@Rexford said:
I liked Denver, wish it could return there.
Me too, but it ain’t gonna happen. Once you get out of the Cheyenne-Pueblo axis it is several hundreds of miles of driving to any population centers .
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@Elcontador said:
Rosemont is right at the doorstep of Chicago's O'Hare Airport.
I think there is still a sales tax exemption for businesses that are here for under a certain number of days per year. At the Los Angeles ANA in 2009, I saw one East Coast Dealer doing business not charging sales tax.
There is no number of days exemption for sales tax. The certain number if days per year regards nexus, which relates to another set of undesirable issues dealing in CA.
Some dealers perhaps do not collect sales tax at their peril. Some people build it into their price. For sales over $2000, the entire sale is sales tax exempt. And some sales are sales tax exempt because the buyer has given the dealer their sales tax ID; often it is on file from previous dealings.
Thanks. Nexus involves a requirement to file CA sales tax returns at least annually, possibly more frequently. I think there used to be a threshold sales amount under which CA would not go after vendors. Other states are like that.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
I remembered the Anaheim show wasn't well attended but I remember that the San Francisco ANA show some time ago was rockin' and rolling. That was a great location and it was a great show for dealer and collectors. I was coming from the east coast for that trip and while it was cross country, it was worth it. I wouldn't mind SF, Denver, Chicago, Nashville or Pittsburgh for locations for the show.
@EastonCollection:
SF was a great show! Easy one for me as well as I live less than 30 minutes away. Went home after the day’s events & just drove back the next day.
Unfortunately, though, I have to agree with many of the posters about the logistical & expense difficulties with future CA shows on the ANA level. While Rosemont & Pittsburgh aren’t great locations for me, I understand why they work for so many, especially Rosemont.
But I can dream…..
@ElmerFusterpuck said:
Not surprised parts of this thread turned into the usual tired political diatribes on selected cities by some of the usual suspects.
Think it's actually safer to venture into said cities (I've actually been to some of them) then it is to venture into the forum town square here.
This political sh*t is getting old.
I failed to see the political posts you speak of. Since when is talking about how safe a city is or is not, political. I never read why a place is unsafe only that statistically it is.
Is California dying as a coin show location? Seems so to me.
East coast folks don't want to come to california because of inflationary cost rises. Perceived homeless and crime.
Which is mostly not everywhere here.
Same issues for us californias going east. 4 ,5 nights hotels pushing $300 per night if you want to be close.
Last time I was at the ANA in chicago my car cost me $500 plus. Airfare way up too. I spend more going on the trip then I spend there on coins! So I've been skipping the ANA show for a number of years now. I have addended a couple of dozen in the past. The extra $3K can buy alot of coins at auction bidding from home. Costs vs success way up . Not to mention the big city crime back east
In Pittsburg I had to RUN away from a mugger chasing me. In Philly street gangs hanging on corners were threatening a few of us in a cab at night coming back from dinner. You don't hear of such things from folks much.
Times are a changing, and as a good baseball player would do we must adjust to the changing coin landscape.
@krueger said:
Is California dying as a coin show location? Seems so to me.
East coast folks don't want to come to california because of inflationary cost rises. Perceived homeless and crime.
Which is mostly not everywhere here.
Same issues for us californias going east. 4 ,5 nights hotels pushing $300 per night if you want to be close.
Last time I was at the ANA in chicago my car cost me $500 plus. Airfare way up too. I spend more going on the trip then I spend there on coins! So I've been skipping the ANA show for a number of years now. I have addended a couple of dozen in the past. The extra $3K can buy alot of coins at auction bidding from home. Costs vs success way up . Not to mention the big city crime back east
I live on the east coast and happy to attend the show in California. I dont look it as the costs of attending the show I can't spend on coins. While that it true, I get more from attending the show like attending very interesting seminars, club meetings, a chance to meet new friends that collect the same series that I do, see existing friends and meet dealers that I don't see very often. At these shows some dealers offer me some coins that I never would be been offered so I consider these intangibles far more important than the cost of attending a show vs lost funds on spending on coins. Just my 2 cents.
@krueger said:
Is California dying as a coin show location? Seems so to me.
East coast folks don't want to come to california because of inflationary cost rises. Perceived homeless and crime.
Which is mostly not everywhere here.
Same issues for us californias going east. 4 ,5 nights hotels pushing $300 per night if you want to be close.
Last time I was at the ANA in chicago my car cost me $500 plus. Airfare way up too. I spend more going on the trip then I spend there on coins! So I've been skipping the ANA show for a number of years now. I have addended a couple of dozen in the past. The extra $3K can buy alot of coins at auction bidding from home. Costs vs success way up . Not to mention the big city crime back east
I live on the east coast and happy to attend the show in California. I dont look it as the costs of attending the show I can't spend on coins. While that it true, I get more from attending the show like attending very interesting seminars, club meetings, a chance to meet new friends that collect the same series that I do, see existing friends and meet dealers that I don't see very often. At these shows some dealers offer me some coins that I never would be been offered so I consider these intangibles far more important than the cost of attending a show vs lost funds on spending on coins. Just my 2 cents.
All excellent points. You are correct insofar as the costs of travel and living life should not be combined with the costs of adding to a collection.
That said, it's not as if we all have to attend every show. Especially if we are not mid to larger dealers. So the decision is not California or Bust. There is Orlando, Baltimore, Schaumburg, etc.
As a result, the ANA has to decide what kind of show it wants to have. If it does not want to have it in a reasonably accessible, reasonably priced location that the maximum number of people are willing to travel to, it can turn the WFOM into a rotating regional show, and have it in Anaheim, Colorado Springs, OKC, Portland, or any other place that a few dozen people have been hankering for.
OTOH, if it wants to keep its place at the top of the pyramid, along with winter FUN, it needs to be in places like Rosemont that people are willing to travel to, and that are willing to host the show, given its spending and attendance profile. To me, by a long shot, the best shows I attended were in Philly, but I totally get why the math does not work for the ANA to return, even if the union situation there has been straightened out (not entirely sure about that, however!).
So I don't complain. I either travel to Rosemont, or Pittsburgh, or wherever, or I don't. Most people do the same. And then the attendance figures tell you all you need to know about what works and what doesn't. Just wait for OKC's numbers to come in next year, and then tell me how much people hate Rosemont and want variety.
To me it's not about variety of location just respect for collectiors in the state with the most ANA members.
Is the ANA a collector organization or a dealer centric organization? Preferring their east of the Mississippi locations.
More East -West show balance would be fairer to its members.
@krueger said:
To me it's not about variety of location just respect for collectiors in the state with the most ANA members.
Is the ANA a collector organization or a dealer centric organization? Preferring their east of the Mississippi locations.
More East -West show balance would be fairer to its members.
With all respect, no, it's not about respect for a single large state, or "fairness." It's about having the biggest, best show possible, as measured by attendance. For the record, perhaps to the consternation of many, it IS a dealer centric organization.
This shouldn't be a shock, since they have the money that is the lifeblood of the hobby. Not a bunch of small collectors. Yes, without a lot of small collectors, the hobby will wither and die. But power and economics are concentrated in the hands of the largest entities. Just like everything else in society.
Low show attendance will translate to low dealer interest, and that will eventually kill the show. Period, end of story. It's not about a $10 admission fee, free with ANA membership. It's about dealer support, sponsorship, table sales, etc.
If they want to kill the show, they'll worry about "fairness" and rotate it around the country, going to any state that will have it that also has members who would like to see it there. Otherwise, they will go wherever they can attract the largest audience, without regard to how people in California, or any other particular state, feel about it.
Really doesn't matter to me one way or the other. I'm a member, and a collector who enjoys large shows.
But I also have a life outside of coin collecting, and there is only so much inconvenience and cost I am willing to tolerate to attend a coin show. Particularly the ANA WFOM, when I have the awesome winter FUN show to look forward to, every single year, in the City Beautiful, in January. It's easy and cheap to get to, lots of food and lodging options at every price point, with a bourse, auction, educational programming, etc. to rival anything the ANA has to offer.
So I just don't need the WFOM, and I'm not alone. If an Anaheim show would attract 2/3 the attendance of Rosemont, is that a tradeoff you think the ANA should make to appease its membership from the state with the most members? If so, maybe run for the board, convince a majority of your peers, and make it happen. Otherwise, the ANA has to do what's best for the ANA as a whole, not what's best for one constituency or another.
This is an interesting discussion because it shows the many different opinions of the collector community. Obviously it would be great for each "region" to have a show in their neighborhood, but factually speaking this kind of show is not just setting up a larger room to accommodate. There are so many things that go into this, and I would suggest that whatever anyone thinks a show like this costs, just assume higher.
NJCoin is quite right with his breakdown. CA shows are not very well attended and frankly are expensive to attend with very little action. I have been to them all in the last 30 years and they felt to me the worst of the bunch, but again that is strictly one persons opinion. OKC is a surprising choice, and I suspect will be a tough outcome from a tough decision for the board at ANA.
I have moved to Las Vegas in the last two years, but as a dealer, I do hope they do not do ANA in California. While I would welcome not taking another redeye to the east coast (21 red eyes last year) I just dont think it will work, and maybe won't work for awhile. I know it doesnt seem fair to the West Coast collectors, but there is a reason for it. Interestingly Las Vegas was strongly voted for in a poll done by the ANA, even with the tax on ALL sales required to be taken. We may see a shift in the dynamic of large national shows going forward. I do think the FUN show is now #1 (and has been for awhile) and will stay as large and as successful as it is. However, I do think many other conventions, including ANA WFOM will maybe look at another approach in the coming years.
New England Rarities...Dealer In Colonial Coinage and Americana
@NewEnglandRarities said:
OKC is a surprising choice, and I suspect will be a tough outcome from a tough decision for the board at ANA.
There have been two surprisingly successful shows in Oklahoma in the past month, OKC (Moore) in April and Tulsa in June. Frankly, it was nice not to see more than the usual Houston gangs.
Maybe the answer to the dilemma is to have super-regional shows.
There is a push to make the Tyler show a bigger deal. Last year it overlapped with ANA WFoM. This year it's the weekend after. They had a poster at Grapevine this weekend showcasing 100 tables (the five-times a year show at Grapevine is just 70 tables) and 51 dealers!
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Comments
Me too, but it ain’t gonna happen. Once you get out of the Cheyenne-Pueblo axis it is several hundreds of miles of driving to any population centers .
Thanks. Nexus involves a requirement to file CA sales tax returns at least annually, possibly more frequently. I think there used to be a threshold sales amount under which CA would not go after vendors. Other states are like that.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I disagree with this. The 2016 show in Anaheim was pretty good, IMO. Maybe you are thinking of the 2009 ANA in Los Angeles which was terrible.
I was also at the 1995 ANA in Anaheim which was a great show as well.
Different POVs I guess.....
jom
I was at the ANA in 2009
Prices were great and a lot to buy 🤓
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Not surprised parts of this thread turned into the usual tired political diatribes on selected cities by some of the usual suspects.
Think it's actually safer to venture into said cities (I've actually been to some of them) then it is to venture into the forum town square here.
This political sh*t is getting old.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
I remembered the Anaheim show wasn't well attended but I remember that the San Francisco ANA show some time ago was rockin' and rolling. That was a great location and it was a great show for dealer and collectors. I was coming from the east coast for that trip and while it was cross country, it was worth it. I wouldn't mind SF, Denver, Chicago, Nashville or Pittsburgh for locations for the show.
@EastonCollection:
SF was a great show! Easy one for me as well as I live less than 30 minutes away. Went home after the day’s events & just drove back the next day.
Unfortunately, though, I have to agree with many of the posters about the logistical & expense difficulties with future CA shows on the ANA level. While Rosemont & Pittsburgh aren’t great locations for me, I understand why they work for so many, especially Rosemont.
But I can dream…..
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
I failed to see the political posts you speak of. Since when is talking about how safe a city is or is not, political. I never read why a place is unsafe only that statistically it is.
Is California dying as a coin show location? Seems so to me.
East coast folks don't want to come to california because of inflationary cost rises. Perceived homeless and crime.
Which is mostly not everywhere here.
Same issues for us californias going east. 4 ,5 nights hotels pushing $300 per night if you want to be close.
Last time I was at the ANA in chicago my car cost me $500 plus. Airfare way up too. I spend more going on the trip then I spend there on coins! So I've been skipping the ANA show for a number of years now. I have addended a couple of dozen in the past. The extra $3K can buy alot of coins at auction bidding from home. Costs vs success way up . Not to mention the big city crime back east
In Pittsburg I had to RUN away from a mugger chasing me. In Philly street gangs hanging on corners were threatening a few of us in a cab at night coming back from dinner. You don't hear of such things from folks much.
Times are a changing, and as a good baseball player would do we must adjust to the changing coin landscape.
I live on the east coast and happy to attend the show in California. I dont look it as the costs of attending the show I can't spend on coins. While that it true, I get more from attending the show like attending very interesting seminars, club meetings, a chance to meet new friends that collect the same series that I do, see existing friends and meet dealers that I don't see very often. At these shows some dealers offer me some coins that I never would be been offered so I consider these intangibles far more important than the cost of attending a show vs lost funds on spending on coins. Just my 2 cents.
All excellent points. You are correct insofar as the costs of travel and living life should not be combined with the costs of adding to a collection.
That said, it's not as if we all have to attend every show. Especially if we are not mid to larger dealers. So the decision is not California or Bust. There is Orlando, Baltimore, Schaumburg, etc.
As a result, the ANA has to decide what kind of show it wants to have. If it does not want to have it in a reasonably accessible, reasonably priced location that the maximum number of people are willing to travel to, it can turn the WFOM into a rotating regional show, and have it in Anaheim, Colorado Springs, OKC, Portland, or any other place that a few dozen people have been hankering for.
OTOH, if it wants to keep its place at the top of the pyramid, along with winter FUN, it needs to be in places like Rosemont that people are willing to travel to, and that are willing to host the show, given its spending and attendance profile. To me, by a long shot, the best shows I attended were in Philly, but I totally get why the math does not work for the ANA to return, even if the union situation there has been straightened out (not entirely sure about that, however!).
So I don't complain. I either travel to Rosemont, or Pittsburgh, or wherever, or I don't. Most people do the same. And then the attendance figures tell you all you need to know about what works and what doesn't. Just wait for OKC's numbers to come in next year, and then tell me how much people hate Rosemont and want variety.
To me it's not about variety of location just respect for collectiors in the state with the most ANA members.
Is the ANA a collector organization or a dealer centric organization? Preferring their east of the Mississippi locations.
More East -West show balance would be fairer to its members.
With all respect, no, it's not about respect for a single large state, or "fairness." It's about having the biggest, best show possible, as measured by attendance. For the record, perhaps to the consternation of many, it IS a dealer centric organization.
This shouldn't be a shock, since they have the money that is the lifeblood of the hobby. Not a bunch of small collectors. Yes, without a lot of small collectors, the hobby will wither and die. But power and economics are concentrated in the hands of the largest entities. Just like everything else in society.
Low show attendance will translate to low dealer interest, and that will eventually kill the show. Period, end of story. It's not about a $10 admission fee, free with ANA membership. It's about dealer support, sponsorship, table sales, etc.
If they want to kill the show, they'll worry about "fairness" and rotate it around the country, going to any state that will have it that also has members who would like to see it there. Otherwise, they will go wherever they can attract the largest audience, without regard to how people in California, or any other particular state, feel about it.
Really doesn't matter to me one way or the other. I'm a member, and a collector who enjoys large shows.
But I also have a life outside of coin collecting, and there is only so much inconvenience and cost I am willing to tolerate to attend a coin show. Particularly the ANA WFOM, when I have the awesome winter FUN show to look forward to, every single year, in the City Beautiful, in January. It's easy and cheap to get to, lots of food and lodging options at every price point, with a bourse, auction, educational programming, etc. to rival anything the ANA has to offer.
So I just don't need the WFOM, and I'm not alone. If an Anaheim show would attract 2/3 the attendance of Rosemont, is that a tradeoff you think the ANA should make to appease its membership from the state with the most members? If so, maybe run for the board, convince a majority of your peers, and make it happen. Otherwise, the ANA has to do what's best for the ANA as a whole, not what's best for one constituency or another.
This is an interesting discussion because it shows the many different opinions of the collector community. Obviously it would be great for each "region" to have a show in their neighborhood, but factually speaking this kind of show is not just setting up a larger room to accommodate. There are so many things that go into this, and I would suggest that whatever anyone thinks a show like this costs, just assume higher.
NJCoin is quite right with his breakdown. CA shows are not very well attended and frankly are expensive to attend with very little action. I have been to them all in the last 30 years and they felt to me the worst of the bunch, but again that is strictly one persons opinion. OKC is a surprising choice, and I suspect will be a tough outcome from a tough decision for the board at ANA.
I have moved to Las Vegas in the last two years, but as a dealer, I do hope they do not do ANA in California. While I would welcome not taking another redeye to the east coast (21 red eyes last year) I just dont think it will work, and maybe won't work for awhile. I know it doesnt seem fair to the West Coast collectors, but there is a reason for it. Interestingly Las Vegas was strongly voted for in a poll done by the ANA, even with the tax on ALL sales required to be taken. We may see a shift in the dynamic of large national shows going forward. I do think the FUN show is now #1 (and has been for awhile) and will stay as large and as successful as it is. However, I do think many other conventions, including ANA WFOM will maybe look at another approach in the coming years.
I have been to every ANA since 1970 and will go to the show no matter where it is held, but I really hope that is never in California again.
There have been two surprisingly successful shows in Oklahoma in the past month, OKC (Moore) in April and Tulsa in June. Frankly, it was nice not to see more than the usual Houston gangs.
Maybe the answer to the dilemma is to have super-regional shows.
There is a push to make the Tyler show a bigger deal. Last year it overlapped with ANA WFoM. This year it's the weekend after. They had a poster at Grapevine this weekend showcasing 100 tables (the five-times a year show at Grapevine is just 70 tables) and 51 dealers!
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")