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What caused the damage on this Lincoln cent?

SaamSaam Posts: 606 ✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

I have several coins with this damage. Hopefully someone can tell me what caused it. My guess is that the feeder fingers damaged the planchet, but not sure. Thanks!

Comments

  • Clackamas1Clackamas1 Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The die was gouged. That is a cool find.

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,869 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Mechanical aggression.

    peacockcoins

  • ToreyTorey Posts: 364 ✭✭✭✭

    Are the others exact?

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  • goodmoney4badmoneygoodmoney4badmoney Posts: 1,299 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I’m in agreement with Clakamas1, looks like die damage to me.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 36,029 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2025 6:41PM

    do the areas stick up off the field or sunken into them?

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  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 6,691 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Those 2 pics are same coin right?

  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 8,237 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My first thought was feeder finger damage and planchet flaw.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • SaamSaam Posts: 606 ✭✭✭✭

    Both pics are of the same coin but with different light. The distorted area left of the date is lower than it should be, like a gouge and the striations on the left and right of Lincoln's head look like scratches.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 36,029 ✭✭✭✭✭

    the indent is likely from a strike through. i'll let others explain the parallel lines

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  • CoinHunter4CoinHunter4 Posts: 411 ✭✭✭✭

    Looks like a strike through to me/

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  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 36,029 ✭✭✭✭✭

    how many do you have with the strike through?

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  • SaamSaam Posts: 606 ✭✭✭✭

    I have two of these coins and both have the same marks. Although you can't see it in the pictures, the same striations/scratches on the left and right of Lincoln's face are also between Lincoln's eye and his nose. I do recall seeing these same striations/scratches on some 2007 Washington dollars when they first came out, which I thought at the time were feeder finger marks. Since the marks on these coins are incuse wouldn't that mean there was something between the die and the planchet when the coin was struck?

  • Aegis3Aegis3 Posts: 2,915 ✭✭✭

    It's an intriguing coin. I do side in the "die scraped, likely by feeding finger, and strike through." My intrigue is in the strike through... Is it possible that this was the first coin (or nearly so) struck after the scraping happened? That perhaps struck through die of feeder finger debris...

    --

    Ed. S.

    (EJS)
  • PickinndGrinninPickinndGrinnin Posts: 236 ✭✭✭

    Fully agree with feeder finger.

  • Morgan WhiteMorgan White Posts: 9,491 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Saam said:
    I have two of these coins and both have the same marks. Although you can't see it in the pictures, the same striations/scratches on the left and right of Lincoln's face are also between Lincoln's eye and his nose. I do recall seeing these same striations/scratches on some 2007 Washington dollars when they first came out, which I thought at the time were feeder finger marks. Since the marks on these coins are incuse wouldn't that mean there was something between the die and the planchet when the coin was struck?

    That being the case, it would have to be some type of strike through.

  • Robot1010Robot1010 Posts: 263 ✭✭✭

    I think those are being called field restricted strike through. Something to do with the feeder finger, debris and grease

  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,930 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2025 9:38PM

    Feeder finger scrapes, imo (on the die)

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • Steven59Steven59 Posts: 10,105 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "My guess is that the feeder fingers damaged the planchet, "
    Feeder fingers damage the anvil die not the planchet itself. Once the die is damaged the rest of the coins coming off of it will have those marks on the surface.

    "When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 36,029 ✭✭✭✭✭

    thanks fw!

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  • SaamSaam Posts: 606 ✭✭✭✭

    Thanks to everyone! I appreciate all the information. Now I need to decide if it's worth being graded as an error.

  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,930 ✭✭✭✭✭

    IMO, it’s not….

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • SaamSaam Posts: 606 ✭✭✭✭

    Fred, what is IMO?

  • FredWeinbergFredWeinberg Posts: 5,930 ✭✭✭✭✭

    “In my opinion’

    Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
  • JBKJBK Posts: 16,475 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @4Redisin said:

    @FredWeinberg said:
    “In my opinion’

    Your reputation should be the final word but this time I don't agree. I have seen a similar Lincoln coin probably with a different date - which I don't remember. If a coin is damaged by the Mint when it is made, I believe it should be classified as a Mint Error. I understand that the streaks have been attributed to feed fingers, but the hollowed-out area is some kind of strike through. IMO, there had to be some debris on the die to cause the depression and its orientation suggests it was made at the same time as the scrapes.

    PS I apologize if I misunderstood your post and we are actually in agreement.

    It sounds like you don't understand what feeder finger damage is, assuming I am reading your comment the way you intended.

    As has already been noted above in the thread, feeder finger damage is to the die. A struck-through would impact the individual coin (although there have been cases of apparent stuck debris on the die which caused a similar anomaly in a few coins).

    The feeder finger damage could have been created many thousands of coins before this one was struck.

  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    My thought is the planchet was damaged before the coin was struck. The dies were not deep enough to flatten it out. The area under Lincoln's beard looks like a lamination.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • JBKJBK Posts: 16,475 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2025 9:52AM

    @4Redisin said:

    @JBK said:

    @4Redisin said:

    @FredWeinberg said:
    “In my opinion’

    Your reputation should be the final word but this time I don't agree. I have seen a similar Lincoln coin probably with a different date - which I don't remember. If a coin is damaged by the Mint when it is made, I believe it should be classified as a Mint Error. I understand that the streaks have been attributed to feed fingers, but the hollowed-out area is some kind of strike through. IMO, there had to be some debris on the die to cause the depression and its orientation suggests it was made at the same time as the scrapes.

    PS I apologize if I misunderstood your post and we are actually in agreement.

    It sounds like you don't understand what feeder finger damage is, assuming I am reading your comment the way you intended.

    As has already been noted above in the thread, feeder finger damage is to the die. A struck-through would impact the individual coin (although there have been cases of apparent stuck debris on the die which caused a similar anomaly in a few coins).

    The feeder finger damage could have been created many thousands of coins before this one was struck.

    @BillJones said:
    My thought is the planchet was damaged before the coin was struck. The dies were not deep enough to flatten it out. The area under Lincoln's beard looks like a lamination.

    I like both your thoughts. However, IMO this is not a one-time event. The streaks are the from the fingers. The hollowed-out chunky area will be on more than one coin IF WHAT I POSTED IS CORRECT. You cannot have two similar laminations with coins in the same relative die state.

    A "hollowed-out" area on the coin would be raised on the die. How could a raised area occur as an error on a die during striking? 🤔

    (A planchet flaw is a separate issue).

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 36,029 ✭✭✭✭✭

    it's not a lamination. as a zincoln, any peeling would expose the white zinc underneath

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  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:
    it's not a lamination. as a zincoln, any peeling would expose the white zinc underneath

    Not if the lamination mark were there before the piece was coated with copper.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 36,029 ✭✭✭✭✭

    true

    but the the op said he has 2

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  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I can't see that mark below Lincoln's beard coming from the die. Remember that it has to be raised on the die, or it's a struck through if it was not on the planchet before striking. It's got the look of a flaw in the zinc before the coating.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 36,029 ✭✭✭✭✭

    it's a strike through

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  • SaamSaam Posts: 606 ✭✭✭✭

    I appreciate all the comments and agree with Mr. Weinberg that feeder fingers damaged the die. These are pics of the second coin I have with the same "markings" but it is slightly different than the first. I actually got these from the Bay years ago and just happened to run across them again. (sorry for the poor pics)


  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,767 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It will help to compare them side by side.



    Looking at them both it seems there is a difference between the anomaly by the date between them.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 36,029 ✭✭✭✭✭

    yea, the "grease" is "grease" and has other stuff in it like teeny flecks of metal

    i've wiped some off of fresh, original bw rolled small dollars. since it is not a solid it changes shape. seen it many times

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  • lilolmelilolme Posts: 2,859 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is a previous thread I did on a $1 1902 S with a struck through on the reverse about 4 to 5 o/c adjacent to the R in dollar. I found 7 of them (4 in the thread and 3 in HA links) with various degrees of the defect. Down in the thread Lance enlarged 3 of them.

    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1074381/detached-planchet-lamination-or-strike-through

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  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 10,164 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Could call it a "Goiter" Lincoln.

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  • Morgan WhiteMorgan White Posts: 9,491 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BLUEJAYWAY said:
    Could call it a "Goiter" Lincoln.

  • SaamSaam Posts: 606 ✭✭✭✭

    If this coin was yours, where could you send it to be graded so the error and/or die damage would be noted on the slab? Not sure PCGS will certify it as an error but I think it is worthy of being certified.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 14,981 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Saam said:

    If this coin was yours, where could you send it to be graded so the error and/or die damage would be noted on the slab? Not sure PCGS will certify it as an error but I think it is worthy of being certified.

    I wouldn’t try to submit it anywhere, as I believe that the cost would exceed the value of the coin.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 36,029 ✭✭✭✭✭

    it is cost prohibitive to slab it and think it is possible to sell it and recoup the costs

    pcgs would likely find it minor. i think ngc error service would do it

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  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 36,890 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @4Redisin said:

    @FredWeinberg said:
    “In my opinion’

    Your reputation should be the final word but this time I don't agree. I have seen a similar Lincoln coin probably with a different date - which I don't remember. If a coin is damaged by the Mint when it is made, I believe it should be classified as a Mint Error. I understand that the streaks have been attributed to feed fingers, but the hollowed-out area is some kind of strike through. IMO, there had to be some debris on the die to cause the depression and its orientation suggests it was made at the same time as the scrapes.

    PS I apologize if I misunderstood your post and we are actually in agreement.

    Fred was saying it isn't worth submitting not that it wasn't a strike through

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.

  • pcgsregistrycollectorpcgsregistrycollector Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:
    it is cost prohibitive to slab it and think it is possible to sell it and recoup the costs

    pcgs would likely find it minor. i think ngc error service would do it

    Wouldn't be worth it. Keep the coin raw.

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