When is ANA 's WFOM coming again to California? 11 years since last!
krueger
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Last trip was in 2016 in Anaheim. No slot open til 2027 (unselected yet). if that happens it will be 11 years since.
only one the smaller Spring show- West of the Rockies- (phoenix 2023) since 2016.
California has the most ANA members. Are we being discriminated against, disrespected?
California Had the WFOM in 1995, 2005,2009, 2016. Seems we are overdue for another visit. How about it ANA?
Anaheim convention center is across the street from Disneyland which is expanding.
Many Many Hotels and eateries all around. Few miles down the road from. MLB Angel Stadium.
confuence of major LA freeways too.
Lots of walking tourists and a safe area .
Our host PCGS is large in California and a short distance from site.
Can we ask our host to use its influence?
Any Californios agree with me?
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Some things in numismatics are a win-win.
Being on the ANA convention site selection committee is not one of them.
Not a Californian, but if it ain't broke, don't break it 😉.
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I would absolutely love it but I don't think it will be happening anytime soon. People have complaints or concerns about taxes and safety, rightly or wrongly, a long distance from the east coast, and a faltering LB show. I would bet against it.
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The 2016 ANA was not a good show.
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I do hear Dealers complain on high cost of Long Beach tables. and yes show is getting a bit thinner weaker. attending since yes 1964!!
many dealers I knew. are not coming anymore. inflations caused costs are up.
I am not sure my ANA membership is worth it anymore all I get is a magazine, What else do I receive?
AT least. PCGS At the Long Beach show As a Registry member I get free early bird entry every day. plus 8 free regular gradings per year. Submitals at the show., and public Friday submittals when offered, plus pastries on entering.
What a great deal!
Anaheim or San Diego would be ideal locations. Weather is great most of the time and both are major tourist destinations with airports and there is a perception of safety (whether rightly or wrongly). Of course I’m biased living in Southern California.
There was a lot of criticism about turnout and venue at Anaheim. A lot of East Coasters skipped it. ANA is such a big show that a lot of venues don’t work. Boston was in two rooms which was ridiculous.
Rosemont is a fine venue with a big space that is relatively central for almost all of the country. I would keep it there permanently.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
I may be incorrect and someone will correct me if so, but I have been told that the ANA works with a host coin club for these shows. So if you want a WFOM show I think you need for a local club to sponsor and work with the ANA.
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Yes, but that's not a problem for any location in the country. Threads like this pop up like clockwork, pretty much once per year. Everyone has their favorite location, and, of course, Californians prefer California.
The issue comes down to the economics of hosting an ANA show. VERY few nice venues, in good locations, are willing to to host the show due to the fact that we are not big spenders and cannot meet food, beverage and room guarantees, in addition to renting the convention space.
This is why places like NYC, Philly, Chicago, Vegas, or most other popular convention towns are not on the horizon. In addition to tax issues.
So Rosemont is ideal, due to the fact that it isn't Chicago, and yet has easy access to the airport, food, hotels, etc. Orlando would be great, but they don't want to compete with FUN.
California is great, but it's expensive and difficult to get to from the east. And, it has LB. So there is no compelling reason. Which is why the last show sucked, and why it would be a hard sell to get the ANA to go back. Just wait and see how great OKC is going to be next year (not!) before lobbying for locations that are not easy or cost effective for most people.
Rosemont and Pittsburgh seem to be working well.
I’ve come to really appreciate how easy it is to get to Rosemont. I do wish the Pittsburgh airport had more connectivity but I like how walkable downtown is and it’s relatively affordable.
I go to Anaheim every year for a work-related convention - it’s a huge hassle. John Wayne airport has limited service. It’s expensive. I’d be very hesitant to attend a coin show there.
@NJCoin, what is wrong with Oklahoma City? The location for the WFoM 2025 is in a new (2021) multipurpose building, which is very nice and easy on and off the I-40. There are plenty of hotels and restaurants downtown.
https://okcconventioncenter.com/
Is it because it is not on the coast? I feel that the location should rotate between the East Coast, Midwest, and West Coast. The last time it was even close to OKC was in Denver and Dallas before that. Come on over and give it a chance before you slam it with negativity.
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I will not be going to OKC specifically because it's OKC despite never having been there. I'm sure the city is lovely and all but it's an enormous hassle to get to and (judging by weather reports) is not pleasant in August. No thanks.
I like Pittsburgh a lot but will not be going there for a coin show again because of the travel. FUN was spectacular...and I might make the effort once every 5-10 years.
12 hour travel days are miserable and, as much as I like coins and seeing my friends, it's just not worth it when there are several other opportunities throughout the year, every year.
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Pittsburgh was great. Better than I expected. It was cleaner and safer than I remember.
I got chased by a guy on Carson St. with an ankle monitor holding a 2x4 in my college days. So the bar was set pretty low.
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I liked Denver, wish it could return there.
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I prefer middle of the country - but it needs to be in a city with better airport connectivity. Rosemont/Chicago, Dallas, Denver, Minneapolis and Conroe/Houston are all preferable.
I went to OKC once for a college visit at OU when my kid was looking at schools. It's lovely, but it's truly in the middle of nowhere. Expensive air service with not a ton of direct flights. Not exactly a hot spot with lots of things to do in the middle of summer.
Don't take my word for it; just wait and see. I stuck my neck out a year ahead of time. Attendance will be a fraction of what they get this year in Rosemont, after which they won't go back anytime soon.
Rotating the show around the country to appease one constituency or another, at the cost of attendance, will eventually kill the show. FUN does not have such a problem, and that show, especially the winter one, just gets better and better every year while the WFOM waxes and wanes depending on where it is held.
80+ year old guys don’t like multiple layovers at airports trying to get lost in the middle of the country. Here’s a hint ANA: don’t piss off the nursing home clientele and pick normal cities.
The problem with shows out west is the travel distance. I understand that it doesn't make sense, that having a show on the east coast is the same problem, but a larger percentage of the overall American population lives closer to those show sites than to California.
Like it or not, if you drew a line down the middle of America, approximately 80% of the overall population lives to the east, 20% to the west. The bulk of the country can drive to a Pittsburgh show.
I was present when ANA leadership was asked about this a couple years ago and they said not to expect it to come to California any time in the near future. The economics just don't support it.
I'm in California and I can't really argue against it. There are other states in the western US with a more favorable sales/coin taxes and cheaper hotels/event space that even I might prefer.
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Over on the sports card side this issue also exists for the National,sports cards largest show of the year. That show primarily rotates between Cleveland and the Chicago area each year. And the west coast collectors echo the same sentiment as the west coast coin crowd.
Probably never. Travel as discussed above and Sales tax...
https://www.cdtfa.ca.gov/lawguides/vol1/sutr/1599.html
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
There was a show in OKC in April. In the suburbs, not downtown, so I can't talk to the WFoM location.
It was a really nice show. PCGS, NGC, ANACS, and CAC all attended. The US Mint brought their booth.
There were even several YouTuber's present - not the nutso ones, the really knowledgable, nice people - the ones who are bringing new participants into our hobby.
They didn't quite sell enough tables to fill the room, so they setup with extra tables for dealers and wide aisles - wide enough that two scooters could pass while people were sitting and talking to dealers.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
What show was that? There was a show last month in Tulsa with the U.S. Mint, ANACS, CACG, and NGC; PCGS was not there.
This! I was there. At times, I felt like I was the only one. Crickets
Kalifornia may have the "most of" a lot of things, but to many, many coin collectors who usually attend shows, it doesn't have great appeal
Besides safety issues, real or imagined, taxes is the lack of attendance for
California. The bigger issue is most likely the ANA itself. A small club that can't promise
big spenders on restaurants and other peripheral activities. Amway, Mary Kay
service organizations such as Civitan, national car dealer assoc. all promise
a much larger attendance. Most large cities don't even return the ANA's call.
Collectors should be HAPPY that Rosemont and Pittsburg allow us to have a
get together. Rosemont is excellent. Lots of hotel rooms and reasonable dinning.
I'm at the show for coins, not food. Safety is never an issue unless you're forgetful.
Rosemont is right at the doorstep of Chicago's O'Hare Airport.
That said, LA International Airport will soon have a monorail linking it to car rental lots. From there, you could literally get a shuttle to any airport hotel. I work in this area. There are too many hotels to count here. That would work.
I think there is still a sales tax exemption for businesses that are here for under a certain number of days per year. At the Los Angeles ANA in 2009, I saw one East Coast Dealer doing business not charging sales tax.
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There is no number of days exemption for sales tax. The certain number if days per year regards nexus, which relates to another set of undesirable issues dealing in CA.
Some dealers perhaps do not collect sales tax at their peril. Some people build it into their price. For sales over $2000, the entire sale is sales tax exempt. And some sales are sales tax exempt because the buyer has given the dealer their sales tax ID; often it is on file from previous dealings.
OKC Convention Center is in a good location. There are lots of high-end steakhouses, a blues club in Bricktown, and good hotels (Omni, Renaissance, Marriott, etc.), and parks and botanical gardens. It's absolutely worth a visit if you are on the fence.
That said, NJCoin is right that the spotty level of non-stop air service from big coastal cities, plus the general perception of OK will maul attendance. Dallas would be an ideal ANA location if you could convince Heritage to have live auctions. IMHO, OKC is a better location than Pittsburgh, but both leave something to be desired.
Rosemont is dull, but easy to get in and out for a one day trip. The real shame is that neither Long Beach nor Baltimore will consolidate to fewer and bigger shows to justify their survival, especially since Long Beach is the only big show west of the Rockies.
I didn't stop, but there was somebody with a PCGS banner. I just assumed they had a minor presence. Across the aisle and one over from CAC.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I certainly would like it, being in San Diego. But the dealer nexus is the problem. If an out of state dealer does business a certain number of days in the year (10, I think), they have to collect California sales tax, and send in annual returns, for all sales to California. That is really one of the things that killed Long Beach. If a dealer was to only do the ANA in a certain year in California (under a week), they'd be good. Same for a dealer who would only do Thu-Sat at the three Long Beach shows (9 days total). Since CU owns the Long Beach show, with this issue, they might not be the natural advocate for an ANA here. But you just never know.
I liked the Anaheim ANA. It was fun. The one over by Staples Center, though, was dead. Could have rolled bowling balls down the aisles all day on the Friday of that show. Rosemont has proven to be a good location.
The ANA show in 2009 was almost a ghost town. I have been to every ANA show since 1970. The 2009 show was the worst. Also, at the 1975 ANA show, which was very close to the airport, my suitcase was stolen 5 minutes after I got to the hotel! California sucks!
The last time the ANA was in Washington State was 1990 in Seattle. It just doesn't make economic sense to return there. Portland, Oregon was reasonably successful as a spring show - so maybe we'll see one of those again in the future.
Edit to add there is no sales tax in Oregon.
Pacific Northwest Numismatic Association
With Portlands history the last 4 years,
I would not attend a show there.
Detroit hasn't had an ANA show since 1994. 30 years and counting ... and its probably going to be a long count.
Same comments for Detroit as Portland. Crime and gangs. No thanks
Downtown Detroit, where the convention would probably be held, is quite safe. Ask the NFL how their draft went and the NCAA how their Sweet 16 went earlier this year.
Also, ask all those people who come to downtown Detroit to attend, Lions, Tigers, Red Wings and Piston games.
I was just in Portland for vacation 2 weeks ago. I stayed right downtown. The entire city was absolutely gorgeous, clean, and safe with an awesome vibe. I saw maybe 10-15 homeless people total and not in any of the nice areas. Not bad for right downtown, I thought. No needles, no crime, no sirens, just a gorgeous City that was very welcoming with great food and killer coffee. I walked everywhere with my wife and 10-year-old daughter. Went to a lantern festival in a park with thousands of people; like everywhere else, fun and clean. Other than San Diego, probably my favorite zoo I've ever been to.
ANA will never go there and I'm sure that plenty of people here won't go there regardless, and there have definitely been some problems over the last few years. But don't believe that just because some bad things happen somewhere and people with an agenda highlight those bad things that a place is all bad. To vilify entire cities and regions because they're not perfect is a disappointing stance to take.
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From the zoo:
From Pittock Mansion:
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@291fifth Will the city of Detroit provide the same police presence and protection for the ANA as they did for the events you mentioned.
@lermish I can only speak to the facts as I see them on the 4 major news networks.
It's more like 60% that are East of the Mississippi
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/eastern-states
That's why Chicago makes sense.
I'm not saying that they're not truthful in their reporting. However those aren't the only facts... they're the only newsworthy facts that will draw eyeballs and sell commercials.
I can't remember the last national news story telling how everything is going great, in any context about almost any subject.
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For a major Coin Convention ... you can be sure they will. They want convention business and are well prepared to provide strong police presence.
I saw maybe 10 or 15 homeless people 😂 so was it 10 or 15 or 35?
Just because some people did some things… that’s some serious mediocracy to be putting an American flag behind and calling it Gin…
There were very few. I wasn't exactly keeping a tally because I was too busy having a great time in a great city.
My home of the brave comment was more towards the people who are terrified to go into any city because of things that they hear on news reports. But I promise you there's mediocrity and worse in every single hamlet, town, city, and village in the country.
Either way, if some can hide behind the flag and claim that some coastal or iron belt cities are rotten and not the real America, I intend to do the same in reverse. Except without bashing all of the other places in the country I have negative preconceived notions about but have never visited.
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Speaking of OKC, as an East Coaster, I'm sure I'll be flying through DFW since I always fly American. How far is it from the OKC airport to the location of next year's Convention and what are the best (and cheapest) transportation options. Thanks.
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Have fun with that.
It's an easy 3h drive. Pull out of the Rental Car Center, turn right, and follow the signs through the airport (toll) to 114/121 (toll) and then I35E Northbound. 21 miles North you hit Oklahoma. 144 miles after that you take the exit for I40 and one or two exits to the convention center.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/xqPc1ARVbWiMubJ3A
What you will find in Oklahoma is the speed limit signs saying "no tolerance" and the locals will drive the limit for the first few miles past the casino where the cops have been known to hang out. The next forty miles or so you will think you are at the brickyard. I've had Texas-plated cars blow past me as if I'm standing still - and I'm doing 92 keeping up with the traffic.
It really is a fast trip - in April, I went to the show in Moore, OK (a south suburb of OKC). I live between Dallas and Denton. The 169 miles took 2h19m for an average of just under 73mph. Coming back the 151 miles took 2h13m - or 68.1 mph (I had to divert to meet the new cat at Denton Animal Services))
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
14 to 18 minute drive.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=oklahoma+city+convention+center+address&t=h_&iaxm=directions&end=Oklahoma+City+Convention+Center,+100+Mick+Cornett+Drive,+Oklahoma+City,+OK+73109,+United+States&transport=automobile&start=what:Will%20Rogers%20World%20Airport,where:7100%20Terminal%20Dr%2C%20Unit%20937%2C%20Oklahoma%20City%2C%20OK%2073159%2C%20United%20States
I would prefer my own vehicle to get around. But there is a "trolley" that runs downtown.
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As of 10/1/21, Ohio is no longer taxing precious metals (bullion that is at least . 99 pure) or on coins that are made from at least 50% precious metals.
There are good locations all around the country but the various organizations controlling site selection are apparently pleased with where the shows are currently held, so why move them?? It's weird, when locations make a pitch for an event to be held in their locale they typically tout the amenities, the reasons why events should be held. Our Hobby seems to be different, when a location is mentioned the cry from the masses tends to be negative, reasons why it shouldn't be held.
A club or organization has to invite the ANA to hold a show in their city. In the convention world our shows are small and very few cities want our shows.