@Cougar1978 said:
I can’t see a dealer giving away big ticket coins from a junk box. Junk boxes are for moving cheap stuff at keystone (100 pct profit) for cash flow. Helps the dealer pay operating expenses. He may even sell enough to get a nice slab coin. Or have enough money to get dinner at a drive thru on the way home. If they try haggle with you on JB material you might tell them “these are 10 pct off prices marked” or “the lowest the consignor will go.” Gets rid of the tire kickers, low baller trash lol.
Question: What does your post have to do with what the thread initiator asked?
Answer: Very little. And, since you like sports analogies, it was par for the course for you.
I get that you’re a dealer but how about trying to look at things from a collector’s point of view once in a while?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Copperindian said:
The OP has posted a rev pic. In my view, the MM doesn’t look right.
None of the posted pictures are ideal for authentication purposes. I think the coin is fine but nothing’s going to get settled here, either way. In a private message I suggested to the OP that if he has concerns he should show the coin to a local dealer.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I guess I'm curious why a reputable dealer would sell him a counterfeit coin if half of you are leaning that direction. He goes in once a week and buys from him regularly. They know he's a novice but he knows to look for better dates in the 90% bins and trys to get the nicer morgans from the trays when possible. I guess it's confusing both sides. If I'm not mistaken I thought the 1854 S half eaglefound a few years ago was found in a similar way. I could be wrong though.
@Baysideuph said:
I guess I'm curious why a reputable dealer would sell him a counterfeit coin if half of you are leaning that direction. He goes in once a week and buys from him regularly. They know he's a novice but he knows to look for better dates in the 90% bins and trys to get the nicer morgans from the trays when possible. I guess it's confusing both sides. If I'm not mistaken I thought the 1854 S half eaglefound a few years ago was found in a similar way. I could be wrong though.
Some reputable dealers have unknowingly sold counterfeits - it need not be intentional.
Some dealers are thought of as reputable, but don’t deserve that label.
Other much more valuable coins have been discovered in “junk” boxes.
As I posted earlier, you’re not going to get this settled here. Find a local dealer or two and show it to them and/or submit it to a major grading company.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@PerryHall said:
I suggest that you do the ring test. In a quiet room with a carpeted floor, balance the coin on the tip of your finger next to your ear and lightly tap the edge of your coin with a wooden pencil. It should have a distinctive melodious ring. It doesn't prove it's real but at least you'll know it's silver rather than some base metal frequently used to make counterfeit silver dollars.
For a circulated silver coin, I'd drop it on a concrete floor and listen to the sound of the ping. Do likewise with another silver coin. Same idea as Perry's above. That's how I determined a very good fake Trade $ I bought was indeed fake. It fooled many dealers until this test was done.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
@Copperindian said:
The OP has posted a rev pic. In my view, the MM doesn’t look right.
None of the posted pictures are ideal for authentication purposes. I think the coin is fine but nothing’s going to get settled here, either way. In a private message I suggested to the OP that if he has concerns he should show the coin to a local dealer.
Yes.
Just not the same dealer your son purchased it from.
@Cougar1978 said:
I can’t see a dealer giving away big ticket coins from a junk box. Junk boxes are for moving cheap stuff at keystone (100 pct profit) for cash flow. Helps the dealer pay operating expenses. He may even sell enough to get a nice slab coin. Or have enough money to get dinner at a drive thru on the way home. If they try haggle with you on JB material you might tell them “these are 10 pct off prices marked” or “the lowest the consignor will go.” Gets rid of the tire kickers, low baller trash lol.
Question: What does your post have to do with what the thread initiator asked?
Answer: Very little. And, since you like sports analogies, it was par for the course for you.
I get that you’re a dealer but how about trying to look at things from a collector’s point of view once in a while?
I love the coin, congrats on the pickup! Be sure to frequently shop at that location to seek more finds. Especially exciting for the younger numismatist!
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
@PerryHall said:
I suggest that you do the ring test. In a quiet room with a carpeted floor, balance the coin on the tip of your finger next to your ear and lightly tap the edge of your coin with a wooden pencil. It should have a distinctive melodious ring. It doesn't prove it's real but at least you'll know it's silver rather than some base metal frequently used to make counterfeit silver dollars.
For a circulated silver coin, I'd drop it on a concrete floor and listen to the sound of the ping. Do likewise with another silver coin. Same idea as Perry's above. That's how I determined a very good fake Trade $ I bought was indeed fake. It fooled many dealers until this test was done.
This is probably the worst way I've ever heard someone suggest to do a ping test. The idea is to do it in a way that can't damage the coin... Drop it on concrete? You're actually kidding, right?
@PerryHall said:
I suggest that you do the ring test. In a quiet room with a carpeted floor, balance the coin on the tip of your finger next to your ear and lightly tap the edge of your coin with a wooden pencil. It should have a distinctive melodious ring. It doesn't prove it's real but at least you'll know it's silver rather than some base metal frequently used to make counterfeit silver dollars.
For a circulated silver coin, I'd drop it on a concrete floor and listen to the sound of the ping. Do likewise with another silver coin. Same idea as Perry's above. That's how I determined a very good fake Trade $ I bought was indeed fake. It fooled many dealers until this test was done.
The problem is that a better date coin could be fake and good silver.
I would suggest after bouncing the coin off concrete that you cut it in half with metal shears to see if it looks silver inside then take it to a university to have the inside tested for silver then take it to NASA to check the quality of the silver then blow it out on ebay starting 99c and don't put up with the tire kickers.
The above won't solve anything, but at least you will have interesting travels.
If only there was a simpler way to authenticate it, but there just isn't is there?.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
@Cougar1978 said:
I can’t see a dealer giving away big ticket coins from a junk box. Junk boxes are for moving cheap stuff at keystone (100 pct profit) for cash flow. Helps the dealer pay operating expenses. He may even sell enough to get a nice slab coin. Or have enough money to get dinner at a drive thru on the way home. If they try haggle with you on JB material you might tell them “these are 10 pct off prices marked” or “the lowest the consignor will go.” Gets rid of the tire kickers, low baller trash lol.
Question: What does your post have to do with what the thread initiator asked?
Answer: Very little. And, since you like sports analogies, it was par for the course for you.
I get that you’re a dealer but how about trying to look at things from a collector’s point of view once in a while?
Mark, you never expect a cat to bark.
Pat, I expect a cat to bark before that poster pays attention and shows he’s capable of seeing things from a collector’s point of view.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@PerryHall said:
I suggest that you do the ring test. In a quiet room with a carpeted floor, balance the coin on the tip of your finger next to your ear and lightly tap the edge of your coin with a wooden pencil. It should have a distinctive melodious ring. It doesn't prove it's real but at least you'll know it's silver rather than some base metal frequently used to make counterfeit silver dollars.
For a circulated silver coin, I'd drop it on a concrete floor and listen to the sound of the ping. Do likewise with another silver coin. Same idea as Perry's above. That's how I determined a very good fake Trade $ I bought was indeed fake. It fooled many dealers until this test was done.
This is probably the worst way I've ever heard someone suggest to do a ping test. The idea is to do it in a way that can't damage the coin... Drop it on concrete? You're actually kidding, right?
Had an 1875 CC Trade $ which was in the VF-XF range that no one could figure out if it was fake or not, and this is how they determined it was fake. The difference in the ping is much less subtle than the way that Perry Hall suggested.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
Could be an 'O' reverse from a planed down common date genuine dollar cemented to a planed genuine 1895 dollar. A check of the edge for a seam and reeds that don't line up exactly all the way around would be red flags indicating that the OP's junk bargain box find is indeed a possible counterfeit.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
@mr1931S said:
Could be an 'O' reverse from a planed down common date genuine dollar cemented to a planed genuine 1895 dollar. A check of the edge for a seam and reeds that don't line up exactly all the way around would be red flags indicating that the OP's junk bargain box find is indeed a possible counterfeit.
@Baysideuph said:
This is a real story. I'm surprised how many people have said some negative comments. He pinged it weighed it and magnet tested. He specifically handed to the dealer and asked the price even though it was marked.
I have to say "real" or not it looks good enough to buy it off hand, most of all after passing the ping, the weight, the magnet tests. For $26 it looks good enough to take the chance with it and looks good enough to send in. $26 is lunch money and even if a fugazzi, and it would be a pretty damn good fugazzi, its still a real Morgan and worth damn near $26 melted down.
I agree its darn near unbelievable a dealer would make such a mistake but its a krazy world out there and anything is possible. To me the "9" and the "5" just doesn't look right in the date. They are just way off colored. The "5" especially looks stamped over. But I would have bought it too because whatever else it may be it is a MSD and worth the price in silver alone.
@mr1931S said:
Could be an 'O' reverse from a planed down common date genuine dollar cemented to a planed genuine 1895 dollar. A check of the edge for a seam and reeds that don't line up exactly all the way around would be red flags indicating that the OP's junk bargain box find is indeed a possible counterfeit.
An 1895 dollar is worth many times what an 1895-O is, they are also a proof-only issue.
I still think the coin is good and the dealer was just careless. Another possibility is that it came in with low grade commons and no one ever really looked at it. I've heard of at least one case of someone finding a 1901-S quarter in bulk 90%, it happens.
Toning looks odd but it weighs OK... I'd send it into our hosts. I'm seeing VF details and even a "Genuine" holder would make it a pretty good score. A straight-graded VF20 is close to a $500 coin...
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
@mr1931S said:
Could be an 'O' reverse from a planed down common date genuine dollar cemented to a planed genuine 1895 dollar. A check of the edge for a seam and reeds that don't line up exactly all the way around would be red flags indicating that the OP's junk bargain box find is indeed a possible counterfeit.
This has to be the craziest suggestion I've ever heard. An 1895 coin is worth 10x what a 95-0 is worth. This is equivalent to making a fake 1909-S cent by taking an S VDB and replacing the back with a 1910 reverse.
@Greenstang said: Just a kitchen scale says 26.6 grams
Sorry but kitchen scales are useless for weighing coins.
You need an accurate scale to at least 2 decimal points.
The Mint tolerance was more than 0.01 grams. There is generally close to a full 1 gram difference for non-silver counterfeits.
I spent that coin at the smoke shop in Carson City in 1961. I want it back!! Normal pocket carried and commerce used dollar with Levi pocket toning/rub.
bob
Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
@Baysideuph said:
I guess I'm curious why a reputable dealer would sell him a counterfeit coin if half of you are leaning that direction. He goes in once a week and buys from him regularly. They know he's a novice but he knows to look for better dates in the 90% bins and trys to get the nicer morgans from the trays when possible. I guess it's confusing both sides. If I'm not mistaken I thought the 1854 S half eaglefound a few years ago was found in a similar way. I could be wrong though.
.
Looks real. But, like many have said, looks (especially from an image) can be deceiving, and there are a LOT of counterfeits out there (although if that's one, it appears to be a good one).
If real, your Son did very well. I would suspect if that's the case either the dealer (or an employee) made an error, or likely they missed something when asked about it.
If it was a counterfeit it might be a compounded error for how it got in the box in the first place, as if they are really reputable, they'd have culled it out.
.
HOWEVER, someone who frequents a shop regularly, and is a known buyer, may be looked at differently too. Handing something over and asking "How much", may not have the purchase looked at all that closely. Maybe only what is written on the flip, or quoting from which box or tray it came from.
.
Found a lot of better date Walkers, Merc's and Barbers back in the day.
And maybe 30 years ago, at a VERY knowledgeable dealers shop, I was looking through a box of Jefferson Silver Nickels in flips. Relatively cheap stuff overall, for a Wayte Raymond board I had. I picked out several, but there was a gorgeous Gem plus '42 Silver Proof in the box, marked at $7. (I think). That was the about the price of a raw near Gem Unc at the time IIRC.
I laid out four or five I wanted and asked him how much. He quoted me, and then I handed him the Proof separately (purposely). "And what about this one?" I asked.
He looked at it, tilted it a little back and forth, looked at the price ... said $7. (or whatever it was marked at) seems right. That work?
Yeah, sure, I guess, I said (or something like that).
We squared up after I looked at a few more items, but I was stumped, because I knew he looked at it. And I even left it on top of the others before we squared up in case he realized the error or changed his mind.
Did he know it was a Proof? I should have asked him I guess. I didn't.
I never brought it up after, but I was a regular customer at the time AND I almost always asked "How much?"
I don't think he looked close enough to see it (although I personally think it should have jumped out like a headlight as it sure as heck did to me), and probably trusted what the flip said and what the box meant.
It was a Proof. A nice one. Graded at 66 (later, in 2002), so not a real huge score, but a nice find. Probably more like a $75. to $90. raw coin at the time I purchased it IIRC.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Comments
Question: What does your post have to do with what the thread initiator asked?
Answer: Very little. And, since you like sports analogies, it was par for the course for you.
I get that you’re a dealer but how about trying to look at things from a collector’s point of view once in a while?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The OP has posted a rev pic. In my view, the MM doesn’t look right.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Nickelodeon
new pictures on bottom of page 1
Send it to our host so we can all rest easy knowing the true outcome.
None of the posted pictures are ideal for authentication purposes. I think the coin is fine but nothing’s going to get settled here, either way. In a private message I suggested to the OP that if he has concerns he should show the coin to a local dealer.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The strange thing to me is the date. You don’t need to look at the mint mark to know an 1895 is valuable. What kind of dealer misses that?
Smitten with DBLCs.
I guess I'm curious why a reputable dealer would sell him a counterfeit coin if half of you are leaning that direction. He goes in once a week and buys from him regularly. They know he's a novice but he knows to look for better dates in the 90% bins and trys to get the nicer morgans from the trays when possible. I guess it's confusing both sides. If I'm not mistaken I thought the 1854 S half eaglefound a few years ago was found in a similar way. I could be wrong though.
Some reputable dealers have unknowingly sold counterfeits - it need not be intentional.
Some dealers are thought of as reputable, but don’t deserve that label.
Other much more valuable coins have been discovered in “junk” boxes.
As I posted earlier, you’re not going to get this settled here. Find a local dealer or two and show it to them and/or submit it to a major grading company.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
For a circulated silver coin, I'd drop it on a concrete floor and listen to the sound of the ping. Do likewise with another silver coin. Same idea as Perry's above. That's how I determined a very good fake Trade $ I bought was indeed fake. It fooled many dealers until this test was done.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Yes.
Just not the same dealer your son purchased it from.
peacockcoins
The was a rare US coin or pattern found in a French flea market.
Anything is possible
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
Mark, you never expect a cat to bark.
peacockcoins
I love the coin, congrats on the pickup! Be sure to frequently shop at that location to seek more finds. Especially exciting for the younger numismatist!
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you" Matthew 6:33. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.
BHNC #AN-10
JRCS #1606
This is probably the worst way I've ever heard someone suggest to do a ping test. The idea is to do it in a way that can't damage the coin... Drop it on concrete? You're actually kidding, right?
Collector, occasional seller
The problem is that a better date coin could be fake and good silver.
As I've posted before, the "unum"looks crooked. But I'm still 50/50 on authenticity.
This coin, even if a common date, would not be in a "cull" bucket. It's not a cull.
Assuming the story passes the smell test I am with @MFeld.
I would suggest after bouncing the coin off concrete that you cut it in half with metal shears to see if it looks silver inside then take it to a university to have the inside tested for silver then take it to NASA to check the quality of the silver then blow it out on ebay starting 99c and don't put up with the tire kickers.
The above won't solve anything, but at least you will have interesting travels.
If only there was a simpler way to authenticate it, but there just isn't is there?.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Pat, I expect a cat to bark before that poster pays attention and shows he’s capable of seeing things from a collector’s point of view.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Those pics aren't doing it any justice, that wear pattern is a little suspicious.
Had an 1875 CC Trade $ which was in the VF-XF range that no one could figure out if it was fake or not, and this is how they determined it was fake. The difference in the ping is much less subtle than the way that Perry Hall suggested.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Could be an 'O' reverse from a planed down common date genuine dollar cemented to a planed genuine 1895 dollar. A check of the edge for a seam and reeds that don't line up exactly all the way around would be red flags indicating that the OP's junk bargain box find is indeed a possible counterfeit.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
The date is all wrong..... To strong for the grade... But I hope I am wrong but I would have passed on it....
wha's the dollar value of a details real coin? what's the value of a straight graded real coin?
i'm going - is it worth it to send in?
Yes it's worth sending in.
In fact, I think it will straight grade.
I have to say "real" or not it looks good enough to buy it off hand, most of all after passing the ping, the weight, the magnet tests. For $26 it looks good enough to take the chance with it and looks good enough to send in. $26 is lunch money and even if a fugazzi, and it would be a pretty damn good fugazzi, its still a real Morgan and worth damn near $26 melted down.
I agree its darn near unbelievable a dealer would make such a mistake but its a krazy world out there and anything is possible. To me the "9" and the "5" just doesn't look right in the date. They are just way off colored. The "5" especially looks stamped over. But I would have bought it too because whatever else it may be it is a MSD and worth the price in silver alone.
An 1895 dollar is worth many times what an 1895-O is, they are also a proof-only issue.
I still think the coin is good and the dealer was just careless. Another possibility is that it came in with low grade commons and no one ever really looked at it. I've heard of at least one case of someone finding a 1901-S quarter in bulk 90%, it happens.
Collector, occasional seller
Toning looks odd but it weighs OK... I'd send it into our hosts. I'm seeing VF details and even a "Genuine" holder would make it a pretty good score. A straight-graded VF20 is close to a $500 coin...
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
This has to be the craziest suggestion I've ever heard. An 1895 coin is worth 10x what a 95-0 is worth. This is equivalent to making a fake 1909-S cent by taking an S VDB and replacing the back with a 1910 reverse.
Just a kitchen scale says 26.6 grams
Sorry but kitchen scales are useless for weighing coins.
You need an accurate scale to at least 2 decimal points.
The Mint tolerance was more than 0.01 grams. There is generally close to a full 1 gram difference for non-silver counterfeits.
send it in
Update?
The dealer who put this in his junk box needs serious help....Possibly a $350 coin sold for less than a tenth of that.
I spent that coin at the smoke shop in Carson City in 1961. I want it back!! Normal pocket carried and commerce used dollar with Levi pocket toning/rub.
bob
.
Looks real. But, like many have said, looks (especially from an image) can be deceiving, and there are a LOT of counterfeits out there (although if that's one, it appears to be a good one).
If real, your Son did very well. I would suspect if that's the case either the dealer (or an employee) made an error, or likely they missed something when asked about it.
If it was a counterfeit it might be a compounded error for how it got in the box in the first place, as if they are really reputable, they'd have culled it out.
.
HOWEVER, someone who frequents a shop regularly, and is a known buyer, may be looked at differently too. Handing something over and asking "How much", may not have the purchase looked at all that closely. Maybe only what is written on the flip, or quoting from which box or tray it came from.
.
Found a lot of better date Walkers, Merc's and Barbers back in the day.
And maybe 30 years ago, at a VERY knowledgeable dealers shop, I was looking through a box of Jefferson Silver Nickels in flips. Relatively cheap stuff overall, for a Wayte Raymond board I had. I picked out several, but there was a gorgeous Gem plus '42 Silver Proof in the box, marked at $7. (I think). That was the about the price of a raw near Gem Unc at the time IIRC.
I laid out four or five I wanted and asked him how much. He quoted me, and then I handed him the Proof separately (purposely). "And what about this one?" I asked.
He looked at it, tilted it a little back and forth, looked at the price ... said $7. (or whatever it was marked at) seems right. That work?
Yeah, sure, I guess, I said (or something like that).
We squared up after I looked at a few more items, but I was stumped, because I knew he looked at it. And I even left it on top of the others before we squared up in case he realized the error or changed his mind.
Did he know it was a Proof? I should have asked him I guess. I didn't.
I never brought it up after, but I was a regular customer at the time AND I almost always asked "How much?"
I don't think he looked close enough to see it (although I personally think it should have jumped out like a headlight as it sure as heck did to me), and probably trusted what the flip said and what the box meant.
It was a Proof. A nice one. Graded at 66 (later, in 2002), so not a real huge score, but a nice find. Probably more like a $75. to $90. raw coin at the time I purchased it IIRC.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242