that game. go watch the frozen rope he unloaded to Jefferson in the end zone on 3rd down when they were down 17-6. that was the type of throw a professional quarterback makes, and it ignited a comeback.
if you watched every snap, which i highly doubt you did, you'd know that the Bears' defense played exceptionally well for 3 quarters. the 4th was a different story, but it wasn't because they quit due to witnessing Caleb miss the mark on some passes. yeah, they went full throttle for 3/4 of the game and generated a lead, but because the offense ultimately stalled and the QB whiffed on some throws, it was time to capitulate. it's such absurd "analysis" that i truly wonder if you sometimes get bored and just decide to troll it up.
With no resolution given in the case of Quinshon Judkins, the NFL apparently is determined to hold the RB and the Cleveland Browns as hostages, at least in the short term. I find it to be an interesting case because it's always intrigued me the way the NFL acts regarding Civil Matters with their "Personal Conduct Clause" which is apparently included in all player contracts. Therein lies the rub and perhaps some other members can shed some light on the topic.
Quinshon Judkin timeline:
--- April 25th, picked in the 2nd round by the Cleveland Browns.
--- May 9th-May 11th, attended Browns rookie minicamp as an unsigned draft pick.
--- July 7th, alleged incident ocurred, Judkins still unsigned and acting as a private citizen.
--- July 12th-13th, Judkins arrested and posts bond, released from jail.
--- August 14th, prosecutors decline to press charges.
--- September 6th, Judkins signs his rookie contract with the Browns.
--- September 10th, Judkins appears before the NFL in NYC under investigation for the July charges.
You'll notice from the timeline that Judkins wasn't under contract at any time before September 6th, the most I can infer is that the Cleveland Browns simply had the "rights" to sign him, nothing more. My question is this: If Quinshon Judkins was not under any NFL contract when the alleged incident took place how is that he is liable under the terms of the NFL's Personal Conduct Policy??
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
I find the Packers offensive line to be unimpressive… or the Commanders have a sneaky good D-Line. I’m not able to tell the difference.
the Pack are very formidable on both sides of the ball. they've dispatched two of the top teams from their own conference who will try to prevent them from reaching the bowl early next year. granted each time was at home, but guess what, that's where they'll play them again if they keep winning. just gotta avoid the injury bug.
acquiring Parsons was huge. dude is a game-wrecker. on one play they doubled up on him & both Commanders o-lineman unloaded their best shot on him.........the net result was him fighting through it and still making life unpleasant for Daniels
I agree on the Parsons read there. He is making up for a lot of the short-comings in the GB secondary with pressure. I read this morning that the Packers had two starters on the O-Line out; Right Tackle & Left Guard. With Watson out and Reed going down with a broken collarbone I think it's going to be a hit or miss offense.
@galaxy27 said:
history has not been kind to teams that start a season 0-2
i found an article written last Sept that said between 1990-2023, 279 teams opened 0-2. of those 279, only 32 made the playoffs. 17 won their division, and 3 won the Super Bowl
that's why peeps are tossing "must-win" into the equation when discussing the Chiefs against the Eagles this coming weekend
the numbers don't lie
wow, i didnt realize 0-2 was that serious. great, now the Patriots really do need to win this weekend!!
@Steven59 said:
And then there's Marino - was he a great QB with bum players around him every year?
Marino's Dolphins had a top 10 defense 4 times during his career. His first year they had the #1 defense and got to the SB. In 1998 they had the #1 defense and got crushed by the Broncos in the playoffs.
He led the offense to 10 top 10 finishes. I don't think he ever had a great running back either.
From 1985-1997 the Dolphins had 10 total defensive pro bowl selections, never more than 2 in any season.
So yes, he had some "bum" players around him every year, or at least a definite lack of good ones.
i may be wrong, but i dont think marino ever played with a 1000 yard back
@galaxy27 said:
history has not been kind to teams that start a season 0-2
i found an article written last Sept that said between 1990-2023, 279 teams opened 0-2. of those 279, only 32 made the playoffs. 17 won their division, and 3 won the Super Bowl
that's why peeps are tossing "must-win" into the equation when discussing the Chiefs against the Eagles this coming weekend
the numbers don't lie
wow, i didnt realize 0-2 was that serious. great, now the Patriots really do need to win this weekend!!
I know one of those was the Cowboys when Smith held out. That team was a powerhouse
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
@galaxy27 said:
history has not been kind to teams that start a season 0-2
i found an article written last Sept that said between 1990-2023, 279 teams opened 0-2. of those 279, only 32 made the playoffs. 17 won their division, and 3 won the Super Bowl
that's why peeps are tossing "must-win" into the equation when discussing the Chiefs against the Eagles this coming weekend
the numbers don't lie
wow, i didnt realize 0-2 was that serious. great, now the Patriots really do need to win this weekend!!
I know one of those was the Cowboys when Smith held out. That team was a powerhouse
I remember some of the players during interviews "Get Emmett back in here"
@Steven59 said:
And then there's Marino - was he a great QB with bum players around him every year?
Marino's Dolphins had a top 10 defense 4 times during his career. His first year they had the #1 defense and got to the SB. In 1998 they had the #1 defense and got crushed by the Broncos in the playoffs.
He led the offense to 10 top 10 finishes. I don't think he ever had a great running back either.
From 1985-1997 the Dolphins had 10 total defensive pro bowl selections, never more than 2 in any season.
So yes, he had some "bum" players around him every year, or at least a definite lack of good ones.
i may be wrong, but i dont think marino ever played with a 1000 yard back
One time, Karim Abdul Jabbar in 1996 he had 3.6 yards per carry and just over 1,100 yards.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
@Steven59 said:
And then there's Marino - was he a great QB with bum players around him every year?
Marino's Dolphins had a top 10 defense 4 times during his career. His first year they had the #1 defense and got to the SB. In 1998 they had the #1 defense and got crushed by the Broncos in the playoffs.
He led the offense to 10 top 10 finishes. I don't think he ever had a great running back either.
From 1985-1997 the Dolphins had 10 total defensive pro bowl selections, never more than 2 in any season.
So yes, he had some "bum" players around him every year, or at least a definite lack of good ones.
i may be wrong, but i dont think marino ever played with a 1000 yard back
One time, Karim Abdul Jabbar in 1996 he had 3.6 yards per carry and just over 1,100 yards.
yes, you are right. that was when Jimmy Johnson was coaching the fins and insisted on running. to the tune of 3.6 yards/carry
I think the Bears will give up on games after watching Caleb miss easy passes like they just did in the 4th
i cringe every time i read stuff like this from you. such an incredibly weak take, and you go to this well far too often. you're incapable of meting out credit to a player you don't like. instead, you resort to laziness and ascribe it to the other team purportedly quitting. you said you played sports at a higher level, so i know you know better than that. i never did, but i'm here to tell you that i hated losing more than i loved to win. which should give you an indication of how likely it was for me to ever wave the white flag in a game.
trying being objective for once and mention that the Bears were missing arguably their top two d-backs in that game. and as painful as this may be, give McCarthy credit for making plays. whether you choose to admit this or not, he had a direct result in Minnesota winning that game. go watch the frozen rope he unloaded to Jefferson in the end zone on 3rd down when they were down 17-6. that was the type of throw a professional quarterback makes, and it ignited a comeback.
if you watched every snap, which i highly doubt you did, you'd know that the Bears' defense played exceptionally well for 3 quarters. the 4th was a different story, but it wasn't because they quit due to witnessing Caleb miss the mark on some passes. yeah, they went full throttle for 3/4 of the game and generated a lead, but because the offense ultimately stalled and the QB whiffed on some throws, it was time to capitulate. it's such absurd "analysis" that i truly wonder if you sometimes get bored and just decide to troll it up.
You can be in denial all you want. I couldnt care less about Caleb and he couldnt hit open receivers over the middle. He wasnt any better than he was last year which is bad. They picked the wrong guy from the draft and the defense got soft in the 4th.
Caleb wasnt good. McCarthy was even worse and the Bears still gave up 21 in the 4th when the defense was either gassed or just gave up from missed passes.
Great McCarthy made one good throw, and he also threw an 80ish yard pick 6 that was probably 10 yards away from Jefferson. At best, and this is being very very generous those throws cancel each other out
Both QBs were bad and yes when a defense that has been lock down for 3 quarters all of a sudden gives up 21 in the 4th theyre getting pissed off at the offense and reducing their effort level just like when Moore walked off the field in the middle of a play last year he was so frustrated with Williams
McCarthy threw as many TDs to Bears players as Caleb did
Comments
He's top 100 in his profession at the very least. As far as who didn't trust who in college... who cares what he did at Michigan... it was a run-first offense and that's a dumb argument. What I've been hearing locally is that his reads are slow (both reading the defense and his progression) and he has trouble throwing the out routes. I think he's gotta show people he isn't a good backup in the NFL. I want the Vikings to do good so I can jump on the bandwagon and yell Skol! all over town as much as anyone - I just don't think McCarthy is there yet. Plus the Packers look good so the Vikings can take a year off and let him develop.
history has not been kind to teams that start a season 0-2
i found an article written last Sept that said between 1990-2023, 279 teams opened 0-2. of those 279, only 32 made the playoffs. 17 won their division, and 3 won the Super Bowl
that's why peeps are tossing "must-win" into the equation when discussing the Chiefs against the Eagles this coming weekend
the numbers don't lie
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
JJ McCarthy, he isn't very good, all he does is win football games. 😆
He played at IMG in high school and still couldnt get 300 yards a game. Theyre an elite HS program that operates like a college recruiting around the county. The problem with citing his record is that hes always been on teams so much better than everyone else and every team has relied on the rest of the team other than him being special
Fire AJ Preller
It was the hapless Bears he was playing against. Let's wait untill they play a half way decent opponent before we deem him as the Son of God!
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
I seem to recall it's even worse for a team to start 0-3 to make the playoffs or win a SB.
Kind of like Terry Bradshaw when he had a dozen pro bowlers on the team with him?
Just cause you make the pro bowl doesn't make you a team player. Look at the Browns who have made the pro bowl - but what do they have to show for that?
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
Franco Harris, Lynn Swann, John Stallworth, Mike Webster, Joe Green, Mel Blount, Jack Ham, Andy Russell, L. C. Greenwood, Jack Lambert.
In both 1975 and 1976 they had 8 defensive players make the Pro Bowl.
You're comparing this team to the Browns?
SERIOUSLY?
I have a very low opinion of Bradshaw and Namath. Slightly higher opinion of Eli but his team carried him to a SB win as well. I wouldnt have any of them in the HOF, I see McCarthy in the same category where he can be a good role player sometimes but if youre relaying on him youre going to lose more often than not. Its technically his second year and if he wasted last year from the injury not learning thats on him.
I also think the Bears and Vikings will both be using a high round pick on a QB in the next 3-4 years
Fire AJ Preller
Here is the difference between a "Professional" Football team and the Browns::
"49ers waive Jake Moody after rough field goal performance vs Seahawks"
"Browns to stick with kicker Andre Szmyt despite Week 1 struggles"
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
CLEVELAND, Ohio (WOIO) -Browns head coach Kevin Stefanski addressed the media Wednesday morning as Week 2 kicks off. Cleveland will face the Baltimore Ravens on the road Sunday.
There’s a chance that running back Quinshon Judkins could make his return to the field. Judkins did not practice Wednesday, and reports indicate he is meeting with the NFL in New York City as the league continues their investigation. Judkins is expected to be back with the team on Thursday.
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
I didn't compare anybody to anything! I was just stating a fact. You ASSUMED I was comparing.
Fact: In 1976, the Browns and Steelers played each other twice, splitting the series with the Steelers winning the first game, 31-14, on September 19th, and the Browns winning the second, 18-16, on October 10th
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
You did it AGAIN.
I know we're NOT comparing, but thanks for proving my point!
Bradshaw SUCKED in BOTH games, Franco and the defense won the first game with Bradshaw completing 7 of 23 passes.
He was even worse in the second game with a QBR of 42.6!
His backup was better.
I read "Fact: In 1976, the Browns and Steelers played each other twice, splitting the series with the Steelers winning the first game, 31-14, on September 19th, and the Browns winning the second, 18-16, on October 10th" this in the voice of Dwight from The Office and it works.
Fact: The Cleveland Browns mascot is a dog.
Fact: Dogs bark.
Fact: Woof Woof.
Even having Mahomes or Brady can't guarantee a Super Bowl victory.
I don't care if McCarthy is a HOF talent or not, I would just like to see a quarterback who can help the Vikings win a Championship before I die.
We had an all time great QB in Tarkenton and couldn't get it done because we didn't have good enough offenses around him.
I agree on Bradshaw and Eli completely, not quite as much on Namath, he was damaged goods from the start and probably not going to last long. He did have the talent, but not the knees. Plus the Jets basically dismantled the team immediately after winning the SB.
It's been well documented that even an average quarterback can get the job done on a good team.
I have no idea how good McCarthy is going to be, but the Vikings have finally upgraded their O line to what appears to be an outstanding unit to go along with a great group of "skill position" players.
Flores' defense (#5 last year) looks to be better with some nice additions.
GO VIKINGS!
"Listen to me dog before you start to whine, thats side's your's, this side's mine"
😉
The style of play from Fran Tarkenton translates very well to the current era, not so much to the time he was playing. As such, he was an outlyer and I think his overall record as a starter shows that. I can still hear my Dad's voice in my head saying "You'll never win with a scrambler" and he was right at the time.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
I will agree with Angry Pringles Man avatar that Terry Bradshaw was possibly an average QB at best. Put Ken Anderson under center and I bet they win even more. There's a MNF game of PIT versus MIN in 1976 that Bradshaw threw for 90 yards with 4 interceptions - it was really, really ugly. I know it was a different era but 210 INTs against 212 TDs, a career 70.9 QB rating is not good.
Time will tell on McCarthy and the first three quarters were hard to watch but most of it was on the play calling and simply rust in not playing for a long time. After that pick six, he played extremely well.
JJ did get named NFC Offensive Player of the Week for his 4th quarter comeback. To say he's "bad" is not a fair statement, imo.
Edited to add: Tarkenton led Vikings were beaten by all-time great, superior/bigger/stronger teams. That said, Tarkenton admittedly did not play well in any of the Super Bowls. Throw in losses in 1975 to the Cowboys and going 7-7 in 1972 after a mess of QBs when he left Minnesota, there were some missed opportunities. He was a gamer and a very good QB. Neither Fran or Terry were 1st ballot HOF inductees.
Erik
Go Bills!
On the praise of JJ McCarthy and the criticism of Terry Bradshaw:
--- why is it OK to downplay McCarthy having great players around him and say that he just wins after he's played one pro game??
--- why is Bradshaw criticized for being surrounded by great players after a 14 year career and 4 Super Bowl wins??
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
It was a different game back in Bradshaw's day obviously, the brutal style of play goes unchecked when people just throw the Bradshaw sucked thing out there, I don't think he sucked but I don't think he was an all time great either.
Ken Anderson was a better QB but had far less talent around him, Bradshaw had more HOF'ers around him than any other team in football back then.
I say if you put Bradshaw on the Patriots or Browns back in the 70's he wouldn't have sniffed a Super Bowl, but either Detroit or New England QB's at that time probably would have got one had they been on one of those Steelers teams
And then there's Marino - was he a great QB with bum players around him every year?
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
No offense to your dad, but you don't win with ANY quarterback on those early Vikings teams. Then Fran gets traded to the Giants, who had become the worst team in pro football.
Fran returns to a Vikings team with a great defense and not much else, (Foreman was pretty good for a couple of years) and gets them to 3 Super Bowls.
The Vikings couldn't run the ball in any of those 3 games and with no great receivers, we lost all 3 games.
Blaming it on a scrambling quarterback is wrong.
Marino's Dolphins had a top 10 defense 4 times during his career. His first year they had the #1 defense and got to the SB. In 1998 they had the #1 defense and got crushed by the Broncos in the playoffs.
He led the offense to 10 top 10 finishes. I don't think he ever had a great running back either.
From 1985-1997 the Dolphins had 10 total defensive pro bowl selections, never more than 2 in any season.
So yes, he had some "bum" players around him every year, or at least a definite lack of good ones.
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He was called "trash". My response was it's too early to tell.
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This has been discussed here many times. Bradshaw's team won those Super Bowls, not him.
Personally, I would be fine with McCarthy being an average quarterback if the Vikings can win even 1 Super Bowl.
I certainly agree that football is a team game and QBs can get both too much credit and too much blame, but Id sure like my chances if Mahomes or Allen had those weapons lol.
I do like the Vikings roster and I think the Bears will give up on games after watching Caleb miss easy passes like they just did in the 4th, but thats also a risk for the Vikings.
My big issue with McCarthy is that from HS to college to now hes never looked good when hes played a team where there wasnt a significant talent gap between his team and the opponent. It didnt take him very long to throw his first pick 6 either.
I think any average QB can be successful there as long as they keep the pass catchers together. Those running backs are going to have to do a lot of work though if he runs into an elite secondary which is how every coach has always treated him
Fire AJ Preller
I find the Packers offensive line to be unimpressive… or the Commanders have a sneaky good D-Line. I’m not able to tell the difference.
Looks like Ekeler might have popped his Achilles......
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
That was a bad pick 6, but I guess there's no good ones.
I'll take our starting 10 on offense over ANY team's when Darrisaw gets back.
Flores' defense looks improved too.
GO VIKINGS!
the Pack are very formidable on both sides of the ball. they've dispatched two of the top teams from their own conference who will try to prevent them from reaching the bowl early next year. granted each time was at home, but guess what, that's where they'll play them again if they keep winning. just gotta avoid the injury bug.
acquiring Parsons was huge. dude is a game-wrecker. on one play they doubled up on him & both Commanders o-lineman unloaded their best shot on him.........the net result was him fighting through it and still making life unpleasant for Daniels
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
i cringe every time i read stuff like this from you. such an incredibly weak take, and you go to this well far too often. you're incapable of meting out credit to a player you don't like. instead, you resort to laziness and ascribe it to the other team purportedly quitting. you said you played sports at a higher level, so i know you know better than that. i never did, but i'm here to tell you that i hated losing more than i loved to win. which should give you an indication of how likely it was for me to ever wave the white flag in a game.
trying being objective for once and mention that the Bears were missing arguably their top two d-backs in that game. and as painful as this may be, give McCarthy credit for making plays. whether you choose to admit this or not, he had a direct result in Minnesota winning that game. go watch the frozen rope he unloaded to Jefferson in the end zone on 3rd down when they were down 17-6. that was the type of throw a professional quarterback makes, and it ignited a comeback.
if you watched every snap, which i highly doubt you did, you'd know that the Bears' defense played exceptionally well for 3 quarters. the 4th was a different story, but it wasn't because they quit due to witnessing Caleb miss the mark on some passes. yeah, they went full throttle for 3/4 of the game and generated a lead, but because the offense ultimately stalled and the QB whiffed on some throws, it was time to capitulate. it's such absurd "analysis" that i truly wonder if you sometimes get bored and just decide to troll it up.
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
With no resolution given in the case of Quinshon Judkins, the NFL apparently is determined to hold the RB and the Cleveland Browns as hostages, at least in the short term. I find it to be an interesting case because it's always intrigued me the way the NFL acts regarding Civil Matters with their "Personal Conduct Clause" which is apparently included in all player contracts. Therein lies the rub and perhaps some other members can shed some light on the topic.
Quinshon Judkin timeline:
--- April 25th, picked in the 2nd round by the Cleveland Browns.
--- May 9th-May 11th, attended Browns rookie minicamp as an unsigned draft pick.
--- July 7th, alleged incident ocurred, Judkins still unsigned and acting as a private citizen.
--- July 12th-13th, Judkins arrested and posts bond, released from jail.
--- August 14th, prosecutors decline to press charges.
--- September 6th, Judkins signs his rookie contract with the Browns.
--- September 10th, Judkins appears before the NFL in NYC under investigation for the July charges.
You'll notice from the timeline that Judkins wasn't under contract at any time before September 6th, the most I can infer is that the Cleveland Browns simply had the "rights" to sign him, nothing more. My question is this: If Quinshon Judkins was not under any NFL contract when the alleged incident took place how is that he is liable under the terms of the NFL's Personal Conduct Policy??
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety," --- Benjamin Franklin
I agree on the Parsons read there. He is making up for a lot of the short-comings in the GB secondary with pressure. I read this morning that the Packers had two starters on the O-Line out; Right Tackle & Left Guard. With Watson out and Reed going down with a broken collarbone I think it's going to be a hit or miss offense.
wow, i didnt realize 0-2 was that serious. great, now the Patriots really do need to win this weekend!!
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
i may be wrong, but i dont think marino ever played with a 1000 yard back
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I know one of those was the Cowboys when Smith held out. That team was a powerhouse
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
I remember some of the players during interviews "Get Emmett back in here"
One time, Karim Abdul Jabbar in 1996 he had 3.6 yards per carry and just over 1,100 yards.
yes, you are right. that was when Jimmy Johnson was coaching the fins and insisted on running. to the tune of 3.6 yards/carry
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
You can be in denial all you want. I couldnt care less about Caleb and he couldnt hit open receivers over the middle. He wasnt any better than he was last year which is bad. They picked the wrong guy from the draft and the defense got soft in the 4th.
Caleb wasnt good. McCarthy was even worse and the Bears still gave up 21 in the 4th when the defense was either gassed or just gave up from missed passes.
Great McCarthy made one good throw, and he also threw an 80ish yard pick 6 that was probably 10 yards away from Jefferson. At best, and this is being very very generous those throws cancel each other out
Both QBs were bad and yes when a defense that has been lock down for 3 quarters all of a sudden gives up 21 in the 4th theyre getting pissed off at the offense and reducing their effort level just like when Moore walked off the field in the middle of a play last year he was so frustrated with Williams
McCarthy threw as many TDs to Bears players as Caleb did
Fire AJ Preller