Looking for expert opinion on a Classic $5
JimTyler
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I could have bid more but based on auction results lower grade never commanded a real high premium. I didn’t want it only to sell it so I quit bidding using my old philosophy I’d rather not but something I should have than bury myself in something I shouldn’t have. Asking someone who knows what this was worth.
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For those unaware, this coin is mislabeled as the common "Plain 4" when in reality it is the much more scarce "Crosslet 4". In my experience these are very, very scarce in problem-free PCGS holders and rarely come up for auction in this grade level. I realize that PCGS CoinFacts is "only" at $2,000 for a VG10, but if I had noticed the coin I might have been comfortable going at least $3,000 as a bid. Ask yourself this; if you want or need this variety and don't have $10k or so to buy an EF or AU, when and where would you find another?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I wish I knew that I would have easily gone $2k I probably had a long way to go to catch the high bidder.
Varieties can be a thin market, so unless many people are searching for this particular variety, it's worth what someone feels like paying for it on a given day.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
It’s a Redbook listed variety, which means completists of every budget are looking for an example.
A sharp-eyed bidder scored a total rip at $1400 all in.
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
Greysheet for Crosslet 4 is $1,400 and CPG is $1,750 in VG10. No recent comps that I can see.
I wouldn’t call it a total rip, basically wholesale price. Though it can be hard to sell Greysheet on varieties - a buyer willing to pay a premium must be found and the coin might need reattributing to obtain full price.
Maybe, maybe not. We can only see that they bid one $50 increment more than OP, and OP didn’t have a clue.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
This is a tough coin. Someone got a great deal
Latin American Collection
@TomB is right as normal. That’s a 3000k + coin, there is an active market for them. I would pay 2500$ no questions asked for it as an impulse buy
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I see you put your bid in three seconds before the end of the auction and the winner two seconds! Given that the previous bid was $1,112, most likely the winner threw a Hail Mary bid.
Don't beat yourself up for not catching that it was the much more scarcer "Crosslet 4" . A correctly labelled XF40 PCGS price guide value of $5,750 sold at GC for $3,500 in February, 2025. Of course there is always thee question of spending that much money on one coin.
Correct, the basal value of this coin is about 2k if it was completely trashed. Im right there with you at $2500 snap buy.
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I was just trying to give props to someone who scored a nice win.
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
Dan, where are you getting $2 or $3k? CPG in VG10 is $1,750 as of today, PCGS price guide is $2,000 - that is best case scenario.
DLRC has an XF40 example for sale at $4,650 right now - significantly less than PCGS Guide and $100 less than CPG ($4,750).
It's a scarce and desirable coin, but no need to inflate the value and make OP feel worse!
Yea, the exact same coin that sold at GC earlier this year.
Guides? What are those? lol
It’s a scarce variety needed to complete the short set, and there’s many collectors who participate in the shallow end who just want a decent example that won’t break the bank. Maybe 2k is a tad high, but definitely 1800+ for a low end coin in G.
Try to find one on the market for less than 2k, the xr40 isn’t really as meaningful here in terms is the “basal value”. You can find a nice 58cac High relief saint for 14-15k, but yet a vf details will be no less than like 8-9. Same thing with Slugs, can get an ok XF for 30-35k but a trashed coin will bring 20-25. There’s high degree of price compression when it comes to rare issues hence it’s a much great value to get those coins that may only have a 50% premium over their “basal” value, but they’re much better original and attractive.
OP will be fine, we all miss coins here and there, I missed this too, but it comes with the territory. if “crosslet 4” was on that label though, the coin would not have sold under 2k w/juice. They were selling for 16-1700 a decade ago, when the melt value was less than half of what it is now. CPG is meaningless when there isn’t any recent data points, I recently paid 14.5k for a coin with a price guide of 13, and a CAC CPG at 12k. I considered that a wholesale price, and it sold to the first collector it was offered to for a modest profit, and even at his price I thought it was a great deal. If you know the market well for a series, there are great arbitrage opportunities if the guides are low. The greysheet/cpg prices will go up or down depending on whether or not there's wholesale bids for them, which is actually a terrible system to rely on, because I'm not going to give away my market knowledge for free and end up having to pay more for the coin as a result.
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Make no mistake though, I do NOT advise collectors buy those basal state coins if they have the wherewithal to spend a little more. Why spend 2200 on a dog when you can spend 3500 and get a really nice coin with much more detail and nice surfaces, but the market does what the market wants to do 🤷♂️.
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A few counterpoints:
1) As gold prices rise, premiums compress in the low 4-figure market.
2) Comparing HR Saints or slugs at $15k+ to a $2k coin does not make sense because 5-figure coins behave differently than low to mid 4-figure coins since they have different collector bases.
Regardless, if a collector can afford a $3k example in VG10, why can’t they afford a $4,650 example in XF from DLRC? Stretching $1,650 is not much for a collector focused on Classic Head varieties - an expensive proposition to begin with.
3) This wasn’t a CAC coin with great eye appeal - paying over guide and market for a generic example makes less sense.
Correct, but it still has an impact on buyer mentality. It's easier to justify paying $5,000 for a nice double eagle if the gold value is 3200, then if it's 2000. Same concept with this, where 2k is only 3x melt. The basal value of a plain 4 classic head is close to $1000, and i've seen au details coins sell for 12-13. In addition to that, 16-17 was the bottom of the market, so even without factoring in the gold value the market itself is much stronger now.
It does make sense, the value is irrelevant. When you have a genuinely rare issue, no matter, the price, there's heavy price compression between grades until a certain point. I had an 1873 open 3 no arrows 50c in G6 that I sold somewhere around 5k .The price guide in XF40 is 7750.
That's what I noted in my comment, I don't understand why and It's not a strategy I recommend. But there are many, many collectors who don't prioritize quality at all, and they just want the cheapest available example. I already said we might have been a little high at first, but I could easily see it going a bit over 2k in auction, and could be retailed for a bit more.
Multiple people in this thread have said that we'd pay at least 2,000 for the coin, I probably would have done 2k before the juice. If you want to disagree with @tomb, @crypto, and myself, who all would have paid $2,000 or more, you're free to do so. But the very fact that we all would have paid more for the coin negates your argument, and I'd say the 3 of us all have a pretty solid understanding of the market. Again, try to find one for whatever the guides say thats available, and If you do then you can sell it to one of us.
Edit- Like I mentioned, "over guide" is an arbitrary number that can change in an instant. The guides mean nothing if the market disagrees. I just put in a wholesale bid on the issue in VG10. I'll revisit the thread tomorrow and we can see what the CPG is, then the "over guide" point means nothing.
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I am not sure how big the premium is on this variety in VG-10. I way over paid for an over graded one (graded MS-62, actually AU-55) to complete my Classic $5 gold set with a coin that didn’t look out of place with the other coins in the set. This coin is just about as rare as the With Motto type which preceded it, which is very tough.
Maybe there is a premium because there is a “rare in this grade” price, but I question how many budget collectors there are who complete a lower grade set of $5 Classic gold coins.
@BillJones
I can tell you from my own experience that the number of budget collectors who are completing this set far outnumbers the number of collectors seeking PQ, CAC approved coins in higher grade. Rare issue in low grades, even when raw, get scooped up in an instant when posted in the Facebook groups.
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$2k is not $3k. Sure, as a collector, I might stretch slightly over CPG to $2k since they don’t appear that often But as @DisneyFan pointed out, an XF sold for $3,500 in Feb at GC and sits in DLRC inventory unsold below CPG.
How are the budget collectors going to complete this set with the 38 C and D standing in the way? If they can afford those 2 issues, they can afford an extra $1,500 for an XF 34 crosslet.
I think you’d be challenged to resell this coin to a collector willing to pay $3,300 ($3k + 10% margin).
It is “the” variety for the set and a redbook notable. Coins like that sell as box of 20s type and simple “I always wanted one of those” and not only to set collectors. Hell some price collector who only wants a type piece but who would be tickled to have a variety is also a buyer.
The price guides mean nothing because VG gold doesn’t exist in quantities to provide data points due to bank cullings in period so most of those prices are formulaic and theoretical at best and out dated guesses at worse. Point is that is a in demand coin that would be the cheapest points of entry for a problem free example in a market where the price gets exorbitant quickly, which is an over populated with collectors portion of the market. The price compression comes from the fact dealers are free to pay up a little because it would be the only one on the market at that level and even if there were only two buyers they would zero in on that coin.
Think of it this way, there might be 5000 Potential buyers for a SVDB but there are thousands on the market at any given time in all ranges so one must market with price. There may only be a few dozen potential collectors who would jump at that but it’s the only one. The market factor many here are failing to consider is the inventory to collective ratio and it is very strong for that coin.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
"How are the budget collectors going to complete this set with the 38 C and D standing in the way? If they can afford those 2 issues, they can afford an extra $1,500 for an XF 34 crosslet."
The same way any collector does, they save up. Then they'll wait for a low grade or damaged example to come available. Perhaps, they may never complete the set all, but the fun part of completing a set is the pursuit anyway, not the actual completing. Maybe they don't find the crosslet 4 that interesting, and want to save as much money as possible there, to alot more to the C or D, but the OP coin is a straight graded PCGS that will fill the slot in the registry (once attributed), so that has value. Like I said, you'd really have to ask them, I can only report what I see. But a coin like that would have people fighting over it in Pre-33 goldbugs.
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Either way a nice win, but it may have been luck rather than skill.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
My 2500$ figure was low retail. Thats what I would pay without batting an eye thinking there is 10% room in it easy in a better holder. A VG8 in a CACG holder would be a 3k coin. maybe 2995
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
It will probably be on eBay in a week for you guys willing to pay big bucks.
A week? wow, I had no idea our hosts attribution service was that fast. 😆
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It will take longer to maximize it, it needs better plastic to get up there.
This is the cheapest on Ebay @ 3k, which would you rather have this one or a CACG VG8 (if it made it) for 2995 with a best offer of 2750ish accepted. I would argue the XF40 for 5K on Ebay isn't much nicer meat wise and worse surfaces wise.
https://ebay.com/itm/166847510485?_skw=1834+crosslet+4&itmmeta=01JV7NW4JWJ6AJDH6DT2Q9A290&hash=item26d8e2f7d5%3Ag%3ADsEAAOSwuctmgKPC&itmprp=enc%3AAQAKAAAA8FkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1cYOyL7fzb9JzqfoYHLLQVjldR9DIw9cZT7GBQfMYuW41oiarOZq9KWfg8DMCfOa0J9GjqI7Aia0K9B2pNzdbS%2Bt4XjLqCwx091qEaYOUfHfKm0UgbRdRCDEcaxqBsnrXScXPmFqWaWLxTpI%2FhuWonAcpDY9qcgSZE%2FY2cvTFb2BHia60qLUO7vIL8vOMJH%2BMi6JoMQfUpPOxD5KiDhlLsgM8R91%2FiZmlAjcmzDRaHVC4ij8iBGAKx%2F2LNj%2F6VeKEBPQhaOgY2OPcEOLp8i2vgaTBbGh1ptCIG6PXgDs8GjfQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR8rJ8PXZZQ&keyword=1834+crosslet+4&sacat=0&relatedSearch=true
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
question has been answered. Thank you.
So if you won the coin would you send the coin back to PCGS for reholdering with the correct variety or to CACG with the precondition of slab at a straight grade only?
True enough.
I mostly wonder, what are the odds of these 3 weird things happening to one coin:
- Someone submits it to PCGS not knowing the variety,
- PCGS fails to notice a hard-to-miss Redbook variety,
- then GC fails to catch the misattribution.
30+ years coin shop experience (ret.) Coins, bullion, currency, scrap & interesting folks. Loved every minute!
I would take a shot at CACG as most random coins have low pops currently so it elevates it a bit if bought for a flip. If I won it like the winner did I would throw it in a box and forget about it for 20 years.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
It might only be two things if GC submitted it.